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http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html

Foxnews blames Obama In 3...2...1...

Well this is.... something.

I don't know how this'll go. Will things escalate? Be talked out? Will it affect the activities of either in the area?

Not something we need to deal with at this point.

This turkey obviously took vengeance for all of his kin that will be eaten this Thursday.

Originally posted by Surtur
This turkey obviously took vengeance for all of his kin that will be eaten this Thursday.

Russia doesn't celebrate Thanksgiving though, because Russia doesn't have anything to be thankful for.

Of course they do, Putin's incredible physique is more then enough. Homeless people in Russia do not wear coats, even in winter. They keep warm by looking at pictures of a shirtless Putin.

This was intentional, imo. I've seen a video where the Syrian/Turkish rebels were cursing the dead Russian pilot and shouting "Allahu Akbar!" and "Mujahideen!". Those back-stabbing Islamists were never really allies of Russia.

One comment in the video said:
"So the plane was "clearly" over turkish airspace, but the ejected pilots landed at ISIS camp in Syria?? Sounds about right......"

Something's not right here...

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
This was intentional, imo. I've seen a video where the Syrian/Turkish rebels were cursing the dead Russian pilot and shouting "Allahu Akbar!" and "Mujahideen!". Those back-stabbing Islamists were never really allies of Russia.

One comment in the video said:
"So the plane was "clearly" over turkish airspace, but the ejected pilots landed at ISIS camp in Syria?? Sounds about right......"

Something's not right here...
Well, nobody's claiming that the jets were deep in Turkish territory. A jet could be a full mile over the border, get shot down, and then crashland a mile or two in Syrian territory.

I don't know the specifics yet so I can't ascertain whether the Turks or Russians are telling the truth about where the plane was when it was shot down, but I believe the Turks that at least at some point the jet violated Turkish airspace. Russians are finally paying the price for their constant prodding of NATO territory.

Just hoping this doesn't escalate....

Russia won't do anything here beyond severing diplomatic ties with Turkey, and even that might not go that far. They've been pushing airspace borders for a long time and Turkey is making a declaration that it won't be intimidated. Turkey likely has a clean shot here- or at least, it's impossible to show they they did not- and Russia's already too invested in troublesome areas to do more than protest. They'll make noise to avoid losing face is all.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Russia doesn't celebrate Thanksgiving though, because Russia doesn't have anything to be thankful for.

Ha

All this will do is further inhibit a large coalition to defeat Isis. Considering Russia needs that airspace and Turkey won't give it to them.

Good analysis here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34914375

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
This was intentional, imo. I've seen a video where the Syrian/Turkish rebels were cursing the dead Russian pilot and shouting "Allahu Akbar!" and "Mujahideen!". Those back-stabbing Islamists were never really allies of Russia.


It's not really a backstab if they were never allies, was it? Russia supports the Syrian regime, who Turkey doesn't...

It's just both should have a bigger enemy in Isis/Daesh, but they are basically on opposite sides of a proxy war before that. One that is in the best interests of both sides to not extent to a more direct one.


Also, Turkey aren't political Islamists (i.e. they have a secular, not islamist, state).

'Backstab' is taken from what Putin said and is rhetoric for for Putin's domestic audience- moral betrayal (genuine or otherwise) always plays well with the Russian crowd.

(that said, if this sort of thing happened to the US, I think they'd play that card as well- Russia, meanwhile, does have a few centuries of constantly being invaded to make it so paranoid)

Shit, Russian marine killed while conducting search for downed pilots.

http://sputniknews.com/world/20151124/1030686711/su24-rescue-syria-russia.html

the turkey rebellion has begun.

though, i don't know why they're starting with Russia... they don't even celebrate Thanksgiving.

damnit. the joke was already made.

you people should know that corny jokes are my thing.

http://i.imgur.com/0RQnIxx.jpg

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
http://i.imgur.com/0RQnIxx.jpg
crylaugh0

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
http://i.imgur.com/0RQnIxx.jpg







That's pretty much right on. Who can blame Putin?

The details aren't even out yet. Some say the pilot was warned several times others say the pilot only had a 2 to 3 seconds before it was shot down.

Turkey pretty much pulled a ***** move because they know they're backed by the EU. Putin seems reasonable enough to know that attacking Turkey will only backfire on him. I don't think he wants Russia vs world.

The narrative I've heard, that makes the most sense to me, is that both parties are more or less at fault. Russia has a history of not giving a **** about the restricted airspace of other countries and has been violating them for decades. Turkey on the other hand has had a long-standing rivalry with Russia and, as mentioned above, knows that it's backed by the EU and can afford to be petty.

The most likely scenario is that a Russian plane violated Turkey airspace- not seriously enough to warrant any real concern but enough to technically absolve Turkey of any blowback from the EU- and Turkey jumped on it as a show of force and to flip the bird at Russia.

And in the end... I really have no sympathy for Russia. The comic above is supposed to be a diss on Obama but frankly the only person who looks like an idiot in this situation is Putin. Russia has been a bully and a maverick for the entirety of their operations in the ME and this incident is an example of the chickens coming home to roost. If a dog sticks its nose in enough holes it's going to find a porcupine eventually. Hopefully the Bear will show a little discretion from hereon out.

LOL. Obama isn't half the leader (or man) that Putin is.

How true is this?

Russian airstrike hits Turkish Convoy

http://www.dailysabah.com/syrian-crisis/2015/11/25/russian-airstrikes-target-aid-convoy-in-northwestern-syrian-town-of-azaz-7-killed

Well, hoping this doesn't escalate things further.... >_<

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
The details aren't even out yet. Some say the pilot was warned several times others say the pilot only had a 2 to 3 seconds before it was shot down.

Turkey pretty much pulled a ***** move because they know they're backed by the EU. Putin seems reasonable enough to know that attacking Turkey will only backfire on him. I don't think he wants Russia vs world. Originally posted by Tzeentch
The narrative I've heard, that makes the most sense to me, is that both parties are more or less at fault. Russia has a history of not giving a **** about the restricted airspace of other countries and has been violating them for decades. Turkey on the other hand has had a long-standing rivalry with Russia and, as mentioned above, knows that it's backed by the EU and can afford to be petty.

The most likely scenario is that a Russian plane violated Turkey airspace- not seriously enough to warrant any real concern but enough to technically absolve Turkey of any blowback from the EU- and Turkey jumped on it as a show of force and to flip the bird at Russia.

And in the end... I really have no sympathy for Russia. The comic above is supposed to be a diss on Obama but frankly the only person who looks like an idiot in this situation is Putin. Russia has been a bully and a maverick for the entirety of their operations in the ME and this incident is an example of the chickens coming home to roost. If a dog sticks its nose in enough holes it's going to find a porcupine eventually. Hopefully the Bear will show a little discretion from hereon out.

I know you guys say Turkey is backed by the EU, but that's not really correct, Turkey is backed by NATO, which includes the US as well.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Obama isn't half the leader (or man) that Putin is. Move to Russia then, you commie.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I know you guys say Turkey is backed by the EU, but that's not really correct, Turkey is backed by NATO, which includes the US as well. Don't correct me in public, you ******** **** *** ***** ****ing **** ***** ****.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Obama isn't half the leader (or man) that Putin is. Yeah, getting shit on by Turkey and becoming a global laughing-stock is pretty manly, tbh fam.

This will turn into a diplomatic mess of epic proportions, but beyond that I don't suspect alot will happen. This time Putin just messed with the guy that has the same view on the world as himself, power isn't something that is given, it's something you take.

Originally posted by Star428
LOL. Obama isn't half the leader (or man) that Putin is.
So many American conservatives practically screaming for Putin's cock. It's embarrassing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34941093

Turkey is pushing this slightly harder than I thought.

The analysis now is that if the jet flew over Turkish airspace, it was pretty momentary- most countries would, at most, send a couple of planes to escort an intruder out for that (In fact, the UK has done that once or twice- Russia often probes UK airspace at the North Sea).

Literally speaking, Turkey has the right to fire for that (and to be fair, they have long openly announced that they would do just that), but practically speaking, NATO must be pretty pissed that they've done it, particularly as NATO also has to stand up for Turkey now.

But Russia isn't going to get much sympathy for complaining about Turkey pushing the boundaries of the rules here because that's exactly what Russia itself does all the time. It's that same rule-pushing that has Russia bombing Turkish allies in Syria- Turkey claims they didn't know the plane was Russian but that's not easy to believe. Shooting down a Russian bomber is a statement of support to the Turcomen tribes they have pledged to protect.

So, then it all pans out as it has been so far- Russia protests strongly but can't do much; economic sanctions go up but Russia doesn't have that much leverage there.

Turkey could ride this one out with a quiet smile- but I'm less sure why they'd choose to escalate with that 'don't play with fire' comment at Russia. Turkey's already won this round of politics- they should leave it there.

I guess it's all talk in the end.

If Turkey has indeed told them repeatedly in the past not to violate their air space and then Russia still violated their air space then Russia brought this upon itself. It's not Turkey's fault they violated their airspace.

I am sure some people are pissed, but then I'm guessing Turkey is also pissed that Russia violated their airspace despite being repeatedly told not to do so.

Putin seems to think he can do whatever he wants and I hate to say it but..somebody needed to nip that little notion in the butt.

In other news "Erdogan" sounds like the name of a dragon.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So many American conservatives practically screaming for Putin's cock. It's embarrassing.

Yeah, I've noticed this myself. I wonder if they're aware what it really says about them.

Originally posted by Surtur
If Turkey has indeed told them repeatedly in the past not to violate their air space and then Russia still violated their air space then Russia brought this upon itself. It's not Turkey's fault they violated their airspace.

I am sure some people are pissed, but then I'm guessing Turkey is also pissed that Russia violated their airspace despite being repeatedly told not to do so.

Putin seems to think he can do whatever he wants and I hate to say it but..somebody needed to nip that little notion in the butt.

In other news "Erdogan" sounds like the name of a dragon.

There's pissed and there's lethal force, and therein lies the dispute.

Like I said, most countries just escort intruders out. This is a spirit/letter of the law thing. In this particular case, even if thr Turks have the truth of this one, the Russians would have been in Turkish airspace for less than half a minute.

No-one really gets kudos for shooting a retreating target in the back. That's why I'm surprised Turkey is engaging with Putin's word war.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Turkey flipped the finger at Russia's non-compliance to airspace laws.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There's pissed and there's lethal force, and therein lies the dispute.

Like I said, most countries just escort intruders out. This is a spirit/letter of the law thing. In this particular case, even if thr Turks have the truth of this one, the Russians would have been in Turkish airspace for less than half a minute.

No-one really gets kudos for shooting a retreating target in the back. That's why I'm surprised Turkey is engaging with Putin's word war.

Half a minute or half a second is too much if they've been repeatedly told not to do this. Escorting Russia away doesn't teach them a lesson. This does. Next time they will think twice about doing this and if this situation doesn't cause them to think twice then it just shows Turkey did the right thing anyways.

There should be no word war, just simple truth from Turkey: you came into our airspace, we've repeatedly told you not to, you thought you had the right to do it anyways, you learned a tough lesson.

There should be no kudos, just the simple truth that this wouldn't of happened if they had not violated airspace. They should be glad that their stupid little mistake didn't cost one of their own pilots his life. People who play stupid games tend to get incredibly stupid prizes. How many people need to find this out the hard way? Russia did.

You really should think about what it is worth killing people over. Like I said, letter/spirit.

Incidentally, what would happen next time is that Russia will shoot at the attacking fighters. The jet was not shot down over Turkey, after all.

Yes I do think about what it is worth, and Russia obviously thought it was worth risking the lives of people in order to violate airspace. So that is totally on them, that is the prize they won for this game.

See there shouldn't be a next time and if there is a next time it will just show Turkey was 100% correct. Don't start nothing won't be nothing.

See you have a mixed up viewpoint there that's hard to follow. A shoot down like this is extreme, so you can't remove Turkey's moral responsibility. Most countries would not have done this.

It's not about proving who was 'right'. You need to get a grip of what this situation is- it's nothing to do with a trivial border overfly that no-one would normally care about. It's about Turkey taking any chance it gets to take a shot at Russia over the Turcomen bombings, hiding behind a technicality to legitimise it.

Now, yes, Russia plays that same game of technicalities all the time- fair enough,. But first, two wrongs don't make a right- and the idea that it is ok to kill someone just to make a point of bravado on the ground s that the other side took the risk with the lives is very dodgy, morally- and second, don't mix up what it is you are approving here. You justified the shoot down on the grounds that it would stop Russia doing it again,. This is untrue. It just means Russia will shoot back next time and really there will not be any clear picture of 'who was right', seeing as Turkey already looks like they set this one up and Russia will have a fair claim to defend any of its planes attacked over Syrian territory. And don't be any under illusions here- if it comes to a strategic air conflict between Turkey and Russia, Russia wins.

But the main reason there won't be a next time is that NATO will now be tearing strips off Turkey behind closed doors to tell them to stop doing it.

Turkey have taken their one shot they can get away with.

Russia thinks it can do whatever it wants. If the incident doesn't cause them to think "maybe we shouldn't act like big ol pieces of shit and violate airspace" then they deserve everything they get.

Like I said, two things will happen: Russia shockingly begins to act like they have a brain and maybe learn a lesson and don't do this shit. But Russia is like the dipshit kid who keeps touching a hot stove, burning himself, and then touching the hot stove again. So if this doesn't teach them a lesson it will show they are too stupid to ever learn any lessons.

They either show the world evidence they have a brain, or they show the world evidence they lack a brain entirely.

I never said it wasn't extreme. But sometimes with people who think they can do whatever they want you need to be extreme with them. Of course it's not merely over borders, I don't think anyone thinks it is...but that is what this harkens back to: this country has to of known certain other countries would take any legitimate chance they could to take a shot a them so why do they provide a huge opportunity for said shot? That is like if I'm deathly allergic to bee's and I then spray myself with bee pheromones or something in order to attract a bunch of bee's.

But as I said- this won't do anything of the sort. It will just mean next time the Turkish fighters will be shot down- though in fact they won't be, because they won't dare attack once Russia is escorting its ground attack craft. If it comes to who can push at the borders the hardest, Russia wins that game as well.

It won't change anyone's opinion of Russia and standing up to the bully does not work when the bully can crush you. Like I said, it was never about that anyway, It was a show of support by Turkey for its allies.

As to why Russia does it- because Russia thrives on conflict scenarios. This plays well for them; they get to play the betrayed victim.

But as I said more then once: the whole Russia learning a lesson thing was just one possibility. They either learn a lesson or they don't learn one. Either option speaks volumes about them, correct?

Do you think escorting them back would of prevented this from ever happening again? Or do you think there is even the slightest, tiny iny weeny chance Russia would take this as a sign of a weakness, see it as an exercise in how far they could dip their toe in..and then make plans to later on try to dip said toe in even further?

If you think that is all a possibility then I would then ask how many times they should be allowed to violate airspace consequence free? Remember now you called Russia a bully and we all know what happens when you let bullies get away with whatever they want.

I don't think it makes any difference to how Russia sees it at all. It just gives them the excuse to arm up further.

There never would have been an escort because the Russians- assuming they were there at all, which even the US is not being committal about- were only there a few seconds.

But again I ask if you think it is at all possible if Russia got away with this consequence free that it would cause them to think in the future maybe they can violate airspace again, this time for a bit longer?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don't think it makes any difference to how Russia sees it at all. It just gives them the excuse to arm up further.

There never would have been an escort because the Russians- assuming they were there at all, which even the US is not being committal about- was only there a few seconds.

Hey Ush! Posted an incident about Russian bombers hitting a Turkish convoy.

Was this true? Or just more news propaganda?

I'm worried about further escalation.

And again I give the same answer- it doesn't change what they think at all.

It's hard to imagine Russia wouldn't see this and think they could take even further liberties next time, and the time after that, and after that. That is classic bully behavior, they see how much shit they can stir up and constantly up the ante.

It's also classic bully behavior to act SHOCKED when someone retaliates against your bullying.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Hey Ush! Posted an incident about Russian bombers hitting a Turkish convoy.

Was this true? Or just more news propaganda?

I'm worried about further escalation.

Russia is bombing all over the place there- but I think calling this a 'Turkish' convoy is not really the situation. It's nothing the Russians were not already doing and nothing the Turks care about more than they already do- which is to say, they're pissed in general over the Russian bombing campaign.

But this wasn't some sort of retaliation.

Originally posted by Surtur
It's hard to imagine Russia wouldn't see this and think they could take even further liberties next time, and the time after that, and after that. That is classic bully behavior, they see how much shit they can stir up and constantly up the ante.

It's also classic bully behavior to act SHOCKED when someone retaliates against your shitty behavior.

They do it to measure response. They don't need to measure any further- after all, if they genuinely invaded Turkish airspace, the Turks would have had a much cleaner shot.

Now they have a very good answer and a good excuse for militarising further. But they can't do anything if Turkey only does it once, which will likely be the case. So Turkey doesn't really achieve much in the way you mean it.

I also don't think Russia ever really needs an excuse to arm themselves better. If people don't give them a "legit" reason they will just fabricate one or blow some incident way out of proportion.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
They do it to measure response. They don't need to measure any further- after all, if they genuinely invaded Turkish airspace, the Turks would have had a much cleaner shot.

Now they have a very good answer and a good excuse for militarising further. But they can't do anything if Turkey only does it once, which will likely be the case. So Turkey doesn't really achieve much in the way you mean it.

So then why is nobody asking these people why they feel they have the right to violate airspace to "measure responses" ? Has anyone just ever flat out asked them that? Has anyone actually called them on their bullshit?

That's not true. Russia has an important propaganda narrative here. If Russia had started putting fighters into the air campaign, they'd look ridiculous because their targets have no aeroplanes to hit, so the only reason could have been to shoot at NATO planes, which would have been a huge deal.

But now a NATO plane fired first. Russia can now put the fighters in.

Not that Russia actually wants to pick a fight here but they'd love a chance to clip Turkey's wings a bit. No pun intendd.

Originally posted by Surtur
So then why is nobody asking these people why they feel they have the right to violate airspace to "measure responses" ? Has anyone just ever flat out asked them that? Has anyone actually called them on their bullshit?

What's the point? You won't get a straight answer and you'd just end up needlessly increasing tensions.

They do it all the time:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33722660

Just part of the game.

All you ever have to do to beat Russia is wait. They're fundamentally weak, long-term.

But then what does it say when asking a country that is acting ridiculous why they are acting ridiculous would increase tension?

Have they literally given NO reason as to why they violated airspace? Not even "pilot was lost" or anything?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
No pun intendd.

LIES!

Pun intended. Pun def intended!

Every time they get caught red handed then yes, they say navigational error.

Well hey maybe it was a mechanical error that shot down their jet

Russia wants to treat the entire world like mushrooms.

Here's another:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32740942

Whacking great strategic bombers flying around with their transponders turned off just north of Scotland- that's pretty bloody lost, in the sense of hundreds of miles or more.

They specialise in taking the piss like that- but it's really something done from a position of weakness.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
LIES!

Pun intended. Pun def intended!

Maybe a little.

If it were solely up to you how would you of punished Russia for this airspace violation?

Turkey has screwed themselves with this idiotic move. Not only have they lost out on a huge oil venture, but they are going to lose huge contracts in Russia on current and future projects, and they will no longer get food from Russia.

What a bunch of idiots. Of coarse its to be expected since Turkey helps ISIS.

Crossing into other countries territories is nothing uncommon, be it land,air, or water. Usually they're escorted out with guns pointed at them, though.

@Surtur, I agree that Russia is a regional bully (even if most of the time they follow the law, from what I've seen), but the USA is a global bully. So I hope you're equally outraged when you see this kind of event.

If we violated an airspace of someone who had repeatedly told us not to and we got shot down I'd have no problem with that, we brought it on ourselves. The more power any one nation has the less you can afford to let them get away with whatever they want.

Though about navigational errors..can these things be proven? Don't planes come with equipment that records malfunctions or something? So if Russia claims this was a navigational error shouldn't they be able to prove it?

The Turkish president is imbed with ISIS. I would not be surprised if him and all his family winds up dead for crossing Putin.

They even shot and killed the pilots..

What a bunch of tools.

Only a national idiot like the turkish president could be so foolish.

I am going to love seeing them pay for this.

If Putin killed the guy and his family over it then it would just show Putin is just as bad if not worse.

If they truly had a navigational error I'd love to see them prove this.

It doesn't matter if it was or was not, they had no business killing the pilots after ejecting. Thats grounds for war.

Originally posted by Surtur
If we violated an airspace of someone who had repeatedly told us not to and we got shot down I'd have no problem with that, we brought it on ourselves. The more power any one nation has the less you can afford to let them get away with whatever they want.

Though about navigational errors..can these things be proven? Don't planes come with equipment that records malfunctions or something? So if Russia claims this was a navigational error shouldn't they be able to prove it?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/asia/us-china-south-china-sea/

Well, that would be a grave mistake. It's better to just escort them out.

Look at these pieces of shit gloating after they killed them.

https://www.rt.com/news/323237-video-dead-russian-pilot/

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/asia/us-china-south-china-sea/

Well, that would be a grave mistake. It's better to just escort them out.

I'm not saying it would be my first choice, just that I wouldn't be necessarily outraged if we violated the airspace of someone and they responded. Keep in mind the context as well, as apparently Russia has been told before not to do this. So I am thinking of a similar situation, not something where the very first violation should result in an attack.

Then again I am no pilot..maybe it is a super complicated thing to stay within certain borders.


Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
It doesn't matter if it was or was not, they had no business killing the pilots after ejecting. Thats grounds for war.

Yeah I'm not sure why they killed the pilots after they ejected. You'd think arresting them would of been more beneficial.

Did they say why they took out the pilots?

Because they are savages..isn't that obvious?

But then I would ask if you think Russia has done anything during Putin's reign that would be considered savage?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Did those pilots deserve to get gunned down like dogs after being blown out of the sky? Don't blame the pilots for Russians total actions.

Putin seems to follow international law, though. Or at least tries to hide his intentions behind it.

He's helping the Syrian government because they asked for help, unlike the US that just started to bomb in Syria (sovereign land) without official anything.

Putin knows he will be scrutinized for his actions internationally and he loves to keep his name clean as much as possible and go by the law.

As for Obama bombing Syria. Well he's Obama, he can do whatever he wants without fear of any critizism internationally.

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
Putin seems to follow international law, though. Or at least tries to hide his intentions behind it.



Sure he does. Just like when he broke the treaty and invaded Ukraine. That was all legal.

**** Turkey.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Putin knows he will be scrutinized for his actions internationally and he loves to keep his name clean as much as possible and go by the law.

As for Obama bombing Syria. Well he's Obama, he can do whatever he wants without fear of any critizism internationally.
Well, pretty much.
But people will remember in the future, so that's not good.
Originally posted by Star428
Sure he does. Just like when he broke the treaty and invaded Ukraine. That was all legal.

The government (sovereign government) was being overthrown by neo-nazis. Helping the legal holder of power who were elected democratically isn't illegal as far as I know.

Originally posted by Van Hohenheim
Well, pretty much.
But people will remember in the future, so that's not good.





People seem to forget things pretty quick though especially if it involves Obama. He is prolly going to go down as the greatest president of all time in some peoples book. And its hard to convince some of the die hard media moguls otherwise much less the general public.

The average citizen is almost completely oblivious to anything that is going on in the world. We here are a select few I feel.

Well damn, look at this.

Appears this was pre planned

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-27/top-us-air-defense-commander-turkey%E2%80%99s-shootdown-russian-jet-%E2%80%9Chad-be-pre-planned%E2%80%9D

Syria is now a no fly zone for the US and Turkey.

http://debka.com/article/25048/Russian-S-400-missiles-turn-most-of-Syria-into-no-fly-zone-halt-US-air-strikes-

Preplanned, so how did they know Russia would violate their airspace?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Putin knows he will be scrutinized for his actions internationally and he loves to keep his name clean as much as possible and go by the law.

As for Obama bombing Syria. Well he's Obama, he can do whatever he wants without fear of any critizism internationally.

Putin's name is clean in the same way a mob boss who hasn't technically been charged with any crimes is "clean".

Since when did a criminal stop trying to clean his record?

It's legally clean, but there seems to be an odd number of people who were vocal about being opposed to Putin who ended up dead. With Putin of course always vowing to do whatever it takes to find the culprits.

50-100 people with close ties Clintons died within 8 years. They have blood on their hands too. Let's be real here.

Maybe, but there is a difference between being a close tie to someone and actually being an opponent of them and not merely having a death with strange circumstances, but being outright murdered.

The only question that remains is did the people of Russia elect him because of this or in spite of it?

http://nymag.com/news/features/conspiracy-theories/clinton-body-count/

US confirmed they violated Turkish airspace:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-confirms-downed-russian-plane-entered-turkish-airspace-n471481

Now someone in the comments section has claimed Russia told the UN about the flight and the UN should of alerted Turkey. But wait..alerted Turkey about what? I thought this was a navigational "error".

Zero reason to shoot them down regardless when they are helping defeat ISIS. What they did was an act of war.

Hmm, it's almost as if Russia has a problem when a country decides to do whatever the f*ck it wants. Curious.

Shooting down planes that are fighting a common enemy sounds incredibly stupid. It sounds like you really hate Russia.

I don't hate Russia, I just have no sympathy for bullies.

Pilots don't deserve to be shot like dogs after ejecting, end of story.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Shooting down planes that are fighting a common enemy sounds incredibly stupid. It sounds like you really hate Russia.
Ehh, Russia had been bombing Turkmen fighters. Turkey has made no secret of the fact that they consider the Syrian Turkmen unofficial Turkish citizens, so an attack on them is like an attack on Turkey. Russia bombed them anyway, and lo and behold, sometimes there are consequences to Russia's brand of strongarm diplomacy.

I feel bad for the pilot, but not for Russia. They aren't there to fight ISIS (maybe they are now that ISIS killed dozens of Russian citizens), they're there to prop up an awful dictatorship.

Yea I understand his contempt for Russia and yours but the pilots being gunned down like dogs in unacceptable.

The pilots don't deserve to be shot like dogs this is true. Now whoever ordered them to violate the airspace, on the other hand..

Oh woops sorry navigational error, there was no order I'm sure Turkey would be more then willing to help Russia test out their navigation systems so this error never happens again.

After all..that is the only way Russia will ever violate airspace again in the future right? Accidentally.

Let's all just agree that all sides are in the wrong. If we start placing blame we'll just go in circles.

The question here is: what should be do about it? Or what this means for international affairs?

What should be do about it? Nothing, at least not take military action on one dead pilot.
Russia should fix the error and evade these types of transgressions and Turkey should think critically of what a nuke in their backyard could look like.


What will happen? I think Putin has more to gain if he does nothing. So I don't think he'll take aggressive actions, for now.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Yea I understand his contempt for Russia and yours but the pilots being gunned down like dogs in unacceptable.
Okay. Turkish soldiers weren't the ones who shot him. Blame that on rebels without any real accountability to anyone.

And Russia is as much at fault as Turkey is for playing a game of brinksmanship with a country that has intense pride issues and a centuries' old bone to pick with Russia.

Erdogan is a complete basket case/extremist/nutjob/murderer and a threat to the west/world. I hope Russia retaliates.