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Opinions atm?

Feats wise, Vader looks more impressive but I think Plagueis should still be above him.

Vader. More impressive all around.

Vader can take this, IMO.

Vader wins in a brutal fight.

F*** you all tbh

Vader

Good fight. But leaning towards Vader.

Did I miss something? I thought the general consensus was that Plagueis > Vader?

Plagueis > Vader is the correct answer if your approach isn't hurdur lift all the things

Originally posted by Sinious
F*** you all tbh

Originally posted by ILS
Plagueis > Vader is the correct answer if your approach isn't hurdur lift all the things

Masters of paper's feats. At this moment, I feel that Vader is really overhyped. After all, ESB Luke was able to hit his armor. ROTJ Luke bested him. ANH Kenobi was comfortably able to hold his own. Kanan and Ezra combined were able to Force push him (doesn't matter if he was discracted, he shouldn't be). In the Legends Dark Woman who past her prime, and few other mid-level Jedi were a match for him.

No way that he's going to beat someone of Plagueis' caliber.

Originally posted by McP
Masters of paper's feats. At this moment, I feel that Vader is really overhyped. After all, ESB Luke was able to hit his armor. ROTJ Luke bested him. ANH Kenobi was comfortably able to hold his own. Kanan and Ezra combined were able to Force push him (doesn't matter if he was discracted, he shouldn't be). In the Legends Dark Woman who past her prime, and few other mid-level Jedi were a match for him.

No way that he's going to beat someone of Plagueis' caliber. A lot of these points I have already previously made but don't expect people to listen to facts to stand in the way of their preconceived Star Wars hierarchy.

Plagueis has been rated above Vader for the longest time so I fail to see how this hierarchy can be preconceived.

Originally posted by McP
Masters of paper's feats. At this moment, I feel that Vader is really overhyped. After all, ESB Luke was able to hit his armor. ROTJ Luke bested him. ANH Kenobi was comfortably able to hold his own. Kanan and Ezra combined were able to Force push him (doesn't matter if he was discracted, he shouldn't be). In the Legends Dark Woman who past her prime, and few other mid-level Jedi were a match for him.

No way that he's going to beat someone of Plagueis' caliber.
So kekworthy you got quan's approval.

Originally posted by Trocity
Plagueis has been rated above Vader for the longest time so I fail to see how this hierarchy can be preconceived. Disney's canon takes precedence and has clouded people's opinions on how to think for themselves.

IMO any sith with force lightening can grievously injure vader and that includes dooku and nihl and talon

Vader.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Vader.

if plageuis can really bring people back from dead and create life his force power far surpasses vader who can't even heal himself in his suit

if sidious was speaking truthfully about his master's power level

Originally posted by redpill
IMO any sith with force lightening can grievously injure vader and that includes dooku and nihl and talon

http://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xk97h0somoGE80/giphy.gif

>Implying Plagueis Midichlorian manipulation is actual useful in battle
>Implying Plageuis himself didn't use a Transpirator mask, despite his vaunted ability to heal himself
>Implying Sidious and Plagueis together didn't perform the ritual over months that created life

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
>Implying Plagueis Midichlorian manipulation is actual useful in battle
>Implying Plageuis himself didn't use a Transpirator mask, despite his vaunted ability to heal himself
>Implying Sidious and Plagueis together didn't perform the ritual over months that created life

that's what sidious said.

speaks to plaguis mastery of the force

if somehow obi wan got plaguis burnt to a crisp and limbless plageius should be able to create an entirely new body for himself something vader could not do using solely the force

Yeah, it's not like Sidious wasn't trying to use fancy rhetoric and the allure of arcane knowledge to play into emotion and incite him to the Darkside, right?
And no - Plagueis wouldn't. He couldn't even heal damage done to him by the Maladians and used a Transpirator mask to get around. I doubt he could just create a complex living organism to sustain his essence whenever he wanted, to.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Yeah, it's not like Sidious wasn't trying to use fancy rhetoric and the allure of arcane knowledge to play into emotion and incite him to the Darkside, right?
And no - Plagueis wouldn't. He couldn't even heal damage done to him by the Maladians and used a Transpirator mask to get around. I doubt he could just create a complex living organism to sustain his essence whenever he wanted, to.

are you suggesting that sidious lied?

maybe plaguis was having a bad day.

but as force feats if plageius can keep someone he cares for from dying that obviously is a greater feat than any shown by vader

Vader. Plagueis is definitely powerful, but to me he seems more powerful in areas other than combat.

Originally posted by redpill
are you suggesting that sidious lied?

maybe plaguis was having a bad day.

but as force feats if plageius can keep someone he cares for from dying that obviously is a greater feat than any shown by vader

More lolworthy with every post.

Originally posted by redpill
are you suggesting that sidious lied?

Nah. Plagueis can create life. Just not to the extent you're trying to sell. Read the actual novel, please. That being said - the power isn't useful in battle so really - who cares?
Originally posted by redpill
maybe plaguis was having a bad day.

https://youtu.be/Tkp3611ysHI

Originally posted by redpill
but as force feats if plageius can keep someone he cares for from dying that obviously is a greater feat than any shown by vader

Cade Skywalker can kill, and bring people back from the dead at a whim too via Dark Transfers - while Luke Skywalker can't; does that mean Cade > Luke in Force as well?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Nah. Plagueis can create life. Just not to the extent you're trying to sell. Read the actual novel, please. That being said - the power isn't useful in battle so really - who cares?


https://youtu.be/Tkp3611ysHI



Cade Skywalker can kill, and bring people back from the dead at a whim too via Dark Transfers - while Luke Skywalker can't; does that mean Cade > Luke in Force as well? yeah of course

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/9/93477/4915639-4675599-1819704304-cm-pu.gif

Well redpill I believe there is a little thing called a lightsaber that Vader could use to block Plagueis's Lightning.

Originally posted by redpill
yeah of course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc86ZXFsriM&t=0m33s

Originally posted by quanchi112
A lot of these points I have already previously made but don't expect people to listen to facts to stand in the way of their preconceived Star Wars hierarchy.

That's cause you fail to look at the context of all of those battles/situations.

ES2, why did you PM me then when I PMed back you never opened the PM, lol?

Originally posted by redpill
yeah of course

http://media1.giphy.com/media/6OWIl75ibpuFO/giphy.gif

Originally posted by Trocity
http://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xk97h0somoGE80/giphy.gif

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
ES2, why did you PM me then when I PMed back you never opened the PM, lol?

Never saw it. Never showed you replied.

Hm, strange. mmm

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well redpill I believe there is a little thing called a lightsaber that Vader could use to block Plagueis's Lightning.
Vader could honestly use his bare hands.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hm, strange. mmm That tricky pm system.

That's a little far fetched. Lightsaber yes. Hands? Need to elaborate on that one.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well redpill I believe there is a little thing called a lightsaber that Vader could use to block Plagueis's Lightning.

yeah, plagueis will due a little dueling and when he sees an opening he can zap him

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader could honestly use his bare hands.

why couldnt he block sidious lightening?

His hands were occupied carrying an old man.

Originally posted by redpill
yeah, plagueis will due a little dueling and when he sees an opening he can zap him

Vader's a better deulist than Plagueis though. He's also comparable with force powers. So not seeing where that opening is going to be.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That's a little far fetched. Lightsaber yes. Hands? Need to elaborate on that one.
It's almost like there is some Force power, or rather a group of Force powers that allow you to absorb and transfer energy. It's almost like Vader has absorbed and redirected lighting before. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

And Vader's feats are better than Plagueis'. I'm loling@him only being "comparable."

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vader's a better deulist than Plagueis though. He's also comparable with force powers. So not seeing where that opening is going to be.

doesn't take a whole lot of imagination.

plageuis tells Vader he has the power to bring padme back to life and he promises will do so after Vader lowers his saber. vader says ok and lowers his light saber.

then plageuis blasts vader to ashes.

then he brings padme back to life and kills her.

Originally posted by redpill
doesn't take a whole lot of imagination.

plageuis tells Vader he has the power to bring padme back to life and he promises will do so after Vader lowers his saber. vader says ok and lowers his light saber.

then plageuis blasts vader to ashes.

then he brings padme back to life and kills her.


One word. Fantasy. Vader isn't falling for that fantasy again. Anyway Vader is still better deulist and possibly better force user. Vader wins this with great effort though.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's almost like there is some Force power, or rather a group of Force powers that allow you to absorb and transfer energy. It's almost like Vader has absorbed and redirected lighting before. http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/3024136639.gif

And Vader's feats are better than Plagueis'. I'm loling@him only being "comparable."


His cybernetic hands is what blocks it. He can redirect blaster fire, but the lightning I doubt it.

Vader used barrier against the explosion of one of the largest Imperial munitions bases in the galaxy, Plagueis's lightning isn't doing anything to him.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
His cybernetic hands is what blocks it. He can redirect blaster fire, but the lightning I doubt it.
The things you're saying are legit almost as retarded as what redpill is saying. Vader HAS done it. It's not an opinion. He's done it. He absorbs lighting and redirects it in TFU, with his hands. Why? Because for some reason he knows what Tutaminis is.

Originally posted by carthage
Vader used barrier against the explosion of one of the largest Imperial munitions bases in the galaxy, Plagueis's lightning isn't doing anything to him. explain ROTJ

Originally posted by carthage
Vader used barrier against the explosion of one of the largest Imperial munitions bases in the galaxy, Plagueis's lightning isn't doing anything to him.
scans

Originally posted by redpill
explain ROTJ

Palpatine > Plagueis

That was easy.

Plagueis wins.

Originally posted by ares834
Palpatine > Plagueis

That was easy. Do guys normally greater than the other wait till they are sleeping to kill them. Nah.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do guys normally greater than the other wait till they are sleeping to kill them. Nah. i was going to say just that.

was vader ever afraid of losing his power?

Originally posted by redpill
i was going to say just that.

was vader ever afraid of losing his power? I do not recall if he ever stated so in the films but to me it was obvious he did. It's the Sith way.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do guys normally greater than the other wait till they are sleeping to kill them. Nah.

If you read the novel you would know that Plagueis wasn't asleep.

Edit: Anyway, the two were near equals at the time. Even Plagueis saw them as that.

Originally posted by ares834
If you read the novel you would know that Plagueis wasn't asleep. That isn't canon. In the film he stated his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Weak.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't canon. In the film he stated his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Weak.


In the film he is lying through his teeth and said he taught his apprentice everything he knew...

We're in a Legends forum, Quan.

Originally posted by ares834
In the film he is lying through his teeth and said he taught his apprentice everything he knew... You would have to prove it. Just because Sidious lies that doesn't mean he lies about everything.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
We're in a Legends forum, Quan. I argue canon only.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I argue canon only.
Then why jump into a legends conversation?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Then why jump into a legends conversation? Because I choose to.

Sounds... Quanish.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sounds... Quanish. You have let me down and I release you from the challenge. I will find someone with the passion to argue it someday. Your heart isn't in it.

Originally posted by McP
Masters of paper's feats. At this moment, I feel that Vader is really overhyped. After all, ESB Luke was able to hit his armor. ROTJ Luke bested him. ANH Kenobi was comfortably able to hold his own. Kanan and Ezra combined were able to Force push him (doesn't matter if he was discracted, he shouldn't be). In the Legends Dark Woman who past her prime, and few other mid-level Jedi were a match for him.

No way that he's going to beat someone of Plagueis' caliber.



Come on Dude, a lot has changed. Vader under Disney Canon is a Force Beast. He never used TK against ROTJ Luke or ANH Ben, so nothing's been contradicted. And it's not like Kenobi or Luke Skywalker are weak either. But all these new comic book showings for Vader are Canon.

It was different in Legends, and very different in Lucas's own continuity. But under Disney's new continuity Vader is something else.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do guys normally greater than the other wait till they are sleeping to kill them. Nah.

TPM Sidious. Now we are up against ROTS Sidious. He got a big boost in power. Learn your Star Wars Quan.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You have let me down and I release you from the challenge. I will find someone with the passion to argue it someday. Your heart isn't in it.

Quan I'm going to end this khan debate here. Khan can't handle Vader or Sidious. You take Canon only, I believe those new comic books we have seen are canon now. We see Vader tear down ships, we explicitly see him move in blurs to deflect blaster bolts. Now imagine that and put a being of much greater power palpatine. Imagine what he could do just based off that. Now it's your choice on if you wanna use ROTJ Sidious or ROTS Sidious. I don't care which. Hell you could even use TPM Sidious because it all comes down to same thing. Either Sidious will blitz Khan, ragdoll him, or fry his ass with lightning. I'm going to be nice and let you decide how Khan dies since you love him so much.

Don't bring up any old argument you use like, Sidious didn't kill Luke with lightning after exposure to it for long periods of time, he was trotting hi. For the majority of the time, or he was killed by a one handed cyborg, while being distracted torturing his biggest adversary. Another one you would bring up is Vader is slow. Look at those scans where we see Vader on the panel moving in blurs easily. Now all of this is just canon, you said canon only, never said just movies TCW and Rebels. Let go to rebels, don't use the "oh Ezra and Kanan force pushed Vader so Khan can easily shoot him with his gun" argument, because Khan doesn't have the force and Khan wouldn't even make it that far. Did you see what Vader did? He lifted an AT-AT with ease.

Vader has the force, Khan doesn't. All he has is his gun which based on feats Vader or Sidious can easily take away. Sidious is more powerful than Vader no has a wider array of powers that real extreme magnitudes. Khan shall die a slow and painful death by both. You lose. You always lose.

Plagueis beats any version of Vader.

Pretty sure Plagueis did heal fully from the Maladian attack, a d was also healing himself against Sidious' lightning despite being drunk as **** and ambushed. Some world record horseshit being spewed in this thread lmao.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Come on Dude, a lot has changed. Vader under Disney Canon is a Force Beast. He never used TK against ROTJ Luke or ANH Ben, so nothing's been contradicted. And it's not like Kenobi or Luke Skywalker are weak either. But all these new comic book showings for Vader are Canon.

It was different in Legends, and very different in Lucas's own continuity. But under Disney's new continuity Vader is something else. Legends Vader really isn't that different from Canon Vader, more impressive feats yes but nothing Legends Vader couldn't feasibly accomplish.

He's certainly done nothing to suggest he's a more powerful or even comparable in any aspect of the Force to Plagueis.

People are getting overexcited concerning feats that aren't even Starkiller level.

Originally posted by ILS
Pretty sure Plagueis did heal fully from the Maladian attack
Then why did he need a Transpirator mask, after the attack, then? KEK. The rest of your post is irrelevant because no one said Plagueis couldn't heal himself. Just not to the extent that he could recover from having more than half of his body chopped.

His skill in Midichlorian manip peaked after the transpirator mask, at which point I believe he either took it off or didn't need it. Kek.
If Maul can survive bisection Plagueis sure as shit can. Not that Vader would be capable of inflicting that kind of injury.

Originally posted by ILS
Plagueis > Vader is the correct answer if your approach isn't hurdur lift all the things

I sense much butthurt.

Lots of Vader hate, Neph.

Quote for him not needing the transpirator mask, please. Also, red-herring; no one ever said Plagueis can't survive extreme damage - only that he couldn't heal himself to the degree Redpill was.

Also, nah. Vader is just going to remove his head.

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Quote for him not needing the transpirator mask, please.He gains the ability to heal his own body after managing to revive Venamis for the first time. After a few months all of his scars disappeared, his skin appeared more youthful and he began breathing easier. His damaged tissue from the attack mended itself; his entire body was rejuvenating itself to the point, in time, he would cease to age at all. Also, Plagueis contacts every living and otherwise Forceful being or entity in existence simultaneously, through the Force, and informs them of his existence, which frankly shits on Vader's power feats, and that's if discovering internal and external immortality, the ability to create life, and forcing the Force - a universal energy field - into creating a Chosen One through meditating against it, hadn't already. (Yes, Sidious helped, but he was pre-prime and even accounting for him, Vader's outclassed).

That's after a few months of internalizing Midichlorian manipulation. Fast forward 8 years later.. 8 years to continue healing. He discovers that he has increased the number of midichlorians in his body. So take everything I've said already and apply it to a guy with even more midichlorians to channel his power through.

Then cut to Sidious' assassination of Plagueis. He points out, rightfully so, that Plagueis even after being blasted by a full-power Force storm from Sidious would be able to heal the damage done to his lungs, heart and brain.

I think it's pretty clear, personally, that Plagueis is not only better than Vader, but doesn't really need a fugging transpirator mask. He likely kept it on for the sake of keeping up appearances since - without being an immortal - you don't just suffer absurd amounts of organ damage and then take off your life support less than a decade later.

Did Luceno not also say he was uncertain who would win in a legitimate fight between Plagueis & TPM Palpatine?

Apparently he said he thought Plagueis wins, but I'm unsure where the quote comes from.

That said? TCSWE confirms Sidious only gained the ability - regardless of circumstances, the simple possibility of doing so - to kill Plagueis by TPM (meaning he could have meticulously planned to assassinate a fully-trusting Plagueis and he'd still have lost). He even tried using a nuke against him prior to that point in Maul: Lockdown.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
TPM Sidious. Now we are up against ROTS Sidious. He got a big boost in power. Learn your Star Wars Quan. Prove he had a huge surge in power.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Quan I'm going to end this khan debate here. Khan can't handle Vader or Sidious. You take Canon only, I believe those new comic books we have seen are canon now. We see Vader tear down ships, we explicitly see him move in blurs to deflect blaster bolts. Now imagine that and put a being of much greater power palpatine. Imagine what he could do just based off that. Now it's your choice on if you wanna use ROTJ Sidious or ROTS Sidious. I don't care which. Hell you could even use TPM Sidious because it all comes down to same thing. Either Sidious will blitz Khan, ragdoll him, or fry his ass with lightning. I'm going to be nice and let you decide how Khan dies since you love him so much.

Don't bring up any old argument you use like, Sidious didn't kill Luke with lightning after exposure to it for long periods of time, he was trotting hi. For the majority of the time, or he was killed by a one handed cyborg, while being distracted torturing his biggest adversary. Another one you would bring up is Vader is slow. Look at those scans where we see Vader on the panel moving in blurs easily. Now all of this is just canon, you said canon only, never said just movies TCW and Rebels. Let go to rebels, don't use the "oh Ezra and Kanan force pushed Vader so Khan can easily shoot him with his gun" argument, because Khan doesn't have the force and Khan wouldn't even make it that far. Did you see what Vader did? He lifted an AT-AT with ease.

Vader has the force, Khan doesn't. All he has is his gun which based on feats Vader or Sidious can easily take away. Sidious is more powerful than Vader no has a wider array of powers that real extreme magnitudes. Khan shall die a slow and painful death by both. You lose. You always lose. We don't see Vader react in time to quantify those feats. We also have already seen Khan take down ships in real time and can quantify the feats. Somehow when Vader does it in a vague comic where two people can't even come to an agreement on what occurred you think this is foolproof. Vader has always been portrayed as quick with a light saber with slower movements. We can see this in real time in the films and the rebels episodes. We have seen how slow tk is and the fact he has to concentrate to even use it leaving him vulnerable.

What Vader does in a comic is a moot point since we can quantify how long it took him to pick up Sidious and toss him down the shaft. It was slow as hell. Sidious has never deflected anything in real time with the sheer power and with the radius the phaser cannon covers.

You don't need to have the force to kill a force user. Order 66, Jango Fett, Cad Bane, etc. The force is just a tool like a gun or a jetpack when used in combat. It depends on skill level, feats, portrayals, and abilities.

Khan is portrayed on a much higher level than a guy who was utterly humiliated by Mace Windu in fair armed combat and begged for his life like a true weakling.

ah yeah, that reminds me, ill make the thread now quan

quan, will we be using star trek comic tie-ins to the film (i.e. the Khan series)?

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
quan, will we be using star trek comic tie-ins to the film (i.e. the Khan series)? No, as I've personally sought out trek at its heart to determine whether those comics are canon or not at Trek's motherboard. They aren't viewed as canon just the films and the series. Contradictions, orci going back and forth on his word in interviews, etc. cbs and paramount only really care about the tv series and the films.

Plus I've never liked arguing outside of certain mediums as we don't have any real time in comics and it muddies the waters. Sidious just from the films and live action series versus Khan from Into Darkness which is ultimately his only canon appearance anyway.


Ps. I said you didn't have to do this since your heart isn't in it. I need someone to bleed for Palpatine in be way of my Khan.

Well, I think it's mandatory for a die-hard Star Wars fan like me to support the greatest villain in cinematic history.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Well, I think it's mandatory for a die-hard Star Wars fan like me to support the greatest villain in cinematic history. Palpatine is weak. Greatest fantasy villain is Voldemort and the greatest Sci Fi villain is Khan.

Do what must be done, Darth ant.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Greatest fantasy villain is Voldemort
infinite rofls

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
infinite rofls A wizard who made other wizards with the same abilities shit their pants at the mere mention of his name.

Originally posted by quanchi112
the greatest Sci Fi villain is Khan.
lmao

Originally posted by Rebel95
lmao He'd kick the shit out of any Star Wars film villain to date.

I could argue for either.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Did Luceno not also say he was uncertain who would win in a legitimate fight between Plagueis & TPM Palpatine?

Q: Do you feel that, had it come to a contest of lightsabers or Force powers, Sidious would have prevailed anyway?
A: If it had come to a duel, I think Plagueis may have found a way to undermine his apprentice

Imagine the reverberations in the Star Wars universe if Plagueis turns out to be Snoke.

Then we'd have another Sith in the Disney continuity who would shit on Khan

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Then we'd have another Sith in the Disney continuity who would shit on Khan

Don't you think that's a little blatantly antagonistic?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Then we'd have another Sith in the Disney continuity who would shit on Khan No one at this point does but don't count your chickens before they are hatched. From what I heard a paramount executive talk about we might see some more badass Trek characters in the next film so tread carefully. Trek already has the tech advantage.

It would really undermine Palpatine. Teehee.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't see Vader react in time to quantify those feats. We also have already seen Khan take down ships in real time and can quantify the feats. Somehow when Vader does it in a vague comic where two people can't even come to an agreement on what occurred you think this is foolproof. Vader has always been portrayed as quick with a light saber with slower movements. We can see this in real time in the films and the rebels episodes. We have seen how slow tk is and the fact he has to concentrate to even use it leaving him vulnerable.

What Vader does in a comic is a moot point since we can quantify how long it took him to pick up Sidious and toss him down the shaft. It was slow as hell. Sidious has never deflected anything in real time with the sheer power and with the radius the phaser cannon covers.

You don't need to have the force to kill a force user. Order 66, Jango Fett, Cad Bane, etc. The force is just a tool like a gun or a jetpack when used in combat. It depends on skill level, feats, portrayals, and abilities.

Khan is portrayed on a much higher level than a guy who was utterly humiliated by Mace Windu in fair armed combat and begged for his life like a true weakling.

Well look at that so can Vader. We see him TKing those fighters in no time at all. It's just a motion of his hand. Not that hard to comprehend. The comics are canon, you said you debate canon so deal with it. Hes this is proof. Vader can do all of that with barely even a thought. He's just that powerful. So again moving where you can see after images is slow? You need to really look at your defintion of slow. Reaction time in the films isn't good enough. Especially when you look at that when Vader was made was the 70s and 80s when tech wasn't as good. So that's out. Rebels, he was going agaisnt opponents who are far weaker, toying around so why u leash full power? TK is slow? When? I've seen TK used in choke form and push form and it seems almost close to instant. Your an idiot. Concentration. Vader can use TK without breaking his lightsaber sequences. https://youtu.be/C-DeI3ohVbY 3:36-4:04 see he can stay perfectly defended while using the force. Also if he uses a push he would hit Khan so how is he leaving himself open?

Choreography doesn't really help prove a point since this film was made in the 80s I believe. You didn't have any problem using Darth Maul son of Dathomir as points for maul even though it's a comic. Called dodging, or his own power with lighting can challenge it most likely Bing as powerful as he is.

True you don't, but these force users yes. Sidious isn't getting taken down by anyone of these and I've already explained Cad bane. He got lucky. Jango fett, guess what killed by a force user. Sidious beats Khan due to greater skill, power, and all of the above. Khan once he loses his gun is done. Sidious and Vader still have the force evn without their lightsabers.


I'm gonna give you the chance to decide how Khan dies. TK, lightning, lightsaber, or Sidious converts Khan. Your choice.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Imagine the reverberations in the Star Wars universe if Plagueis turns out to be Snoke.

That would be awful from a storytelling standpoint.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well look at that so can Vader. We see him TKing those fighters in no time at all. It's just a motion of his hand. Not that hard to comprehend. The comics are canon, you said you debate canon so deal with it. Hes this is proof. Vader can do all of that with barely even a thought. He's just that powerful. So again moving where you can see after images is slow? You need to really look at your defintion of slow. Reaction time in the films isn't good enough. Especially when you look at that when Vader was made was the 70s and 80s when tech wasn't as good. So that's out. Rebels, he was going agaisnt opponents who are far weaker, toying around so why u leash full power? TK is slow? When? I've seen TK used in choke form and push form and it seems almost close to instant. Your an idiot. Concentration. Vader can use TK without breaking his lightsaber sequences. https://youtu.be/C-DeI3ohVbY 3:36-4:04 see he can stay perfectly defended while using the force. Also if he uses a push he would hit Khan so how is he leaving himself open?

Choreography doesn't really help prove a point since this film was made in the 80s I believe. You didn't have any problem using Darth Maul son of Dathomir as points for maul even though it's a comic. Called dodging, or his own power with lighting can challenge it most likely Bing as powerful as he is.

True you don't, but these force users yes. Sidious isn't getting taken down by anyone of these and I've already explained Cad bane. He got lucky. Jango fett, guess what killed by a force user. Sidious beats Khan due to greater skill, power, and all of the above. Khan once he loses his gun is done. Sidious and Vader still have the force evn without their lightsabers.


I'm gonna give you the chance to decide how Khan dies. TK, lightning, lightsaber, or Sidious converts Khan. Your choice. Waving your hand takes time. We don't see his actions this we can't qualify it. We do see his actions in the rebels series and the live action films. Slow. The canon game also portrays him as slow and powerful just like I've always said. It's sad I have a much better grasp on the portrayals of the characters than the biased fans. Luke is also in the earlier films and much faster than Vader movement wise.

I use Darth Maul portrayals from the series not the timing of his feats. Saying someone is lucky is avoiding the fact it occurred and your opinion doesn't change what occurred. Jango Fett's equipment wasn't broken by a force user and he got killed by the same guy who disarmed and had Palpatine at his mercy.

Food for thought. Darth ant answered the bell. You quit the fight as did Darth Thor long ago.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
That would be awful from a storytelling standpoint. Iyo not mine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Is this canon ?

Doesn't matter it's what you asked for.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Waving your hand takes time. We don't see his actions this we can't qualify it. We do see his actions in the rebels series and the live action films. Slow. The canon game also portrays him as slow and powerful just like I've always said. It's sad I have a much better grasp on the portrayals of the characters than the biased fans. Luke is also in the earlier films and much faster than Vader movement wise.

I use Darth Maul portrayals from the series not the timing of his feats. Saying someone is lucky is avoiding the fact it occurred and your opinion doesn't change what occurred. Jango Fett's equipment wasn't broken by a force user and he got killed by the same guy who disarmed and had Palpatine at his mercy.

Food for thought. Darth ant answered the bell. You quit the fight as did Darth Thor long ago.

So does getting your gun in the right position or to move it and pulling the trigger. All it takes for both is mere seconds. Comics are a on, you said canon. We see he can destroy these huge machines with just a wave of his hand, and I beleive he's taking down ships with ease as well. Live action isn't a good representation sense they have certain limits and rebels, he wasn't going all out. You make him out to be this slow moving being when he is in fact a competent fast moving deulist. You don't have a better grasp, you don't understand how to interpret them. If he was much faster than he would have overwhelmed the apparent slow moving Vader if he is so fast.

No you use every aspect including the timing for maul Talzin all of them. You had no problm saying Maul held off Windu and securamwhen we don't know how long that one panel was, but no you had no problm making that his feat. No Jango fett was just beheaded by a force user. Lucas already said Sidious faked all of that. I find your stupidity very disturbing.

Again I give you the choice how would you say you want Khan to die? It's up to you. So Ant will beat you the same way Thor and I did. Good to know.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Doesn't matter it's what you asked for. So it doesn't count thus meaningless. Just as I thought.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
So does getting your gun in the right position or to move it and pulling the trigger. All it takes for both is mere seconds. Comics are a on, you said canon. We see he can destroy these huge machines with just a wave of his hand, and I beleive he's taking down ships with ease as well. Live action isn't a good representation sense they have certain limits and rebels, he wasn't going all out. You make him out to be this slow moving being when he is in fact a competent fast moving deulist. You don't have a better grasp, you don't understand how to interpret them. If he was much faster than he would have overwhelmed the apparent slow moving Vader if he is so fast.

No you use every aspect including the timing for maul Talzin all of them. You had no problm saying Maul held off Windu and securamwhen we don't know how long that one panel was, but no you had no problm making that his feat. No Jango fett was just beheaded by a force user. Lucas already said Sidious faked all of that. I find your stupidity very disturbing.

Again I give you the choice how would you say you want Khan to die? It's up to you. So Ant will beat you the same way Thor and I did. Good to know. Far less time than that but it doesn't surprise me you wouldn't care about facts. We see in love action film his tk also takes time and that he's never destroyed an organic being in the same manner is a ship so wishful thinking on your end. You claim he's never going all out so why does it matter ? None of his fights count as he never goes all out and they happened in the 80's so who bloody cares.

I never claimed to quantify his speed in that but I did show off his portrayal was on par with the guy who had the supreme chancellor begging for his life. He feigned weakness after he was defeated to get the help he needed. Do not insult a debater it is poor form.


Sit on the sideline and stay broken like Darth Thor is.

Hey quanch which side do you support. I could argue for either though I lean towards Plagueis.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So it doesn't count thus meaningless. Just as I thought.

To you mean. Like you said this is an EU forum so EU counts. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't count.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Far less time than that but it doesn't surprise me you wouldn't care about facts. We see in love action film his tk also takes time and that he's never destroyed an organic being in the same manner is a ship so wishful thinking on your end. You claim he's never going all out so why does it matter ? None of his fights count as he never goes all out and they happened in the 80's so who bloody cares.

I never claimed to quantify his speed in that but I did show off his portrayal was on par with the guy who had the supreme chancellor begging for his life. He feigned weakness after he was defeated to get the help he needed. Do not insult a debater it is poor form.


Sit on the sideline and stay broken like Darth Thor is.

All of these are in the realm of less than a second and then you take into consideration Vader has precog and advanced speed as well. Pulling a trigger takes time. Force push pretty instant, force choke works fairly well also. No because he's never destroyed an organic being with a gun. He's choked organic beings, cut them down with his saber and crushed their throats with his bare hands. He can choke Khan out without even moving his hands. Exactly. They happened in the 80s so his portrayal isn't what Lucas woudl ahve planned. He wouldn't make the second biggest villain in his franchise slow, at least not the level you say.

You claimed he could contend with Mace since one panel for an unspecified time you said he could do that when it was just one movement so yes you have. So you agree that he was faking. The reason he was is honestly irrelevant as it has no bearing on the fact that he was in fact faking so him begging is all an act and doesn't count agaisnt him. I'm suprised you would say that since you insult debators left and right.

How would I be broken since I've beaten you in every single thread we have been in. Including Sidious vs Khan. Khan has no answer to Sidious force powers.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
To you mean. Like you said this is an EU forum so EU counts. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't count. I refer to the default rules. That's my right. Don't be upset about it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
All of these are in the realm of less than a second and then you take into consideration Vader has precog and advanced speed as well. Pulling a trigger takes time. Force push pretty instant, force choke works fairly well also. No because he's never destroyed an organic being with a gun. He's choked organic beings, cut them down with his saber and crushed their throats with his bare hands. He can choke Khan out without even moving his hands. Exactly. They happened in the 80s so his portrayal isn't what Lucas woudl ahve planned. He wouldn't make the second biggest villain in his franchise slow, at least not the level you say.

You claimed he could contend with Mace since one panel for an unspecified time you said he could do that when it was just one movement so yes you have. So you agree that he was faking. The reason he was is honestly irrelevant as it has no bearing on the fact that he was in fact faking so him begging is all an act and doesn't count agaisnt him. I'm suprised you would say that since you insult debators left and right.

How would I be broken since I've beaten you in every single thread we have been in. Including Sidious vs Khan. Khan has no answer to Sidious force powers. You are attempting to quantify Vader's tk feats when you can't. We have seen his tk in real time and it's not that fast and requires his focus. Khan's feats of firing shots are faster and more powerful than the tk feats. Vader has hit people with tk and it doesn't just insta kill them but Khan's guns do.

You just made a horrendous claim which has nothing to do with the speed of a character. Jason Voorhees, Michael Myers, are slow powerful iconic horror villains. Vader is slower and powerful based off the evidence you want to ignore.

Untrue. You've lost and conceded in multiple threads to me and I'm surprised you're even posting now. We both know when people tell you to stop you'll listen like the beta you are.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I refer to the default rules. That's my right. Don't be upset about it.

Well it's everyone else's right to refer to EU material. So it's ok if you infringe on us, but when it's the other way around you wanna throw a hissy fit? This is EU material, Plagueis' feats,are EU so there is no way you can actually say for certain a guess on who wins due to not knowing his feats.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Hey quanch which side do you support. I could argue for either though I lean towards Plagueis. Only argue canon but I believe based off implied power that Plagueis wins.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well it's everyone else's right to refer to EU material. So it's ok if you infringe on us, but when it's the other way around you wanna throw a hissy fit? This is EU material, Plagueis' feats,are EU so there is no way you can actually say for certain a guess on who wins due to not knowing his feats. I said my piece.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are attempting to quantify Vader's tk feats when you can't. We have seen his tk in real time and it's not that fast and requires his focus. Khan's feats of firing shots are faster and more powerful than the tk feats. Vader has hit people with tk and it doesn't just insta kill them but Khan's guns do.

You just made a horrendous claim which has nothing to do with the speed of a character. Jason Voorhees, Michael Myers, are slow powerful iconic horror villains. Vader is slower and powerful based off the evidence you want to ignore.

Untrue. You've lost and conceded in multiple threads to me and I'm surprised you're even posting now. We both know when people tell you to stop you'll listen like the beta you are.

Yea I can. He waved his hand and the AT-AT came down. Not much to it. We have seen his TK in one portrayal. This is more updated material showing more power. Ok first of all I'm not aware of anything Khan's gun has done that Vader hasn't down or can't replicate. Force choke or his saber seems to work. He hit Kilgons. Vader is more durable than they are.

Vader has moved in blurs, been described as moving faster than thought and more. Whether it's hyperbole or not it shows his speed that he would be placed on a level like that, showing his movements aren't slow.

Yea it's true. I've beaten you in all of the threads we have been in. I've never once conceded to you, it's actually been the other way,around. You are in able of defeating me or anyone for that matter. Why waste my time endlessly like that. For a 100+ pages on a topic I have thoroughly beaten you on. What sense does it make to continue?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yea I can. He waved his hand and the AT-AT came down. Not much to it. We have seen his TK in one portrayal. This is more updated material showing more power. Ok first of all I'm not aware of anything Khan's gun has done that Vader hasn't down or can't replicate. Force choke or his saber seems to work. He hit Kilgons. Vader is more durable than they are.

Vader has moved in blurs, been described as moving faster than thought and more. Whether it's hyperbole or not it shows his speed that he would be placed on a level like that, showing his movements aren't slow.

Yea it's true. I've beaten you in all of the threads we have been in. I've never once conceded to you, it's actually been the other way,around. You are in able of defeating me or anyone for that matter. Why waste my time endlessly like that. For a 100+ pages on a topic I have thoroughly beaten you on. What sense does it make to continue? You can't quantify it in a comic unless the time is noted. You don't understand simple sentences. We don't see his tk in realtime other than the rebels and films. Period.

Hyperbolic. We see him and quantify his speed. Slow. Canon game states he is slow.

Nah, you hid in fear of me when I never went anywhere.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't quantify it in a comic unless the time is noted. You don't understand simple sentences. We don't see his tk in realtime other than the rebels and films. Period.

Hyperbolic. We see him and quantify his speed. Slow. Canon game states he is slow.

Nah, you hid in fear of me when I never went anywhere.

Again he waves his hand and it falls. Doesn't take a long time to wave your hand and something to fall like that. It just shows how powerful Vader is. Again more updated material that doesn't take that much to understand. I see where your coming from but I disagree.

Again like I said even if it is hyperbole, it shows how fast he would be by being described like that.

Actually you left the Voldemort and Dumbledore thread. I thoroughly beat you in those, all of them.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again he waves his hand and it falls. Doesn't take a long time to wave your hand and something to fall like that. It just shows how powerful Vader is. Again more updated material that doesn't take that much to understand. I see where your coming from but I disagree.

Again like I said even if it is hyperbole, it shows how fast he would be by being described like that.

Actually you left the Voldemort and Dumbledore thread. I thoroughly beat you in those, all of them. It is guesswork and we don't see the destruction how long that takes to occur. I never said he wasn't powerful. I said he was slow.

Still hyperbolic.

I'm not in a Voldemort mood but mark my words when I am ill go on a tear and beat you into submission again.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is guesswork and we don't see the destruction how long that takes to occur. I never said he wasn't powerful. I said he was slow.

Still hyperbolic.

I'm not in a Voldemort mood but mark my words when I am ill go on a tear and beat you into submission again.

Not that hard to find an area of time. We see a vader lift his hands and then it falls, it's defintlly within seconds. It's not like it takes a lot of time or effort for him to do so.

Still shows how fast he is. Game set Match.

Excuses. You just lost. I'm not sure where that again comes from, since I've beaten you every time.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Not that hard to find an area of time. We see a vader lift his hands and then it falls, it's defintlly within seconds. It's not like it takes a lot of time or effort for him to do so.

Still shows how fast he is. Game set Match.

Excuses. You just lost. I'm not sure where that again comes from, since I've beaten you every time. It is still guesswork which is my point.

No, that doesn't. I also said his movement speed is slow because it is.

Rescind your claims like the Yoda thread.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It is still guesswork which is my point.

No, that doesn't. I also said his movement speed is slow because it is.

Rescind your claims like the Yoda thread.

Your point is irrelevant, while Vader destroying that At-At was swift and powerful.

Yea it does. If someone says it's raining cats and dogs that means it generally raining really hard. So if someone says he moves faster than thought it means he was moving extremely fast.

Ito still entirely possible Vader could take Yoda and win a few rounds, just not the majority most likely.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Your point is irrelevant, while Vader destroying that At-At was swift and powerful.

Yea it does. If someone says it's raining cats and dogs that means it generally raining really hard. So if someone says he moves faster than thought it means he was moving extremely fast.

Ito still entirely possible Vader could take Yoda and win a few rounds, just not the majority most likely. This is what makes you a poor debater. You just guess and then use words or claims that don't contradict what I've said at all.

Me: Vader is slow and powerful.
You: Vader moves in blur like fashion and waves his hands so he's pretty fast.
Me: prove it.
You: how long does it take to wave a hand.

We see how fast he does move. It isn't fast. We quantify time otherwise it's just guesswork.



You already rescinded your claims and admitted I was right.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is what makes you a poor debater. You just guess and then use words or claims that don't contradict what I've said at all.

Me: Vader is slow and powerful.
You: Vader moves in blur like fashion and waves his hands so he's pretty fast.
Me: prove it.
You: how long does it take to wave a hand.

We see how fast he does move. It isn't fast. We quantify time otherwise it's just guesswork.



You already rescinded your claims and admitted I was right.

In other words nothing to disprove my claim or method. Good to know.

How do you go from saying its hyperbole to saying prove it. I just did with the hyperbole. I admitted it was hyperbole, but saying he moved faster than thought shows that he does move with more speed than you yourself give him credit.

No you said Yoda crushes Vader which isn't right.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In other words nothing to disprove my claim or method. Good to know.

How do you go from saying its hyperbole to saying prove it. I just did with the hyperbole. I admitted it was hyperbole, but saying he moved faster than thought shows that he does move with more speed than you yourself give him credit.

No you said Yoda crushes Vader which isn't right. I do not have to disprove your claim you have to prove it. The fact you still aren't aware of this is why you aren't a competent debater.

Hyperbole isn't proof that's called flowery language. Proving it is quantifying it.

You changed your stance not me. Yoda is too fast for slow Vader and with greater force powers.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I do not have to disprove your claim you have to prove it. The fact you still aren't aware of this is why you aren't a competent debater.

Hyperbole isn't proof that's called flowery language. Proving it is quantifying it.

You changed your stance not me. Yoda is too fast for slow Vader and with greater force powers.

Again you yourself have backed down. All he does is raise his hand and it falls down. It takes seconds. Seocnds quan. This coming form the debater known as a troll althroughout this forum and has never won a debate in your time here.

No you use what you have. Someone says it's raining cats and dogs of course it's not really its describing how hard it's raining. So someone in the Star Wars universe says that Vader moves fast enough that he moves faster than thought whether in the SW universe that's true or hyperbole it still describes he's moving at incredibly fast speed. That's what hyperbole does, it describes things with impossible situations since it's so good it's gone beyond the realm of normal.

Uhhh can't say that. Yoda is faster than Dooku but Dooku was still able to hold his own. Vader>Dooku in both force and Saber prowess and with most likely more experience. So yea Vader could take it.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Again you yourself have backed down. All he does is raise his hand and it falls down. It takes seconds. Seocnds quan. This coming form the debater known as a troll althroughout this forum and has never won a debate in your time here.

No you use what you have. Someone says it's raining cats and dogs of course it's not really its describing how hard it's raining. So someone in the Star Wars universe says that Vader moves fast enough that he moves faster than thought whether in the SW universe that's true or hyperbole it still describes he's moving at incredibly fast speed. That's what hyperbole does, it describes things with impossible situations since it's so good it's gone beyond the realm of normal.

Uhhh can't say that. Yoda is faster than Dooku but Dooku was still able to hold his own. Vader>Dooku in both force and Saber prowess and with most likely more experience. So yea Vader could take it. I never said he didn't do that I said you have not quantified it. Khan shoots in less than a second which is my point. Thanks for conceding seconds.

So it's hyperbolic and not quantifiable. What's worse is you say ignore his ot showings and rebels. It's so biased I can't you seriously.

Yoda would beat him all day and fleeing to escape isn't impressive. Dooku is a bum. Vos made him look awful.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said he didn't do that I said you have not quantified it. Khan shoots in less than a second which is my point. Thanks for conceding seconds.

So it's hyperbolic and not quantifiable. What's worse is you say ignore his ot showings and rebels. It's so biased I can't you seriously.

Yoda would beat him all day and fleeing to escape isn't impressive. Dooku is a bum. Vos made him look awful.

Quantified to specifics no. Generalized yes. How long would you say it takes a human to raise their hand. Defintily less than a second. so I'm not seeing what the problem is. So realisticly speaking yes Vader could perform that feat in seconds around 1-3 seconds maybe 2-5. Now khan can shoot in about a second. What is he going to do once Vader takes that thing away? We've seen him take a gun away from one of the best pilots in the galaxy in Han Solo. Then you look he can choke people without hand gestures as he does in ESB a couple times, and since Khan has no force wall I don't see why he couldn't be choked.

Do you know what hyperbole is used for? It's used to make a point. It says Vader can move faster than thought. Ok, that means he can move very fast, not as fast as one can think but very fast none the less. So that pretty much destroys any notion of him being slow.

Nah. Yoda may take the majority, but not all day. Vader has enough advantages in his side to where he could take down Yoda.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Quantified to specifics no. Generalized yes. How long would you say it takes a human to raise their hand. Defintily less than a second. so I'm not seeing what the problem is. So realisticly speaking yes Vader could perform that feat in seconds around 1-3 seconds maybe 2-5. Now khan can shoot in about a second. What is he going to do once Vader takes that thing away? We've seen him take a gun away from one of the best pilots in the galaxy in Han Solo. Then you look he can choke people without hand gestures as he does in ESB a couple times, and since Khan has no force wall I don't see why he couldn't be choked.

Do you know what hyperbole is used for? It's used to make a point. It says Vader can move faster than thought. Ok, that means he can move very fast, not as fast as one can think but very fast none the less. So that pretty much destroys any notion of him being slow.

Nah. Yoda may take the majority, but not all day. Vader has enough advantages in his side to where he could take down Yoda. You already said it takes him seconds to perform his tk feat so he's dead and doesn't have to worry about it. Han Solo also fired off blasts before Vader could react.

Already been explained to you. He isn't slow with his saber he is slow movement wise so thus my point stands and yours doesn't.

Yoda wins all day but hey you already conceded.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You already said it takes him seconds to perform his tk feat so he's dead and doesn't have to worry about it. Han Solo also fired off blasts before Vader could react.

Already been explained to you. He isn't slow with his saber he is slow movement wise so thus my point stands and yours doesn't.

Yoda wins all day but hey you already conceded.

To bring down a giant At-At maybe. Is Khan anywhere near the scale of an At-At. No he is an augmented human whom IIRC was beaten by Spock, and the regeneration ability he has not used in the way I imagined. Irrelevant when we see he has moved in blurs explicitly shown, and also he took it away which is the point.

Moving faster than thought. Moving faster goes with his sprint speed. Again describing that he is indeed fast with his sprint speed.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
To bring down a giant At-At maybe. Is Khan anywhere near the scale of an At-At. No he is an augmented human whom IIRC was beaten by Spock, and the regeneration ability he has not used in the way I imagined. Irrelevant when we see he has moved in blurs explicitly shown, and also he took it away which is the point.

Moving faster than thought. Moving faster goes with his sprint speed. Again describing that he is indeed fast with his sprint speed. I am saying Han Solo isn't the scale of an at at either but we see Han fire off successive shots against Vader. Khan was beating Spock one on one and he wasn't armed.


What was moving faster than thought ? We have seen Vader move very slowly in real time but you want to ignore it.

Credit goes to Zapan87 for his respect thread on this matter.

Eh....regarding the Han vs Vader thing...Han drew faster than an eye wink, something which is like 300-400 milliseconds. Vader still however was able to react to the shots and block them.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Eh....regarding the Han vs Vader thing...Han drew faster than an eye wink, something which is like 300-400 milliseconds. Vader still however was able to react to the shots and block them. We literally see him draw and fire. We can time it out. Want to ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We literally see him draw and fire. We can time it out. Want to ?

The script says what happened, that's what happened. Of course Ford isn't gonna be able to draw that fast, the script however from the movie notes that Han Solo did.

If you can't even take the script as a fact, then I don't know what to tell you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't see him react in realtime so to me it's all speculation how much time passed. We also see Luke was quick enough despite not completing his training to tag Vader in the shoulder. We also see Vader isn't quick enough to defend himself against Ezra and Kanan's force push. That's canon and we see it occur in real time. Evidence, how wonderful you are.

I have more canon sources on my side, I have sources that I just posted saying how fast Vader was, there was no hyperbole all showing/saying how fast he was. You ignoring that isn't going to change that. So I'm glad you concede, and now you can no longer say Vader is slow now that you have been proved wrong. There is no specualtion sense all of what I posted is facts. The time is pretty much instant. It says he moves faster than a FORCE WEILDER can react, and then the emperor who we all know is fast he was stated to move faster than him and an enraged Jedi knight and we have seen how enraged Jedi are in Obi wan in TPM and Anakin in ROTS, and Maul in TCW same with savage and Quin Lin Vos. Checkmate.

Books and script take precedence over movies which are limited by budget and the special effects of their time. Just like statements of skill and mastery over forms takes precedence over movie choreography.

Blocking blaster bolts is slow now? Heck, back in the old canon Vader blocked literal lasers from IG-88. In the new canon Kanan and even Ezra can deflect TIE fighter bolts which can tag other fighters and in the films we see fighters while cruising cross hundreds of thousands of kilometers in a few minutes while in space.

Originally posted by redpill
IMO any sith with force lightening can grievously injure vader and that includes dooku and nihl and talon

Nope. Vader's suit is insulated and he can block lightning. Granted anybody capable of lightning has an advantage over Vader as he would have to stop an attack to block it.

He was tanking Starkiller's lightning for a bit and moved under Sidious's lightning long enough to throw him into a chasm, so I'd say it takes a top tier lightning wielder to press that advantage.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
The script says what happened, that's what happened. Of course Ford isn't gonna be able to draw that fast, the script however from the movie notes that Han Solo did.

If you can't even take the script as a fact, then I don't know what to tell you. We time out his feat. We don't ever supersede the time a feat takes place and refer to some vague hyperbolic script reference. I take the feat as fact as it occurs in realtime.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I have more canon sources on my side, I have sources that I just posted saying how fast Vader was, there was no hyperbole all showing/saying how fast he was. You ignoring that isn't going to change that. So I'm glad you concede, and now you can no longer say Vader is slow now that you have been proved wrong. There is no specualtion sense all of what I posted is facts. The time is pretty much instant. It says he moves faster than a FORCE WEILDER can react, and then the emperor who we all know is fast he was stated to move faster than him and an enraged Jedi knight and we have seen how enraged Jedi are in Obi wan in TPM and Anakin in ROTS, and Maul in TCW same with savage and Quin Lin Vos. Checkmate. Vader is fast with a saber but not movement wise as I have him in real time being slow. He's also canonically described in battlefront as slow and powerful. He is.m he's always been.

We see two force users use the force to sprint away from combat. It is like saying since Usain Bolt can run faster than Bruce Lee his reflexes are better. It's horrendous and illogical.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We time out his feat. We don't ever supersede the time a feat takes place and refer to some vague hyperbolic script reference. I take the feat as fact as it occurs in realtime.
What makes you think that it's hyperbolic?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader is fast with a saber but not movement wise as I have him in real time being slow. He's also canonically described in battlefront as slow and powerful. He is.m he's always been.

We see two force users use the force to sprint away from combat. It is like saying since Usain Bolt can run faster than Bruce Lee his reflexes are better. It's horrendous and illogical.

These canon sources say he moves extrem,y fast. These aren't hyperbole these are explicit. They say he moved faster than a Jedi could react and Jedi have precog and superhuman reflexes. He's described in Lords of the Sith and other canon sources and EU sources as fast and powerful.

That relates to this how? Sidious has shown how fast he is in sprint and reflexes and Vader was said to move faster than he. Even with the emperor holding back the fact he moved that fast shows he has speed.