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Perseus with his godly sword and shield

Captain America & Winter Soldier

Loki: No illusions

Ares (Clash of Titans)

Thor: H2H, No flying.

Hulkbuster: No flying

Zeus (Clash of Titans)

He beats Ares, stops at Thor.

If Loki is allowed his knives, then Juggy stops at Loki.

Not really, he no sold Logan's claws and regenerated/healed instantly without even showing any sign of pain.

Logan is not as strong as Loki, meaning he probably can't penetrate as hard as Loki (yes, that sounds very weird).

I mean, Juggernaut will already have his hands full trying to beat Loki h2h. Add in magical knives that can hurt Juggy and I don't see him winning.

Doubtful, he won't even feel it. And I remember you arguing before that they were not actually magical.

And he heals instantly and feels no pain. Logans claws went in deeper into Juggs then Lokis did into Thor.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Doubtful, he won't even feel it. And I remember you arguing before that they were not actually magical.

And he heals instantly and feels no pain. Logans claws went in deeper into Juggs then Lokis did into Thor.

What I was arguing before was that the knives were physical but were coated in magic.

I'll have to rewatch the X3 fight to see them healing powers. Will get back to you on this.

Logan stabbed his claws clean through Cain's arm. He punched him to the ground and the moment the claws were out of his body, he was healed. Wasn't even any blood. And when he got stabbed, he seemed more surprised that Logan stabbed him than hurt. He even stabbed Cain in the head I think, as he used his body as a lightning rod so Storm could electrocute him, but stone doesn't conduct electricity so he had to have stabbed him directly for it to work. Cain was still fine aside from the lightning, but he was okay from that too later on.

And Cain shouldn't have any trouble beating Loki. He's stronger going by feats, and can tank or heal whatever Loki throws at him. When he gets his hands on him, he'll just beat him down.

I don't recall those details but if they did go down the way you described, then Thor or Hulkbuster shouldn't be able to beat him either.

Thor can I think. He's got higher strength feats and lightning temporarily stopped Cain. And we now know Thor can generate lightning on his own. So if he can do that, he has a sure win. If not then he has access to BFR I suppose, as I'm not certain what level of force is needed to KO Cain if it's even possible without exotic circumstances(like directly electrocuting his brain to the point you can see electricity dancing on his stone helmet or being turned human before cracking his head on a wall running full speed). But Thor is in the strength/durability range where Cain shouldn't be able to do too much damage.

Thor created some around him in a magical well, and he was not actually in control of it, so I dunno about that working for him in combat, nor was it shown.

I also listed that fight as H2h. So how do you see that fight?

Originally posted by FrothByte
I don't recall those details but if they did go down the way you described, then Thor or Hulkbuster shouldn't be able to beat him either.

Most people won't remember it, because it's an extended cut that wasn't actually in the Cinematic release, so unknown if it is even canon. Which is actually worse for his opponents, considering in the cinematic release I think even Logan's clawed hits just kind of glanced off him instead of cutting him. Been a while since I watched it though. But here is the scene in question:

At 0:28 he sticks his claws straight through Cain's arm to absolutely no effect.

KnltuBhfpNI

Only people who could potentially stop him are Thor and Zeus here. Not sure what even Tony could do, purely because of Juggs' powerset. He could literally just keep shoulder charging Tony until Veronica starts getting torn apart, and Tony won't have much of an answer. Any damage Tony might possibly be able to inflict would just heal.

One thing to be said about that video though, is that Juggs punches Wolverine multiple times and is unable to KO him. That makes me question whether he has enough power output to KO Thor or Loki.

Originally posted by FrothByte
One thing to be said about that video though, is that Juggs punches Wolverine multiple times and is unable to KO him. That makes me question whether he has enough power output to KO Thor or Loki.


Yet later on he stepped on an APC and crumpled it beneath his feet like paste. And he was casually ramming through multiple foot thick stone walls. Cain on feats is stronger than anyone Logan has ever fought.

As for the fight with Thor, if BFR is an option, it's his best one. As KO may be possible, but we're not sure how much is actually needed.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Logan is not as strong as Loki, meaning he probably can't penetrate as hard as Loki (yes, that sounds very weird).

I mean, Juggernaut will already have his hands full trying to beat Loki h2h. Add in magical knives that can hurt Juggy and I don't see him winning.

Originally posted by KingD19
Yet later on he stepped on an APC and crumpled it beneath his feet like paste. And he was casually ramming through multiple foot thick stone walls. Cain on feats is stronger than anyone Logan has ever fought.

As for the fight with Thor, if BFR is an option, it's his best one. As KO may be possible, but we're not sure how much is actually needed.

That movie upped Wolverine durability and healing factor. Jean was melting metal, tanks, etc...but Wolverine healing factor tanked everything she threw at him. That movie was his high.

Carver, where on earth have you been hiding? I haven't seen you post here in a while.

It should also be noted that Wolverine's KO consistency in the first trilogy is somewhat suspect. Gets KO'd by a tree in the first film, which is not a very good showing. Then also gets KO'd by a single gunshot in X2, but then can take numerous hits and getting tossed around by Deathstrike later on, who displays quite significant levels of superstrength, but it hardly slows him down at all. Then in X3 he can survive the Juggs beating and everything Jean threw at him, yet Magneto tossing him some distance into a tree followed by him falling on the ground knocks him out (when he tanked jumping out of a plane in Origins).

Whether he got KO'd or not in the original trilogy depended almost solely on the plot at that point in time. They needed the other X-men to enter the fray when Creed KO'd him in X1. The gunshot KO was so that Pyro could have his moment. Juggs couldn't KO him so that he could claw his way over to Jean and Xavier to watch her kill him. Mags needed to KO him so that his brotherhood army could escape etc.

Yea Wolverines KO's are way to inconsistent.

So jugs clears?

If he makes it past Thor, he's not beating Zeus.

How does Zues kill him iyo?

He could probably rip him apart long enough for it to count as a win, but I'm not sure Cain can be killed without taking his powers first. His powers are vaguely defined, which gives him a lot of wiggle room in a debate.

Yea he would prolly just blast him into a million pieces. He is big daddy Zeus after all.

Not sure Juggs could hurt Thor enough for a win though. He is strong, but he isn't quite in the same class as the guys who actually physically give Thor trouble. That'd probably be a stalemate. The two of them just beating up on each other with no winner, though Thor is going to have some trouble handling the momentum advantage Juggs has.

So we count feats from deleted scenes?

Well, there isn't that much else to go on. In the cinematic version, the only time he actually got hurt/KO'd was when he ran into a concrete wall while depowered. Nothing else even slowed him down.

I am leting it count here cause he was a cool character and needs them to add to screen time and feats.

If Thor is able to remove Jugg's helmet, which he should be able to, is Thor strong enough to KO Juggs? I don't think Thor would have that much problem with Juggernauts momentum. He's proven a skilled enough fighter that he should be able to use Juggernaut's own momentum to get him to the ground.

What I'm curious about is once Juggy is down, can Thor ground and pound him enough to KO him?

Juggernaut doesn't really have any durability feats on par with the damage Thor can do.

Juggernaut was not that impressive in X3. His feats weren't that great and he wasn't that skilled in combat. I think Loki can take him. I mean we have no idea how much damage Cain can actually tank but it is not unlimited.

@ Loki taking him.

Originally posted by Newjak
Juggernaut was not that impressive in X3. His feats weren't that great and he wasn't that skilled in combat. I think Loki can take him. I mean we have no idea how much damage Cain can actually tank but it is not unlimited.

So you basically admit to having no solid idea but say what the hell I say Loki wins. That's biased thinking and you should be above that by now.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you basically admit to having no solid idea but say what the hell I say Loki wins. That's biased thinking and you should be above that by now.

He's always been in the thorbag group. So that means he has to stick up for Loki cause he always gives Thor a run for his money.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you basically admit to having no solid idea but say what the hell I say Loki wins. That's biased thinking and you should be above that by now. Bias would be me giving Juggernaut the win because I actually like Juggernaut more than Loki. Heck Cain is my top three favorite characters and on somedays he is number one.

What I do know is we can not apply a no limits fallacy to Cain. We can only go off of his X3 feats.

And one of those feats may not even be usable if you believe deleted scenes can be evidence or not.

The point is though Juggernaut didn't do anything that impressive in the movie.

He crunched the top of a Humvee. He ran through walls. His best feat is being phased into the ground and busting out.

Now let's actually compare Loki with Cain.

Durability:
Loki survived the Bi-Frost explosion, an exploding arrow to the face, repulsar blasts from Iron Man, the Destroyer cannon, lightning from Thor(Holding Back Thor), a Hulk Smash w/o being KOed. The Hulk feat alone puts him above Cain in Durability.

But let's actually examine Cain's feats. He durable enough to take the impact of running through solid walls. Nice but nothing compared to what Loki has taken.

Oh he may have taken a shot from Wolverine. In scene that is ambiguous on whether Wolverine actually made contact with Marko's skin. Of course if you use the deleted scene Wolverine was able to stab Cain no problem. Of course it does give Marko a good healing factor. It also shows he can be knocked out by lightning. Heck Loki has already taken lightning blasts from his brother without problems. And Thor's lightning attacks have more power than Storm's in damage output.

So in terms of Durability I think Loki has the distinct advantage.

Strength:
Okay this is one category besides regeneration Cain may have an edge in. Mostly because Loki doesn't get very many strength feats. I mean we know he can treat humans like gnats but so can Cain. Oh wait Loki is also strong enough to treat Captain America like a child. The same Cap who has some pretty decent strength feats going for him.

Also Loki is able to tangle with Frost Giants who are the roughly physical equals of Asgardians. The same Asgardians as seen on Agents of Shield that are incredibly strong. Just look at Sif's feats. She is squarely if not better than Cain in strength feats. Is this enough to give Loki the nod in the strength depart... probably not but it's close enough that I don't see Cain out muscling Loki. After all Cain is no Hulk in movie feats. Heck Agents of Shields shows just how hard it is to kill Asgardians and the type of punishment they can take and heal from.

Now let's look at H2H skill:
Loki completely blows the Juggernaut out of the water in this category. I'm not even sure I need to go into a lot of detail here but okay.

Cain's only real fight in the movie is him against Wolverine and that is mostly him overpowering Wolverine. Plus Wolverine has never really been shown to be that great of a H2H combatant in the movies. He has always relied on his healing factor to pull him past anyone with real h2h skills like Mystique or Deathstrike.

Now let's look at Loki. He is able to out perform against Frost Giants in combat easily. He can easily overpower and match Captain America. In Thor the Dark World he is able to swiftly and easily take out Dark elves using only a dagger.

H2H combat isn't even close.

And let's take a look at Loki's daggers. They were able to pierce Thor and make Thor bleed and we know how durable Thor is. So I don't doubt that they will be able to cut and pierce Cain. Of course Cain will most likely be able to heal although we know he can be knocked out so Juggernaut has a damage threshold.

I'm not even sure Cain has the offensive output to KO Loki based on the Frost Giant's durability feats.

I do believe Loki does have the offensive output and skill to take down Cain on the other hand.

Originally posted by Newjak
Bias would be me giving Juggernaut the win because I actually like Juggernaut more than Loki. Heck Cain is my top three favorite characters and on somedays he is number one.

What I do know is we can not apply a no limits fallacy to Cain. We can only go off of his X3 feats.

And one of those feats may not even be usable if you believe deleted scenes can be evidence or not.

The point is though Juggernaut didn't do anything that impressive in the movie.

He crunched the top of a Humvee. He ran through walls. His best feat is being phased into the ground and busting out.

Now let's actually compare Loki with Cain.

Durability:
Loki survived the Bi-Frost explosion, an exploding arrow to the face, repulsar blasts from Iron Man, the Destroyer cannon, lightning from Thor(Holding Back Thor), a Hulk Smash w/o being KOed. The Hulk feat alone puts him above Cain in Durability.

But let's actually examine Cain's feats. He durable enough to take the impact of running through solid walls. Nice but nothing compared to what Loki has taken.

Oh he may have taken a shot from Wolverine. In scene that is ambiguous on whether Wolverine actually made contact with Marko's skin. Of course if you use the deleted scene Wolverine was able to stab Cain no problem. Of course it does give Marko a good healing factor. It also shows he can be knocked out by lightning. Heck Loki has already taken lightning blasts from his brother without problems. And Thor's lightning attacks have more power than Storm's in damage output.

So in terms of Durability I think Loki has the distinct advantage.

Strength:
Okay this is one category besides regeneration Cain may have an edge in. Mostly because Loki doesn't get very many strength feats. I mean we know he can treat humans like gnats but so can Cain. Oh wait Loki is also strong enough to treat Captain America like a child. The same Cap who has some pretty decent strength feats going for him.

Also Loki is able to tangle with Frost Giants who are the roughly physical equals of Asgardians. The same Asgardians as seen on Agents of Shield that are incredibly strong. Just look at Sif's feats. She is squarely if not better than Cain in strength feats. Is this enough to give Loki the nod in the strength depart... probably not but it's close enough that I don't see Cain out muscling Loki. After all Cain is no Hulk in movie feats. Heck Agents of Shields shows just how hard it is to kill Asgardians and the type of punishment they can take and heal from.

Now let's look at H2H skill:
Loki completely blows the Juggernaut out of the water in this category. I'm not even sure I need to go into a lot of detail here but okay.

Cain's only real fight in the movie is him against Wolverine and that is mostly him overpowering Wolverine. Plus Wolverine has never really been shown to be that great of a H2H combatant in the movies. He has always relied on his healing factor to pull him past anyone with real h2h skills like Mystique or Deathstrike.

Now let's look at Loki. He is able to out perform against Frost Giants in combat easily. He can easily overpower and match Captain America. In Thor the Dark World he is able to swiftly and easily take out Dark elves using only a dagger.

H2H combat isn't even close.

And let's take a look at Loki's daggers. They were able to pierce Thor and make Thor bleed and we know how durable Thor is. So I don't doubt that they will be able to cut and pierce Cain. Of course Cain will most likely be able to heal although we know he can be knocked out so Juggernaut has a damage threshold.

I'm not even sure Cain has the offensive output to KO Loki based on the Frost Giant's durability feats.

I do believe Loki does have the offensive output and skill to take down Cain on the other hand. Ok, I am glad I brought out the best in you. I see too many answers saying if you rip someone's shirt they win and no evidence cited whatsoever.

Loki does not have the offensive output to take out Juggs, jack.