Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

For this thread, let's stick to ONLY the 7 movies of Star Wars. If the fighters weren't allowed to use the force and were restricted to purely sword fighting, how would the rankings go? Fighters are:


Darth Sidius
Darth Vader (as per Episode VI)
Darth Maul
Kylo Ren
Count Dooku
General Grevious
Anakin (Pre-Vader as per Episode III)
Obi Wan
Qui Gon
Yoda
Mace Windu
Rey


Please feel free to include anyone else I missed.

Mace or Yoda... If made to choose... yoda I suppose

iirc, Mace was touted as the most skilled Jedi with a sabre in the PT. Obi's comment to Anakin that if he had trained and focused more he'd rival Mace's sabre-skills and have Yoda's wisdom, can't recall it verbatim, but it was something to that effect. Was in epII.

Obi Wan.. he's got the best track record out of all of these guys...beat 2 Sith Lords and General Grievous

1. Sidious/Yoda
2.Darth Vader
3. Dooku/Windu/Anakin
4.Obi Wan
5. maul
6. grevious
7. Qui Gon
8. Kylo Ren
9. Rey

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious or Yoda Windu defeated Sidious. Yoda lost. Horrible list, sport.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
1. Sidious/Yoda
2.Darth Vader
3. Dooku/Windu/Anakin
4.Obi Wan
5. maul
6. grevious
7. Qui Gon
8. Kylo Ren
9. Rey

Curious why you'd put Obi Wan over Maul?

Originally posted by Robtard
iirc, Mace was touted as the most skilled Jedi with a sabre in the PT. Obi's comment to Anakin that if he had trained and focused more he'd rival Mace's sabre-skills and have Yoda's wisdom, can't recall it verbatim, but it was something to that effect. Was in epII.


https://youtu.be/IdSUKIFnYc8. 2:13-2:19

Originally posted by FrothByte
Curious why you'd put Obi Wan over Maul?

There really close TBH but I think Obi Wan with his defensive form and calmer mind and the fact he was able to take on an enraged Anakin however with circumstances backing him, I think he can take maul. Especially since as a Padawan he was able to hold his own without his amyser, he only got better as of ROTS.


What does your list look like?

Looks like the copy/paste broke the link

Originally posted by Robtard
Looks like the copy/paste broke the link

Darn, but Obi wan remarked if Anakin practiced more he would rival Yoda. Sorry for the Inconvenience.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
There really close TBH but I think Obi Wan with his defensive form and calmer mind and the fact he was able to take on an enraged Anakin however with circumstances backing him, I think he can take maul. Especially since as a Padawan he was able to hold his own without his amyser, he only got better as of ROTS. Maul bested him in the clone wars series and was always portrayed as superior to Kenobi. Maul got overconfident in APM. That's all.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul bested him in the clone wars series and was always portrayed as superior to Kenobi. Maul got overconfident in APM. That's all.

In the OP he said let's stick with just the seven movies, but even with TCW Obi wan took on maul evenly and had him and his brother down at one time.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In the OP he said let's stick with just the seven movies, but even with TCW Obi wan took on amul evenly and had him and his brother down at one time. Maul skill wise bested him as well. It's in the film. Kenobi was bfrd beaten in that very scene by Maul.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Darn, but Obi wan remarked if Anakin practiced more he would rival Yoda. Sorry for the Inconvenience.

No worries. Thought he mentioned both Yoda and Windu in that scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
No worries. Thought he mentioned both Yoda and Windu in that scene.

Originally posted by Robtard
No worries. Thought he mentioned both Yoda and Windu in that scene.

In that one he mentioned Yoda only, but when Anakin was helping Padme pack for Naboo he said as wise as Master Yoda and as Powerful as master Windu.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
In that one he mentioned Yoda only, but when Anakin was helping Padme pack for Naboo he said as wise as Master Yoda and as Powerful as master Windu.

Probably what I was thinking of then, been some time since I've seen the PT.

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably what I was thinking of then, been some time since I've seen the PT.

Cool. I applaud you know on your constant and thorough spanking of Quan everytime. 👍👏👍👏👍👏👍

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul bested him in the clone wars series and was always portrayed as superior to Kenobi. Maul got overconfident in APM. That's all.

God awful logic at work here. Kenobi has the Only conclusive dramatic victory in all of their fights. He turned maul into a pint sized midget as a Padawan. Maul has never ever beaten Kenobi in the same way. What's worse, he beat maul and savage at the same time while still not a master yet. Kenobi is conclusively above Maul.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
1. Sidious/Yoda
2.Darth Vader
3. Dooku/Windu/Anakin
4.Obi Wan
5. maul
6. grevious
7. Qui Gon
8. Kylo Ren
9. Rey

Nope. Vader is in no way above Windu... that's plain silly. Both mace and Yoda beat Windu in direct Saber combat. They are above him.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nope. Vader is in no way above Windu... that's plain silly. Both mace and Yoda beat Windu in direct Saber combat. They are above him.

Well I suppose when taking in its movies only, but with Vader's other canon feats yes. However your logic fails to see the context. Windu had Vaapad which elevated him to a certain point and his mindset was also not normal. If he fought Vader the outcome would be much different so I actually keep my position Vader would take Mace overall with all canon, but movies only yes I do see your point.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
God awful logic at work here. Kenobi has the Only conclusive dramatic victory in all of their fights. He turned maul into a pint sized midget as a Padawan. Maul has never ever beaten Kenobi in the same way. What's worse, he beat maul and savage at the same time while still not a master yet. Kenobi is conclusively above Maul. Not due to skill but due to arrogance. That doesn't make him more skilled. Maul bested him in the clone wars series multiple times. Bfr is a win, Abe.

Opress took on Kenobi and Anakin at the same time and didn't lose.

Originally posted by Robtard
Probably what I was thinking of then, been some time since I've seen the PT.

Weak.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
God awful logic at work here. Kenobi has the Only conclusive dramatic victory in all of their fights. He turned maul into a pint sized midget as a Padawan. Maul has never ever beaten Kenobi in the same way. What's worse, he beat maul and savage at the same time while still not a master yet. Kenobi is conclusively above Maul.

Obi Wan defeated Maul via surprise attack while Maul was massaging his ego. Doesn't change the fact that Obiwan was unable to defeat Maul in a straight up fight even with the help of his master.

Yoda is good but he couldn't get the job done against Dooku OR Sidious

Mace is also good but in the end he was bested, he's been stated to be on Dookus level and even if you believe he beats Sidous truly (he didn't) then you have to factor in his amp via Vaapad, which he wouldn't really have in any other situation.

Dooku is good but old, Anakin bested him simply due to age difference.

Anakin had potential but he allowed himself to be clouded by anger, making him sloppy.

Obi Wan is the best fighter, the only one he had a clear disadvantage to was Dooku and by the time of ROTS he could have arguably beaten Dooku but got caught by a Force push, for the sake of the plot IMO.

Even when fighting Maul, he pushed him to the limit, slicing his saber in half, Maul had to resort to Force push as well to get the upper hand again.

If anything you could say Obis weakness in saber fights is Force push, nothing to do with the actual sword fight itself, he picked Grievous apart rather easily which was 4 sabers against 1.

Judging by record alone you gotta give the nod to Obi Wan here.

2 Sith Lords and Grievous, the Jedi killer.

No one bested Mace in one on one fair combat. He's the best thus far shown.

Originally posted by relentless1
Yoda is good but he couldn't get the job done against Dooku OR Sidious

Mace is also good but in the end he was bested, he's been stated to be on Dookus level and even if you believe he beats Sidous truly (he didn't) then you have to factor in his amp via Vaapad, which he wouldn't really have in any other situation.

Dooku is good but old, Anakin bested him simply due to age difference.

Anakin had potential but he allowed himself to be clouded by anger, making him sloppy.

Obi Wan is the best fighter, the only one he had a clear disadvantage to was Dooku and by the time of ROTS he could have arguably beaten Dooku but got caught by a Force push, for the sake of the plot IMO.

Even when fighting Maul, he pushed him to the limit, slicing his saber in half, Maul had to resort to Force push as well to get the upper hand again.

If anything you could say Obis weakness in saber fights is Force push, nothing to do with the actual sword fight itself, he picked Grievous apart rather easily which was 4 sabers against 1.

Judging by record alone you gotta give the nod to Obi Wan here.

2 Sith Lords and Grievous, the Jedi killer.


Well actually when you look at Yoda's fights, he disarmed Sidious and almost had Dooku.

Agreed with Mace point.

I love Dooku but Dooku was beaten by a finess move. They seemed even with Dooku taking all the attacks but Anakin at that time was a 9 on level with Sidious and Yoda.

Obi wan would be beaten by Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Windu and Anakin even without the force TBH.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Obi Wan defeated Maul via surprise attack while Maul was massaging his ego. Doesn't change the fact that Obiwan was unable to defeat Maul in a straight up fight even with the help of his master.

False... WATCH THE FIGHT FROTH... don't sink to Quan levels on me. This is a SABER fight, and questioning who is the best with the saber. Not all out.. with force powers and sabers. That is the ONLY reason Maul was able to gain the advantage via force push. In their DIRECT saber duel Kenobi was doing just fine, and in fact, partially disarmed Maul of weapon. ALL of this while a Padawan... while on the contrary Maul had more training and was further along than Kenobi and still couldn't defeat him in a sabers only fight. Imagine what a ROTS Master Kenobi would do? It's not even close really, and stop pretending like it is

What's worse it wasn't a surprise attack at all. A surprise attack is generally when somebody is not looking i.e. a cheapshot. Maul was LOOKING DIRECTLY AT KENOBI when he made his move. Problem was not that he didn't see it coming, the problem was he wasn't skilled enough or fast enough to react to the move. It by no means was a surprise attack... he literally watched him fly up the shaft... call his saber and couldn't do a damn thing about it. All this again, while Kenobi was a Padawan. ROTS Kenobi vs. Maul is a non fight.

This is further shown by Kenobi beating Maul and Savage at the same time... he defeated them in the saber only portion of the fight. The only time maul gained ANY advantage, was again, when he force pushed Kenobi. Further conclusive proof that in a saber only fight Kenobi wins, and decisively so.

Originally posted by relentless1
Yoda is good but he couldn't get the job done against Dooku OR Sidious

Mace is also good but in the end he was bested, he's been stated to be on Dookus level and even if you believe he beats Sidous truly (he didn't) then you have to factor in his amp via Vaapad, which he wouldn't really have in any other situation.

Dooku is good but old, Anakin bested him simply due to age difference.

Anakin had potential but he allowed himself to be clouded by anger, making him sloppy.

Obi Wan is the best fighter, the only one he had a clear disadvantage to was Dooku and by the time of ROTS he could have arguably beaten Dooku but got caught by a Force push, for the sake of the plot IMO.

Even when fighting Maul, he pushed him to the limit, slicing his saber in half, Maul had to resort to Force push as well to get the upper hand again.

If anything you could say Obis weakness in saber fights is Force push, nothing to do with the actual sword fight itself, he picked Grievous apart rather easily which was 4 sabers against 1.

Judging by record alone you gotta give the nod to Obi Wan here.

2 Sith Lords and Grievous, the Jedi killer.

Incorrect on many Levels that I don't even now where to begin.

Yoda DISARMED Sids and beat him in direct saber combat. That is indisputable. As you noted in your post.. this is sabers only... Yoda had to overcome Sids force powers which is why he ended up not getting the job done. However, in the saber portion of the fight... he disarmed Sids which is all that matters here.

Again, Windu DID beat Sids, and no amount of sids apologists can change that fact. When using only the movies this couldn't be made more clear. Lucas even admits and says Windu overpowered and overcame Sids. It was so clear a 5 year old would watch the scene and go Windu beat him.

Lastly, you and emperor make the mistake of thinking Vaapad is some kind of external amp, it's not. It's his damn lightsaber form not an amp. He has vaapad in EVERY sword fight he gets in. Stop acting like it's anything other than that.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
False... WATCH THE FIGHT FROTH... don't sink to Quan levels on me. This is a SABER fight, and questioning who is the best with the saber. Not all out.. with force powers and sabers. That is the ONLY reason Maul was able to gain the advantage via force push. In their DIRECT saber duel Kenobi was doing just fine, and in fact, partially disarmed Maul of weapon. ALL of this while a Padawan... while on the contrary Maul had more training and was further along than Kenobi and still couldn't defeat him in a sabers only fight. Imagine what a ROTS Master Kenobi would do? It's not even close really, and stop pretending like it is

What's worse it wasn't a surprise attack at all. A surprise attack is generally when somebody is not looking i.e. a cheapshot. Maul was LOOKING DIRECTLY AT KENOBI when he made his move. Problem was not that he didn't see it coming, the problem was he wasn't skilled enough or fast enough to react to the move. It by no means was a surprise attack... he literally watched him fly up the shaft... call his saber and couldn't do a damn thing about it. All this again, while Kenobi was a Padawan. ROTS Kenobi vs. Maul is a non fight.

This is further shown by Kenobi beating Maul and Savage at the same time... he defeated them in the saber only portion of the fight. The only time maul gained ANY advantage, was again, when he force pushed Kenobi. Further conclusive proof that in a saber only fight Kenobi wins, and decisively so.

Holy crap man. Can we limit our arguments to just a paragraph or two?

Anyway, I just rewatched the fight scene and though Maul did use a force push (once), Obiwan never had the upper hand in that fight. In fact, Maul landed a kick on Obiwan three times, and the only reason Maul didn't finish him off on the first 2 times was because Maul was fighting both Obiwan and Quigon. Obiwan never fought two trained lightsaber fighters at the same time and dominate them. That's something unique to Maul and Dooku and is a better feat than anything Obiwan has done.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not due to skill but due to arrogance. That doesn't make him more skilled. Maul bested him in the clone wars series multiple times. Bfr is a win, Abe.

Opress took on Kenobi and Anakin at the same time and didn't lose.




Incorrect as usual short smush face Quan. Maul NEVER got the better of Kenobi without force powers when Kenobi was ready. Never, ever did that happen. As a padawan Kenobi was getting the better of the saber fight as he partially disarmed Maul, while Maul could gain NO advantage without the force push. Being that this is sabers only... and Kenobi was only a padawan there.. while Maul was much more trained and experienced... It's quite clear Kenobi is above Maul is sabers only combat.

Even in the Savage and Maul vs. Kenobi fight... Again he still wasn't a master yet and was still getting the DECISIVE advantage over Maul and Savage. The ONLY way Maul got Kenobi off of him was AGAIN via a force push... which isn't a part of this thread. God it's so easy tooling you in thread after thread shorty.

Lastly, it wasn't a surprise attack... Maul was LOOKING DIRECTLY AT HIM. He watched him fly up the shaft.. call the sword and couldn't do a damn thing about it. He wasn't skilled enough or fast enough to react to the move by Kenobi, a padawan Kenobi at that. It was a pitiful display by Maul losing to a Padawan. Kenobi owns him in sabers, and easily so shorty.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Holy crap man. Can we limit our arguments to just a paragraph or two?

Anyway, I just rewatched the fight scene and though Maul did use a force push (once), Obiwan never had the upper hand in that fight. In fact, Maul landed a kick on Obiwan three times, and the only reason Maul didn't finish him off on the first 2 times was because Maul was fighting both Obiwan and Quigon. Obiwan never fought two trained lightsaber fighters at the same time and dominate them. That's something unique to Maul and Dooku and is a better feat than anything Obiwan has done.

Which is the point though Froth, this is a saber only fight. As a mere Padawan, Kenobi did just fine against the more experienced and trained Maul. In fact, he partially disarmed him of his weapon. Maul could do no such thing to Kenobi. If Kenobi could do that as a Padawan... how easily do you think ROTS Kenobi would defeat Maul in saber only combat? I reckon pretty decisively.

Not true, Kenobi best maul and savage at the same time in a saber fight. Again, Maul and Savage left the scene and only did so after force pushing Kenobi. In the saber portion of the fight... He was owning them.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well I suppose when taking in its movies only, but with Vader's other canon feats yes. However your logic fails to see the context. Windu had Vaapad which elevated him to a certain point and his mindset was also not normal. If he fought Vader the outcome would be much different so I actually keep my position Vader would take Mace overall with all canon, but movies only yes I do see your point.

What canon feats are you referring to? even if we use all the books in the mythos Vader is no where near Mace level. He became weaker as a swordsman after ROTS. His force powers got better, but since he was so slow now, he became a worse swordsman. So no, in the mythos that isn't true at all. However, this is movies only an Mace is clearly above him.

Stop saying Vaapad is an amp. IT'S HIS DAMN LIGHTSABER FORM NOT AN AMP. Just like Kenobi uses Soresu. That is his form not some external amp he doesn't always have. I'm sick of having to repeat the same logical stuff over and over with you. Get it through your head... This is a saber fight and thus Mace has Vaapad each and every time.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Which is the point though Froth, this is a saber only fight. As a mere Padawan, Kenobi did just fine against the more experienced and trained Maul. In fact, he partially disarmed him of his weapon. Maul could do no such thing to Kenobi. If Kenobi could do that as a Padawan... how easily do you think ROTS Kenobi would defeat Maul in saber only combat? I reckon pretty decisively.

Not true, Kenobi best maul and savage at the same time in a saber fight. Again, Maul and Savage left the scene and only did so after force pushing Kenobi. In the saber portion of the fight... He was owning them.

I think you're completely missing the point. Darth Maul, through pure lightsaber skills, was dominating both Quigon and Obiwan. Obiwan was surviving and did eventually cut Maul's dual saber but at no time did he dominate Darth Maul.

So my question to you is, what makes you think he's a better fighter than Darth Maul? Simply because he was able to somewhat hang in there with Maul as a Padawan?

And if you're going to argue that Darth Maul used a force push then we might as well say that Obiwan would have died if he didn't use a force jump.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I think you're completely missing the point. Darth Maul, through pure lightsaber skills, was dominating both Quigon and Obiwan. Obiwan was surviving and did eventually cut Maul's dual saber but at no time did he dominate Darth Maul.

So my question to you is, what makes you think he's a better fighter than Darth Maul? Simply because he was able to somewhat hang in there with Maul as a Padawan?

And if you're going to argue that Darth Maul used a force push then we might as well say that Obiwan would have died if he didn't use a force jump.

Yes, that is exactly why. He was able to hold his own as a padawan, and in fact, ended up turning Maul into a pint sized midget. That speaks volumes about what would happen once Kenobi became a master. Maul should do better than Kenobi, after all, he was more trained and experienced. So I would expect him to do good and Kenobi to "hang in there" as you say. In the end though, he defeated Maul, and decisively so.

Again, you fail to address Kenobi beating Maul and Savage at the same time in the saber duel. Again, Kenobi still wasn't a master at that point. You don't think by the time of ROTS, he'd do even better and convincing win?

Not close to the same and you know it bud. Even if we accept they are the same (I certainly don't), Kenobi turned him into a pint sized midget, Maul simply gained an advantage over Kenobi i.e. Kenobi still comes out on top.

He wasn't dominating though, he was doing

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yes, that is exactly why. He was able to hold his own as a padawan, and in fact, ended up turning Maul into a pint sized midget. That speaks volumes about what would happen once Kenobi became a master. Maul should do better than Kenobi, after all, he was more trained and experienced. So I would expect him to do good and Kenobi to "hang in there" as you say. In the end though, he defeated Maul, and decisively so.

Again, you fail to address Kenobi beating Maul and Savage at the same time in the saber duel. Again, Kenobi still wasn't a master at that point. You don't think by the time of ROTS, he'd do even better and convincing win?

Not close to the same and you know it bud. Even if we accept they are the same (I certainly don't), Kenobi turned him into a pint sized midget, Maul simply gained an advantage over Kenobi i.e. Kenobi still comes out on top.

He wasn't dominating though, he was doing

When did Kenobi beat Maul and Savage? We're talking purely movie feats here. Also, Kenobi was not able to hold his own as a Padawan. Being able to stop Maul's assault for a number of seconds isn't "holding his own".

Sure he was able to win in the end but he used the force to do that yes? This is a pure lightsaber battle.

We can and ignore the clone wars as if they don't count, but in reality, it's more proof that Kenobi is above him. In general, the clone wars are fair game on this forum. I understand you tried to exclude them, which I suppose is fine, but you should be able to see the overall picture... Kenobi is above him.

Further, if we use the movies only that makes it even worse for the Maul side. Kenobi defeated maul as a mere Padawan... Kenobi beat Anakin... some decisively above Maul. He also defeated the jedi Killer Grievous, which again is more saber feats for Kenobi, while Maul has, wait for it.... doing okay in a 2 v 1 situation... Defeating Jinn... and then getting turned into a midget by Padawan Kenobi. So yes, using movie feats Kenobi still dominates.

Windu is best, hands down. He convincingly beat Sidious in 1v1 saber combat.

Originally posted by Khazra Reborn
Windu is best, hands down. He convincingly beat Sidious in 1v1 saber combat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect as usual short smush face Quan. Maul NEVER got the better of Kenobi without force powers when Kenobi was ready. Never, ever did that happen. As a padawan Kenobi was getting the better of the saber fight as he partially disarmed Maul, while Maul could gain NO advantage without the force push. Being that this is sabers only... and Kenobi was only a padawan there.. while Maul was much more trained and experienced... It's quite clear Kenobi is above Maul is sabers only combat.

Even in the Savage and Maul vs. Kenobi fight... Again he still wasn't a master yet and was still getting the DECISIVE advantage over Maul and Savage. The ONLY way Maul got Kenobi off of him was AGAIN via a force push... which isn't a part of this thread. God it's so easy tooling you in thread after thread shorty.

Lastly, it wasn't a surprise attack... Maul was LOOKING DIRECTLY AT HIM. He watched him fly up the shaft.. call the sword and couldn't do a damn thing about it. He wasn't skilled enough or fast enough to react to the move by Kenobi, a padawan Kenobi at that. It was a pitiful display by Maul losing to a Padawan. Kenobi owns him in sabers, and easily so shorty. Force powers are a part of the duels. Quit trying to dismiss legit wins because you're upset over it. Kenobi was unbalanced and fled from Maul despite him just getting new robotic legs.

Maul bfrd him. Earlier he was unable to best Opress with Anakin's help. Ventress even temporarily got the better of Anakin and Kenobi with a force choke. Your ignorance is condemning.

It caught him by surprise the entire maneuver. He still survived and killed Kenobi's ex *****.

Maul still lives at the moment, noob.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Force powers are a part of the duels. Quit trying to dismiss legit wins because you're upset over it. Kenobi was unbalanced and fled from Maul despite him just getting new robotic legs.

Maul bfrd him. Earlier he was unable to best Opress with Anakin's help. Ventress even temporarily got the better of Anakin and Kenobi with a force choke. Your ignorance is condemning.

It caught him by surprise the entire maneuver. He still survived and killed Kenobi's ex *****.

Maul still lives at the moment, noob.

Incorrect as usual. If you stuck around long enough in the star wars forum before running with your tail tuck between your legs.. you'd know these are the standard stipulations of a Star Wars fight. It goes:

1. Saber
2. Force powers
3. All out

Force push is not apart of the saber only fight. He asked who the best duelist is.. not who the best ALL OUT fighter is. Damn it gets old owning you in every thread you post in. I mean literally.

Thus, since this is who the best duelist thread... force powers don't apply. Thus, we can safely say, Kenobi is CLEARLY above Maul. Here are how the feats break down

Kenobi

1. Beat maul as a Padawan and turned him into a pint sized midget
2. Beat Anakin, who is leagues above Maul in EVERY single category
3. Beat The General

Maul

1. Beat Jinn
and... and.... NOTHING

This fight isn't close. You're better off using Padawan or council member Kenobi vs. Maul... At least that would be an okay fight. Using Master Kenobi, is a stomp on Kenobi's part over Maul. He has the better wins and feats compared to maul. The gap is HUGE. Kenobi owns Maul... OWNS HIM NASTY. Maul never turned Kenobi into a pint sized midget, Kenobi did. Maul was so weak and useless he couldn't react to Kenobi's move in time. Pitiful.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Incorrect as usual. If you stuck around long enough in the star wars forum before running with your tail tuck between your legs.. you'd know these are the standard stipulations of a Star Wars fight. It goes:

1. Saber
2. Force powers
3. All out

Force push is not apart of the saber only fight. He asked who the best duelist is.. not who the best ALL OUT fighter is. Damn it gets old owning you in every thread you post in. I mean literally.

Thus, since this is who the best duelist thread... force powers don't apply. Thus, we can safely say, Kenobi is CLEARLY above Maul. Here are how the feats break down

Kenobi

1. Beat maul as a Padawan and turned him into a pint sized midget
2. Beat Anakin, who is leagues above Maul in EVERY single category
3. Beat The General

Maul

1. Beat Jinn
and... and.... NOTHING

This fight isn't close. You're better off using Padawan or council member Kenobi vs. Maul... At least that would be an okay fight. Using Master Kenobi, is a stomp on Kenobi's part over Maul. He has the better wins and feats compared to maul. The gap is HUGE. Kenobi owns Maul... OWNS HIM NASTY. Maul never turned Kenobi into a pint sized midget, Kenobi did. Maul was so weak and useless he couldn't react to Kenobi's move in time. Pitiful. They are all taken in two account in their duels. Dooku owned Kenobi with the force yet you have no problem accepting that either. Kenobi never bested him with his saber anyways outside of him dropping his guard. He took Kenobi and and Qui on at a the same time.

Grevious was a joke. Kenobi needed his force powers and a gun to win. Weak. You dismiss maul force powers but then cite Kenobi winning with them. Hypocrisy 101. Anakin isn't above Maul at all. Kenobi failed to best Jango Fett. Maul killed Pre Vizsla.


Maul also had Kenobi flee from combat with him in their first duel in the clone wars. Canon, boy. Maul is better skilled, angrier, and more in control of using his aggression to decimate the foe than Kenobi whow as unbalanced by Maul in canon.

Nope, Maul never beat Kenobi via Saber combat. On the other hand, Kenobi partially disarmed Maul and later turned him into a pint sized midget.

Incorrect as usual

1. Sabers
2. Force powers
3. All out

Those are the categories. This is a saber only fight. Maul got owned, Kenobi did not. A Padawan Kenobi at that. Master Kenobi would make short work of Maul. It wouldn't even be a fight.

Now list the movie feats of Maul

Kenobi beat people better than Maul. It's hilarious you say Anakin isn't above Maul... HE'S DECISIVELY above Maul. They aren't even close in power and formidability. Anakin shits all over maul. Him beating Dooku is EXPONENTIALLY better than anybody Maul has beat. Name me a feat of Maul better than beating Dooku? Go ahead try? You can't, guess what Kenobi beat himi. Which again makes Kenobi (by feats) VASTLY above Maul

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nope, Maul never beat Kenobi via Saber combat. On the other hand, Kenobi partially disarmed Maul and later turned him into a pint sized midget.

Incorrect as usual

1. Sabers
2. Force powers
3. All out

Those are the categories. This is a saber only fight. Maul got owned, Kenobi did not. A Padawan Kenobi at that. Master Kenobi would make short work of Maul. It wouldn't even be a fight.

Now list the movie feats of Maul

Kenobi beat people better than Maul. It's hilarious you say Anakin isn't above Maul... HE'S DECISIVELY above Maul. They aren't even close in power and formidability. Anakin shits all over maul. Him beating Dooku is EXPONENTIALLY better than anybody Maul has beat. Name me a feat of Maul better than beating Dooku? Go ahead try? You can't, guess what Kenobi beat himi. Which again makes Kenobi (by feats) VASTLY above Maul Kenobi fled from combat. That's a loss. Maul was overconfident but didn't die. That's fine. He had to take on two Jedi and killed his shitty master.

Kenobi had to use his force powers to jump back into the fight so that doesn't count either since he relied on them for that and the saber.

You just keep stating things without a shred of proof. Kenobi didn't beat Jango. Cad Bane bested him. That's awful. Ventress had both Kenobi and Anakin at her mercy with force powers. Putrid. Anakin and Kenobi also failed to best Opress. Canon. Cry.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
What canon feats are you referring to? even if we use all the books in the mythos Vader is no where near Mace level. He became weaker as a swordsman after ROTS. His force powers got better, but since he was so slow now, he became a worse swordsman. So no, in the mythos that isn't true at all. However, this is movies only an Mace is clearly above him.

Stop saying Vaapad is an amp. IT'S HIS DAMN LIGHTSABER FORM NOT AN AMP. Just like Kenobi uses Soresu. That is his form not some external amp he doesn't always have. I'm sick of having to repeat the same logical stuff over and over with you. Get it through your head... This is a saber fight and thus Mace has Vaapad each and every time.

I'm referring to ones in other source books that wouldn't count here that rank him as best of his time and such, but seeing as this is movies only I see your stance since as of the movies all Vader has as seen on screen done is beat and seemingly lose to Luke, beat Ben Kenobi with with context, while Windu appeared to beat the Empeor who was shown to be about equal to Yoda. Weaker as a swordsman? Not convinced. It's inferred that he would have fought Jedi after ROTS thus would retool his style to adapt to his suit and to compensate for his disadvantages. He only got more skilled, adding more styles to his Arsenal as seen how he added Makashi as seen in ESB, and now he is stronger so Djem So is stronger, as well as him being a dark sider I would say he also added Juyo. See not only has he compensated for his suit, but he is more versatile and skilled in his prime than his ROTS self, as well as more level headed and smarter.

Ok Vaapad is a boost. That would be the more appropriate term for it. If that is your issue than now it's fixed. Now onto its specifics and mechanics, while he may have it each and every time, not to the same effect as he did with Sidious. Even if he fought Sidiosu again he wouldn't get the same boost and do you know why, because of his mindset. When he first fought Sidious that was his prime anger moment and he confronted that anger, after that his mindset would only fall,a mad considering where his power was at being equal to maybe slightly less, he can't afford to lose any. Now to Vader,

1. Vader has the heart of a machine. A stone cold monster, like Dooku is what I'm saying. He's not going to let off as much dark energy like someone like Sidious. He's going to be more tame, and more collected against someone like Windu. He's also going to be cautious since he knows what Windu is capable of.

2. Windus internal anger toward Vader won't be anywhere near as high as it was against Sidious. While Anakin did cut off his arm, that's nothing compared to losing the nearest thing to a "spouse" so to speak in the republic and having everything since you were born torn away from you.

3. The gap in between these two. Ok you and I have been at this for a long time. So let's get Thai straight. Windu is good but without Vaapad he is no where near Sidious/Yoda level. Not a chance in hell. Vader on the other his distance away from that level is at least IMO is far less. So while I'm not saying that Vader is farther above Windu, he is above him when all evidence is looked at.

4. The way Windu defeated Sidious won't work here. Even if Vader were to just let his guard down, Vader is physically strong and durable so he won't be disarmed the same way.

Overall in a pure movies perspective yes Mace woudl be above Vader, I acknowledge that, but when I put the list I used all my knowledge of canon sources that's why I put Vader above Mace, and in a movies perspective I think it's inferred that Vader would be stronger since he's stronger in the force his augmentation is greater, and being endowed with all the disadvantages he would compensate and has done so and is much faster than you or anyone else give him credit for and has in fact taken on fast paced opponents inferred from time against Jedi masters during the purge.

Kurupt, Vaapad is clearly an amp, in the novelization, Windu states its the only reason he was able to match the Emperor in saber fighting.

As far as this old round and round goes, I've made my point clear about Sidious throwing that fight, youre just too pigheaded to see any other point but your own narrow logic. Lucas also says the Emperor was FAKING being weak in that same commentary...

I do agree however that Yoda probably had the advantage when it came to sabres vs Sidious because we never see Sidious with it again after he reverts to Force usage in their fight.

Yea most likely is the best swordsman but Obi has the best track record in the films.

It's not an amp.. it's his lightsaber form. Period, end of story. He has it for EACH and EVERY one of his fight. Thus, by definition that is not an amp.

We've gone over this before. You simply can't get around the fact that the VAST majority of proof is on my side bud. It's literally not close. I have the creator of the universe saying he overpowered him and overcame him. You have YOUR speculation of what could've been. My problem is you think those are the same level of proof, when in fact, one crushes the other.

Realisticly it doesn't matter if Sidious threw the fight or not. The fact that there was a boost that affected him in such a state that it was made clear that while the style is there for his disposal, the height of which it would elevate him would be unknown but most defintlly not to that level ever again.

Also, when Obi fought Savage and Maul he was a Master

Kt, didn't rebut any of his points and didn't even use the quote button. Weak.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
It's not an amp.. it's his lightsaber form. Period, end of story. He has it for EACH and EVERY one of his fight. Thus, by definition that is not an amp.

We've gone over this before. You simply can't get around the fact that the VAST majority of proof is on my side bud. It's literally not close. I have the creator of the universe saying he overpowered him and overcame him. You have YOUR speculation of what could've been. My problem is you think those are the same level of proof, when in fact, one crushes the other.

Stop Ok. Stop being stupid. Ok we get your point you get ours, point is there is proof on both sides. Official site shows ambiguity about the fight and Lucas words in all honesty can be translated either way. All he did was describe what we saw onscreen and if he didn't say it nothing changes. Point is it doesn't matter as Sidious is still better with the blade and the force and it's made clear that Mace isn't the best of the Jedi, that title belongs to Yoda.

Yes Mace was able to go toe toe with Sidious in that instance. Guess what in that one instance where it's made abundantly clear it will never happen again. You know that. Don't be an idiot. This isn't about if he threw the fight or not, this is about best deulist. Guess what Sidious is better due to the fact that Mace needed a special style to just get to that level, so thus Sidious is above Mace and Yoda by himself was able to disarm Sidious however with certain circumstances on his side.

I've already explained Vaapad to you.

Originally posted by relentless1
Also, when Obi fought Savage and Maul he was a Master

Kt doesn't know much about Star Wars. He's conceded across the board.

Originally posted by relentless1
Also, when Obi fought Savage and Maul he was a Master

Huh? what makes you say this?

-
Mace Windu - Count Dooku - Darth Sidius - Yoda
Obi Wan - Anakin
Maul - General Grevious
Qui Gon
Darth Vader (as per Episode VI)
Kylo Ren
Rey
-

imo.

Yoda.

Originally posted by Trocity
Yoda. Windu. Yoda lost. Let it go, sport.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu. Yoda lost. Let it go, sport.

Qui Gon hands down

Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu. Yoda lost. Let it go, sport.

Don't mind Quan, he's short and dumb, and post fake girlfriend pics cause he's too ugly to actually get a real one. Yoda never lost, the fight was interrupted. There was no loss. Failing to complete your mission isn't losing noob.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Don't mind Quan, he's short and dumb, and post fake girlfriend pics cause he's too ugly to actually get a real one. Yoda never lost, the fight was interrupted. There was no loss. Failing to complete your mission isn't losing noob. Someone is really upset. Yoda lost and admitted failure. Should I post the Disney official stamp of approval ??

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Qui Gon hands down You are the same guy who believes guns and drugs are the same thing. Not shocking coming from you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You are the same guy who believes guns and drugs are the same thing. Not shocking coming from you.

Yeah, crack looks just like a semi automatic.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Yeah, crack looks just like a semi automatic. I am sure you've tried to fire it at someone before.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Someone is really upset. Yoda lost and admitted failure. Should I post the Disney official stamp of approval ??



I saw the movie, he didn't lose. If you don't complete your mission you didn't lose the fight moron. Learn the English language

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am sure you've tried to fire it at someone before.

So, you're saying you like the way I discharge my magnum? You sick freak!!

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I saw the movie, he didn't lose. If you don't complete your mission you didn't lose the fight moron. Learn the English language He meant to kill Palpatine but he lost the higher ground and fled. Leaving with your tail tucked in between your legs and and admitting to failure means you lost, Bucky.

Disney also owns Star Wars so what they say matters. Lucas is out.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
So, you're saying you like the way I discharge my magnum? You sick freak!! No, I didn't say that but your sick homosexual fantasies just came out. You sicken me.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I didn't say that but your sick homosexual fantasies just came out. You sicken me.

Your mad because I won't let you clean the barrel, you freak!! I thought you wanted to save your mangina for marriage?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He meant to kill Palpatine but he lost the higher ground and fled. Leaving with your tail tucked in between your legs and and admitting to failure means you lost, Bucky.

Disney also owns Star Wars so what they say matters. Lucas is out.



Wrong again, as the movie and novel illustrate. He left because storm troopers were on there way. You're too dumb to actually watch the movie or read the novel. No place was it ever stated he lost because he lost the higher ground. Not one place. In fact, I can easily crush said stance with the stormtroopers (which alone crushes your theory as that is actually why) Sids already had the higher ground... Yoda reversed the higher ground and gained the advantage. So as we can see, higher ground doesn't/didn't mean yoda lost. He reversed higher ground in the same fight. If you actually new anything about star wars (you don't shorty ugly fellow) you'd know he left because back up was coming. However, you never read the novel or watch the movie so you wouldn't know that. Owned again loser.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Your mad because I won't let you clean the barrel, you freak!! I thought you wanted to save your mangina for marriage? Does your wife know you are into her brother ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Does your wife know you are into her brother ?

Quit pm'ng me about skyping.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Wrong again, as the movie and novel illustrate. He left because storm troopers were on there way. You're too dumb to actually watch the movie or read the novel. No place was it ever stated he lost because he lost the higher ground. Not one place. In fact, I can easily crush said stance with the stormtroopers (which alone crushes your theory as that is actually why) Sids already had the higher ground... Yoda reversed the higher ground and gained the advantage. So as we can see, higher ground doesn't/didn't mean yoda lost. He reversed higher ground in the same fight. If you actually new anything about star wars (you don't shorty ugly fellow) you'd know he left because back up was coming. However, you never read the novel or watch the movie so you wouldn't know that. Owned again loser. He exited the fight aka lost. We see he lost the higher ground and fled. Pussy. Disney supports that he lost as does Lucas. Yoda fell off the pod while Palpatine didn't. Poor Yoda. He died alone and in hiding. Pussy.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Quit pm'ng me about skyping. You are very strange and homosexual. I am into women, guy. Try Robbie I hear that's his thing.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Quit pm'ng me about skyping.

Bro, he Skype's with dudes... What a weirdo. I've saved this in my archives LOL.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Bro, he Skype's with dudes... What a weirdo. I've saved this in my archives LOL. Because you're weird. Only you would save that post. Kinda makes sense since you don't have a gf. Hopefully, he likes men with buck teeth. You two make quite the grotesque pair.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He exited the fight aka lost. We see he lost the higher ground and fled. Pussy. Disney supports that he lost as does Lucas. Yoda fell off the pod while Palpatine didn't. Poor Yoda. He died alone and in hiding. Pussy.

I've already crushed that position. You were owned and easily. The movie and novel both show and detail why Yoda left... not because he lost the higher ground. He left because Sids backup was coming. I've further crushed your theory because Sids had the higher ground before and lost it... Correct? Did Sids have the higher ground earlier in the fight and lose it? Simple question.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Because you're weird. Only you would save that post. Kinda makes sense since you don't have a gf. Hopefully, he likes men with buck teeth. You two make quite the grotesque pair.

Now I don't have a GF LMAO. Okay bud. One thing is for certain.. I posted a pic WITH my girlfriend. Wanna know what you did... You posted a picture of a random girl from the internet. HUGE difference. I proved mine, you lied and put up a fake picture. Even your fake picture isn't even in my league LMAO. How terrible is that. Bro, you Skype with dudes... you're forever the laughing stock on the forum and a homo

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I've already crushed that position. You were owned and easily. The movie and novel both show and detail why Yoda left... not because he lost the higher ground. He left because Sids backup was coming. I've further crushed your theory because Sids had the higher ground before and lost it... Correct? Did Sids have the higher ground earlier in the fight and lose it? Simple question. Youve had multiple posters mock you and you yourself acknowledged Tempest who himself said you're wrong. He left the fight and no backup was there. He lost. He admitted it. Disney admits it.

Sidious retained the higher ground. He won.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Now I don't have a GF LMAO. Okay bud. One thing is for certain.. I posted a pic WITH my girlfriend. Wanna know what you did... You posted a picture of a random girl from the internet. HUGE difference. I proved mine, you lied and put up a fake picture. Even your fake picture isn't even in my league LMAO. How terrible is that. Bro, you Skype with dudes... you're forever the laughing stock on the forum and a homo No one verified anything, Bucky. Only thing verified is your giant chompers.

Dude, what are you even talking about. You are lonely and deranged. Just log off and spend your New Years alone like you always do.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Now I don't have a GF LMAO. Okay bud. One thing is for certain.. I posted a pic WITH my girlfriend. Wanna know what you did... You posted a picture of a random girl from the internet. HUGE difference. I proved mine, you lied and put up a fake picture. Even your fake picture isn't even in my league LMAO. How terrible is that. Bro, you Skype with dudes... you're forever the laughing stock on the forum and a homo

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Way to stick up for your man.

back on topic gentlemen

Originally posted by relentless1
back on topic gentlemen Windu so far.

Originally posted by relentless1
back on topic gentlemen

At once, sir!

Originally posted by quanchi112
No one verified anything, Bucky. Only thing verified is your giant chompers.

Dude, what are you even talking about. You are lonely and deranged. Just log off and spend your New Years alone like you always do.

Bro you Skype with dudes, nothing else needs to be said.

I have a challenge for you... How about we post pics WITH our GF's throughout the years. Let's see who's pulled the better girls. Deal? Not verified LOL. I posted a pic with her, you posted a pic of a girl LMAO. Mine was 100% verifiable.. your was a lie. Get owned dude skyper

You didn't answer are you part canine?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Bro you Skype with dudes, nothing else needs to be said.

I have a challenge for you... How about we post pics WITH our GF's throughout the years. Let's see who's pulled the better girls. Deal? Not verified LOL. I posted a pic with her, you posted a pic of a girl LMAO. Mine was 100% verifiable.. your was a lie. Get owned dude skyper

You didn't answer are you part canine?

who gives a shit about your girlfriend slash mom?? we are here to discuss the best sword fighter in the star wars universe....

Originally posted by relentless1
who gives a shit about your girlfriend slash mom?? we are here to discuss the best sword fighter in the star wars universe....

Dude, I already gave my answer. Try learning to read and comprehending. Don't be mad cause I tooled you on the Mace vs. Sids subject over and over again. It's okay bud, you lost. Did you just type the word slash LMAO. Jesus

Originally posted by quanchi112
Windu so far.

Windus is a badass and Yoda most likely is the best but Obi Wan makes a strong point with his track record...2 Sith Lords and the good General...the feats speak for themselves id say

Originally posted by relentless1
Windus is a badass and Yoda most likely is the best but Obi Wan makes a strong point with his track record...2 Sith Lords and the good General...the feats speak for themselves id say Maul got the better of him and was superior. Ventress got the better of Kenobi on occasion. General Grievous was weak.

Windu beat Sidious. Dooku beat Kenobi.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maul got the better of him and was superior. Ventress got the better of Kenobi on occasion. General Grievous was weak.

Windu beat Sidious. Dooku beat Kenobi.

How did Windu die again?

Sidious shocked him and threw him out his office window after his arm was cut off by Anakin.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Sidious shocked him and threw him out his office window after his arm was cut off by Anakin.


Thanks, only seen movie once. I'm having trouble with youtube right now to watch a clip.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
Thanks, only seen movie once. I'm having trouble with youtube right now to watch a clip.

Glad I could help.

Originally posted by Tattoos N Scars
How did Windu die again? Why debate topics you obviously are ignorant on ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why debate topics you obviously are ignorant on ?

One could ask the same thing of you.

Without the Force to perceive events before they happen lightsabers are more or less useless. So I'll give it to General Grevious since he couldn't use the Force to begin with.

I'm sure in this contest you can still use the force to augment your abilities, you just can't use TK or FL.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
One could ask the same thing of you. No, I could ask you that. Your ignorance is amusing to me.