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In canon or Legends some Lightsaber wielders perform well under any set of circumstances. What duelist in your opinion has the least amount of inconsistent feats, or seems to have no low showings altogether. How have they managed to maintain their record, whether by skill, physical advantages, or being unrivaled by others?

Yoda, I guess.

Probably Yoda, yeah.

Yea Yoda

Mace Windu

Originally posted by Darth Abonis
Mace Windu

It's possible, but most would disagree. His performances are generally a mixed bag, varying from dueling Sidious to struggling with underlings like Sora Bulq or Assaj Ventress. How much of that can be attributed to holding back is anybody's guess.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's possible, but most would disagree. His performances are generally a mixed bag, varying from dueling Sidious to struggling with underlings like Sora Bulq or Assaj Ventress. How much of that can be attributed to holding back is anybody's guess.

Mace standing as an equal to Sidious was through his Vaapad amp.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Mace standing as an equal to Sidious was through his Vaapad amp.

An amp that he would theoretically receive in any of the aforementioned duels. Even assuming that it's mechanics are related to the force strength of the opponent, chalking an entire duel up to the unquantifiable advantages of his form is kinda amateurish.

Not that it really impedes my point either way, given that regardless of physical augmentation, he still matched Palpatine's skill.

Agreed, Mace is not the most consistent.


Darth Krayt/A'Sharad Hett is pretty consistent, he didn't have any just crappy days that I can think of.

Sidious?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
An amp that he would theoretically receive in any of the aforementioned duels. Even assuming that it's mechanics are related to the force strength of the opponent, chalking an entire duel up to the unquantifiable advantages of his form is kinda amateurish.Mace's emotional state led him to become far more deeply immersed in Vaapad that seemingly before as well.

Pretty much, if you gotta discuss someone's amps vs non amps? They aren't the most consistent.

Mace never lost a duel though afaik.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Mace never lost a duel though afaik.


That doesn't make him consistent. He gets stalemated by some relatively minor duelists, and then he almost beats Sidious.

Originally posted by Q99
That doesn't make him consistent. He gets stalemated by some relatively minor duelists, and then he almost beats Sidious.

Sora minor?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Sora minor?

Compared to everyone else yes.

Sora Bulq is one the greatest lightsaber instructors in the Jedi Order's history, and was one of the few individuals capable of "mastering" Vaapad (which he also helped to create.)

He is pretty high profile.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Sora Bulq is one the greatest lightsaber instructors in the Jedi Order's history, and was one of the few individuals capable of "mastering" Vaapad (which he also helped to create.)

He is pretty high profile.

That's a rather vague terms since several masters are given that title. Still notable accolade though.

Well, he did, but there were reasons for it.

I might say Sidious too, but undoubtedly someone's going to either bring up Luke in DE or Mace in RotS, and I really don't have the patience for another one of those debates.

Dooku.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Dooku.

I was going to say him but then I thought he lost to quin Lin Vos.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I was going to say him but then I thought he lost to quin Lin Vos.
kek

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I was going to say him but then I thought he lost to quin Lin Vos.

Oh shit you're right. >_<

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Sora minor?

Compared to Mace, yes.

Sora lost to non-DD Vos, and can you actually name any noteworthy wins Bulq has?

Ventress also held off Mace a bit.

^ Not to mention Bulq got utterly stomped by Dooku.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yoda, I guess. How is Yoda more consistent than Sidious?

Palpatine's showings in DE are all over the place. I don't think I've ever seen Yoda fare better or worse than the norm in any of his material.

Originally posted by Sinious
How is Yoda more consistent than Sidious?

Mace statemates Talzin for several minutes. Sidious stomps her in seconds stating she "lacks Dooku's skills". Sidious loses to Mace...pretty damned inconsistent for all the characters.

Dooku and Mace are far from being "consistent".

I would agree, that Yoda is.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace statemates Talzin for several minutes. Sidious stomps her in seconds stating she "lacks Dooku's skills". Sidious loses to Mace...pretty damned inconsistent for all the characters.

There is nothing inconsistent here. Dooku stomped a guy, who Mace stalemated. Dooku stomped Ventress, while Mace couldn't. Dooku had much easier time against Grievous. And still, it was a tie between him and Mace.
Sidiois let himself to be beaten, or Mace had an incredible amp. On neutral ground/circumstances Mace was inferior to Sidious.

Originally posted by McP
There is nothing inconsistent here.

Precisely.

Originally posted by McP
Dooku stomped a guy, who Mace stalemated. Dooku stomped Ventress, while Mace couldn't. Dooku had much easier time against Grievous. And still, it was a tie between him and Mace.


People on this board need to learn about the importance of circumstances and variable factors.

1) Dooku defeated Bulq through Force powers, not duelling. Additionally Bulq and Mace had worked together to develop Vaapad so Bulq had a much better understanding of how Mace fights, an edge he didn't have against Dooku.

Also technically Mace defeated Bulq the same way as Dooku, with Force powers. Mace slammed him with a Force push that briefly put him out of action. Had Mace not had to leave to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk he could have finished Bulq off right there.

2) Asajj ran from Mace because she was no match for him. She admitted that fleeing was her only option.

3) Dooku trained Grievous and so knew how he fought. Of course he'd have an easier time against him. Familiarity with the opponent is a huge edge.

Originally posted by Q99
Sora lost to non-DD Vos

Only due to an unexpected development. Quinlan was preoccupied with battling his inner darkness. Bulq saw he was vulnerable and so left himself open. Ayla contacted Quinlan on the mental plane and helped him overcome his darkness just in time for him to strike Bulq down while he was open.

Put simply, Quinlan didn't straight-up out-fight him. He just took advantage of a brief window of opportunity presented by circumstances.

Also Bulq had only recently turned to the dark side when he fought Mace and so still had much of his discipline. By the time he fought Quinlan Bulq had been steeped in the dark side for three years and had lost his focus, becoming just a berserker.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace statemates Talzin for several minutes. Sidious stomps her in seconds stating she "lacks Dooku's skills".

Talzin fought Palpatine while possessing Dooku, meaning that:

A) Dooku may have been subconsciously resisting the possession (pure speculation but feasible).

B) Talzin was trying to fight in an unfamiliar body.

C) She was trying to use a weapon she was unfamiliar with. Say you're an expert with a Chinese jian. Now say you have to fight with a Japanese katana or a British longsword. Both are completely different to the weapon that you're used to. They handle differently, they're balanced differently, they require different stances etc.

When she fought Mace she had none of these handicaps.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
1) Dooku defeated Bulq through Force powers, not duelling.
I disagree. Dooku easily disarmed Bulq from his shoto. He probablu also could beat him in a duel, with not much of difficulty (espiecially without Tholme's presence).

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Mace slammed him with a Force push that briefly put him out of action. Had Mace not had to leave to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk he could have finished Bulq off right there.
So, in the same way, should we assume that Maul defeated Kenobi in Florrum's cave? Hard to tell. Sora also pushed Mace onto wall. Besides that, Mace agreed with Sora that a real battle was not between them both, so Bulq could be conscious. Not sure however, that's just one of many possibilities.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
2) Asajj ran from Mace because she was no match for him. She admitted that fleeing was her only option.
There is another comic, basing on TCW (for a young reader though) when Mace faces Ventress and she's able to hold her own.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
3) Dooku trained Grievous and so knew how he fought. Of course he'd have an easier time against him. Familiarity with the opponent is a huge edge.
Perhaps. Or perhaps he didn't teach Grievous how to fight Makashi's user properly (that's unlikely since Grievous did well against Shaak Ti - however I consider it as opposite to canon since I prefer Luceno's version - more stable, consistent and in my opinion just much better then Tartakovky's CW). On the other hand, Mace was a master of a form, that was considererd as unconventional. And Grievous spared with Dooku so he knew some of his moves as well.


Originally posted by chilled monkey
A) Dooku may have been subconsciously resisting the possession (pure speculation but feasible).
Unlikely. It was stated that she had full control of his body as I remember.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
B) Talzin was trying to fight in an unfamiliar body.
Yeah, might be true. But on the other hand, hard to tell if she would be killed, if Dooku's body would be mortally wounded. If not, then she could assault Sidious without even trying to defend herself. Also, Sidious didn't want to kill Dooku in that fight, so she also had some advantages. There is so many things to analyse in that fight.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
When she fought Mace she had none of these handicaps.
Are you sure? It was suggested in SoD, that she sacrificed much of her powers to heal Maul. She could be in a terribly weakened state when she confronted Mace.

Well ,I have to agree ,Mace Windu .
Yoda is a teacher,a sage at heart,and he doesn't like to fight.
nor does he like to use his lightsaber.

my second choice would be Count Dooku. With Sora,Depa,and Quinlan
neck and neck for third.

Asaja Ventress my personal 4th.
Even Master Yoda acknowledges Sora Bulq's influence and abilities.
I wouldn't consider him a minor,a berserker maybe, but a minor not by a long shot.

He has trained many Jedi to be lightsaber duelists.
His complete story was never told.
Depa Billiba also.

I agree with Beniboybling on this one.
The Amp or Vaapad's Force amplification could be achieved in any duel against any dark sider.
I've been saying this for a long time.

Djem So starts off with using your emotions,Juyo takes it to another level, Juyo is the Mastery of control not the loss of it. Vaapad,goes beyond Djem So and Juyo.

Speaking of consistent and non,So we can rule out Anakin's and Vader's amp through the Dark
side and rage right?

Anakin's amp being Force enhanced strength to better use Djem So's brute strength or brute force?
Vader's amp physical amp being his Sith Alchemied Armor and Cybernetic limbs,
And the Sith's basic technique of feeding off the Dark Side,
Feeding off fear ,pain, and etc?

Respectfully and realistically looking at it from all angles.
The Amplification is not just Mace/Vaapad but Anakin/Vader and Palpatine as well.
But emotion which fuels Djem So,Juyo,Vaapad,and the Dark Side.

So if we rule out Mace then Anakin,Vader,and Palpatine should be ruled out as well.
But realistically and respectfully I won't debate this any further.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Precisely.



People on this board need to learn about the importance of circumstances and variable factors.

1) Dooku defeated Bulq through Force powers, not duelling. Additionally Bulq and Mace had worked together to develop Vaapad so Bulq had a much better understanding of how Mace fights, an edge he didn't have against Dooku.

Also technically Mace defeated Bulq the same way as Dooku, with Force powers. Mace slammed him with a Force push that briefly put him out of action. Had Mace not had to leave to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk he could have finished Bulq off right there.

2) Asajj ran from Mace because she was no match for him. She admitted that fleeing was her only option.

3) Dooku trained Grievous and so knew how he fought. Of course he'd have an easier time against him. Familiarity with the opponent is a huge edge.



Only due to an unexpected development. Quinlan was preoccupied with battling his inner darkness. Bulq saw he was vulnerable and so left himself open. Ayla contacted Quinlan on the mental plane and helped him overcome his darkness just in time for him to strike Bulq down while he was open.

Put simply, Quinlan didn't straight-up out-fight him. He just took advantage of a brief window of opportunity presented by circumstances.

Also Bulq had only recently turned to the dark side when he fought Mace and so still had much of his discipline. By the time he fought Quinlan Bulq had been steeped in the dark side for three years and had lost his focus, becoming just a berserker.



Talzin fought Palpatine while possessing Dooku, meaning that:

A) Dooku may have been subconsciously resisting the possession (pure speculation but feasible).

B) Talzin was trying to fight in an unfamiliar body.

C) She was trying to use a weapon she was unfamiliar with. Say you're an expert with a Chinese jian. Now say you have to fight with a Japanese katana or a British longsword. Both are completely different to the weapon that you're used to. They handle differently, they're balanced differently, they require different stances etc.

When she fought Mace she had none of these handicaps.

I agree.

Dooku taught Grievous the Jedi Arts.
And in his duel with Mace he learned an unknown fraction,a percentage of Vaapad.
Which Mace deemed passable.

Dooku(imo) knew that Juyo was weak against Force attacks.
If that was the chosen style Sora used when he blindingly (imo)again charged at Dooku
like Anakin did and got a hand full of Force lightning which rendered them both
unconscious.

I mean that's what the pic showed .
I didn't see them duel. to be honest.

From my understanding I think Sora wanted to join Dooku.
But had to sell the stunt to Tholme by taking himself out the duel which left Tholme alone to fight Dooku.

Unless Sora underestimated Dooku abilities and charged blindingly into a fight he couldn't win.
Who knows, it was said Sora had already fallen to the darkside possibly through the refinement of Vaapad.

i feel like the most consistent duelist is probably Obi and Kyle.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
i feel like the most consistent duelist is probably Obi and Kyle.

Mm, in RotS alone, Kenobi got KOed by Dooku (while Dooku had other things to worry about), then beat the one who beat Dooku.

Originally posted by Q99
Mm, in RotS alone, Kenobi got KOed by Dooku (while Dooku had other things to worry about), then beat the one who beat Dooku.

True, but he performed much better than he did in AOTC, and he himself(in old EU) notes that he finds it difficult to keep a Barrier while fighting so yeh.

He was nearly stomped by Dooku in TCWs6.
He was overhelmed by Savage in TCWs4 (Maul was a small discraction there though), and then took out Savage's arm in S5 (Savage was even supported by Maul)
Also, from what I hread, that unfinished episodes of TCW (utapau story) are also a canon. And Kenobi was stomped by Grievous there. Even in Legends, he had a lot of inconsistent showings, mostly against Ventress (at it should be noted, that he was also disarmed by her in TCW)

Eh. I'd counter it but I'm half awake so

Kenobi's certainly not the most consistent fighter.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
True, but he performed much better than he did in AOTC, and he himself(in old EU) notes that he finds it difficult to keep a Barrier while fighting so yeh.


Which is part of the reason he's inconsistent.

Once he's analyzed a foe and has their number, he'll really mess them up (Savage, Anakin, A'Sharad). If not, he can receive a good boot to the face.

Good analysis.

You missed out Grievous and Maul, which also fit your theory.

Originally posted by McP
Hard to tell. Sora also pushed Mace onto wall.


The difference being that when Mace got Force-pushed he immediately bounced back. When Bulq was on the receiving end he was KO'd or at least stunned.

Big difference.

Originally posted by McP
Besides that, Mace agreed with Sora that a real battle was not between them both, so Bulq could be conscious. Not sure however, that's just one of many possibilities.


There is room for interpretation, granted, but I'm pretty sure that was just Mace thinking aloud. I find it hard to imagine that Bulq would just stand there and allow Mace to go off to save Jeisel and K'Kruhk (yes I know he boasted that whoever won Mace's mission would fail but that was just hot air), meaning that he was at least dazed for a few moments.


Originally posted by McP
Yeah, might be true. But on the other hand, hard to tell if she would be killed, if Dooku's body would be mortally wounded. If not, then she could assault Sidious without even trying to defend herself. Also, Sidious didn't want to kill Dooku in that fight, so she also had some advantages. There is so many things to analyse in that fight.


Very true.

Originally posted by McP

Perhaps. Or perhaps he didn't teach Grievous how to fight Makashi's user properly (that's unlikely since Grievous did well against Shaak Ti - however I consider it as opposite to canon since I prefer Luceno's version - more stable, consistent and in my opinion just much better then Tartakovky's CW).

I will note in the Tartakovky Grievous vs Shaak Ti fight, she'd been chasing him for like 10 minutes and took on over a dozen Magnadroids, sustaining a number of wounds in the process before he went to take her on.


If she was at even 60% of her full, I'd be surprised.


Kinda like how in SoD, he send four magnadroids to tire Maul before facing him, and that apparently had some effect even though it was a mere 4.

Originally posted by Q99
I will note in the Tartakovky Grievous vs Shaak Ti fight, she'd been chasing him for like 10 minutes and took on over a dozen Magnadroids, sustaining a number of wounds in the process before he went to take her on.


If she was at even 60% of her full, I'd be surprised.


Kinda like how in SoD, he send four magnadroids to tire Maul before facing him, and that apparently had some effect even though it was a mere 4.

Grievous himself comments "you're tired Jedi."

Vader's consistent in struggling against featless Jedi

Originally posted by SunRazer
Vader's consistent in struggling against featless Jedi

To be fair being "feat-less" doesn't necessarily make them inferior. It just means they haven't had the chance to show what they're capable of.

Originally posted by Q99
I will note in the Tartakovky Grievous vs Shaak Ti fight, she'd been chasing him for like 10 minutes and took on over a dozen Magnadroids, sustaining a number of wounds in the process before he went to take her on.


If she was at even 60% of her full, I'd be surprised.


Kinda like how in SoD, he send four magnadroids to tire Maul before facing him, and that apparently had some effect even though it was a mere 4.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
i feel like the most consistent duelist is probably Obi
https://media.giphy.com/media/KmrpxSVxTB9Ty/giphy.gif

That's a Bantha-level comment right there.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
To be fair being "feat-less" doesn't necessarily make them inferior. It just means they haven't had the chance to show what they're capable of.


One thing I do like in the new canon is it lacks the many, many 'unknown Jedi faces Vader puts up a good fight,' examples.

The only Jedi that Vader have faced outside the movies is Kanan.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Kenobi's certainly not the most consistent fighter. It's Vader who was inconsistent.

Darth Sidious.