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who wins

both at full power

Originally posted by SWblayde938
who wins

both at full power You've ben told several times to stop posting these threads in the CBvF. Moved.

Damn Sora rapes Luke. Like he just shoves the whole keyblade up there. No lube or anything.

Yeah Luke in the movies gets utterly destroyed. Dunno how EU Luke fares.

If Luke catches him with TK, he loses.

Unless its someone like Superman or Goku, you can't pit humans against Force Users from the SW Verse.

Luke is not catching Sora with TK lol. Luke might be able to react to lasers but Sora can outrace them and shoot a beam of light that is faster than any laser Luke has ever faced.

In the movies anyway. EU Luke might be a completely different story.

Blaster bolts aren't even lasers. They're literally bolts of concentrated energy. For example, a blaster pistol shoots bolts at about 15m/s(33 mph). That's why a lot of less famous Jedi have problems with slugthrowers(Star Wars version of modern guns) since the slugs come out a lot faster than blaster bolts and aren't glowing so you can see them.

EU Luke however has batted aside turbolaser fire from the Millenium Falcon, which are about 180,700m/s(404,214 mph) if not faster as the number was based on Leia's blockade runner and the Falcon is heavily modified. And he was fighting with Jacen so fast that even other Force Users couldn't see them. They just saw flashes of light from when their lightsabers hit each other.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
If Luke catches him with TK, he loses.

Unless its someone like Superman or Goku, you can't pit humans against Force Users from the SW Verse.

Droids and clones did a pretty solid job against jedi in the prequals.

Originally posted by KingD19
Blaster bolts aren't even lasers. They're literally bolts of concentrated energy. For example, a blaster pistol shoots bolts at about 15m/s(33 mph). That's why a lot of less famous Jedi have problems with slugthrowers(Star Wars version of modern guns) since the slugs come out a lot faster than blaster bolts and aren't glowing so you can see them.

EU Luke however has batted aside turbolaser fire from the Millenium Falcon, which are about 180,700m/s(404,214 mph) if not faster as the number was based on Leia's blockade runner and the Falcon is heavily modified. And he was fighting with Jacen so fast that even other Force Users couldn't see them. They just saw flashes of light from when their lightsabers hit each other.

That wasn't fighting jacen, that was fighting the leader of the Vong the supreme leader shinrra something, atleast as far as I recall, but yeah EU Luke is a monster, though I think based on the force awakens comic that movie Luke in time, will become so as well.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Luke is not catching Sora with TK lol. Luke might be able to react to lasers but Sora can outrace them and shoot a beam of light that is faster than any laser Luke has ever faced.

In the movies anyway. EU Luke might be a completely different story. Regardless, all Luke needs to do really, is move his hand in Sora's direction and twitch his fingers ever so slightly.

Sora will get caught off guard at some point, and he isn't getting close enough to kill Luke.

Sora has never been FTL, based on what we've seen from well, all he's done, besides the Final Fight scene with Xemnas.

Oh believe me, I think he's fast, but after extensively playing every single Kingdom Hearts game ever made over the years, he isn't outrunning the hand of one of the greatest force users ever. Period.

He isn't fast enough to get to Luke before Luke can grab him with TK.

Sora is faster the ROTJ Luke dude. Sora can basically teleport in some cases.

Also even if he wasn't fast enough to tag Luke, which he is, it is not in Luke's character to just TK his opponents. He goes in sword swinging in every case I can recall. He'll try to duel Sora and he will lose lol.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Sora is faster the ROTJ Luke dude. Sora can basically teleport in some cases.

Also even if he wasn't fast enough to tag Luke, which he is, it is not in Luke's character to just TK his opponents. He goes in sword swinging in every case I can recall. He'll try to duel Sora and he will lose lol. Show me one instance where Sora can teleport without some special object.

Sora isn't faster then Luke's arm moving in his direction.

We had this same discussion awhile back in the movie versus forum with Darth Vader and Spiderman, some people thought Vader was too slow to catch Spidey with his TK, but eventually everyone conceded and accepted that there was no way Spidey was outrunning Vader's arm.

Let's say Sora IS fast enough to outrun Luke's arm/fingers, what are the chances Sora won't accidentally move into Luke's range and and get tossed into a wall.

We aren't here to talk about their character, I have no idea why you'd even mention that, since the way they act is no concern to a versus thread. It doesn't matter if he doesn't use it much, the fact that he CAN is a big game changer.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Show me one instance where Sora can teleport without some special object.

Sora isn't faster then Luke's arm moving in his direction.

We had this same discussion awhile back in the movie versus forum with Darth Vader and Spiderman, some people thought Vader was too slow to catch Spidey with his TK, but eventually everyone conceded and accepted that there was no way Spidey was outrunning Vader's arm.

Let's say Sora IS fast enough to outrun Luke's arm/fingers, what are the chances Sora won't accidentally move into Luke's range and and get tossed into a wall.

We aren't here to talk about their character, I have no idea why you'd even mention that, since the way they act is no concern to a versus thread. It doesn't matter if he doesn't use it much, the fact that he CAN is a big game changer.

Sora teleports against Xaldin.

Sora teleports against Xigbar at the beginning of the fight and when using Warp Snipe.

Sora vs the teleporting Sephiroth.

Sora vs Roxas, guy who bombards you with light based attacks.

Also before you say that Roxas's attacks aren't lightspeed(despite Light being the basis for his moveset), we have a controlled example of a Sora's light reaching the moon in an actual second. A light attack he has used in combat by the by.

A few other favorites: Sora vanquishes all heads of the Hydra in a flash, Sora fights a guy who rides a vehicle as fast as the Gummi Ship, and of course there is the classic Sora blocks a barrage of lasers from all sides.

And the reason I bring Luke's character up is because how a character fights is almost as important as what they can do because it shows us how this character prefers to do things. Luke actually makes it easier than most. ROTJ gives us a bloodlusted Luke wailing at Vader with his lightsaber until just chopping his hand off. He doesn't have much experience throwing dudes around with the Force but chopping people up he can do no problem.

Every SINGLE example you gave, was him teleporting under special circumstances, and using his opponents weapons against them. NOT Sora himself. Sora can't teleport on his own, and none of the examples you listed can prove that he can.

Sora is not outrunning Luke's hand, he just isn't.

"In a flash" isn't as fast as you might think.

Samurai Jack consistently kills large numbers of people "In a flash", but it doesn't make him faster then Luke Skywalker, Kenshin Himura does it.

Pretty much almost any cartoon/anime swordsman you can think of has done that feat at least once, it doesn't mean anything.

Sora had Riku's help for that, and even then, the lasers weren't moving nearly as fast as real life bullets.

Light based attacks, aren't always FTL, in fact, they rarely are.

The dude in my sig is one example, Light-Based attacks out the ass, he is literally the embodiment of Light in the FF universe, yet not one of his attacks make him FTL.

Sora's physical strength is too much for luke to hold him down. The biggest thing luke has lifted is c3-p0. He technically doesn't even to move is arm, but it won't matter.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Every SINGLE example you gave, was him teleporting under special circumstances, and using his opponents weapons against them. NOT Sora himself. Sora can't teleport on his own, and none of the examples you listed can prove that he can.

Sora is not outrunning Luke's hand, he just isn't.

"In a flash" isn't as fast as you might think.

Samurai Jack consistently kills large numbers of people "In a flash", but it doesn't make him faster then Luke Skywalker, Kenshin Himura does it.

Pretty much almost any cartoon/anime swordsman you can think of has done that feat at least once, it doesn't mean anything.

Sora had Riku's help for that, and even then, the lasers weren't moving nearly as fast as real life bullets.

Elaborate on how Sora is using his opponents abilities against them because I see no reason to assume it is not the Keyblade. Keyblade wielders can very much teleport. It is Vanitas's bread and butter(he actually is FTL based on his space traveling). Also I notice that you never argued against Sora reacting to the Lingering Will's FTL vehicle or Sephiroth's teleporting.

Sora is not outrunning Luke's hand because reasons. Truly a compelling case.

Samurai Jack is also faster than movie Luke.

It does because characters still have feats. Let's take two swordsmen and compare them. Say....Zoro and Kenshin. Are you really going to argue that they are equals in speed just because they're flashy? Of course not lol.

If you don't press Riku's button, only Riku gets hit. Sora has also reacted to bullets before and that attack was from a guy who created his own pocket dimension. Gonna say they're faster than bullets.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Light based attacks, aren't always FTL, in fact, they rarely are.

The dude in my sig is one example, Light-Based attacks out the ass, he is literally the embodiment of Light in the FF universe, yet not one of his attacks make him FTL.

Did his laser beam go from the ground to the moon in under a second? Sora's did. Feats are feats and this feat is actually pretty accurate. It takes light almost exactly one second to go from the moon to earth.

Anyone who has played KH2, especially the final battle, knows Sora is HILARIOUSLY above anyone in the movies.

Come on now, go watch the final fight on youtube and tell me the shit you see in it is something movie Luke could do. Sora swats around large chunks of buildings like nothing.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Elaborate on how Sora is using his opponents abilities against them because I see no reason to assume it is not the Keyblade. Keyblade wielders can very much teleport. It is Vanitas's bread and butter(he actually is FTL based on his space traveling). Also I notice that you never argued against Sora reacting to the Lingering Will's FTL vehicle or Sephiroth's teleporting.

Sora is not outrunning Luke's hand because reasons. Truly a compelling case.

Samurai Jack is also faster than movie Luke.

It does because characters still have feats. Let's take two swordsmen and compare them. Say....Zoro and Kenshin. Are you really going to argue that they are equals in speed just because they're flashy? Of course not lol.

If you don't press Riku's button, only Riku gets hit. Sora has also reacted to bullets before and that attack was from a guy who created his own pocket dimension. Gonna say they're faster than bullets.



Did his laser beam go from the ground to the moon in under a second? Sora's did. Feats are feats and this feat is actually pretty accurate. It takes light almost exactly one second to go from the moon to earth. Lol @ The Non-Canon fight from KH2FM against Lingering Will being canon. No one in any KH game ever mentions it again, its never brought up in any of the other games, or even hinted at, so I have no reason to believe its canon, nor does anyone else.

Yeah, Riku is getting hit, because he's guarding Sora's back from the other side.

I was pointing out the "In a flash" thing, because you seemed to think it was a big deal, it isn't.

Sora is never able to use such teleporting abilities except against certain opponents, and you can clearly see him grab one of Xaldin's lances and use it against him, same with Xigbar, so on and so forth. He never uses those abilities outside of those respective fights, and each time, they're a different type of teleportation.

I never argued that Keyblade Wielders can't teleport, I'm just saying Sora can't on his own.

Reacting to teleportation doesn't equal having teleportation. There's no clear guarantee Luke wouldn't be able to react to Sora teleporting either.

Will have to look up the moon feat and then come back.

Lol wait, are you talking about the heart-shaped moon in The World that Never Was?

WTF?!

****in' thing was not even 20 feet away, it certainly wasn't 80 Million Kilometers away.

If you're talking about something else, please enlighten me.

You're right, I can't prove that Luke can catch Sora with TK, but at this point in time, you can't prove he wouldn't either.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Lol @ The Non-Canon fight from KH2FM against Lingering Will being canon. No one in any KH game ever mentions it again, its never brought up in any of the other games, or even hinted at, so I have no reason to believe its canon, nor does anyone else.

Yeah, Riku is getting hit, because he's guarding Sora's back from the other side.

I was pointing out the "In a flash" thing, because you seemed to think it was a big deal, it isn't.

Sora is never able to use such teleporting abilities except against certain opponents, and you can clearly see him grab one of Xaldin's lances and use it against him, same with Xigbar, so on and so forth. He never uses those abilities outside of those respective fights, and each time, they're a different type of teleportation.

I never argued that Keyblade Wielders can't teleport, I'm just saying Sora can't on his own.

Reacting to teleportation doesn't equal having teleportation. There's no clear guarantee Luke wouldn't be able to react to Sora teleporting either.

Will have to look up the moon feat and then come back.

Still something he can do in the game.

Sora also gets hit if you do not press Sora's button. Dancing around the issue is nice. You might also have a point if Sora and Riku stood in place the whole time but they didn't.

You're saying you don't like my word choices? Fine. Sora cut off the Hydra's head really really quickly. Much better phrasing.

You're saying he used their abilities but not how he used them. Particularly Xigbar.

Sora is a Keyblade Weider.

Luke didn't react to Fett tangling up his hands. Sora is just a little bit faster that a grappling hook.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Lol wait, are you talking about the heart-shaped moon in The World that Never Was?

WTF?!

****in' thing was not even 20 feet away, it certainly wasn't 80 Million Kilometers away.

If you're talking about something else, please enlighten me.

You're right, I can't prove that Luke can catch Sora with TK, but at this point in time, you can't prove he wouldn't either.

I literally link it to you up there. It is in Halloweentown.

Besides Sora being significantly more impressive in terms of speed than Luke or anything Luke has ever faced, no I can't prove it.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Still something he can do in the game.

Sora also gets hit if you do not press Sora's button. Dancing around the issue is nice. You might also have a point if Sora and Riku stood in place the whole time but they didn't.

You're saying you don't like my word choices? Fine. Sora cut off the Hydra's head really really quickly. Much better phrasing.

You're saying he used their abilities but not how he used them. Particularly Xigbar.

Sora is a Keyblade Weider.

Luke didn't react to Fett tangling up his hands. Sora is just a little bit faster that a grappling hook.



I literally link it to you up there. It is in Halloweentown.

Besides Sora being significantly more impressive in terms of speed than Luke or anything Luke has ever faced, no I can't prove it.

A KeyHole is not a valid representation of any of Sora's powers.

About a year ago, I tried to do a thread on Galactus vs Ghost Rider, but since my evidence wasn't canon, it didn't count. Being "Something he can do in the game" is not valid evidence, it needs to be CANON.

Because the bolts on the other side are being aimed at Riku.

All Organization members you see in the game are capable of teleporting, yet the only time Sora can use abilities like that is AGAINST Organization XIII, he doesn't teleport in any of the other games, and he only does it in the fights against them. It's also only a reactionary ability when Sora gets attacked by them. You want proof? Mmkay.

In Sora's fight against Xaldin, every time Sora teleported, he grabbed one of XALDIN's lances, which you can very clearly see in the fight.

In his fight against Xigbar, he's blocking one of his bolts back at him from different direction.

Why can't you use the ability against others then? Because Sora is incapable of doing it.

It doesn't matter which way you phrase it, the point I was trying to make was "moving really really quickly" isn't that impressive.

What does Sora being a Keyblade Wielder* have to do with anything?

Jmanghan have you ever played Kh2 from beginning to end?

Originally posted by Surtur
Jmanghan have you ever played Kh2 from beginning to end? i

Multiple playthroughs, yes.

Feel free to tell me what I'm wrong about though.

I'll wait.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
A KeyHole is not a valid representation of any of Sora's powers.

Because the bolts on the other side are being aimed at Riku.

All Organization members you see in the game are capable of teleporting, yet the only time Sora can use abilities like that is AGAINST Organization XIII, he doesn't teleport in any of the other games, and he only does it in the fights against them. It's also only a reactionary ability when Sora gets attacked by them. You want proof? Mmkay.

In Sora's fight against Xaldin, every time Sora teleported, he grabbed one of XALDIN's lances, which you can very clearly see in the fight.

In his fight against Xigbar, he's blocking one of his bolts back at him from different direction.

Why can't you use the ability against others then? Because Sora is incapable of doing it.

It doesn't matter which way you phrase it, the point I was trying to make was "moving really really quickly" isn't that impressive.

What does Sora being a Keyblade Wielder* have to do with anything?

Never said it was. The showing is not for the stationary keyhole but the beam of light.

Xemnas was aiming the bolts at both of them. You're nitpicking.

No, all of them can open portal's of darkness to go through. Not all of them are teleporting around in battles(like Sora can).

Xaldin I might give you but explain how Sora is possibly using Xigbar's bullets to move as quickly as he does?

The reason you can't use the ability in every battle is because KHII changes up the Reaction Commands frequently, never wanting the player to feel like he/she is doing the same stuff over and over again. As an example you're able to step on Barbossa's sword with a reaction command but it doesn't really give you that option against, say, Roxas or most anyone(except Demyx funnily enough). There are also story reasons. Hit any building in the game with your Keyblade and it'll bounce off because this game doesn't let you casually destroy environment. They let you cut buildings like butter at the end of the game to reward you for making it so far and to make you feel like a badass.

Moving really really quickly is faster than Luke.

Well the other Keyblade wielders can teleport because of the Keyblade. Sora has a Keyblade and can teleport at select points in the game. So Occam's Razor indicates Sora can teleport because the Keyblade allows it.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Never said it was. The showing is not for the stationary keyhole but the beam of light.

Xemnas was aiming the bolts at both of them. You're nitpicking.

No, all of them can open portal's of darkness to go through. Not all of them are teleporting around in battles(like Sora can).

Xaldin I might give you but explain how Sora is possibly using Xigbar's bullets to move as quickly as he does?

The reason you can't use the ability in every battle is because KHII changes up the Reaction Commands frequently, never wanting the player to feel like he/she is doing the same stuff over and over again. As an example you're able to step on Barbossa's sword with a reaction command but it doesn't really give you that option against, say, Roxas or most anyone(except Demyx funnily enough). There are also story reasons. Hit any building in the game with your Keyblade and it'll bounce off because this game doesn't let you casually destroy environment. They let you cut buildings like butter at the end of the game to reward you for making it so far and to make you feel like a badass.

Moving really really quickly is faster than Luke.

Well the other Keyblade wielders can teleport because of the Keyblade. Sora has a Keyblade and can teleport at select points in the game. So Occam's Razor indicates Sora can teleport because the Keyblade allows it. The Keyblade's beam of light isn't representative of Sora's speed, or power. Even if it was, he can't use it in battle, so that point is moot.

Then why doesn't Sora get hit by Xemnas' bolts on Riku's side? Because they are AIMED at Riku, none of the bolts aimed at Riku are even in Sora's line of fire.

If Riku wasn't there, Sora would have died, he isn't capable of speed like that.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
The Keyblade's beam of light isn't representative of Sora's speed, or power. Even if it was, he can't use it in battle, so that point is moot.

Then why doesn't Sora get hit by Xemnas' bolts on Riku's side? Because they are AIMED at Riku, none of the bolts aimed at Riku are even in Sora's line of fire.

If Riku wasn't there, Sora would have died, he isn't capable of speed like that.

Sora has used the Keyblade beam in battle. In cutscenes as a matter of fact. So that statement is clearly false.

You're obsessing over 1 showing when Sora has many more to support it. I haven't even begun to mention strength, flight, magic, or general showings. Sora has beaten gods and taken down an actual army on his own.

Your argument hinges on Luke being able to get Sora with the Force(to do what with I don't know because Luke has never choked fools like Vader was wont to do). Sora has been turned into a dice(or die if you prefer) and it didn't stop him.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Sora has used the Keyblade beam in battle. In cutscenes as a matter of fact. So that statement is clearly false.

You're obsessing over 1 showing when Sora has many more to support it. I haven't even begun to mention strength, flight, magic, or general showings. Sora has beaten gods and taken down an actual army on his own.

Your argument hinges on Luke being able to get Sora with the Force(to do what with I don't know because Luke has never choked fools like Vader was wont to do). Sora has been turned into a dice(or die if you prefer) and it didn't stop him.

Prove that Sora has used the beam in battle. I'm not gonna make your argument for you and search it up.

Sora has only beaten Hades and Hercules, FROM THE ****ING DISNEY UNIVERSE.

Luke can hold him against a wall, and cut him in half. Luxord's ability isn't connected to Sora's will, Stamina, or anything. If Luxord had done it to Luke, the same thing would have happened to Luke.

Sora has fought an army on his own, I'll give you that, but when the enemies he fought were that inferior to him, I mean, wtf???

I'm not saying Movie Luke is better, in MANY MANYYYY ways, Sora stomps him. But the minor inclusion of the force in ANY way, changes this battle completely, you can't put people who aren't Superman-level in terms of durability and strength against Star Wars Characters who have the force, you just can't.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Prove that Sora has used the beam in battle. I'm not gonna make your argument for you and search it up.

Sora has only beaten Hades and Hercules, FROM THE ****ING DISNEY UNIVERSE.

Luke can hold him against a wall, and cut him in half. Luxord's ability isn't connected to Sora's will, Stamina, or anything. If Luxord had done it to Luke, the same thing would have happened to Luke.

Sora has fought an army on his own, I'll give you that, but when the enemies he fought were that inferior to him, I mean, wtf???

I'm not saying Movie Luke is better, in MANY MANYYYY ways, Sora stomps him. But the minor inclusion of the force in ANY way, changes this battle completely, you can't put people who aren't Superman-level in terms of durability and strength against Star Wars Characters who have the force, you just can't.

Considering you hardly make an argument for your own stance this is hardly surprising. Sora used it against Xemnas, Ursula, and Zexion disguised as Sora used it as an attack. Might be other examples. Also you can get teleportation as an ability in CoM.

Hercules is strong enough to lift a Star Destroyer dude lol. He's also defeated Jafar, Ursula with the Trident, and a guy who casually made his own pocket dimension.

The very first boss battle in Kingdom Hearts II shows why holding a Keyblade wielder in place is a chore. They just break out of it.

Well I mean the Heartless are as far below Sora as the Storm Troopers are Luke. Recall the scene in AotC where the Jedi were surrounded by hundreds of Droids? Sora could have taken them all out on his own.

Why not? What has the Force done in these movies to make you think Sora won't speed blitz and be done with it?

Movie Luke is nothing. We can only use his feats from that movie and they aren't great in comparison. Luke didn't use the force offensively much at all. And he's nowhere near as fast as Sora.

Well we'd actually be able to use all his feats prior but yeah Luke is lacking.