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The Mighty Ducks run a gauntlet in the open sands of Tatooine. How far do they get? Full rest in between fights:

1. 5 Magnaguards
2. Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto
3. Darth Admiral Enigma
4. Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress
5. Count Dooku and 3 Magnaguards

B0ss: Darth Vader and Tarkin

Probably 5. If not, then boss.

They can make it to at least 5, but I don't know how that would go down before I see Tano vs. Vader myself.

Dooku spanks Ben like a naughty boy and the robots kill Ahsoka

They clear the gauntlet

I doubt they clear. Dooku is still more skilled and powerful than Ben, and Ahsoka would be stalled out long enough by the MGs long enough for Dooku to kill Ben.

Stops at 5

Originally posted by carthage
I doubt they clear. Dooku is still more skilled and powerful than Ben, and Ahsoka would be stalled out long enough by the MGs long enough for Dooku to kill Ben. How long do you think it would take for Dooku to kill Kenobi / Ahsoka destroy the MagnaGuards?

They probably clear, tbh.

Three MagnaGuards isn't really much anymore.

Hard stop at 5.

Yeah, Perhaps even 4

Lolno

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lolno

Unless Ashoka is on par with or above S6 TCWs Anakin (highly unlikely), there's honestly no way Ben doesn't get obliterated by Dooku's superior powers.

+ There's not even proof Ashoka knows how to counter force lightning.

Kenobi can counter Dooku's Lightning, and I wasn't talking to you.

^
Depends. I'm not reading a lot of spoilers these days, but from what I know, ROTS Kenobi (very similar version to TCWS6 Kenobi, I guess) is a prime version of Kenobi. So, old Ben might do worse here then he did on the past. And Ahoska might be still inferior to either Savage or Ventress (she might be superior as well, I have to wait to see her duel with Vader).

That's just possible.

Old Kenobi was able to contend with Prime Vader in ANH. Even if RotS is his prime, he's well equipped to block Dooku's Lightning.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kenobi can counter Dooku's Lightning, and I wasn't talking to you.

Ah I see. And Dooku has pushed back Kenobi and a Jedi Master simultaneously with his lightning...so unless Ashoka knows how to block it, she's getting blasted.

Wasn't it just Savage who has shown the inability to block lightning in canon? I think any non-dumbass can probably figure out to raise their lightsaber(s) to block lightning, but that's just me.

I'm pretty sure it can be blocked, I mean Obi-Wan did it just fine in AoTC and I'm pretty sure he never even encountered Force Lighting up until that point.

I mean yeah he saw Anakin blasted with it by Dooku, but it seemed like he didn't have any concern if blocking it would work or not.

Yeah but the AnaKenObiWalker duo jobs in literally every fight they're in in TCW

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Old Kenobi was able to contend with Prime Vader in ANH. Even if RotS is his prime, he's well equipped to block Dooku's Lightning.

Dooku never defeated Kenobi by FL. He overhelmed him in a saber fight in AotC, by TK in ROTS and nearly stomp him physically in their last duel in TCW.
Perhaps Ben became more powerful in the Force (not sure however, also I'm not a fan of conception, that Dooku could beat Kenobi by his TK whenever he wanted - I believe that he could do it only because he thrown him off-balance in saber fight and Kenobi lowered his guard).
Anyway, Kenobi is terrible team partner due to his lack of offensive - in both sabers and the Force. He's also somehow weaker (until it wont be state otherwise) as Ben, so I doubt that Dooku will even needs those MG's.

What the hell are you talking about? Kenobi has Ataru for offensive, and Dooku needed to use droids to take on both of Kenobi and Anakin, and Kenobi was able to deflect all of Dooku's attacks without any effort. He's a hell of a good teammate to aid Ahsoka or anyone, especially if they are able to remove the Magnaguards quickly, and they definitely can. Not to mention it took all of Dooku's energy to remove Obi-Wan from the fight, and we already know that his casual TK is able to be blocked by Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by McP
Anyway, Kenobi is terrible team partner due to his lack of offensive - in both sabers and the Force..
http://s3d4.turboimg.net/t1/13720699_media_preview.php.gif

ur sig iz shit, Ant

I can literally count the pixels in yours, bro.

That's because mine isn't based on a lie. uhuh

Freshest mad Revan's a central antagonist in TFA with frequent mentions in sourcebooks and videogames.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
What the hell are you talking about? Kenobi has Ataru for offensive, and Dooku needed to use droids to take on both of Kenobi and Anakin, and Kenobi was able to deflect all of Dooku's attacks without any effort.
Fine. I can say otherwise - Dooku effortlessly defended himself against Anakin's and Obi-Wan's attacks. And, wait, my source - Rise and Fall of DV is much more consistent with the movie then Stover's novel.
More then that, TCW showed us how effective Kenobi's Ataru was against Dooku. He nearly got stomped by Dooku's physicals attacks.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not to mention it took all of Dooku's energy to remove Obi-Wan from the fight
Selfown by you

Lucas co-wrote the ROTS novel, lmfao.

And lmfao @ comparing TCW K. to ROTS K..

Originally posted by McP
Selfown by you
Besides what Ant said, because both Kenobi and particularly Anakin grew greatly in power between Season 6 and RotS, Dooku isn't fighting Kenobi by himself, bud. A mind's a terrible thing to let go to waste.

Not in that part, God. Stover had ealier version of script. It was changed. A duel between Sidious and Yoda is a best example for that. You can hate me, but you should be impartial.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Besides what Ant said, because both Kenobi and particularly Anakin grew greatly in power between Season 6 and RotS, Dooku isn't fighting Kenobi by himself, bud. A mind's a terrible thing to let go to waste.

Those droids were like a points in a whoseline. In a novel, Dooku truly needed their's help, but in the movie Kenobi destroyed both of them, Dooku clashed his saber with Anakin's and Kenobi's sabers, overhelm them both in a saberlock which thown them off balance. He then kicked Skywalker away and overhelmed kenobi by Force TK. But he outmanuvered both of them in a saber fight at first place.

Too bad unlike your opinion, the book is valid and canon. If it doesn't contradict what's on screen, it's valid, and most of the duel is completely valid. You making up shit, which is contradicted on screen, however, is as far from valid as one can possible be. Like this:
Originally posted by McP
Those droids were like a points in a whoseline. In a novel, Dooku truly needed their's help, but in the movie Kenobi destroyed both of them, Dooku clashed his saber with Anakin's and Kenobi's sabers, overhelm them both in a saberlock which thown them off balance. He then kicked Skywalker away and overhelmed kenobi by Force TK. But he outmanuvered both of them in a saber fight at first place.
He didn't overwhelm anybody in sabers, he knocked them both off balance with the Force, just like in the novel. He didn't outmaneuver them and constantly kept himself away from both in combat.

Lol. If any guy that i respected will agree with what you have said, then I'll call myself idiot and admit your victory. But what you said above is... a nonsense for me.

Sorry mate, "respected" was a bad word. I ment any of guys that have perhaps similar opinions to mine about that universe.

That might be the single dumbest thing I've ever read here. "If people who agree with me agree with you, then I'll admit I'm an idiot, but since people who agree with me are also retarded, I don't fear that."

Fact is, you don't have to think you're wrong for you to be wrong. You just are. You can go on thinking whatever you want to. You're hardly worth the time of anyone convincing.

Allright, I'll prove that by myself. It's just late and I'm a bit lazy:

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Too bad unlike your opinion, the book is valid and canon. If it doesn't contradict what's on screen, it's valid, and most of the duel is completely valid. You making up shit, which is contradicted on screen, however, is as far from valid as one can possible be. Like this:

He didn't overwhelm anybody in sabers, he knocked them both off balance with the Force, just like in the novel. He didn't outmaneuver them and constantly kept himself away from both in combat.
You're wrong:

OBI-WAN and ANAKIN move toward DOOKU.
OBI-WAN: You won't get away this time, Dooku.
OBI-WAN and ANAKIN charge COUNT DOOKU. A great sword fight ensues.

They don't pretend to be less skilled at that point. In a novel, when they did, it was stated to look pathetic, not "great".

COUNT DOOKU: I've been looking forward to this.
ANAKIN: My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count.
COUNT DOOKU: Good. Twice the pride, double the fall.
DOOKU lunges at the JEDI and they fall back . . .
COUNT DOOKU: (continuing) Your moves are clumsy, Kenobi . . . too predictable. You'll have to do better.
As the battle proceeds, OBI-WAN and COUNT DOOKU are tired. ANAKIN is stronger as he becomes angry. ANAKIN continues to drive the attack on DOOKU. COUNT DOOKU throws OBI-WAN back using the Force.
ANAKIN and COUNT DOOKU move up the stairs.

Red parts were cut off. Sad, but those parts might suggest that They were holding back.
Yellow part might be true, some parts were cut off, it's not likely that Dooku and Kenobi were as tired as it's stated. I might be wrong here though.

As they reach the upper landing of the General's Quarters, ANAKIN leaps over COUNT DOOKU. OBI-WAN reaches the top of the stairs, destroying TWO SUPER BATTLE DROIDS.LACK OF A LITTLE PART COUNT DOOKU holds OBI-WAN in the air using the Force as he turns and kicks ANAKIN out of frame. OBI-WAN is choking.
ANAKIN hits the archway.
DOOKU sends OBI-WAN flying. The Jedi tumbles to the lower level unconscious. COUNT DOOKU spins around again and, using the Force, causes a section of the balcony to drop onto OBI-WAN. ANAKIN spins and kicks COUNT DOOKU, sending him over the balcony. ANAKIN Jumps, following him down to the main floor. COUNT DOOKU and ANAKIN continue the fight.

Lacking part:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYT3ctPuVRw
1:44 They clashed their sabers, Dooku overhelmes/outmanuveres them and throw them off-balance
So, there is no part on screen that would suggest that there were holding back. So it's less possile that any of them was that tired.
There wasn't also any single part, when Kenobi dueled Dooku alone, so Dooku couldn't even try to break Kenobi's defense, he has no time for that.


And, a little offtop - could you bring me quote, that Dooku used all of his energy to defeat Kenobi? Or, perhaps you mean "he used all of his remaining enrgy" (which was reduced mostly by Skywaler's attacks)? That's a great difference

Btw, if you want to compare Rise and Fall of DV and Stover's novel quotes to that, then no problem, but muuuuch later ^^

Novel > Movie tbh.

?

The novel should be used as the primary source, not the films.

The films are limited due to budget, time, and effects, and meant to entertain.

The novels have no boundaries, fully describe the situation and what we otherwise wouldn't know.

Taking fights as shown in the films at face value is a good way to conclude similarly to Jeensaari.

^
Partly agree. The novel and script should be used until it contradicts the movie. As you can see in Yoda vs Sidious, Lucas just changed his mind about that duel. The outcome was much different. But he's Lucas, he had every right to change his mind. Stover (it's not his fault) was just basing on a different version of script. So Lucas retconed novel before it was even released. Similar in that part. That's why I'm using another novel, Rise and Fall of DV. It's much more consistent.

IMO could stop at 4, definitely 5. Ben seems pretty frail and I'm not sure if he has the endurance and strength to make contact with Savage for extended periods of time. We all saw how Savage sent Dooku flying after making contact. I'd say Ventress and Ahsoka are on par with each other.

All this talk of ROTS Kenobi and he is even being used in the OP

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Novel > Movie tbh.


Yeah only problem with this is line of thinking is, the whole novel isn't canon, unlike the movies and canon animations where every scene is a canon scene, even if they are slowed down for us and whatnot, the scenes and sequences of events themselves are canon.


Which is why the movie novelizations are only there to give us more depth into what's happening in the movies, but certainly not override them.


Originally posted by carthage
All this talk of ROTS Kenobi and he is even being used in the OP



Yes but is Ben Kenobi > or < ROTS Kenobi? Because that's kind of important.

Lucas always seemed to say <, but that doesn't make much sense in the new Canon.

I think he probably became more powerful due to his studies of the Force over the years on Tatooine, but he became out of practice dueling-wise and less physically capable later on. As an all around combatant RotS Kenobi should be superior.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
I think he probably became more powerful due to his studies of the Force over the years on Tatooine, but he became out of practice dueling-wise and less physically capable later on. As an all around combatant RotS Kenobi should be superior.


Yeah The Star Wars comic shows him meditating a lot (well I presume it was a lot of his time doing that), so he should be growing in the Force. However he didn't touch his Lightsaber for his first 5 year on Tatooine, but then he picks it up at the end of that comic.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Wasn't it just Savage who has shown the inability to block lightning in canon? I think any non-dumbass can probably figure out to raise their lightsaber(s) to block lightning, but that's just me.


Nightsisters also got wrecked by it. And Ventress struggled to deflect Dooku's lightning.

+ I firmly believe Dooku can do what he does to Ventress to Ahsoka.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Nightsisters also got wrecked by it. And Ventress struggled to deflect Dooku's lightning.

+ I firmly believe Dooku can do what he does to Ventress to Ahsoka. The Nightsisters' defenses were down because they thought he was defeated and obviously weren't expecting him to lash out like that. When Ventress struggled to block his lightning, it was when she was getting up and had poor footing (are we talking about the same thing?).

Why? lol

Originally posted by |King Joker|
The Nightsisters' defenses were down because they thought he was defeated and obviously weren't expecting him to lash out like that. When Ventress struggled to block his lightning, it was when she was getting up and had poor footing (are we talking about the same thing?).

That's honestly a poor excuse for a force sensitive, or any sort of solider for that matter. Not to mention Ventress herself comments on how careful they must be because of Dooku's power. I don't buy it.

Yes we are, and I suppose. But she wasn't really getting up though, she had just TK'ed the hell out of Savage. As to why Dooku could treat Ahsoka like Ventress...well Ahsoka certainly hasn't shown anything that Late TCWs Ventress couldn't do. Her current feats put her on par.

But even early TCWs Ventress' feat of fighting Ahsoka and Luminara is more impressive than taking on the Inquisitors.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's honestly a poor excuse for a force sensitive, or any sort of solider for that matter. Not to mention Ventress herself comments on how careful they must be because of Dooku's power. I don't buy it.

Yes we are, and I suppose. But she wasn't really getting up though, she had just TK'ed the hell out of Savage. As to why Dooku could treat Ahsoka like Ventress...well Ahsoka certainly hasn't shown anything that Late TCWs Ventress couldn't do. Her current feats put her on par.

But even early TCWs Ventress' feat of fighting Ahsoka and Luminara is more impressive than taking on the Inquisitors. The Nightsisters' state after being defeated that Dooku was "stronger than they imagined" and Ventress responds with "I warned you." Even though Ventress warned them, they obviously underestimated him and weren't prepared. Dooku waited when they were vulnerable to unleash his attack, it was pretty obvious.

IIRC, Ventress was getting up and that's when Dooku shot the lightning at her, so she didn't have the best footing to block it. I'm not going to get into the Ahsoka/Dooku thing because I've already laid out my thoughts on that in my Ahsoka thread, and admittedly most Ahsoka arguments at this point are conjecture. After Ahsoka vs. Vader I'd definitely be willing to have a legit discussion on the topic. But by then I doubt people will argue what you're advocating.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
The Nightsisters' state after being defeated that Dooku was "stronger than they imagined" and Ventress responds with "I warned you." Even though Ventress warned them, they obviously underestimated him and weren't prepared. Dooku waited when they were vulnerable to unleash his attack, it was pretty obvious.

IIRC, Ventress was getting up and that's when Dooku shot the lightning at her, so she didn't have the best footing to block it. I'm not going to get into the Ahsoka/Dooku thing because I've already laid out my thoughts on that in my Ahsoka thread, and admittedly most Ahsoka arguments at this point are conjecture. After Ahsoka vs. Vader I'd definitely be willing to have a legit discussion on the topic. But by then I doubt people will argue what you're advocating.

I'm sure Ahsoka will be above Ventress. Doesn't mean I'd put her above S6 TCWs Anakin, which is what she'd need to be for her to make a difference against Dooku.

You mean the one that could almost take Dooku on solo? That doesn't make any sense.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You mean the one that could almost take Dooku on solo? That doesn't make any sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? Dooku (without even using his TK advantage) still nearly killed Kenobi on Oba-Dia with Anakin's help.

Which has nothing to do with Ahsoka. It's not like it's out of the question that a team of a more powerful/experienced Obi-Wan and Rebels Ahsoka can take this without her being Dooku-tier to take on Dooku.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which has nothing to do with Ahsoka. It's not like it's out of the question that a team of a more powerful/experienced Obi-Wan and Rebels Ahsoka can take this without her being Dooku-tier to take on Dooku.

Prove ANH Kenobi is more powerful than ROTS Kenobi. If anything he's decreased in power. Frankly there's not much preventing Dooku from temporarily incapacitating Ahsoka and taking out Kenobi as he did on the Invisible Hand especially if he's got magnaguards to back him up.

He's decreased in power, but can make prime Vader struggle? The same prime Vader that solo's armies, tears apart AT-ATs, and stands in the middle of explosions without a scratch? That sounds retarded.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He's decreased in power, but can make prime Vader struggle? The same prime Vader that solo's armies, tears apart AT-ATs, and stands in the middle of explosions without a scratch? That sounds retarded.
First off considering this thread never said if it was Legends or Canon I'm gonna assume both. In which case yes there is plenty of evidence Kenobi decreased in power. Second, prove Prime Vader was struggling. Third, prove Vader ever once even used TK. Luke in ESB actually performed even better against Vader, scoring a hit on his shoulder. Do you wanna make the argument that a half trained Luke is above ROTS Kenobi as well?

And regardless of if its canon or not. The Vader we see in the OT is clearly wildly inconsistent with the one we see in works like LOTS.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The same prime Vader that solo's armies, tears apart AT-ATs, and stands in the middle of explosions without a scratch?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
First off considering this thread never said if it was Legends or Canon I'm gonna assume both. In which case yes there is plenty of evidence Kenobi decreased in power.

Uh, you don't need to be quan to know canon is by default what we go with, especially since we're using a canon character in Rebels Ahsoka. Contrary to popular belief, canon is the default.

You have eyes, you've seen the duel, not to mention the descriptions of it in the script. It's idiotic to think Vader isn't struggling when "masterful strokes" are constantly being blocked.

You do realize power goes beyond TK, yeah? Besides: Ben seems to be under increasing pressure and strain, as if an invisible weight were being placed upon him. sounds like TK to me, but it could obviously be a variety of things.

And that's a shitty strawman and you know it, especially considering Vader isn't trying to kill Luke at that point and is trying to kill Kenobi. Not to mention it's not like ESB Luke hasn't been training to be a Jedi since ANH or anything, or has a variety of canon feats under his belt at this point.

And the Dooku in the PT is wildly inconsistent with the one seen in TCW. You don't just get to disregard feats because of the limitations of the time the movie was made in and reality.