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master Zao vs Yoda


no lightsabers
no force powers

philosophical discussion only who has a deeper understanding.

panel of debate moderators decide winner

wtf did Zao do philosophically?

Yoda

Bane dies

Originally posted by Emperordmb
wtf did Zao do philosophically?

he smartly disengaged from jedi council to live as a wondering monk

yoda ****ed up. yoda foolishly allowed jedi to participate as generals in the clone war

something zao was opposed to

yoda = george bush got us into iraq war
zao = obama vote against iraq war

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yoda

his wisdom got the jedi destroyed

zao smartly left it saying it is not true of jedi ideals

zao wins

I feel like this is a weird joke. Not sure how anyone can argue Zao is wiser than Yoda.

Originally posted by Aurbere
I feel like this is a weird joke. Not sure how anyone can argue Zao is wiser than Yoda. yoda got the jedi involved in the clone wars.

zao left the jedi order

Well duh Yoda involved the Jedi in the Clone Wars. The Jedi are kind of bound to the Republic and have been for almost 20 millenia.

Originally posted by redpill
yoda got the jedi involved in the clone wars.
As opposed to... letting Sidious and his puppet Dooku take over the galaxy?

Originally posted by redpill
zao left the jedi order
And made soup.

Originally posted by Emperordmb

And made soup.
Was some damn good soup tho

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Was some damn good soup tho


I'ma eat that shit the next time I get blazed

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As opposed to... letting Sidious and his puppet Dooku take over the galaxy?


And made soup.

zao correctly stated as jedi he is to follow the force and the war does nto serve the force

far superior wisdom to yoda and jedi council

the soup is a manifestation of his wisdom of following the force

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well duh Yoda involved the Jedi in the Clone Wars. The Jedi are kind of bound to the Republic and have been for almost 20 millenia.

as zao pointed out

do jedi serve teh republic

or the force?

zao is wisest of all

And if the Jedi didn't engage in war, the Sith would take over the Galaxy, so...

Besides, "the Force" is a total dick. The Force should serve us.

Luke is a guy I'd have>Yoda in light side philosophy, but not ****ing Zao

what if all the jedi followed zao? no order 66.

Sidious would just kill them all with his galactic spanning Imperial Navy. And it would be even easier, because they would all be in one place.

Originally posted by redpill
his wisdom got the jedi destroyed

zao smartly left it saying it is not true of jedi ideals

zao wins

I'm not sure to take you seriously on this one or not? Yoda was very wise being regarded as the wisest Jedi of all, that wisdom also got him to be the head of all the Jedi and no doubt expanded upon reaching said position, so I'm not seeing how Zao wins this based off what you said. I'm sticking with Yoda who is the Avatar of Light. Unless you take Luke skywalker as that position.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm not sure to take you seriously on this one or not? Yoda was very wise being regarded as the wisest Jedi of all, that wisdom also got him to be the head of all the Jedi and no doubt expanded upon reaching said position, so I'm not seeing how Zao wins this based off what you said. I'm sticking with Yoda who is the Avatar of Light. Unless you take Luke skywalker as that position.

for such a "wise" being, yoda used his position to got the jedi involved in the cw something zao was personally opposed.

and the war destroyed the jedi from within see bariss and mace.

a truly wise jedi sage would be a pacifist as zao was

Originally posted by redpill
for such a "wise" being, yoda used his position to got the jedi involved in the cw something zao was personally opposed.

And?

Wut? Jedi have been through war constantly. Sure, sometimes they fall, but ignoring your problems doesn't solve them. The Jedi needed to defend the Republic. The reason they died is because Sidious outplayed them in a Catch 22, not because they went to war.

No, a "truly wise jedi sage" would do his job, which is defend the Republic. Like it or not, it's the Jedi's duty to serve the Republic. Even if it was not, sitting by would give the Sith the galaxy, and unlike with how events turned out, it would have been through negligence. Zao was an idiot.

Originally posted by redpill
for such a "wise" being, yoda used his position to got the jedi involved in the cw something zao was personally opposed.

and the war destroyed the jedi from within see bariss and mace.

a truly wise jedi sage would be a pacifist as zao was

So you think Yoda wanted the Clone wars? Do you not understand who the Jedi served the republic, and the republic was at war so they had to become generals.

It was all a plan by Sidious who is a master manipulator.

I think fresh pretty much got this one.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So you think Yoda wanted the Clone wars? Do you not understand who the Jedi served the republic, and the republic was at war so they had to become generals.

It was all a plan by Sidious who is a master manipulator.

I think fresh pretty much got this one. The Jedi have no "Official" affiliation with the Republic, they just have the same goals.

Notice how quick everyone is to question Palpatine and multiple diplomats.

Love it when sometimes makes a vs thread to push their own biased agenda.

On topic Yoda's age, superior Force mastery and position in the Order demonstrates superior wisdom to Zao. That said Yoda made the wrong decision to get involved in the Clone Wars, but one bad decision doesn't make Zao overall wiser.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, a "truly wise jedi sage" would do his job, which is defend the Republic. Like it or not, it's the Jedi's duty to serve the Republic.This is at the crux of the issue however, Sidious exploited the fact that the Jedi had come to serve a corrupt state that transformed them from sages to mindless enforcers.

The Separatists were not some evil worshippers of the dark side, they were a legitimate political alliance with ideals that do not in any way conflict with the Jedi Code, but instead of adopting a neutral stance on the issue the Jedi sided with the Republic (who were just as corrupt and morally questionable) and led an army of slaves into a political conflict.

What they should of done is abstained from the war and adopted a neutral stance, then focused on rooting out the Sith elements in both factions, rather than allowing Palpatine to lead them by the nose at they did, and altogether getting involved in a political conflict they had no place in.

The Prequel Trilogy, TCW and the PT EU as a whole is littered with critiques of the Jedi's decision to join the war, it's literally the opinion of George Lucas himself that it was a mistake.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
The Jedi have no "Official" affiliation with the Republic, they just have the same goals.

Notice how quick everyone is to question Palpatine and multiple diplomats.

I believe they did. Why wouldn't they?

"Though much remains unknown, sometime during this period, the Jedi Order swore loyalty to the Republic." Not to mention the numerous cases in TOR where being a Knight is stressed as upholding and protecting the Republic. It's kind of their thing.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
This is at the crux of the issue however, Sidious exploited the fact that the Jedi had come to serve a corrupt state that transformed them from sages to mindless enforcers.

The Separatists were not some evil worshippers of the dark side, they were a legitimate political alliance with ideals that do not in any way conflict with the Jedi Code, but instead of adopting a neutral stance on the issue the Jedi sided with the Republic (who were just as corrupt and morally questionable) and led an army of slaves into a political conflict.

What they should of done is abstained from the war and adopted a neutral stance, then focused on rooting out the Sith elements in both factions, rather than allowing Palpatine to lead them by the nose at they did, and altogether getting involved in a political conflict they had no place in.

The Prequel Trilogy, TCW and the PT EU as a whole is littered with critiques of the Jedi's decision to join the war, it's literally the opinion of George Lucas himself that it was a mistake.
And that's great and all, but in Legends, which this pertains to, and most likely in canon, I think I remember something about "for over a thousand generations," somewhere in there from Obi-Wan, the Jedi served the Republic for thousands of years and protected it during times of crisis. Notice how they didn't suddenly all fall to the Dark Side or kill each other then. Now, if you think it's a good idea to let the Sith steamroll the galaxy, all the power to you. I, and most other rational people, however, realize that saying. "Nah, we're about peace, and we're going to sit this one out," isn't the right answer. Even Luke, with his, "We can't be galactic peacekeepers anymore," realizes that just sitting by and letting things happen isn't the right way. It's retarded. Just sitting and letting things happen because "teh fwarce" causes most of the problems we see happening in Star Wars. Much more than going to war to protect something.

Right, you seem to be ignoring the fact however that the Separatists =/= Sith, Dooku is a Sith yes, but then again they only discovered that halfway through the Battle of Geonosis, and by that point they were already committed to a political conflict. Not only that, but said relevation coincided with the knowledge that the Republic had been infiltrated by a Sith Lord, something they decide to overlook.

So lets not pretend this is a black and white conflict between good and evil, it is not.

Next you talk about serving the Republic as if the Separatists were not made up almost exclusively of former Republic senators who wanted to put a stop to the corruption. Don't the Jedi have any loyalty to them, to the people they represent? And doesn't their oath to the Republic represent more than blind obedience? Doesn't it have something more to do with, I don't know, the ideals being moved further and further away from? Like Obi-Wan says his allegiance is to democracy first and foremost, something ironically the Separatists demonstrated superior ability in, and certainly practiced. Honestly you are beginning to sound like Anakin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPCXHnH23Cc&t=0m34s

Who even a child could see speaks out of ignorance and bigotry.

This isn't like any conflict the Jedi have been involved in before, this is a schism, a practical civil war were both sides have claim to "right".

Finally you talk of apathy, which is doubly ironic as that is not only exactly the path they took, by going along with the whole conflict and largely ignoring and so failing to act on the Sith threat until it was far too late, but it's the opposite of what I suggested. Being that by extracting themselves from the politics, the Jedi Order could actively resolve the real issues. You know like:
Ending the war which they knew was aiding the Sith/dark side, something Heroes on Both Sides demonstrates could have easily been accomplished.

Hunting down the Sith and putting a stop to the Sith, which when they finally get off their asses and attempt to results in them cornering and almost capturing Darth Sidious in pretty short order.If they have focused on these two objectives, they could have stopped the Grand Plan in its tracks, rather than apathetically allowing themselves to play the parts the Sith intended, despite being in possession of so many of the facts.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, you seem to be ignoring the fact however that the Separatists =/= Sith, Dooku is a Sith yes, but then again they only discovered that halfway through the Battle of Geonosis, and by that point they were already committed to a political conflict. Not only that, but said relevation coincided with the knowledge that the Republic had been infiltrated by a Sith Lord, something they decide to overlook.

Too bad Sidious revealed his involvement with them in TPM then, isn't it.

Yeah, it's a black and white conflict between stupid and more stupid.

No, not really. They are duty bound to the Republic where as Obi-Wan himself serves "democracy," which while you can argue is not how the Republic works semantics wise, on the surface, that was kind of the point. Hence it being called "the Galactic Republic," and not the "Galactic Totalitarian State that Republics are in reality." By the way, he said, "My allegiance is to the Republic. To democracy!." Nice edit, tho.

How exactly do you know that? How exactly would the Jedi even come to this conclusion? Finally, why should the Jedi just decide to break their vows because the government is corrupt when the point to a "Republic" is just to change who you put in power, at least on a technical level? Also, yeah it's a civil war where both sides think they're right. Kind of like every situation in every civil war, like literally every one, ever.

You mean like trying to capture Dooku, which they do several times? Trying to find the Sith Lord behind the Separatists, which they've been doing since the Phantom Menace? Or by not just letting the galaxy fall to the Sith? In case you didn't notice, the Clone Wars didn't actually begin until AFTER Geonosis.

It's almost like they didn't know who Sidious was. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif
It's almost like they may have even thought he was Dooku. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif
It's almost like they couldn't find him because he was hiding and interfering with their ability to perceive the future and himself. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

Right, I'm sure the Republic will be fine, because not only was not Dooku behind an army, not only did the Republic not care about having leadership for theirs, and not only did the Jedi really not have to do anything, the Jedi really weren't even trying to find the Sith. The things you know.
http://i.imgur.com/4JvGgfB.gif

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Too bad Sidious revealed his involvement with them in TPM then, isn't it.I meant in terms of his association with the Republic, but you are right, the Jedi knew that the Sith were pulling the strings long before the Clone Wars but still went along with it.And yet you claim the Jedi intelligence for getting involved. Lol, all you've done is reiterated your point and failed to actual engage with mine on any significant level. I'm not going to type out my response again, but I will highlight the irony that by the end of the Clone Wars the Republic was practically under Palpatine's authoritarian rule. A real democracy. Erm, by observing the Separatists have a functioning democratic parliament, that they were comprised of many former Republic senators like Mina Bonteri who genuinely believed the Republic was corrupt, and finally that the Republic was corrupt and the Senate largely ineffective and controlled by cooperation?

You act as if this is some kind of secret. It wasn't, the Jedi just chose to ignorant it and do nothing.By opening their eyes? By pausing for a moment before they charge into battle against the evil Seppies and actually consider both sides of the conflict, by engaging with Separatists leaders in a dialogue? You know, do what diplomats and peacekeepers are supposed to do?By realising the Republic is no longer the state the swore an oath to, by realising the conflict will not resolve anything, by realising Republic and Separatists can coexist, by realising that protecting the ideals of the Republic can't always be achieved through violence? By realising that the Sith threat is the real threat here? Not the Separatists?No, I mean by brokering a peace like they never attempted. And yet they managed to almost find out regardless when a proper attempt was made, Yoda was even able to sense Sidious' presence on Coruscant by meditating.

Fact is, though some effort was made to find the Sith, the Clone Wars not only distracted them from the real conflict, by their involvement made the dark side shroud stronger, just as Sidious intended. If they had not gotten involved in the war, their effectiveness would have increased and their vision less clouded.http://i.imgur.com/4JvGgfB.gif

Thanks for saving me the time of finding an appropriate gif.

Originally posted by redpill
yoda = george bush got us into iraq war
zao = obama vote against iraq war LOL

Originally posted by Aurbere
I feel like this is a weird joke. Not sure how anyone can argue Zao is wiser than Yoda. where was Yoda when order 66 came done vs Zao?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And?

Wut? Jedi have been through war constantly. Sure, sometimes they fall, but ignoring your problems doesn't solve them. The Jedi needed to defend the Republic. The reason they died is because Sidious outplayed them in a Catch 22, not because they went to war.

No, a "truly wise jedi sage" would do his job, which is defend the Republic. Like it or not, it's the Jedi's duty to serve the Republic. Even if it was not, sitting by would give the Sith the galaxy, and unlike with how events turned out, it would have been through negligence. Zao was an idiot.

no, a "truly wise jedi sage" is to serve the light side of the Force as Zao has done. not be generals in an manufactured war.

Yoda doesn't get that. Zao does.

Zao is wiser than Yoda

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Love it when sometimes makes a vs thread to push their own biased agenda.

On topic Yoda's age, superior Force mastery and position in the Order demonstrates superior wisdom to Zao. That said Yoda made the wrong decision to get involved in the Clone Wars, but one bad decision doesn't make Zao overall wiser.

by that accounting Anakin is the wisest of them all

Because Anakin is older, possesses superior Force mastery and has a higher position in the Jedi Order than Yoda... Originally posted by redpill
no, a "truly wise jedi sage" is to serve the light side of the Force as Zao has done. not be generals in an manufactured war.

Yoda doesn't get that. Zao does.

Zao is wiser than Yoda Have you considered that Yoda might have learned from his mistakes? He did:

Windu: Did your journey give you insight on how to win the war?

Yoda: No longer certain that one ever does win a war I am. For in fighting the battles, the bloodshed already lost we have. Yet, open to us, a path remains that unknown to the Sith is. Through this path, victory we may yet find. Not victory in the Clone Wars but victory for all time.

Clearly he gets it very well.

Originally posted by redpill
where was Yoda when order 66 came done vs Zao?

Yoda was attempting to work against the Sith, unlike Zao who was apparently perfectly content in handing the Sith the galaxy on a silver platter. Like it or not, allowing the dark side to prevail is not in service to the light.

Also, Yoda is factually wiser than Zao.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because Anakin is older, possesses superior Force mastery and has a higher position in the Jedi Order than Yoda... Have you considered that Yoda might have learned from his mistakes? He did:

Windu: Did your journey give you insight on how to win the war?

Yoda: No longer certain that one ever does win a war I am. For in fighting the battles, the bloodshed already lost we have. Yet, open to us, a path remains that unknown to the Sith is. Through this path, victory we may yet find. Not victory in the Clone Wars but victory for all time.

Clearly he gets it very well.

it is Zao superior wisdom that prevented Zao from making Yoda's mistakes to begin with.

Originally posted by Aurbere
Also, Yoda is factually wiser than Zao.

how so?

Originally posted by Aurbere
Yoda was attempting to work against the Sith, unlike Zao who was apparently perfectly content in handing the Sith the galaxy on a silver platter. Like it or not, allowing the dark side to prevail is not in service to the light.

Yoda was in fact working with the Sith. Some wisdom.

Zao was attuned to the Force and in wisdom he declined to be a general or participate in the war, that gave the Sith the keys.

if you can take off the blinders, Zao was wise and Yoda was not

Originally posted by redpill
it is Zao superior wisdom that prevented Zao from making Yoda's mistakes to begin with. Consider that 1. Yoda is wiser than Zao in all other respects 2. Zao for all his wisdom did nothing whereas Yoda ultimately played an integral part in saving the galaxy, I would disagree.

rhetorical flourish

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Consider that 1. Yoda is wiser than Zao in all other respects 2. Zao for all his wisdom did nothing whereas Yoda ultimately played an integral part in saving the galaxy, I would disagree.

what are these other respects?

zao's wisdom is to listen and act on the willl of the Force. all a wise jedi needs

Redpill did you rebut Aubre?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke is a guy I'd have>Yoda in light side philosophy, but not ****ing Zao



Just even stuff like being able to have a husband/wife; Jedi need to get laid too, otherwise that shit gets pent up.

Originally posted by Trocity


Just even stuff like being able to have a husband/wife; Jedi need to get laid too, otherwise that shit gets pent up.
Less centralization of power, the lack of kidnapping children, and the greater open-mindedness to other force traditions is nice too

The Jedi didn't kidnap children. Anyway, I'll find some time to respond to that garbage tonight, Beni.

I think its only love thats restricted for Jedi. I can't imagine they've banned sex.

I mean ya gotta think theres some alien species with a bonkers sex drive out there that celibacy is a pipe dream for.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Jedi didn't kidnap children. Anyway, I'll find some time to respond to that garbage tonight, Beni.
The Jedi don't require parental consent to take force sensitive children, which is a part of Republic law.

Jedi Path

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think its only love thats restricted for Jedi. I can't imagine they've banned sex.
Compassion, unconditional love, is central to a Jedi's life. You might say that they are encouraged to love.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Jedi don't require parental consent to take force sensitive children, which is a part of Republic law.

Jedi Path

Page? I can't find it.

That's not the exact quote, but it's on the misconceptions about the Jedi page, somewhere relatively close to the end of the book I think. I'm at work atm, so I don't have a copy on hand.

Found it, although I can see where it's justified so that the child doesn't lose control and start to have their power corrupt them, which could lead them to overtaking their home planet, killing their loved ones and so on.

I mean...it's wrong that they can just take them, but it's not like it's for an unjust cause. Though it seems reading, the Jedi do more or less approach the parents about it and not just take them out of the blue...though it seems they can I guess.

Also reading through this book again, Ahsoka really comes off as a smug little **** to just about everything.

Ahsoka's ****ing hilarious in the Jedi Path, lol

If Yoda was wiser, Anakin would not have fallen.


He also might've spent more effort into finding out what was behind the Clone War, rather than fighting it.


My impression was in terms of actual wisdom, Yoda was supposed to be a bit blind in some areas. Qui-Gon was the one who was able to see through some of the Jedi's flaws.




Mm, there was a story with Windu and a baby taken by the Jedi. The parent hired a bounty hunter- and it turned out, they had brought the kid to the Jedi, then changed their minds, and upon finding this out, Windu returned the kid.

I don't know of any instances where a kid was taken despite parental request.

Heck, there's times when a kid was trained and stayed with thair family too, like Xanatos.

He also knowingly let Jedi council members he trained from padawans die in TCW instead of telling them of his force vision he had.

But hey, he is the wisest Jedi of all time!

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Redpill did you rebut Aubre?

i click quote but it won't enter.

if Zao and Yoda were to discuss and debate the Force, Zao would ask how Yoda can get Jedi involved as generals in teh clone wars. Zao's position is Jedi should NOT be involved in the clone war, as this is contary to the will of the Force.


In my mind Zao is far wiser than Yoda

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The Jedi don't require parental consent to take force sensitive children, which is a part of Republic law.

Jedi Path
"Initiates were the children, or younglings, sent to
tile temple to train to become a Jedi. Some citizens
have heard falsehoods of Jedi forcibly taking Force using
children to the temple for training. "

"Those meeting
certain criteria, usually related to midi-chlorian levels,
were turned over to the Jedi for oversight of their development.
The Jedi and the Republic government believed
that only formal, guided training could ensure
that Force users would not fall to the dark side. To leave
any on their own was to risk releasing powerful monsters
into the world. ready to exploit their powers. light
or dark, at the expense of. and immense risk to, others. "

-Force and Destiny

Get on my quote swag, dmb.

I prefer Luke's philosophy of voluntary initiation only, because liberty and shit, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well duh Yoda involved the Jedi in the Clone Wars. The Jedi are kind of bound to the Republic and have been for almost 20 millenia.

and Zao correctly asked - do Jedi serve teh republic or the Force?

They should serve both.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They should serve both.

do recall what zao's objection was?

Originally posted by redpill
i click quote but it won't enter.

Aubre showed a quote saying Yoda was the wisest Jedi ever. I believe that's it for your theory that Zao is wiser.

Originally posted by redpill
do recall what zao's objection was?
I don't recall Zao being the end all of anything but soup.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I don't recall Zao being the end all of anything but soup. more than just soup discussed

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Aubre showed a quote saying Yoda was the wisest Jedi ever. I believe that's it for your theory that Zao is wiser.

yeah it's progaganda

Proof of it being propaganda? I'd assume the FACT FILES would contain nothing but truth. Given that it's, you know, a fact.

Originally posted by Aurbere
Proof of it being propaganda? I'd assume the FACT FILES would contain nothing but truth. Given that it's, you know, a fact.

yoda wisest of jedi got the jedi involved in the cw to serve as generals which lead to order 66

zao said a jedi should NOT serve in the cw.

when order 66 came yoda was close to being killed by 2 arc troopers

zao was never recognized by clone troopers as a jedi

zao wiser.

So just in your opinion, which, as for everyone, is rather meaningless in the face of hard facts. Cool.

Originally posted by Aurbere
So just in your opinion, which, as for everyone, is rather meaningless in the face of hard facts. Cool. "yoda is the wisest" is an opinion that is contradicted by the decisions he made, in contrast to those of zao

Originally posted by redpill
"yoda is the wisest" is an opinion that is contradicted by the decisions he made, in contrast to those of zao

No it's not. It's fact. Yoda is the wisest Jedi, and has the showings to back it up. He had no choice but to enter the war. The Jedi serve the republic, so he had no choice. At least Yoda did something while Zao was just worthless.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No it's not. It's fact. Yoda is the wisest Jedi, and has the showings to back it up. He had no choice but to enter the war. The Jedi serve the republic, so he had no choice. At least Yoda did something while Zao was just worthless.

the "showings" include involving the jedi order in a war where they were decimated and corrupted from within.

zao showed another path for jedi.

saying yoda is the wisest jedi is like saying hitler is the wisest nazi, that's the fact. hitler's wisdom include dragging nazi germany into ww2.

is hitler the wisest nazi?

Originally posted by redpill
the "showings" include involving the jedi order in a war where they were decimated and corrupted from within.

zao showed another path for jedi.

saying yoda is the wisest jedi is like saying hitler is the wisest nazi, that's the fact. hitler's wisdom include dragging nazi germany into ww2.

is hitler the wisest nazi?

Which they had no choice but to be end.

He showed the path of the lazy.

Those two aren't comparable. Yoda, you just saw in a fact file was canocially provn to be the wisest Jedi. He has lived 900 years so by that would have more wisdom. Notice how in AOTC Anakin attempts to compare Obi wan to Yoda saying as WISE as master Yoda. He could have said Master Zao, but no he chose Yoda.

Originally posted by redpill
yoda wisest of jedi got the jedi involved in the cw to serve as generals which lead to order 66

zao said a jedi should NOT serve in the cw.

when order 66 came yoda was close to being killed by 2 arc troopers

zao was never recognized by clone troopers as a jedi

zao wiser.

Order 66 would have happened regardless. Except if the Jedi ran away like cowards, then they'd be facing a massive armada they could never hope to defeat. Either way they lose and the Sith win.

Zao was perfectly content to allow darkness to take hold.

So, answer me this: how is allowing the dark side to prevail a service to the light side?

For all of Zao's supposed wisdom, his ideals were in direct contradiction to his goal.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Which they had no choice but to be end.

He showed the path of the lazy.

Those two aren't comparable. Yoda, you just saw in a fact file was canocially provn to be the wisest Jedi. He has lived 900 years so by that would have more wisdom. Notice how in AOTC Anakin attempts to compare Obi wan to Yoda saying as WISE as master Yoda. He could have said Master Zao, but no he chose Yoda.

a book that says yoda is wisest when yoda's action and decisions prove otherwise? just bc a book says something, when yoda does something unwise, doesn't mean anything.

yoda always had choices. he made a choice AND he had a vision of order 66 but stayed course and made no adjustments

zao was wiser to simply avoid it.

yes i do think its comparable to hitlers decision to invade soviet union or george bush decision to invade iraq or jefferson davis decision to wage war on the union.

yoda had a choice and his choice corrupted the jedi turned public opinion against the jedi and resulted in order 66 and domination of the sith.

some wisdom

Public opinion would have turned against the Jedi even worse if they did nothing. You ever hear about the Mandalorian Wars?

Originally posted by redpill
a book that says yoda is wisest when yoda's action and decisions prove otherwise? just bc a book says something, when yoda does something unwise, doesn't mean anything.

yoda always had choices. he made a choice AND he had a vision of order 66 but stayed course and made no adjustments

zao was wiser to simply avoid it.

yes i do think its comparable to hitlers decision to invade soviet union or george bush decision to invade iraq or jefferson davis decision to wage war on the union.

yoda had a choice and his choice corrupted the jedi turned public opinion against the jedi and resulted in order 66 and domination of the sith.

some wisdom

1. Yoda's action show wisdom. What actions show his "lack of wisdom"? Can't be the clone wars since he didn't have a choice but to enter.

2. What vision? I don't remember such a vision. I remember the vision at the end of the clone wars where Sidious tried to fool him.

3. Well TBH what you think doesn't matter since you're trying to say some crazy old dude is wiser than Yoda and not even replying to Aubre's and I response that the Jedi had no choice but to enter the war.

4. No he didn't. The Jedi serve the republic. They have for millennias. He had no choice.

Still not seeing how Zao is wiser.

Originally posted by Aurbere
Public opinion would have turned against the Jedi even worse if they did nothing. You ever hear about the Mandalorian Wars?

well the public opinion did turn against the jedi AND corrupted them as noted by bariss offee

some wisdom yoda has

I'll indulge your inane babbling after you prove allowing the dark side to win is in accordance with Zao's goals.

Originally posted by Aurbere
I'll indulge your inane babbling after you prove allowing the dark side to win is in accordance with Zao's goals.

huh?

where did zao ever say that?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
No it's not. It's fact. Yoda is the wisest Jedi
I'd say that only applies to his time though.

I sure as hell don't think he's wiser than GM Luke.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd say that only applies to his time though.

I sure as hell don't think he's wiser than GM Luke.

I agree.

Originally posted by redpill
huh?

where did zao ever say that?

You did:

Originally posted by redpill
no, a "truly wise jedi sage" is to serve the light side of the Force as Zao has done. not be generals in an manufactured war.

Yoda doesn't get that. Zao does.

Zao is wiser than Yoda

Let's follow this logic.

Zao's wisdom is to serve the light side. To that end, he abandons the galaxy to the Clone Wars. If all Jedi followed this 'wisdom' the galaxy would be left in darkness and the light side would be supplanted by the dark side.

So again I ask, how does allowing that serve the light side in any way?

Originally posted by Aurbere
You did:



Let's follow this logic.

Zao's wisdom is to serve the light side. To that end, he abandons the galaxy to the Clone Wars. If all Jedi followed this 'wisdom' the galaxy would be left in darkness and the light side would be supplanted by the dark side.

So again I ask, how does allowing that serve the light side in any way?

if all jedi followed zao's example that would introduce what chaos theory calls the butterfly effect

if you ever time travel dont step on that butterfly

how does yoda's strategy of allowing nearly all the jedi murdered by their own troopers which he saw in a vision would happen, with all the jedi gone, help serve the light side?

once sidious was in control he continued to hunt down jedi

And how does Zao making soup help serve the light side?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And how does Zao making soup help serve the light side? its a spiritual practice like meditation

Originally posted by redpill
its a spiritual practice like meditation

So what do you call what Yoda was doin so flimpin much then? Resting?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So what do you call what Yoda was doin so flimpin much then? Resting?
Telekinetic masturbation...

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So what do you call what Yoda was doin so flimpin much then? Resting?

he had a vision in his vision he saw all the jedi killed by both clone troopers sidious and anakin

yoda didn't change anything or tell anyone

then his vision came true

some wisdom

Originally posted by redpill
if all jedi followed zao's example that would introduce what chaos theory calls the butterfly effect

if you ever time travel dont step on that butterfly

how does yoda's strategy of allowing nearly all the jedi murdered by their own troopers which he saw in a vision would happen, with all the jedi gone, help serve the light side?

once sidious was in control he continued to hunt down jedi

I'm aware of what the butterfly effect is. But as has been said before, that changes only one thing: How the Jedi die. They would still be eradicated no matter what path was taken.

You have yet to prove that Zao is wiser than Yoda based on this philosophy. At best you can say they are equally wise. But unlike Zao, Yoda actually did something to stop the rise of the dark side. Zao was perfectly content to let darkness win. How is that wise?

Originally posted by Aurbere
I'm aware of what the butterfly effect is. But as has been said before, that changes only one thing: How the Jedi die. They would still be eradicated no matter what path was taken.

You have yet to prove that Zao is wiser than Yoda based on this philosophy. At best you can say they are equally wise. But unlike Zao, Yoda actually did something to stop the rise of the dark side. Zao was perfectly content to let darkness win. How is that wise?

do you recall what zao said to tholme in republic

Originally posted by redpill
he had a vision in his vision he saw all the jedi killed by both clone troopers sidious and anakin

yoda didn't change anything or tell anyone

then his vision came true

some wisdom
That was ****ing stupid on Yoda's part, but with that knowledge, he and Obi-Wan trained Luke who brought down the Death Star, the Empire, and the Banite Sith Order, before reestablishing the Jedi Order, which is a whole hell of a lot more than Zao accomplished by making soup.

Yoda made some mistakes in his activism for sure (mostly relating to how he dealt with unveiling the grand plan), but at least he actually took an active stance against the dark side that bore some fruition (Luke and the NJO, Force Ghost), unlike Zao.

Originally posted by redpill
do you recall what zao said to tholme in republic

Zao is so lacking in wisdom that I completely forgot anything he said. So share.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That was ****ing stupid on Yoda's part,

so you agree that yoda was stupid in that instance and stupidity is the opposite of wisdom correct?

Who is wiser?

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/68/Zao-SWREP33.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150707051905
http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Yoda-Phantom-Menace-Puppet-561x316.jpg

It doesn't matter...

Both are sexy AF

Originally posted by Aurbere
Zao is so lacking in wisdom that I completely forgot anything he said. So share. you know what i like most about star wars? not clone troopers or bounty hunters or anything

i like the discussions of religion and spirituality

the force is ofc the religion and spirtuality of sw

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Who is wiser?

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/68/Zao-SWREP33.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150707051905
http://static2.hypable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Yoda-Phantom-Menace-Puppet-561x316.jpg

It doesn't matter...

Both are sexy AF first picture didn't work well

yeah both gurus

the thing would not ****ing work for that one for whatever reason

Originally posted by Emperordmb
the thing would not ****ing work for that one for whatever reason

zao's soup no doubt

Originally posted by redpill
you know what i like most about star wars? not clone troopers or bounty hunters or anything

i like the discussions of religion and spirituality

the force is ofc the religion and spirtuality of sw
I'm Catholic. I detest anyone however who holds an attitude of "I don't need to do anything... God will work it out." I believe we as people, with our knowledge/power, should take an active role in making the world a better place.

Likewise, if the Jedi believe they are force sensitive by will of the Force, it only makes sense that the Jedi are granted that power by the will of the Force to take an active role in trying to fix shit, not sitting by and waiting for things to work themselves out.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'm Catholic. I detest anyone however who holds an attitude of "I don't need to do anything... God will work it out." I believe we as people, with our knowledge/power, should take an active role in making the world a better place.

Likewise, if the Jedi believe they are force sensitive by will of the Force, it only makes sense that the Jedi are granted that power by the will of the Force to take an active role in trying to fix shit, not sitting by and waiting for things to work themselves out.

i do think that is zao's wisdom that the force will work it out. the force being ofc god. in his view the jedi and yoda were acting against the will of the force in being generals. that was unwise.

in the sw universe the force "god" exists. i doubt god exists in our universe.


again zao does meditation. meditatin is not nothing. it is a spiritual practice. he is blind but relies on the force to see.

You're missing the point, anyone who serves a higher purpose should actually take an active role in that purpose, rather than hoping for things to turn out well.

Zao can meditate all he wants and make soup for all, it's not gonna stop the dark side though.

Meditation isn't nothing, but if you don't use it to improve the Galaxy, it doesn't mean jack shit in the grander scheme of things.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You're missing the point, anyone who serves a higher purpose should actually take an active role in that purpose, rather than hoping for things to turn out well.

Zao can meditate all he wants and make soup for all, it's not gonna stop the dark side though.

Meditation isn't nothing, but if you don't use it to improve the Galaxy, it doesn't mean jack shit in the grander scheme of things.

iin the star wars universe spiritual practices like meditation are improving the galaxy, they help maintain the force in balance.


kinda like prayer in christians to empower jesus over satan.

meditation for jedi is empowering the light side over the dark side

Holy shit, what the **** are you talking about? Not only are you grossly wrong about Star Wars, but you know shit about the largest religion in the world. Holy ****.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Holy shit, what the **** are you talking about? Not only are you grossly wrong about Star Wars, but you know shit about the largest religion in the world. Holy ****.

oh really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritual_warfare



Spiritual warfare is the Christian version of the concept of taking a stand against preternatural evil forces. The foundation for this ideology is having a belief in evil spirits which are able to intervene in human affairs. Various Christian groups have adopted practices to repel such forces, as based on their doctrine of Christian demonology. Prayer is a common form of spiritual warfare among Christians. Other practices may include exorcisms, laying-on of hands, fasting, or anointing with oil.

Contents

1 Doctrines of demonology
2 Practices in Christianity
2.1 Catholicism
2.2 Reformation
2.3 Evangelicalism
2.4 Pentecostalism
2.5 Charismatic movement
2.6 Jehovah's Witnesses
3 Criticism
3.1 Controversies
3.2 Christian countercult movement
4 Cultural influence
5 See also
6 References
6.1 Footnotes
6.2 Bibliography
6.3 Further reading
6.3.1 In fiction

Doctrines of demonology

Jewish demonology escalated with the rise of Jewish pseudepigraphic writings of the 1st Century BCE, in particular with Enochic apocrypha. Jewish apocrypha initially influenced post-New Testament writings of the early fathers, which further defined Christian demonology. Thus followed literary works such as The Didache, The Shepherd of Hermas, Ignatius's epistle to the Ephesians, and Origen's Contra Celsum.

Mainstream Christianity typically acknowledge a belief in the reality (or ontological existence) of demons, fallen angels, the Devil in Christianity and Satan. In Christian evangelism, doctrines of demonology are influenced by interpretations of the New Testament, namely with the Gospels, in that dealing with spirits became a customary activity of Jesus' ministry. Mark states that "he traveled throughout Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and driving out demons" (Mark 1:39).

Exorcisms may be promoted by evangelists referring to Jesus comment, "If I drive out demons by the spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is upon you" (Matt.12:28; Luke 11:20).

Evangelical Christian traditions believe that Satan and his minions exercise significant influence over this world and its power structures. A hostile realm in conflict with the kingdom of God is recorded in the Bible by the Apostle John, "the whole world is under the control of the evil one" (1 John 5:19) and by Jesus who referred to Satan as "the prince of this world" (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11), which may point to the concept of Territorial Spirits.

Paul elaborates on demonic hierarchy in Ephesians 6 where he also mentions, by way of metaphor, those qualities needed for defense against them. Two of those articles, the helmet of Salvation and the breastplate of Righteousness, were lifted from the book of Isaiah.

It is also believed that Satan occupies a temporal existence when the Apostle Paul refers to him as "the god of this age" (2 Cor.4:4). Further, Paul's epistles focus on the Victory of Christ over principalities and powers. Evangelical interpretation has history divided into two eras: the present evil age and the age to come which supports the concept of the Second coming of Christ.

Imagery of spiritual warfare is displayed in the Book of Revelation when after the War in Heaven (Rev.12:7), the beasts and kings of the earth wage war against God's people (Rev.19:19), and a final battle ensues with Satan and the nations of the earth against God himself (Rev.20:8).
Practices in Christianity
The Spiritual Warfare (c1623), a print by Martin Droeshout depicting the devil's army besieging a walled city held by a "Christian Soldier bold" guarded by figures representing the Christian virtues. It has been suggested that this print may have influenced John Bunyan to write The Holy War.

Christian practices of spiritual warfare vary throughout Christianity. The development of specific spiritual warfare techniques has also generated many discussions in the Christian missions community. Critical exchanges of views may be found in periodicals like the Evangelical Missions Quarterly (such as in volume 31, number 2 published in 1995), and in conferences sponsored by the Evangelical Missions Society. In 2000, an international collaborative attempt was made by evangelicals and charismatics in the Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization to reach some common agreement about spiritual warfare. The conference gathered in Nairobi, Kenya, and yielded a consultation document as well as many technical papers published as the book Deliver Us from Evil.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I meant in terms of his association with the Republic, but you are right, the Jedi knew that the Sith were pulling the strings long before the Clone Wars but still went along with it. And yet you claim the Jedi intelligence for getting involved.

Maybe because if they didn't get involved the Sith would, you know, defeat the Republic and gain a major foothold in the galaxy from which they could take over and destroy the Jedi. Like they've done countless times before and after. Just a thought.

Notice how that had shit to do with the Jedi and a lot more to do with the idiocy of the people it's kind of their job to protect. Or should they just let people die because, hey, a Sith Lord you can't even sense might be anyone?

What the **** does that have to do with anything? Like at all. It's run by a Sith, so obviously the Jedi aren't going to support it. What kind of brain injury makes you think otherwise?

Because that didn't happen several times during the Clone Wars.There were no negotiations. At all. Not any. Those entire branches of the Republic and the Jedi Order devoted to diplomacy? Never happened.

Because he was actively stopping them from being able to sense him. Seriously. Obviously the answer is to throw up your arms and let the Sith win, because like it or not, hey, the Republic is full of bad guys, and that Sith run group of Rebels? Kind of cool people.

Complete and utter bullshit. The war would have happened regardless, and sitting out because reasons wouldn't help matters. Just like it wouldn't help that in Legends: The Dark Side was supreme because of a ritual, and in Canon: the Force was out of balance because of large scale war and Sidious using a nexus underneath the Jedi to stop their abilities. None of which have shit to do with the Jedi actually doing their jobs.

Yes. My head also explodes from having to read the stupid contained in every line here. I can't even imagine how it must feel to write it.

Originally posted by redpill
oh really?

*snip*
Pro tip, don't link Wikipedia articles about "various Christian groups" and act like it reflects even a slight majority of Christianity out there. No one actually thinks that Jesus, God, or what have you, needs human worship to combat Satan. That's nonsense.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Pro tip, don't link Wikipedia articles about "various Christian groups" and act like it reflects even a slight majority of Christianity out there. No one actually thinks that Jesus, God, or what have you, needs human worship to combat Satan. That's nonsense.

the article does identify christians and christian religions sects who believe there is spiritual warfare and prayer is an effective means of combatting demonic satanic evil. christians pray w saints jesus mary god to combat satan and his demons

this ofc is in star wars with light side/dark side jedi vs sith

christians pray to jesus god saints mary to fight satan and the demons

jedi meditate on force to combat dark side sith

You spouting nonsense about Star Wars is one thing. You talking beaucoup shit about my religion is another. No one prays to God so he has the strength to combat Satan or anything else. They pray because they think this will earn God's favor/attention/blessings and to show devotion even in trying times so as the awful things in their life are alleviated. Second, that's actually not why the Jedi mediate. They mediate to center themselves and control their emotions, as well as seen into the future, and other such shenanigans.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You spouting nonsense about Star Wars is one thing. You talking beaucoup shit about my religion is another. No one prays to God so he has the strength to combat Satan or anything else. They pray because they think this will earn God's favor/attention/blessings and to show devotion even in trying times so as the awful things in their life are alleviated. Second, that's actually not why the Jedi mediate. They mediate to center themselves and control their emotions, as well as seen into the future, and other such shenanigans.

i just shared with you an article on christian spiritual warfare.

what do u think holy water is for? to fight satan and his demons.

star wars is also spiritual warfare patterned after xtianity.

yoda/zao is jesus
sidious is satan

lmao

This thread has made my ears bleed.

watch?v=OKEdklILMi8

Originally posted by redpill
he had a vision in his vision he saw all the jedi killed by both clone troopers sidious and anakin

yoda didn't change anything or tell anyone

then his vision came true

some wisdom

That was the last season me he didn't understand it, so he had to further meditate on it. Even if he told anyone it wouldn't have done anything since they couldn't turn on the chancellor.

Above.

One thing that he couldn't stop means nothing.

All Zao did was sit on his butt and eat soup. At least Yoda fought the empire. Grandmaster of the order wiser than anyone else.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That was the last season me he didn't understand it, so he had to further meditate on it. Even if he told anyone it wouldn't have done anything since they couldn't turn on the chancellor.

Above.

One thing that he couldn't stop means nothing.

All Zao did was sit on his butt and eat soup. At least Yoda fought the empire. Grandmaster of the order wiser than anyone else.

george bush got the us involved in the iraq war.
in the end it led to instability and the rise of isis which among other things led to a terrorist attack in paris

was that wise?

adolf hitler got nazi germany involved in a war with the soviet union and it resulted in the complete destruction of nazi germany

was that wise?

jefferson davis got the confederate involved in a war with the Union and resulted in teh destruction of the South as an independent nation.

was that wise?

yoda is supposed to be a jedi

this is fundamental jedi value




"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
―Yoda

what does yoda do? he gets fellow jedis involved in a war as jedi generals that resulted in teh complete destruction of the order, and corruption within as noted by bariss offee in tcw

zao clearly stated jedi participation of the war is a betrayal of jedi code and refused to fight.

if you call someone wise but they make decisions that subvert their order, pervert and corrupt them betray their fundamental values and leads to the destruction of the order, and another person is less wise but avoids making such decisions which is wiser?


when order 66 came down there was an attempt by the clone arc troopers to kill yoda in the heat of battle on kashykk as the result of earlier decisions and commitments yoda made

no clone trooper recognized zao as a jedi as the result of earlier decisions and commitments zao made.

if yoda and zao switched places so that yoda was living anonymously on dagobah and only a few jedi knew him and who he was and zao was leading the clone troopers and shot down d you still wiser?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice

http://i.imgur.com/4JvGgfB.gif

Originally posted by redpill
george bush got the us involved in the iraq war.
in the end it led to instability and the rise of isis which among other things led to a terrorist attack in paris

was that wise?

adolf hitler got nazi germany involved in a war with the soviet union and it resulted in the complete destruction of nazi germany

was that wise?

jefferson davis got the confederate involved in a war with the Union and resulted in teh destruction of the South as an independent nation.

was that wise?

yoda is supposed to be a jedi

this is fundamental jedi value




"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."
―Yoda

what does yoda do? he gets fellow jedis involved in a war as jedi generals that resulted in teh complete destruction of the order, and corruption within as noted by bariss offee in tcw

zao clearly stated jedi participation of the war is a betrayal of jedi code and refused to fight.

if you call someone wise but they make decisions that subvert their order, pervert and corrupt them betray their fundamental values and leads to the destruction of the order, and another person is less wise but avoids making such decisions which is wiser?


when order 66 came down there was an attempt by the clone arc troopers to kill yoda in the heat of battle on kashykk as the result of earlier decisions and commitments yoda made

no clone trooper recognized zao as a jedi as the result of earlier decisions and commitments zao made.

if yoda and zao switched places so that yoda was living anonymously on dagobah and only a few jedi knew him and who he was and zao was leading the clone troopers and shot down d you still wiser?


That has what to do with Yoda and Zao? No one ever said Bush was wise. Bush had a choice with Iraq, Yoda never had a choice with the clone wars.

Above.

Again above. Hitler had a choice to enter a war. Yoda never did. Find some situations that actually are similar to Yoda.

Above.

Yoda is the head of the Jedi, the wisest of them all.

The force is used for defense. Remember Yoda's tutaminis and how he never used it offensively agaisnt Dooku in AOTC except to counter. That's a preference really. All Jedi use the the force for offense.

Are you an idiot. How many times do we all have to show you that Yoda never had a choice in getting involved in the Clone wars. The Jedi SERVE the republic, they have a sworn oath to protect the republic, so he had no choice but to be in the clone wars.

Betrayal? How? They are fighting droids so it's not like their killing living things. Throughout the war Yoda says the force we shall meditate on, or the force shall guide us, or the force shall give us the answer. At least Yoda did something. He tried to stop the dark side while if Zao was leader the he would have just let the Sith rule the galaxy without so much as a skirmish and the universe woudl have just been ruled by the Sith with no one to fight back.

Well that would interest me if Yoda did any unwise things. Yoda is most likely the second wisest character(mortal)after Luke Skywalker.

No order 66 was made by Darth Sidious through manipulation and clouding the Jedi's vision.

Or maybe he just wasn't found? Also if they found him they would have killed him because he practiced the force.

Yoda beats Zao in every category. Except making soup.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That has what to do with Yoda and Zao? No one ever said Bush was wise. Bush had a choice with Iraq, Yoda never had a choice with the clone wars.

Above.

Again above. Hitler had a choice to enter a war. Yoda never did. Find some situations that actually are similar to Yoda.

Above.

Yoda is the head of the Jedi, the wisest of them all.

The force is used for defense. Remember Yoda's tutaminis and how he never used it offensively agaisnt Dooku in AOTC except to counter. That's a preference really. All Jedi use the the force for offense.

Are you an idiot. How many times do we all have to show you that Yoda never had a choice in getting involved in the Clone wars. The Jedi SERVE the republic, they have a sworn oath to protect the republic, so he had no choice but to be in the clone wars.

Betrayal? How? They are fighting droids so it's not like their killing living things. Throughout the war Yoda says the force we shall meditate on, or the force shall guide us, or the force shall give us the answer. At least Yoda did something. He tried to stop the dark side while if Zao was leader the he would have just let the Sith rule the galaxy without so much as a skirmish and the universe woudl have just been ruled by the Sith with no one to fight back.

Well that would interest me if Yoda did any unwise things. Yoda is most likely the second wisest character(mortal)after Luke Skywalker.

No order 66 was made by Darth Sidious through manipulation and clouding the Jedi's vision.

Or maybe he just wasn't found? Also if they found him they would have killed him because he practiced the force.

Yoda beats Zao in every category. Except making soup.

as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice. He could have chosen NOT to have gotten involved in the clone wars. He could have also allowed any Jedi who were consciousness objectors to opt-out. Yoda could have personally left the order and followed Zao's example and/or recommended Jedis not participate.


Yoda did NOT make that choice. Zao did. and left the Jedi order. and Zao made his choice based on wisdom.

did you read what Zao said to Tholme?

Jedi have a choice. Zao stated as a Jedi he cannot participate in the clone wars.

was Zao a jedi general? if not how can you say Yoda had no choice?

Yoda could have followed Zao's example and left and meditate on the force on Dagobah

Originally posted by redpill
as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice. He could have chosen NOT to have gotten involved in the clone wars. He could have also allowed any Jedi who were consciousness objectors to opt-out. Yoda could have personally left the order and followed Zao's example and/or recommended Jedis not participate.


Yoda did NOT make that choice. Zao did. and left the Jedi order. and Zao made his choice based on wisdom.

did you read what Zao said to Tholme?

Jedi have a choice. Zao stated as a Jedi he cannot participate in the clone wars.

was Zao a jedi general? if not how can you say Yoda had no choice?

Yoda could have followed Zao's example and left and meditate on the force on Dagobah

So you and Zao agree that Yoda had no choice but to enter the war. Finally.

No he didn't. Jedi serve the republic. Republic says you're in the war, then you're in the war. Jedi are the keepers and protectors of the republic, of the Galaxy, so by leaving the Jedi they aren't doing their job. Seems like Zao failed his job.

What choice? Yoda had no choice.

It doesn't matter. Yoda had no choice. Yoda is the wisest and that's the end of it.

Zao fell down on the job. The Jedi are bound to the Republic. They had no choice.

No Zal was not a Jedi general. It's very easy. Yoda is the leader of the Jedi order, the order that was employed basically to the republic. They served it. They had to enter the war.

Yoda is wiser. End of story.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So you and Zao agree that Yoda had no choice but to enter the war. Finally.

No he didn't. Jedi serve the republic. Republic says you're in the war, then you're in the war. Jedi are the keepers and protectors of the republic, of the Galaxy, so by leaving the Jedi they aren't doing their job. Seems like Zao failed his job.

What choice? Yoda had no choice.

It doesn't matter. Yoda had no choice. Yoda is the wisest and that's the end of it.

Zao fell down on the job. The Jedi are bound to the Republic. They had no choice.

No Zal was not a Jedi general. It's very easy. Yoda is the leader of the Jedi order, the order that was employed basically to the republic. They served it. They had to enter the war.

Yoda is wiser. End of story.

I don't agree Yoda could have entered the war.

there are many ways the Yoda could have had the jedi serve teh republic that do not involve war. as diplomats as auxilaries as healers as peace keepers and as pacifists

Wisdom also involves insight and discernment. Yoda did not discern any problems with serving a corrupted sith-led republic, even after Dooku warned obi wan.

Zao's insight and discernment surpasses Yoda in that he clearly saw the republic was corrupt and not worth serving.

Zao is therefore wiser

Originally posted by redpill
I don't agree Yoda could have entered the war.

there are many ways the Yoda could have had the jedi serve teh republic that do not involve war. as diplomats as auxilaries as healers as peace keepers and as pacifists

Wisdom also involves insight and discernment. Yoda did not discern any problems with serving a corrupted sith-led republic, even after Dooku warned obi wan.

Zao's insight and discernment surpasses Yoda in that he clearly saw the republic was corrupt and not worth serving.

Zao is therefore wiser

Yea you do since you said Zao clearly showed Yoda had no choice.

No there weren't. In all ways possible that were legal I, they do everything the senate and the chancellor say unless it,comes down to their personal traditions like inducting new members. Other than that they are servants of the republic, the protectors and the war was to protect and preserve the republic so they had no choice.

Yoda had those two. Anakin Mace and Obi wan and in some cases Palaptine(fake) went to,Yoda for,advice and his insight, he urged everyone to meditate on their problems and especially Anakin and he watched over the Jedi. Like Yoda said, "joined the Sith Dooku has now. Lies, deceit, and trickery, are his ways now". So why would you trust anything you say especially about someone who runs the same government you protect?

Yoda surpasses every Jedi except Luke skywalker in wisdom. Yoda is truly the wisest of all with the exception of Luke and the ones.

Yoda wins. End of story.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yea you do since you said Zao clearly showed Yoda had no choice.

No there weren't. In all ways possible that were legal I, they do everything the senate and the chancellor say unless it,comes down to their personal traditions like inducting new members. Other than that they are servants of the republic, the protectors and the war was to protect and preserve the republic so they had no choice.

Yoda had those two. Anakin Mace and Obi wan and in some cases Palaptine(fake) went to,Yoda for,advice and his insight, he urged everyone to meditate on their problems and especially Anakin and he watched over the Jedi. Like Yoda said, "joined the Sith Dooku has now. Lies, deceit, and trickery, are his ways now". So why would you trust anything you say especially about someone who runs the same government you protect?

Yoda surpasses every Jedi except Luke skywalker in wisdom. Yoda is truly the wisest of all with the exception of Luke and the ones.

Yoda wins. End of story.

what i said was

as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice.

not Yoda did NOT have a choice.

Yoda could have foreseen the damage to the Jedi order's reputation and the risk it puts its members by having its members serve as generals, as opposed to diplomats, peace keeprs, and healers.

why serve only the republic? aren't separatists sentient beings also deserving of respect and healing from the jedi?

Originally posted by redpill
what i said was

as Zao clearly shows

Yoda had a choice.

not Yoda did NOT have a choice.

Yoda could have foreseen the damage to the Jedi order's reputation and the risk it puts its members by having its members serve as generals, as opposed to diplomats, peace keeprs, and healers.

why serve only the republic? aren't separatists sentient beings also deserving of respect and healing from the jedi?

Oh well the way you type I'm not used to. I'm used to everything you mean for that point being on one line then move on to the next. However it doesn't matter, Yoda is wiser deal with it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Oh well the way you type I'm not used to. I'm used to everything you mean for that point being on one line then move on to the next. However it doesn't matter, Yoda is wiser deal with it.

by what standard? yoda's wisdom resulted in the total destruction of the jedi order by a subverted sith led republic.

zao saw the republic was corrupt, and that jedi should not serve as generals.

thats wisdom.

and what about jedi obligations to separatists sentients? yoda clearly had jedi serving only the republic with no regard for separatists.

Originally posted by redpill
by what standard? yoda's wisdom resulted in the total destruction of the jedi order by a subverted sith led republic.

zao saw the republic was corrupt, and that jedi should not serve as generals.

thats wisdom.

and what about jedi obligations to separatists sentients? yoda clearly had jedi serving only the republic with no regard for separatists.

The fact that fact files say Yoda is wiser. Yoda is wiser. End of story.

Yusanis Zeilon is secretly Redpill

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The fact that fact files say Yoda is wiser. Yoda is wiser. End of story.

Are people (i.e. redpill) really arguing here that Yoda isn't the wisest Jedi Master, kek?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The fact that fact files say Yoda is wiser. Yoda is wiser. End of story. and how did fact files arrive at that conclusion?

yoda's decision resulted in the perversion of several jedi such as pong krell and quinlan vos and anakin skywalker and the turning of public opinion against the jedi and the total destruction of the order and the ascension of the sith.even after he saw this in a vision.

some wisdom

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Are people (i.e. redpill) really arguing here that Yoda isn't the wisest Jedi Master, kek? zao refused to fight for the corrupt republic. he has shown greater wisdom than yoda

Originally posted by redpill
zao refused to fight for the corrupt republic. he has shown greater wisdom than yoda
That wasn't really Yoda's choice, last time I checked.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That wasn't really Yoda's choice, last time I checked.

he was grand master of the order. he had choice.

if he wanted to he could have the jedi serve the separatists against the republic.

or serve as healers or diplomats or the red cross providing food and medical supplies.

BTW redpill, you never answered my question.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That wasn't really Yoda's choice, last time I checked.
Yoda wasn't the dictator of the Jedi Order. He didn't really do anything without the approval of the council.

He was the leader of an Order who's motto is "the guardians of peace and justice in the Galactic Republic."

One could argue the militarization of the Jedi was a sign of lack of wisdom, but provide proof it was Yoda who did it.

Originally posted by Aurbere
BTW redpill, you never answered my question. i forget what was ur ?

Originally posted by redpill
he was grand master of the order. he had choice.

if he wanted to he could have the jedi serve the separatists against the republic.

or serve as healers or diplomats or the red cross providing food and medical supplies.

The Separatists were in league with the Sith. You're basically saying that Yoda could have had the Jedi ally themselves with their sworn enemy for no reason.

And the Jedi did serve as both healers and diplomats. You see this so many times in the Republic comics.

Originally posted by redpill
i forget what was ur ?

Originally posted by Aurbere
I'm aware of what the butterfly effect is. But as has been said before, that changes only one thing: How the Jedi die. They would still be eradicated no matter what path was taken.

You have yet to prove that Zao is wiser than Yoda based on this philosophy. At best you can say they are equally wise. But unlike Zao, Yoda actually did something to stop the rise of the dark side. Zao was perfectly content to let darkness win. How is that wise?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yoda wasn't the dictator of the Jedi Order. He didn't really do anything without the approval of the council.

He was the leader of an Order who's motto is "the guardians of peace and justice in the Galactic Republic."

One could argue the militarization of the Jedi was a sign of lack of wisdom, but provide proof it was Yoda who did it.

yoda should have used wisdom to persuade the order to follow a different path than the one they actually took which directly led to their complete and total destruction.

Originally posted by Aurbere


oh iirc did u get a chance to re-read the republic issues w/ zao in his discussion with tholme?

my reply to your answer makes use of that conversation

Originally posted by redpill
yoda should have used wisdom to persuade the order to follow a different path than the one they actually took which directly led to their complete and total destruction.
Prove it was Yoda's choice / could do anything about the militarization of Jedi.

Originally posted by redpill
yoda should have used wisdom to persuade the order to follow a different path than the one they actually took which directly led to their complete and total destruction. Yoda was quite awful.

Originally posted by redpill
oh iirc did u get a chance to re-read the republic issues w/ zao in his discussion with tholme?

my reply to your answer makes use of that conversation

Don't have them on me, so just explain.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Are people (i.e. redpill) really arguing here that Yoda isn't the wisest Jedi Master, kek? That's the best part is he was the wisest of that order. That's why they were decimated.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Prove it was Yoda's choice / could do anything about the militarization of Jedi. as grand master yoda could have simply persuaded the jedi to follow a different path.

as in a speech. even mace windu defers to yoda's "wisdom"

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's the best part is he was the wisest of that order. That's why they were decimated. strictly speaking zao left the order

Originally posted by redpill
as grand master yoda could have simply persuaded the jedi to follow a different path.

as in a speech. even mace windu defers to yoda's "wisdom"
He would try to persuade the Jedi to abandon their duties to the Galactic Republic that they held for 20,000 years?

Let's see how that works out for him. It's not like Yoda wanted / supported the war. He really had no choice.