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Battle takes place over New Delhi

Surfer drains the sunlight from his body. Or just scrambles his genetics so his powers don't work anymore. Or blasts a hole the size of a basketball arena through his body.

Surfer should win this, or at best this is a stalemate for Zod.

Zod punches him so hard it separates Norrin from his board.

Zod has no way to hurt Surfer.

While Surfer has multiple ways to hurt Zod, or just strip him of his powers. Or any number of things.

Well, to be fair we dont know if he can strip powers or not

He altered Johnny's genetics just by being in close contact with him. He could turn Zod human.

That's a bit of a no-limit. Johnny was a human who gained powers from being exposed to "cosmic energy" and the Silver Surfer is powered himself with "cosmic energy", there's a direct connection there. Zod's an alien whose genetic makeup gives him powers while under yellow solar radiation.

Surfer also didn't strip Johnny of his powers, he altered them so Johnny could switch or take on more powers. It was actually an improvement more-so than a hindrance considering the final fight.

What Rob said. Anything else is pure stupidity.

"Cosmic Energy" and "The Power Cosmic" aren't the same thing. They got their powers from radiation altering their genes, while Surfer was given his by a space cloud.

And my point was that he seemed to do that to Johnny just by being in such close proximity to him. If he made it a point to actually try and effect Zod with his powers in such a way, Zod has no defense against it.

IIRC, "cosmic energy" was mentioned by Reed as the way he tracked the Norrin's movements through the cosmos. It's fairly clear that was the connection the film was going for, Johnny was changed by cosmic energy and just being touched by Norrin altered his powers. Johnny then stabilized his powers by touching the board, the source of Norrin's cosmic energy.

Again, there's no reason to believe Norrin could affect Zod's powers just because he had an altering affect on Johnny's.

edit: I looked in IMDB and Wiki, both state that the cosmic energy that gave the F4 powers is the same as the energy Norrin uses/puts out. There's a connection.

Surfer was never stated to have the power cosmic.Originally posted by KingD19
"Cosmic Energy" and "The Power Cosmic" aren't the same thing. They got their powers from radiation altering their genes, while Surfer was given his by a space cloud.

And my point was that he seemed to do that to Johnny just by being in such close proximity to him. If he made it a point to actually try and effect Zod with his powers in such a way, Zod has no defense against it.

Yeah, this isn't the comic book. Look how stupid Galactus turned out to be.

Zod bashes Wimper's head in with the board.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Zod bashes Wimper's head in with the board.

Pretty much this.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Surfer should win this, or at best this is a stalemate for Zod.

Oh god, so if your a galactis fanboy, that makes you a silver surfer fan boy.

Didn't Doom have to find a specific way to get Surfer off his board? It's not just about brute force.

Doom figured out a way to control the board, reed figured out a way to get him off. But at that point they had no way to go head to head with him.

It's a no limits fallacy to say "well the ff4 only got him off with tech, nothing else will work."

Reed used a "tachyon pulse".

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Doom figured out a way to control the board, reed figured out a way to get him off. But at that point they had no way to go head to head with him.

It's a no limits fallacy to say "well the ff4 only got him off with tech, nothing else will work."

Zod doesn't have that tech. Doesn't even have prep time to make that tech. So unless otherwise proven, Zod has no way to get surfer off his board.

If Using a no limits fallacy...sure

Sorry, but the only person using a fallacy here is you. There was nothing every stated that there are multiple ways to get him off his board. Nothing even suggesting of other ways, let alone brute force. Nothing of the like was even implied. Yet you're saying well since it wasn't shown that brute force wouldn't work, well then it will work. That is fallacy 101. It's the opposite actually. Reed and Doom are exponentially smarter than Zod, and even AFTER prep, that is what they came up with. Zod would never be able to make such a deduction. Let's say for a second brute force doesn't work, well then, Zod is essentially F'd. He has zero way of getting him off the board and would be curb'd.

Nah

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
If Using a no limits fallacy...sure

It's not a no limits fallacy. You're using that term incorrectly.

I did not say only the F4 could take him off his board. But as seen, brute force alone would not take him off his board (otherwise Doom and Reed would not have needed to go through all the science mumbo jumbo of figuring out a different way) and Zod only has brute force here. Surfer also mentioned that he has never been separated from his board.

We're going by movie feats here. Zod has no technological feats that I know of, and there were no brute force feats that took Surfer off his board.

So how exactly do you suggest Zod can take Surfer off his board.

So because the only way showed was with tech, that covers say Dr. mAnhatten getting him off?

You can't blanket the universe with one showing.

It's like saying there is only one way to skin a cat.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So because the only way showed was with tech, that covers say Dr. mAnhatten getting him off?

You can't blanket the universe with one showing.

It's like saying there is only one way to skin a cat.

Again, what suggestion have you of Zod taking him off his board?

Punching him in super speed.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Punching him in super speed.

Ok. Then it falls to you to prove that punching Surfer at super speed is enough to knock him off his board.

TI does have a point.

Just because the FF don't have the physical power to get Surfer off the board, doesn't necessarily mean the power of a Kryptonian couldn't do it.

On the other hand it did seem kind of unlikely that anything beyond Skyfather level would be doing it.

So I would suggest comparing them on basis of feats instead of speculating on that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
TI does have a point.

Just because the FF don't have the physical power to get Surfer off the board, doesn't necessarily mean the power of a Kryptonian couldn't do it.

On the other hand it did seem kind of unlikely that anything beyond Skyfather level would be doing it.

So I would suggest comparing them on basis of feats instead of speculating on that.

To be fair, Surfer travels around in the vacuum of space without falling off his board. Can survive leaving and entering earth's atmosphere without falling off his board. Survived attacks from the F4 without falling off his board. Has mentioned that he has never been separated from his board (or am I confusing this with the cartoon?). Doom and Reed, 2 of the greatest minds on Earth, decided on a very specific way to get Surfer off his board. Strength-wise, Thing is also pretty close to Kryptonians, so if it was as easy as punching him off the board Thing would have done so.


So if we're going with the assumption that a Kryptonian can punch him off his board, someone needs to put together a far better argument than simply saying "I think a kryptonian is fast and strong enough to punch him off his board".

How is Thing close to the knights in strength?

Zod doesn't really have any combat superspeed, it's all flight speed and Surfer actually flies far faster than Zod could ever hope to. so the Zod does this at superspeed isn't a good argument. plus wasn't Surfer able to phase, that would make it rather hard for Zod to remove Surfer from his board via strength based attacks.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How is Thing close to the knights in strength?

Supporting the Eye of London off the ground

With help. Nothing like the oil rig.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Zod doesn't really have any combat superspeed, it's all flight speed and Surfer actually flies far faster than Zod could ever hope to. so the Zod does this at superspeed isn't a good argument. plus wasn't Surfer able to phase, that would make it rather hard for Zod to remove Surfer from his board via strength based attacks.

But why can we say people Surfer can do things he never showed. Meaning phasing from physical attacks? He phased through inanimate buildings and objects. He was never shown to phase through people or punches.

I don't understand, Are you saying that Surfer doesn't have the ability to phase through organic matter?

Lol so physical matter is different between people and objects now? If he can phase through buildings and even Sues force field, he can phase through Zod.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I don't understand, Are you saying that Surfer doesn't have the ability to phase through organic matter?

He prolly does, but it just does not seem fair to take feats not actually shown but then say "tachyon pulse is the end all be all way."

Well, I'm not saying that the pulse is the only way to remove him, my point was just that using physical attacks against someone who can phase doesn't sound like a winning tactic.

I see your point, it prolly isn't but I just think it's only fair.

Imp said that based on the rules, even if the green lantern who can make almost anything could only represent what he has been shown to create on screen.

I really don't care either way, my mos crush has faded. But I still think Zod is more powerful then people give him credit for.

But Surfer was shown to phase in order to avoid impacts, it being a fist rather than a building or bus shouldn't matter. the concept is the same. it's not like I'm arguing that Surfer would use his phasing ability to remove Zod's brain or other internal organs.

Cool

Originally posted by FrothByte
To be fair, Surfer travels around in the vacuum of space without falling off his board. Can survive leaving and entering earth's atmosphere without falling off his board.


That's true. And a good argument against physical attacks working.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Well, I'm not saying that the pulse is the only way to remove him, my point was just that using physical attacks against someone who can phase doesn't sound like a winning tactic.

Also true.

Physical attacks do seem like a very unlikely way of defeating him.

The flying at super speed and punching him thing only really works if Surfer stands there and lets it happen, as opposed to using his own immense flight speed and agility to avoid it, or going intangible, or using his mountain shattering energy blasts to defend himself etc. And that is after not only making the assumption that pure physical force can separate him from his board, but that Zod can deliver the required amount of force. What proof do we even have that Zod can resist getting sucked into Surfer's board, like some of the missiles the army shot at him?

Zod is very powerful, but SS has versatility on his side.

Zod has heat vision in addition to his super strength and supes did fly through a mountain with little trouble, SS mountaon shattering may not be an endgame hrre.

Surfer wins.

Yep. We saw how well heat worked against Surfer when the Human Torch gave it a shot.

I'm pretty sure throwing any form of energy at him save that specifically generated tachyon pulse would just end up with it absorbed or turned back on Zod. Or simply phased through. Remember he wasn't even slowed down by Sue's forcefield. A forcefield powerful enough to contain Johnny's nova flame.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Zod has heat vision in addition to his super strength and supes did fly through a mountain with little trouble, SS mountaon shattering may not be an endgame hrre.

Well, as KingD19 pointed out, even the Torch's heat couldn't hurt SS, and neither did it do any visible damage to Doom while wielding the Surfer's powers (all it did was damage his wrist controller thing). So I doubt heat vision will help him much here.

I don't think his energy blasts will be a game ender here either (well, unless he tries a Galactus buster, which is unlikely). The point I was making is that the whole flying at Surfer and punching him is a lot easier said than done, considering Zod would have to deal with those blasts while trying to get close enough. Even if they don't seriously harm him, they will most likely still knock him on his ass. And again, that is making the assumption that he can be punched off his board, and that Zod is actually strong enough to do it.

Thinking about it though... how on Earth did Johnny actually manage to damage that wrist machine when the board power seemingly prevented him from even making Doom's cape singe?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh god, so if your a galactis fanboy, that makes you a silver surfer fan boy.

I actually had a thought. Even if Zod could knock the Surfer off his board, which is still a giant IF, it shouldn't make a difference. The tachyon pulse didn't simply blast Surfer off his board. It briefly disrupted his connection to it, so he actually dropped right through the thing. Also, after he kills Galactus and is floating in space, he is separated from his board, which then starts to fly back to him. So unless Zod can actually sever Surfer's connection to the board, hitting him really hard likely won't help that much.

lolfiction

Is it possible to kill SS while he's still connected?

I would assume so, seeing as there was nothing in the film to suggest he was totally immortal. But what it would require is anyone's guess, considering he somehow managed to survive killing the being who actually gave him his powers. To me it was a bit dumb, but that's how the movie went.

As I stated before, I just don't think Zod has what it takes to beat Surfer. As Vault points out, even if he separates him from the board... that isn't a end game for Surfer. He'll just recall it.

Couldn't surfer just absorb Zod into his board like he did the missile?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
As I stated before, I just don't think Zod has what it takes to beat Surfer. As Vault points out, even if he separates him from the board... that isn't a end game for Surfer. He'll just recall it.

And he can call it back fast enough while being speed blitzed? If he did get knocked off it was prolly a hard hit, he's just going to what. Recover and Zods going to lay off while he gets back on?

No, he'll probably just go intangible till the board returns. He's not helpless without the board you know. Only when he's completely disconnected to it.

Proof Zod is fast enough to speed blitz Surfer? Who by feats is far faster than Zod in both flight and reaction time.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
And he can call it back fast enough while being speed blitzed? If he did get knocked off it was prolly a hard hit, he's just going to what. Recover and Zods going to lay off while he gets back on?

Typically I'd agree with you that somebody could press their advantage. However, Zod has a storied history of doing just that... Hitting somebody and than pontificating and going into a monologue. So yes, that's exactly what he might do if he happens to be able to knock him off his board.

Originally posted by KingD19
Proof Zod is fast enough to speed blitz Surfer? Who by feats is far faster than Zod in both flight and reaction time.

First you have to prove Surfer has faster combat speed feats then Zod. Is this how we really going to debate these days with the board coming to a close


"PROVE THIS PROVE THAT"

I mean come on, how about a simple discussion?

Zod's a bred warrior, trained his entire life to master his senses. Where did Norrin train; was it a farm?

Originally posted by Robtard
Zod's a bred warrior, trained his entire life to master his senses. Where did Norrin train; was it a farm?

Yeah well, he lost to a scientist and a farm boy. Just saying...

Well, Surfer is fast enough to cover interstellar distances, and was dodging and back handing missiles out of the way when fighting the army. Also, I don't understand how some people can just assume that Zod punching Surfer off his board is fact, when there isn't actually any evidence to support this either way, but won't acknowledge that the Surfer could potentially mess with Zod's genetics, because he has only affected the FF before. Remember, he didn't just mess with Johnny. He also brought Sue back to life. And yes, she is also human. But to assume a near-godlike alien being, serving an even more godlike alien being who travels across the galaxy eating planets, can only affect the most recent race he encountered, is kind of silly.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, Surfer is fast enough to cover interstellar distances, and was dodging and back handing missiles out of the way when fighting the army. Also, I don't understand how some people can just assume that Zod punching Surfer off his board is fact, when there isn't actually any evidence to support this either way, but won't acknowledge that the Surfer could potentially mess with Zod's genetics, because he has only affected the FF before. Remember, he didn't just mess with Johnny. He also brought Sue back to life. And yes, she is also human. But to assume a near-godlike alien being, serving an even more godlike alien being who travels across the galaxy eating planets, can only affect the most recent race he encountered, is kind of silly.

Well said.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Typically I'd agree with you that somebody could press their advantage. However, Zod has a storied history of doing just that... Hitting somebody and than pontificating and going into a monologue. So yes, that's exactly what he might do if he happens to be able to knock him off his board.

Yeah, he couldn't even stop talking when he was about to have his neck snapped.

Zod is a beast but, based on what we know as fact, not quite enough of a beast to drop the Surfer. But that is hardly anything to be ashamed of.

Neither of those FF films were really very good, so it is easy to forget that the FF and their villains are probably among the most powerful movie versions of their comicbook counterparts. Just take Torch for example. His upper limits are so high that a slip of control when he cuts loose could result in global extinction, at least according to the film. Or the other three, who managed to lift, move and manipulate well over 1500 tons (the London Eye) between the 3 of them (though Ben did do most of the leg work), in the space of a few seconds. Then you have Doom, who is nigh-unhurtable short of tossing him into the sun, and the Surfer who can even bring people back to life. The films weren't great but the characters were hardly anything to scoff at, in terms of power.

Surfer felt Doom's lightning even when doom was in a weakened state.

To say Zod can't do much here is short sighted.

That lightning did no visible damage whatsoever though. It did little more than piss Surfer off. Kryptonians were shown to be affected by large impacts, the ship lasers etc. yet it didn't do any real harm to them either. So simply showing mild visible signs of discomfort is hardly evidence of notable effect or damage.

Hell, Surfer's energy blasts are actually more powerful than the Kryptonian lasers, based on feats, considering a single blast annihilated a huge chunk of the military forces facing him.

Also, assuming Zod tries to fly at Surfer and punch him, what is to stop Surfer from just flipping his board up at the last moment and sucking Zod in, just like he did to the one missile the army shot at him?