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They're dropped into a neutral playing field and told to fight till they drop, Cell before his final boost, to the death or until incapacitation, who wins?

Dabura's magical abilities might have the upper hand, but Broli is the strongest here. If they don't know about Dabura's abilities then he could get the win here easily. It's just spit, and at least Cell and Broli just like to tank things. Bojack is the deciding factor. If Dabura takes out Cell and Broli by turning them into stone first I think Bojack could win.

So many types of factors.. If Dabura plays it dumb and doesn't spit then Broli wins.

Cell has the best techniques(minus Dabura's spit) and he is the best fighter AND he has regen.

With all that said I don't see how anyone can not see that Broly wins.

Broly should win, as he's above SSJ2 level, and the rest of the people here are sub-SSJ2 level at best.

Of course, Dabura has his spit, but we don't know the limits on that. He can probably only use it once or something like that, which is why he got eaten by Buu. Plus, Cell's regeneration can save him, as long as his statue is broken. Or Cell could even just rip a piece of himself off, and regenerate from that after he's turned to stone, like he did in DBM.

To be honest though, Broly always has a ki shield up, so I can't see the spit affecting him, or even being able to touch him.

Bojack is the weakest, and has no hax or regeneration, so he'd get taken out first. With that said though, the win goes to either Cell or Broly, depending on who Dabura spits on.

Dabura solidly.

After rewatching the broly movies he way stronger than I originally thought. Definitely over cell Era fighters. No cis cell should never lose he should always have pieces scattered to regen from. Outside of that unless they gang up on broly he gets it solidly

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Broly should win, as he's above SSJ2 level, and the rest of the people here are sub-SSJ2 level at best.

Of course, Dabura has his spit, but we don't know the limits on that. He can probably only use it once or something like that, which is why he got eaten by Buu. Plus, Cell's regeneration can save him, as long as his statue is broken. Or Cell could even just rip a piece of himself off, and regenerate from that after he's turned to stone, like he did in DBM.

To be honest though, Broly always has a ki shield up, so I can't see the spit affecting him, or even being able to touch him.

Bojack is the weakest, and has no hax or regeneration, so he'd get taken out first. With that said though, the win goes to either Cell or Broly, depending on who Dabura spits on. Bojack is supposed to be above first movie Broly via the whole "Next villain in a movie > last one" statement. He sure didn't seem like it though. Either way he's dwarfed by Second Coming Broly via feats and that logic.

I don't know why they made Bojack so weak though. I know they like the whole "one last attacks ends movie villains after nothing works" but still. If he didn't beat Vegeta so easily he'd be a glorified Cell Jr.

Also didn't Dabura spam spit at Gohan?

Dabura spit twice in a row at Piccolo and Krillen. I only rememeber him spitting at Gohan once. Though anime may have had more.

Bojack was disappointing.
Without his crew he was kinda meh.


Broly ftw.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Bojack is supposed to be above first movie Broly via the whole "Next villain in a movie > last one" statement. He sure didn't seem like it though. Either way he's dwarfed by Second Coming Broly via feats and that logic.

I don't know why they made Bojack so weak though. I know they like the whole "one last attacks ends movie villains after nothing works" but still. If he didn't beat Vegeta so easily he'd be a glorified Cell Jr.

Also didn't Dabura spam spit at Gohan?

Um... If that was true, how do you explain Janemba > Hirudegarn? Because SSJ3 Goku beat Hirudegarn by himself, and Super Janemba beat SSJ3 Goku AND SSJ2 Vegeta, while they were both dead, which means Goku could use SSJ3 even easier.

Well Bojack wasn't supposed to be that powerful. He was weak enough to be trapped in the core of a star, which is something that Cell was obviously never would have had trouble with. Given the fact that Semi-perfect Cell's suicide bomb blew up the star, and SPC outright stated he could one-shot a solar system.

And no, he didn't. He MAY have in the anime, but if he did, it was simply filler. If Dabura could use it more than a few times at once, he would have used it to kill Buu, after Buu casually two-shotted him. But we'll say Dabura has three shots with it. However, when the others see one person turn to stone, they'll be on guard against it, and won't get hit by his spit, so really the first shot is the only one that'll count.

And no matter what, Dabura will lose here. If he wastes his surprise shot on Cell, then Cell will simply rip a piece of himself off and regenerate from that, which will even help Cell by giving him a zenkai boost. And if Dabura uses it on Broly, Broly will either dodge it or die, and even if that happened, Cell would still murder-stomp Dabura. If he uses it on Bojack, then he still gets caught in the middle of Cell vs. Broly, and ends up dying in the crossfire.

So the only real possible victors here are Cell and Broly.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um... If that was true, how do you explain Janemba > Hirudegarn? Because SSJ3 Goku beat Hirudegarn by himself, and Super Janemba beat SSJ3 Goku AND SSJ2 Vegeta, while they were both dead, which means Goku could use SSJ3 even easier.

Well Bojack wasn't supposed to be that powerful. He was weak enough to be trapped in the core of a star, which is something that Cell was obviously never would have had trouble with. Given the fact that Semi-perfect Cell's suicide bomb blew up the star, and SPC outright stated he could one-shot a solar system.

And no, he didn't. He MAY have in the anime, but if he did, it was simply filler. If Dabura could use it more than a few times at once, he would have used it to kill Buu, after Buu casually two-shotted him. But we'll say Dabura has three shots with it. However, when the others see one person turn to stone, they'll be on guard against it, and won't get hit by his spit, so really the first shot is the only one that'll count.

And no matter what, Dabura will lose here. If he wastes his surprise shot on Cell, then Cell will simply rip a piece of himself off and regenerate from that, which will even help Cell by giving him a zenkai boost. And if Dabura uses it on Broly, Broly will either dodge it or die, and even if that happened, Cell would still murder-stomp Dabura. If he uses it on Bojack, then he still gets caught in the middle of Cell vs. Broly, and ends up dying in the crossfire.

So the only real possible victors here are Cell and Broly.

Hirudamon also one punched ss3 Gotenks out of fusion and knocked mystic Gohan out with a tail squeeze. Both characters according to the people on this forum are 8 times Buu saga Goku. Point is is that it was after the Buu saga chronologically. Which according to non canon, canon and GT was the time Goku started doing massive gains. Probably started shooting up creatine through his cockhole. Either Goku stayed the same level between the movies and his SS2 form is more powerful than SS3 Gotenks/Gohan or he got more powerful.
Basically, Hirudamegamon > SS3 Gotenks, SS2 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, and Mystic Gohan at the same time. But do tell me how beating Vegeta and Goku in the afterlife are better.

They sealed him in a star, with seals. As soon as the seal was broken he got out. Which means he walked right out of the star and the only thing holding him in the star were the seals. What was weak was him getting sealed there by 4 Sayian Saga Vegeta level beings but what are you going to do.
It's the same as a being like Surtur getting trapped in the planet.

You realize that you're saying the magic fire breathing demon can only spit 3 times in a fight? And Dabura didn't even get a chance against Buu. Before he could lift a finger he got 2 shotted. Then when he was prepared to fight after he thought he killed Buu he got turned into a cookie.
It's not like Dabura was trying to spit and he came up dry. He was casually spitting sometimes 2 at a time. It was blatantly said to be his saliva.

That being said I'm not saying Dabura wins. I'm just wondering why we need to limit someone who we think would lose anyway. It'd be like saying that any of these characters are only limited to the amount of blasts or punches they showed. Considering manga Cell is being used, he's only got like 10 blasts in him before he runs out...

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Hirudamon also one punched ss3 Gotenks out of fusion and knocked mystic Gohan out with a tail squeeze. Both characters according to the people on this forum are 8 times Buu saga Goku. Point is is that it was after the Buu saga chronologically. Which according to non canon, canon and GT was the time Goku started doing massive gains. Probably started shooting up creatine through his cockhole. Either Goku stayed the same level between the movies and his SS2 form is more powerful than SS3 Gotenks/Gohan or he got more powerful.
Basically, Hirudamegamon > SS3 Gotenks, SS2 Goku, SS2 Vegeta, and Mystic Gohan at the same time. But do tell me how beating Vegeta and Goku in the afterlife are better.

They sealed him in a star, with seals. As soon as the seal was broken he got out. Which means he walked right out of the star and the only thing holding him in the star were the seals. What was weak was him getting sealed there by 4 Sayian Saga Vegeta level beings but what are you going to do.
It's the same as a being like Surtur getting trapped in the planet.

You realize that you're saying the magic fire breathing demon can only spit 3 times in a fight? And Dabura didn't even get a chance against Buu. Before he could lift a finger he got 2 shotted. Then when he was prepared to fight after he thought he killed Buu he got turned into a cookie.
It's not like Dabura was trying to spit and he came up dry. He was casually spitting sometimes 2 at a time. It was blatantly said to be his saliva.

That being said I'm not saying Dabura wins. I'm just wondering why we need to limit someone who we think would lose anyway. It'd be like saying that any of these characters are only limited to the amount of blasts or punches they showed. Considering manga Cell is being used, he's only got like 10 blasts in him before he runs out...

Um... Both movies are after the Buu saga. Goku specifically states that Janemba was the only enemy to force him to use SSJ3 since Buu. Meaning that the WOTD movie happened after Fusion Reborn, yes. However, Vegeta explicitly stated in WOTD that it had been less than a month since the Buu incident. Meaning that it had also been less than a month since Fusion Reborn. So unless you're arguing that Goku got over 10 times more powerful in less than a month, while Gotenks and Gohan stayed the same, then you're completely off your rocker here, pal. And there would have been no way for Goku to feasibly get 10 times stronger in less than a month, unless he had gone SSJG or something. Beerus didn't exist at that point, btw.

Wait, what? Did you just call the Supreme Kai's Saiyan saga Vegeta level? Since when could Saiyan saga Vegeta kill Frieza with a single blow? You're completely lowballing the Kai's here. They were all roughly as powerful as a Super Saiyan, which is Shin knew he could contain Gohan as a SSJ, but doubted if he could contain him as a SSJ2. However, Buu saga SSJ2 Gohan was only as powerful as MSSJ Cell saga Gohan, so it puts the peak of the Supreme Kai's powers at MSSJ level. And they sealed Bojack specifically in the core of a star. Cell's suicide bomb destroyed the seal, meaning it destroyed the core of the star, which in turn means it destroyed a star. That's the point I was making.

Um, Dabura also had ample time to chuck a magic spear through Buu after catching him off-gaurd, as well as hitting him with a massive barrage of ki blasts. There were plenty of opportunities for him to spit on Buu, which he WOULD have done after seeing how blatantly Buu outclassed him... If he COULD. This limit was clearly imposed on Dabura as a way to keep him inferior to Buu, but since he died, we have to assume he couldn't do anything to stop himself from being killed. Especially killing his killer by spitting on him.

Um... No. What I'm saying is like saying that Goku has a limit on how many kamehameha waves he can use- which is true. Or that Ichigo has a limit on how many getsugatensho's he can use- which is true. Or that Naruto has a limit on how many rasengan's he can use- which is (barely)true. If a character has a failsafe, that can save their own life with no cost to their interests whatsoever, and DOESN'T use that failsafe, we HAVE to assume that they simply can't. It is that simple. Dabura didn't kill Buu, which would have saved his own life as well as Babidi's, meaning he simply COULDN'T. With all the opportunities he got to spit on Buu, we HAVE to assume that he lacked the magical energy or simply the ability to use the magic spit. Otherwise he would have killed Buu, and Vegeta and Goku would have killed him before finishing their fight.

For example, Cell didn't regenerate when SSJ2 Gohan vaporized every Cell in his body. Do we assume that he simply chose to let himself die? Phuck no, he lost too much energy and was destroyed on too small of a scale to regenerate, so he died. That simple. He lacked the ability, so he lacked the performance. Just like Dabura did. Even though Cell regenerated from near death a hundred times more than Dabura's spit ever turned someone to stone.

That Dragon Punch thing did kill Super 17 as well though.
As far as I remember 17 and SSJ4 Goku were roughly equals.
Then he absorbed the 10xkamehameha and was puting the hurt on Goku till to the point he turned back to normal cause he lost so much power he.couldnt keep up the form.

Then he used the SSJ3 dragon punch so it's kind of a hax move.

So in gt dragon punch SSJ3>>SSJ4+(since the absorbtion of 10xkamehame)

By feats at least.

Same could apply against Hirudegarn.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Um... Both movies are after the Buu saga. Goku specifically states that Janemba was the only enemy to force him to use SSJ3 since Buu. Meaning that the WOTD movie happened after Fusion Reborn, yes. However, Vegeta explicitly stated in WOTD that it had been less than a month since the Buu incident. Meaning that it had also been less than a month since Fusion Reborn. So unless you're arguing that Goku got over 10 times more powerful in less than a month, while Gotenks and Gohan stayed the same, then you're completely off your rocker here, pal. And there would have been no way for Goku to feasibly get 10 times stronger in less than a month, unless he had gone SSJG or something. Beerus didn't exist at that point, btw.

Wait, what? Did you just call the Supreme Kai's Saiyan saga Vegeta level? Since when could Saiyan saga Vegeta kill Frieza with a single blow? You're completely lowballing the Kai's here. They were all roughly as powerful as a Super Saiyan, which is Shin knew he could contain Gohan as a SSJ, but doubted if he could contain him as a SSJ2. However, Buu saga SSJ2 Gohan was only as powerful as MSSJ Cell saga Gohan, so it puts the peak of the Supreme Kai's powers at MSSJ level. And they sealed Bojack specifically in the core of a star. Cell's suicide bomb destroyed the seal, meaning it destroyed the core of the star, which in turn means it destroyed a star. That's the point I was making.

Um, Dabura also had ample time to chuck a magic spear through Buu after catching him off-gaurd, as well as hitting him with a massive barrage of ki blasts. There were plenty of opportunities for him to spit on Buu, which he WOULD have done after seeing how blatantly Buu outclassed him... If he COULD. This limit was clearly imposed on Dabura as a way to keep him inferior to Buu, but since he died, we have to assume he couldn't do anything to stop himself from being killed. Especially killing his killer by spitting on him.

Um... No. What I'm saying is like saying that Goku has a limit on how many kamehameha waves he can use- which is true. Or that Ichigo has a limit on how many getsugatensho's he can use- which is true. Or that Naruto has a limit on how many rasengan's he can use- which is (barely)true. If a character has a failsafe, that can save their own life with no cost to their interests whatsoever, and DOESN'T use that failsafe, we HAVE to assume that they simply can't. It is that simple. Dabura didn't kill Buu, which would have saved his own life as well as Babidi's, meaning he simply COULDN'T. With all the opportunities he got to spit on Buu, we HAVE to assume that he lacked the magical energy or simply the ability to use the magic spit. Otherwise he would have killed Buu, and Vegeta and Goku would have killed him before finishing their fight.

For example, Cell didn't regenerate when SSJ2 Gohan vaporized every Cell in his body. Do we assume that he simply chose to let himself die? Phuck no, he lost too much energy and was destroyed on too small of a scale to regenerate, so he died. That simple. He lacked the ability, so he lacked the performance. Just like Dabura did. Even though Cell regenerated from near death a hundred times more than Dabura's spit ever turned someone to stone.

Goku and Vegeta were both dead which means it was happening during the Fusion Saga if we were to place it. And Goku if he did say anything at all about Buu doesn't mean anything considering the last opponent he fought before going back to the underworld was Fat Buu in SS3 form. Which means if he referred to Buu it would have been that one.
I don't trust your word, but the only thing that matters is that Goku did get stronger. And you're also missing the point here in favor of something you think you can answer.
The fact remains that who Hirudegarn beat was a lot more impressive than who Janemba beat. And easier. Gotenks and Gohan were trashed. Goku wasn't. That doesn't change just because "too few time" had passed. At that stage in time Goku was a shitload more powerful than everyone else. The same cannot be proven for Fusion Reborn. It could have been a day for all it matters. Goku was the top.

What are you talking about? It was King Kai and the 3 other Quadrant leaders who sealed Bojack. I don't even think Supreme Kai existed to King Kai yet. Which means for it to be Supreme Kai, King Kai would have been fighting alongside someone he simply forgot, but knew he was there.
And no Cell didn't destroy a sun... the planet held a link to Bojack's seal. The sun Bojack was sealed in was in the edge of a galaxy. Hell, if what you're saying is an indication, that means Bojack tanked a sun destroying attack, and a sun exploding while being in the middle of it. And we also assume he was caught by surprise since how would he know?
But anyway, 29 minutes in.
https://youtu.be/9FoR7vN-5E0

To state it again.
4 Kais including King Kai
In a sun edge of galaxy
The planet breaking broke the seal

Which means Bojack just walked out of the sun afterwards.

Dabura paused because he thought he had seriously injured Buu since Buu's regen didn't exist to Dabura yet. Him having ample time doesn't mean anything since he didn't do anything. You could use the same logic to prove he ran out of ki blasts since he didn't use one. A lack of trying doesn't mean a lack of ability. The fact remains that when Dabura was ready to fight, he had zero time to do anything both times. The second time he even got into fighter stance ready to do something and he just got turned into a cookie instantly.

What you're doing is imposing a limit on someone's saliva actually. The guy created almost as many magical items as he spit saliva and you're going to tell me he has a limit on magic? Supreme Kai made it really clear that Dabura's saliva did it. Which means he doesn't even need to conjure anything up to do it. He just can't have a dry mouth.
He only got one oppurtunity to really spit at Buu and that was when he thought he had seriously maimed him. Just because he didn't take that chance doesn't mean he would be coughing up a hairball had he tried. You're acting like stupidity doesn't exist around these characters or that you have to use your most potent attack within the span of the seconds Dabura had or else you lost the ability.

Your Cell regen point makes zero sense in the context of this discussion. You're now comparing someone getting disintegrated to someone else's ability to spit saliva.

Also Dabura had one real fight in his career. His only battle is against Gohan. If we count Buu beating the shit out of him as a fight, and him shooting one blast at Kibito then we're left with 3 fights. He spit 3 times spread out among those. And considering Supreme Kai knows about his spit, that means he spit at least 4 times in his life. If he lacks so much showings but has used an attack at least 4 times, then chances are he can use it a lot. I don't know if you can only spit 4 times in your life or what, but most things should be assumed to spit for a lot more than that. Maybe it's not even the saliva creation that you have an issue with, but maybe the act puts a lot of stress on his cheeks? Maybe he tore a muscle and that's why he can only spit 3 times?