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Kylo isn't wounded

Round 1: Lightsabers only

Round 2: Force

Round 3: All out

Duel takes place on neutral ground

No one??

Kanan probably edges out in sabers, but Kylo takes everything else.

Kylo in all.

Probably Kanan, though we never really see unwounded Kylo go up against another duelist.

Kanan. Kylo's laser bolt feat was impressive, but weakened or not, if he can't handle a glorified stormtrooper with a lightsaber without breaking a sweat, he's no match for Kanan. I think this attributes to Abrams having a more realistic view of forcewielders, but that doesn't alter the fact that his idea of the force and lightsaber dueling doesn't even come close to Lucas'.

We haven't seen an uninjured Kylo in a duel so it's hard to say. Logically, he should be more powerful. So i'm gonna role with him.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Kanan. Kylo's laser bolt feat was impressive, but weakened or not, if he can't handle a glorified stormtrooper with a lightsaber without breaking a sweat, he's no match for Kanan. I think this attributes to Abrams having a more realistic view of forcewielders, but that doesn't alter the fact that his idea of the force and lightsaber dueling doesn't even come close to Lucas'.


In his defense, I will note that Stormtroopers clearly get melee training now- like the riot trooper fight showed.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kylo in all.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Kylo in all.

Welcome back Ant

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kanan probably edges out in sabers, but Kylo takes everything else.

Kylo crushes him.

Kanan
Kylo
Kanan

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Kanan
Kylo
Kanan

^
That's much less laughtable then "Kylo in all three"

How can a guy, who got hited by a guy who lost to random stormtrooper in a meele fight can be able to beat Kanan?

S2 Ezra vs Kylo would be much better fight. In sabers only ofc.

It's really stupid that people think a Finn angry about Han dying and defending Rey is comparable to Finn any other time. You do realize he's a person right? Like the need to protect and seek vengeance can make people do pretty unbelievable things, especially since the novel confirms Kylo was weakened during their fight. And shot in the stomach. And bleeding. Where as the only victory we've seen Kanan have against another Force user was a one-off. I may think Kanan takes sabers, but he honestly gets shit on here.

Kanan takes sabers, Kylo takes force, all out it depends on the starting distance, but i think kylo wins. his saber skill is really awfull though, i mean , yes he was injured and probably upset since he had just killed his father, but still his perfomance was quite poor. For instance, Legend Vos, while severely injured due to order 66 and upset because he had just felt other jedi's death, was still able to kill a whole squad of clones who were trying to kill him, but Kylo couldn't even defeat easily someone who had been pretty much stomped by another stormtrooper earlier

>using Legends in a canon debate
>acting like a movie is comparable to a comic

Kanan beats him in sabers for sure. Ren seemed more powerful in force abilities though so the all out fight would be very close.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's really stupid that people think a Finn angry about Han dying and defending Rey is comparable to Finn any other time. You do realize he's a person right? Like the need to protect and seek vengeance can make people do pretty unbelievable things, especially since the novel confirms Kylo was weakened during their fight. And shot in the stomach. And bleeding. Where as the only victory we've seen Kanan have against another Force user was a one-off. I may think Kanan takes sabers, but he honestly gets shit on here.

It doesn't really matter. An angry non-force sensitive is still...non-force sensitive. It'd be like Han holding off Darth Vader because Chewbacca shot him. Its a pitiful showing lol.

Characters are in character here, and as we've seen Kylo rarely uses the force mid battle. So if Kanan closes the distance, yeah Kylo's gonna get ****ed up.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It doesn't really matter. An angry non-force sensitive is still...non-force sensitive. It'd be like Han holding off Darth Vader because Chewbacca shot him. Its a pitiful showing lol.

Characters are in character here, and as we've seen Kylo rarely uses the force mid battle. So if Kanan closes the distance, yeah Kylo's gonna get ****ed up. Kylo used the force mid battle against Rey the first time he met up with her.

Cad Bane beat Kenobi in a hand to hand battle after being disarmed in a clone wars episode. Bane isn't a force sensitive and neither was Jango Fett when he took Kenobi on. Kenobi is the same Jedi who defeated Darth Vader pre suit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kylo used the force mid battle against Rey the first time he met up with her.

And yet he fails to do so against Finn in the last battle. And before you say his wound diminished his ability to use the force, seconds earlier he TK'ed the shit out of Rey.



1. Pretty sure Kenobi was disarmed because he was caught off guard.
2. Cad Bane defeated him in hand to hand.
3. Even Pre Vizla who's likely had the darksaber for decades got his ass handed to him by Ahsoka. Sure when he fought Maul he gave him a harder fight, but only after he likely trained with it for a bit. Finn did no such training.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kylo used the force mid battle against Rey the first time he met up with her.

Cad Bane beat Kenobi in a hand to hand battle after being disarmed in a clone wars episode. Bane isn't a force sensitive and neither was Jango Fett when he took Kenobi on. Kenobi is the same Jedi who defeated Darth Vader pre suit.

I doubt Finn is on Bane's or Fett's level though

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It doesn't really matter. An angry non-force sensitive is still...non-force sensitive. It'd be like Han holding off Darth Vader because Chewbacca shot him. Its a pitiful showing lol.

Uh, no it's not. Kylo is never at any point comparable to Vader, in any area, to make this statement remotely accurate. Not to mention Vader is more durable than half the mythos.

Kylo uses the Force throughout his entire duel with Rey. He blocked Anakin's saber with his bare ****ing hands. And there's no way Kanan of all people is getting through that.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Uh, no it's not. Kylo is never at any point comparable to Vader, in any area, to make this statement remotely accurate.
Ren's comparable with film Vader easily.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And yet he fails to do so against Finn in the last battle. And before you say his wound diminished his ability to use the force, seconds earlier he TK'ed the shit out of Rey.

Obviously because he wanted to have a lightsaber duel. Theres no reason he'd "fail" to do so against Finn like he did Rey unless he actually wanted to.

The Clone Wars cartoon is filled with non force sensitives going toe to toe with Force users, even in melee. So is the EU. Calling it pitiful even when there's tons of mitigating circumstances is retarded.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ren's comparable with film Vader easily.
Sorry. Vader didn't lose to the very first Force user he met on screen. Or the second. Not to mention that wasn't what I said.

You said "any area", not a specific area i.e. dueling.

Well that's what I thought you said, and still do.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Obviously because he wanted to have a lightsaber duel. Theres no reason he'd "fail" to do so against Finn like he did Rey unless he actually wanted to.

As I've stated multiple times. Like Vader he doesn't elect to do that. I don't even remember if he used the force against Rey mid duel.



Grievous has a shit ton of cybernetic enhancements, and as I stated Pre-Vizla loses solidly to Ahsoka and Kenobi. Maul's the only one who lasts that long and that's because he gimps himself.

Its not retarded. No other main movie villain would fail that hard in the same circumstances. And its not just that scene, the entire movie Kylo is depicted as incompetent. Hux was vastly superior in terms of actually getting shit done even having to save Kylo's sorry ass.

I'm sure he'll be better in the next movie but he was a pitiful villain constantly getting one-upped by heroes. And sure you can argue 'well he's not fully trained' but the heroes have no training. Compare this to Maul, Dooku, Vader, and yes, even Grievous and he just...isn't intimidating.

I find it interesting how differently people think of TFA.

IMO Kylo is already a better antagonist than Vader and possibly Palpatine.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I find it interesting how differently people think of TFA.

IMO Kylo is already a better antagonist than Vader and possibly Palpatine.

How?

He throws temper tantrums when things don't go his way. He makes bad judgement calls throughout the movie. He fails in almost everything he does. Hux was far more terrifying imo.

Because unlike Vader, you actually hate him for what he does and says.

The torture scenes were scary as ****. I shivered when Kylo said:

"I see it... I see the island."

Then he literally kills Han Solo, his own ****ing father.

It's the saddest scene in Star Wars and Kylo Ren is directly responsible.

So, when we see him after that, all I can think of is "I hope this ****er dies."

I never thought that way about Darth Vader, nor about Palpatine TBH.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Grievous has a shit ton of cybernetic enhancements, and as I stated Pre-Vizla loses solidly to Ahsoka and Kenobi. Maul's the only one who lasts that long and that's because he gimps himself.

Its not retarded. No other main movie villain would fail that hard in the same circumstances. And its not just that scene, the entire movie Kylo is depicted as incompetent. Hux was vastly superior in terms of actually getting shit done even having to save Kylo's sorry ass.

I'm sure he'll be better in the next movie but he was a pitiful villain constantly getting one-upped by heroes. And sure you can argue 'well he's not fully trained' but the heroes have no training. Compare this to Maul, Dooku, Vader, and yes, even Grievous and he just...isn't intimidating.

Cad Bane has done well, Jango Fett has blitzed Jedi, young Boba took on Obi-Wan pretty well, pre-amp Savage got hits on Ventress in h2h, Vader got tagged by cyborgs recently iirc, Grevious lost to gungans....

Sure they may not have all done as well as Rey did, but if Obi-Wan had a massive blaster wound and a lightsaber hit I think that fight with Pre Viszla would have gone a lot differently.

Based on pure movie shit I'm really not convinced that if the other villains had that many disadvantages they'd do much better than Kylo did. Obi-Wan ****ing crumpled from two light grazes in AotC while Finn and Ren tanked way more damage and kept fighting. He was also exhausted and had his will weakened from killing his dad and his emotional instability.

Hux is a loser.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because unlike Vader, you actually hate him for what he does and says.

No way, I hate Hux far more for his fascist attitude and casual notions towards genocide.



Which entirely lost its threat when an untrained kid mind ****ed him. When Rey said 'you will never be as powerful as Darth Vader'. I wasn't like 'Rey is cool and powerful'. I was like this guy is essentially an entitled brat who's not even very skilled to back it up.

Then after she displayed telepathic abilities on par with or superior to his own he leaves her (even though he has millions of soldiers under his command) guarded by one soldier.



Which is not as bad as the death of Ben Kenobi at all considering for all we knew at the time he was the last of the Jedi.



No its not. I watched the Prequels before I watched the OT, and I can tell you Obi-Wan's death was just as sad if not more so. And I felt way more emotion when Ahsoka left the Jedi Order in TCWs. Not to mention I saw it coming from a mile away.



I never felt that way about Kylo. I felt bad for Kylo, he seems to be more of an entitled boy. Vader in the first film kills Luke's parental figures, kills Obi-Wan his father figure and Luke's wizard figure.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Because unlike Vader, you actually hate him for what he does and says.

The torture scenes were scary as ****. I shivered when Kylo said:

"I see it... I see the island."

Then he literally kills Han Solo, his own ****ing father.

It's the saddest scene in Star Wars and Kylo Ren is directly responsible.

So, when we see him after that, all I can think of is "I hope this ****er dies."

I never thought that way about Darth Vader, nor about Palpatine TBH.

Dude... What?

Who the hell is shivering in fear in a Star Wars movie? When there' some awkward dorky guy breathing heavy and stuttering in front of his crush?

The scene also had little emotional impact, because there was no established relationship between Ben and Han. As far as we know Kylo went bitchboy for no reason.

I don't have that feeling at all. I want this guy to grow, and slowly become more Vader-like tbh.

Palpatine and Vader are much more enjoyable as of now.

Yeah, Han's death was pretty ****ing obvious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Cad Bane has done well, Jango Fett has blitzed Jedi, young Boba took on Obi-Wan pretty well, pre-amp Savage got hits on Ventress in h2h, Vader got tagged by cyborgs recently iirc, Grevious lost to gungans....

Cad Bane does so with lots of tricks and gadgets. When in the films has Jango ever blitzed Jedi? If by pretty well you mean a lot of prep then yes.

xfyRUoxIG6Q

Even here Ahsoka whoops his ass until she gets cocky. Pre-amp Savage is still Force sensitive. And Cyborgs are...cyborgs that makes sense. Finn didn't have gadgets or tricks or prep. He flat out matched Kylo in a duel for some time.



I'd agree. But with just the blaster I think Kenobi would still win.





I'd agree but he was far more competent than Kylo was. Hux destroyed a massive Republic fleet and their capital. Kylo gets outmaneuvered and out played by a bunch of teenagers constantly.

up

bumping this after the last episode of Rebels

Kylo. Still.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kanan probably edges out in sabers, but Kylo takes everything else.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Kanan
Kylo
Kanan



Kylo is too much of an unknown currently for any other outcome.

bump

Kanan.
Kanan.
Kanan.

up

Kylo

Ren.

Kanan, Kylo isn't impressive.

Hahaha KMC hasn't changed a single bit