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My son (Marine...now pursuing degree to enter Air force as an officer) and I were discussing the whole "police out of control" thing and he raised a very pertinent question to which I didn't have an answer;

At what point does a person have a right to defend themselves against an officer of the law?

I don't personally know anyone working for law enforcement on any level so I haven't asked this to anyone in that profession.

IMO, if a cop breaks the law, disregards proper procedures, and violates civil liberties, a citizen should be allowed to defend themselves.

That said, I don't think that means "we should kill cops if they flex on us," rather it means what I said: "defend yourself."

The problem is though that in some ways defending yourself might give the cop an excuse to use lethal force on you.

For me when it comes to cops it is simple: do whatever they say and no sudden movements. If they are going to violate my civil liberties I'd rather fight it in court then trying to actually fight them.

But how can you defend yourself against an armed cop without killing him or getting yourself killed in the process?

Usually it is best to file a complaint with the police department and hire an attorney. If a cop becomes physically aggressive, just give into his demands. He has weapons that can kill you. I think all you can do is follow proper legal procedures.

I have also found being polite actually goes a long way. I am serious. I think it is because so few people are polite to cops.

Originally posted by Surtur
I have also found being polite actually goes a long way. I am serious. I think it is because so few people are polite to cops.

In my experience, if a cop takes an instant dislike to you, that politeness can easily be taken as being sarcastic back to them.

Over the years whenever my 2 brothers & myself travelled in a car together, we always got pulled over by cops in unmarked cars. This has happened on 3 seperate occasions.

And always the standard BS of "someone reported a robbery in the area & we fit the description."

The fact that on all 3 occasions we were polite to the officers & all our stories were the same when they questioned us individually as per the reason we were traveling together only seemed to aggravate them even more to warrant a search of the entire car, on all 3 incidents.

The fact that it was my brother's car & he worked in construction, all of a sudden every tool he had in his tool box became "a weapon" or "considered an implement to break into someone's house."

It took the cops at least 40 minutes to verify we had no criminal records & 2 phone calls, one to my brother's boss to verify he worked in construction & a second call to a family member to verify we were all going to a family reunion before they let us off.

You can't defend yourself unless you want to end up dead or in jail.

Let's take all guns from cops and have civil militias armed with the constitution and bill of rights.

Yeah, because THOSE would be sooo trustworthy.

====

As per OP, if you honestly feel like your life is in danger, then I'd say you have the right. Not sure what good it'll do you, though.

Originally posted by tru-marvell
At what point does a person have a right to defend themselves against an officer of the law?
I cant speak for everyone, just me.
If i feel my life is in danger, i'm going to rectify that situation. I'll (be alive to) deal with the ramifications of my actions later.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
In my experience, if a cop takes an instant dislike to you, that politeness can easily be taken as being sarcastic back to them.

Over the years whenever my 2 brothers & myself travelled in a car together, we always got pulled over by cops in unmarked cars. This has happened on 3 seperate occasions.

And always the standard BS of "someone reported a robbery in the area & we fit the description."

The fact that on all 3 occasions we were polite to the officers & all our stories were the same when they questioned us individually as per the reason we were traveling together only seemed to aggravate them even more to warrant a search of the entire car, on all 3 incidents.

The fact that it was my brother's car & he worked in construction, all of a sudden every tool he had in his tool box became "a weapon" or "considered an implement to break into someone's house."

It took the cops at least 40 minutes to verify we had no criminal records & 2 phone calls, one to my brother's boss to verify he worked in construction & a second call to a family member to verify we were all going to a family reunion before they let us off.

Well it doesn't always work, but it can help.

Originally posted by Mindset
You can't defend yourself unless you want to end up dead or in jail.

Mindset: Origin one-shot.

Before his rapist career, Mindset was a rape victim. 100% canon.

That is nonsense we all know women don't rape men. All the instances of women raping men are just fabrications

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Mindset: Origin one-shot.

Before his rapist career, Mindset was a rape victim. 100% canon. There was no rape before me.

I am the alpha and the omega.

Originally posted by Mindset
There was no rape before me.

I am the alpha and the omega.
Godlike quote, TBH.

Like I said before..I'd rather just cooperate and if the cop does something wrong I can just file a complaint.

Like I said just be polite, if this for whatever reason causes the cop to get even more pissed off..well it will just give you even MORE of a case when you complain.

People need to obey cops within reason. If a cop tells you to sacrifice your first born child to appease him then yes that is a problem. If he tells you to shut the f*ck up and not move, then do so. If he tells you to put your god damn cigarette out DO SO. Cigarettes are not in danger of not existing, you can light up that cig again once your business with the cop is done.

It's not rocket science: obey what you are told within reason. My parents never had to sit me down and tell me how to behave around cops and no it's not because I'm white and they just felt I'd never have any issues, it's because they knew I wasn't stupid enough to f*cking not listen to the cops.

The topic of cops carrying body cams came up in another topic.

It's compulsory for cops in Australia to be equipped with body cameras as part of their uniforms.

But apparently in America, both cops & their unions see it as a negative idea. That footage can be used against the cops themselves is the prime objection.

It's like the unions are saying, "Ideally you should be a good cop. But if you happen to be a "bad" one then we'll still fight for your right not to have a body cam in case it shows footage that can be used against you."

Since every cop is armed this question is basically "when is it okay to kill a cop", since every situation is automatically a 10.

Originally posted by Surtur
The problem is though that in some ways defending yourself might give the cop an excuse to use lethal force on you.

For me when it comes to cops it is simple: do whatever they say and no sudden movements. If they are going to violate my civil liberties I'd rather fight it in court then trying to actually fight them.

This. Be respectful and polite without being sarcastic. It may piss them off, but at least you live through the ordeal. Fighting them and being argumentative will only at best get you arrested, and at worst, killed. Doesn't seem worth it to me.