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Superman as he was up to, but not including, his fight with Doomsday.

Now, I obviously have my own opinion about this thread, and I'll like to have a healthy debate about it. That opinions is that Superman is superior, all across the board. Don't mistake that for bait - like I said, I want a civilized discussion.

Some rules to keep it civilized:
a). No mocking anybody for their opinion
b). Arguments and feats. I wouldn't like people to start derailing the thread by posting substanceless claims.

Any takers?

Bait, non bait, I don't see why it matters, what else do we have to talk about.

Superman wins

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Bait, non bait, I don't see why it matters, what else do we have to talk about.

Superman wins It's not bait in the sense that I won't ridicule people for having a different opinion. I'm quite eager to argue against them, and I don't see what's bad in that - that's what the forum is for.

All I ask is for the discussion to be argument based.

With that said...
Why do you think Superman wins?

Blue Marvel.

Originally posted by carver9
Blue Marvel.

What feats make you say that?

Trying to get some get back I see. BM wins.

Superman.

They both K'O eachother

Question, has this Superman dropped an elite with a single hit?

Just FYI Byrne wrote Superman for roughly 2 years (across several titles/mini series) for roughly two years.
By Death of Superman it had been several years since he was in charge of Superman's development; the character had already undergone several power ups.
Please use correct bait terminology.

Originally posted by carver9
Question, has this Superman dropped an elite with a single hit? If you're reffering to the Sentry fight, Blue Marvel didn't drop him with one hit - they fight for two pages, exchanging several hits . It just happened that Sentry stopped hitting him enough for Blue Marvel to have an opening and send Sentry into orbit.

Originally posted by riv6672
Just FYI Byrne era is not soley contained to Byrne written titles. It's a convention of title, naming the period before Superman's death at the hands of Doomsday, for simplicity's sake (and due to the nature of the stories, but let's not overchallenge your brain with complexity)

Originally posted by riv6672
Just FYI Byrne wrote Superman for roughly 2 years (across several titles/mini series) for roughly two years.

By Death of Superman it had been several years since he was in charge of Superman's development; the character had already undergone several power ups.
Please use correct bait terminology. Over the few years he was ultra prolific though. Generated something like a dozen trades worth of material, and the impact of those stories had them carrying those plot threads for the next couple years. This era of pre-Doomsday is most often called Byrne Era.

On one hand, what he did in redirecting Superman and the DCU's fate and the amount of effort and whatnot is nothing short of incredible.
On the other hand, that era of comics weren't the real Superman and that's why pretty much everything before Doomsday got written out of continuity.

Originally posted by carver9
Question, has this Superman dropped an elite with a single hit?
Superman knocking out Eclipsed Lar Gand is far more impressive than Adam stunning sentry with a punch.

Originally posted by Juntai
Over the few years he was ultra prolific though. Generated something like a dozen trades worth of material, and the impact of those stories had them carrying those plot threads for the next couple years. This era of pre-Doomsday is most often called Byrne Era.

On one hand, what he did in redirecting Superman and the DCU's fate and the amount of effort and whatnot is nothing short of incredible.
On the other hand, that era of comics weren't the real Superman and that's why pretty much everything before Doomsday got written out of continuity.

How is Byrne era any less "real" then current?

I thought he was one of the most "human" Supermen, with the Superman/man/kryptionian dynamic.

It's one of the few times he felt like a character, and not a checklist of tropes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman knocking out Eclipsed Lar Gand is far more impressive than Adam stunning sentry with a punch.

An extended fight?

Get back to work.

Adam wins, and it's not even close.

Originally posted by Stoic
Adam wins, and it's not even close.

Yep. Superman was powerful back then but it takes a higher level of power to take Adam out which means, anything within the DOS days are just not enough. Where have you been Stoic?

Originally posted by carver9
Yep. Superman was powerful back then but it takes a higher level of power to take Adam out which means, anything within the DOS days are just not enough. Where have you been Stoic?

Where have you been Carver? Btw you see my new sig?

This bait thread is getting carved up

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Where have you been Carver? Btw you see my new sig?

Lol...I noticed my name in your sig. Why are you doing yourself like this?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I noticed my name in your sig. Why are you doing yourself like this?

Because I like riding you.

Btw don't think about leaving the forum..the place would fall apart.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Because I like riding you.

Btw don't think about leaving the forum..the place would fall apart.

Slow your sig down and I think I would be banned waaaaaaaaayyyyy before then. Been banned once, I think the next ban is a 30 day ban. If I'm off that long, I might as well not come back.

Also, the riding comment sound kinda, how can I say it... straight up porn like. Just nasty.

Originally posted by cdtm
How is Byrne era any less "real" then current?

I thought he was one of the most "human" Supermen, with the Superman/man/kryptionian dynamic.

It's one of the few times he felt like a character, and not a checklist of tropes. It was a neat different take on the character, but it wasn't Superman. Which is why it was all written out and different origins written and opened up his pre-Crisis history.

It's OK to be somewhat of a checklist of tropes, when those tropes were all generated by you and picked up by pretenders. The entire superhero genre spins out of Superman.

Superman is always human. He's a god fallen to Earth and raised as a human. His choices and mindset are grounded more in compassionate real world thinking than most other characters. And deals with real world things more than most characters also. Even New52 Superman started out by taking on a corrupt media mogul who was hiring illegals and treating his people badly and avoiding safety regulations by bribing officials. More recently he stood alongside the average joes in a conflict against an overly aggressive police force. He doesn't need to weak and vulnerable to convey humanity. Just as having physical deformaties doesn't make you a good relatable character either.

Part of what makes Worlds Finest such an awesome duo, is the realization that Batman is the human, but is far more disconnected and unbelievable in his actions and thinking than the alien that can turn planets to dust.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was a neat different take on the character, but it wasn't Superman. Which is why it was all written out and different origins written and opened up his pre-Crisis history.

It's OK to be somewhat of a checklist of tropes, when those tropes were all generated by you and picked up by pretenders. The entire superhero genre spins out of Superman.

Superman is always human. He's a god fallen to Earth and raised as a human. His choices and mindset are grounded more in compassionate real world thinking than most other characters. And deals with real world things more than most characters also. Even New52 Superman started out by taking on a corrupt media mogul who was hiring illegals and treating his people badly and avoiding safety regulations by bribing officials. More recently he stood alongside the average joes in a conflict against an overly aggressive police force. He doesn't need to weak and vulnerable to convey humanity. Just as having physical deformaties doesn't make you a good relatable character either.

Part of what makes Worlds Finest such an awesome duo, is the realization that Batman is the human, but is far more disconnected and unbelievable in his actions and thinking than the alien that can turn planets to dust.


Meh, not the least bit convincing or interesting to me. The D in D.C. must stand for Drama.

Originally posted by Juntai
It was a neat different take on the character, but it wasn't Superman. Which is why it was all written out and different origins written and opened up his pre-Crisis history.

It's OK to be somewhat of a checklist of tropes, when those tropes were all generated by you and picked up by pretenders. The entire superhero genre spins out of Superman.

Superman is always human. He's a god fallen to Earth and raised as a human. His choices and mindset are grounded more in compassionate real world thinking than most other characters. And deals with real world things more than most characters also. Even New52 Superman started out by taking on a corrupt media mogul who was hiring illegals and treating his people badly and avoiding safety regulations by bribing officials. More recently he stood alongside the average joes in a conflict against an overly aggressive police force. He doesn't need to weak and vulnerable to convey humanity. Just as having physical deformaties doesn't make you a good relatable character either.

Part of what makes Worlds Finest such an awesome duo, is the realization that Batman is the human, but is far more disconnected and unbelievable in his actions and thinking than the alien that can turn planets to dust.

nice post Marvelites couldn't understand, especially the ones who are ignorant of Superman and hate the character, Superman is basically the father of ALL heroes and the rest of the heroes call him daddy

Superman isn't shit to me or the "Marvelites." He's a Mary Sue prototype from a foregone, white bread era that inspires no one but brainwashed fanboys who never ventured outside of Kansas. His powers make no sense, his holier than thou attitude is repulsive and his stories appeal to drama queens of only the highest order. It's pretty amazing to see the perve still has any fans at all. They seem to live through him and present a similar number of contradictions. When the going gets tough, they look for someone of a higher order to save the day and when that doesn't happen, it's time to play the crying game.

Originally posted by abhilegend



You like that Abby, baby?

Get back on topic, please.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Superman isn't shit to me or the "Marvelites." He's a Mary Sue prototype from a foregone, white bread era that inspires no one but brainwashed fanboys who never ventured outside of Kansas. His powers make no sense, his holier than thou attitude is repulsive and his stories appeal to drama queens of only the highest order. It's pretty amazing to see the perve still has any fans at all. They seem to live through him and present a similar number of contradictions. When the going gets tough, they look for someone of a higher order to save the day and when that doesn't happen, it's time to play the crying game.

Superman is the daddy of Marvel face it and embrace it.

Is not Superman's fault that your dad used to touch you while watching Superman cartoons while you were little and that caused an irrational hate towards the character, so, now, please, shut up before you end up getting Pr to white knight you again.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Get back on topic, please.

I just saw this, ill get back on topic

ermm

Anyway, seeing as Blue Marvel has objectively worse feats than even Bryne Era Superman, he loses.

There is nothing to keep him from getting speed blitzed by even this era of Superman.

Also, Mary Sue is a term used for fan-fiction characters. You can't be a Mary Sue when you are the archetype. Especially the archetype of an entire genre.

Supes is pretty much on the same level as Santa Claus, Hercules, and Paul Bunyan. Mythic folk heroes and legends. He has transcended his commercial medium unlike any other character.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
Superman isn't shit to me or the "Marvelites." He's a Mary Sue prototype from a foregone, white bread era that inspires no one but brainwashed fanboys who never ventured outside of Kansas. His powers make no sense, his holier than thou attitude is repulsive and his stories appeal to drama queens of only the highest order. It's pretty amazing to see the perve still has any fans at all. They seem to live through him and present a similar number of contradictions. When the going gets tough, they look for someone of a higher order to save the day and when that doesn't happen, it's time to play the crying game.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Anyway, seeing as Blue Marvel has objectively worse feats than even Bryne Era Superman, he loses.

There is nothing to keep him from getting speed blitzed by even this era of Superman.

Also, Mary Sue is a term used for fan-fiction characters. You can't be a Mary Sue when you are the archetype. Especially the archetype of an entire genre.

Supes is pretty much on the same level as Santa Claus, Hercules, and Paul Bunyan. Mythic folk heroes and legends. He has transcended his commercial medium unlike any other character.

bump.

A year has passed. Can Blue Marvel compete?

BM.

This version of Superman would give any Herald an amazing fight, including and not limited too, current Supes as well but in the end, Byrne era Supes would lose this.

Current Supes would take the majority though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No. It's gotten worse for him actually. Appearing in a team comic will do that. How has it gotten worse? He already had solid feats when he was solo, recently hurt thanos with his attacks, and has been having his intelligence and versatility played up.

Originally posted by deathslash
How has it gotten worse? He already had solid feats when he was solo, recently hurt thanos with his attacks, and has been having his intelligence and versatility played up.
He hurt Thanos under Bendis when Thing nearly caved Thanos' face in.

He looked inferior to America Chavez, nearly got swallowed by a random chitauri leviathan, got beaten up by a random monster and so on.

There is not a single good combat feat for him in Ultimates.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He hurt Thanos under Bendis when Thing nearly caved Thanos' face in.

He looked inferior to America Chavez, nearly got swallowed by a random chitauri leviathan, got beaten up by a random monster and so on.

There is not a single good combat feat for him in Ultimates.

Really? That monster is a cosmic entity requiring two teams to handle and requiring Galactus to defeat. Nearly getting swallowed from behind is not a low showing. Never looks inferior to Chavez.

Isn't Destroke whipping up on Superman now?

This is the power-up paradox. Many heroes get power ups that are explicitly referenced and may result in them accomplishing things they previously could not, e.g. fly in space without needing oxygen, move a planet, etc. Sometimes these power ups even allow them to defeat foes they could not before, or beat foes they had previously been able to vanquish, but do so more easily. More rarely, powered-up heroes even beat a few other established heroes they could not beat before.

And yet, over time, powered-up heroes rarely move up or down in the hero hierarchy of power, which is the only relatively consistent thing in comics, for all it's inconsistencies.

So yeah, Superman became more powerful after Byrne. And yet early on, Superman was called the most powerful hero, Wonder Woman second, and they had close fights most of the time. Flash forward twenty years, and the same thing is essentially true.

Iron man may be the poster child for all of this. Think of how many upgrades he's had, and yet he still seems to occupy roughly the same rung in the hero ladder.

It's the rare power up that really moves the needle in the hero hierarchy AND sticks over time.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Really? That monster is a cosmic entity requiring two teams to handle and requiring Galactus to defeat. Nearly getting swallowed from behind is not a low showing. Never looks inferior to Chavez.

Isn't Destroke whipping up on Superman now?
That's a lot of excuses for his lackluster showings.

No.

At their best without looking at low showings I'd pick Adam decisively over Byrne era Superman. Adam has without a doubt been able to manipulate energy, and do so with surgical precision. Able to take Pagan (off panel) who previously wrecked a powerful Avengers lineup which included Scarlett Witch, Thor, Wonder Man, etc. He was able to nearly break even with an Avengers team that had Sentry, Wonder Man and Iron Man, etc while trying to sell them on a strategy to take down Anti Man. Beat down King Hyperion after he decided to get serious. I've read all of the Ultimates and can't really see how he's had a low showing against any small threat to date.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
This is the power-up paradox. Many heroes get power ups that are explicitly referenced and may result in them accomplishing things they previously could not, e.g. fly in space without needing oxygen, move a planet, etc. Sometimes these power ups even allow them to defeat foes they could not before, or beat foes they had previously been able to vanquish, but do so more easily. More rarely, powered-up heroes even beat a few other established heroes they could not beat before.

And yet, over time, powered-up heroes rarely move up or down in the hero hierarchy of power, which is the only relatively consistent thing in comics, for all it's inconsistencies.

So yeah, Superman became more powerful after Byrne. And yet early on, Superman was called the most powerful hero, Wonder Woman second, and they had close fights most of the time. Flash forward twenty years, and the same thing is essentially true.

Iron man may be the poster child for all of this. Think of how many upgrades he's had, and yet he still seems to occupy roughly the same rung in the hero ladder.

It's the rare power up that really moves the needle in the hero hierarchy AND sticks over time.

Other characters like WW and Captain Marvel also got powers and caught up... At least until post IC where Superman pulled away again. Superman power boosts largely stuck, as anyone who actually reads the comics knows and has known for decades.. As you SHOULD know and gave been corrected multiple times by me over the course of YEARS now. Stop lying.

Your view of how comics actually work is infantile. Other characters did not need power ups to catch up. Others may have gotten power ups, and stayed in their same rank--just like Superman. Others did not get power ups, and also largely stayed in the same rank.

Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Your view of how comics actually work is infantile.

You dont actually read them and Have t for years to be making the goofball assertions you've made for a decade now. You aren't in a position to judge whatsoever.


"May" so.. You don't actually know and yet again are pulling nonsense to avoid actually having an valid opinion based on actually reading the books?

Give specifics. ONLY Orion among his peers stayed competitive in combat Post IC and he got an explicit upgrade in formidability in the Byrne JK4W into his Simonson portrayal to becoming a Darkseid beater in physical combat via skill and savagery. Even then Supermans prior relative power upgrade up to Darkseid level strength-- Darkseid overpowered Orion with one hand in relative strength--were still being referenced IN that fight. Later, Orions physical body gets annihilated by Source amped Infinity Man who repeatedly failed to KO Superman.


So which characters did not need powerups to stay in the same rank relative to Superman? PLEASE say JOnn, or Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's a lot of excuses for his lackluster showings.

No.

Not a single excuse since nothing is lackluster.

Yes.

I would say that the main difference between early and late Post-C Superman was perhaps an increase in how often uber-Superman shows up and hits the 'trans' level. But this has happened since the beginning, with various explanations provided for that over time. And often no explanation.

Orion has usually been presented as an equal (or near equal) to Superman (except on the crazy Superman days). He was in Death of the New Gods and he was under Byrne.

I simply disagree with your idea that Shazam and WW also got power ups that stuck prior to the New 52. Did they suddenly jump ahead of MM and Black Adam? Your idea that everyone is keeping track of these power ups just doesn't ring true to me.

It isn't true. This same Superman recently fought DOS Doomsday and admitted he couldn't beat him.

I don't recall Superman necessarily saying he had no chance, but I may not have remembered those fights clearly.
Plus, it doesn't make much sense to imagine there is a complete equivalency between both versions of DOS Doomsday.
Comics aren't realistic and power levels are rarely perfectly consistent.

Ask for proof. Carver is well known for misreading scans. I can post two clear cut examples from the last two months alone lol.

I would like to see BM tanking a Doomsday punch like Superman did

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I would like to see BM tanking a Doomsday punch like Superman did that very same Superman got knocked out by standing next to a gas station when it blew up so.........

Originally posted by deathslash
that very same Superman got knocked out by standing next to a gas station when it blew up so.........

After fighting Doomsday who basically defeated the JLA with one hand non the less.

Fighting Doomsay will take it's toll on Superman.

Oh and I forgot, he also took a Maxima punch right in the face.

I don't know many heroes who will be capable of taking that kind of punishment.

Besides tanking that Doomsday punch like nothing Byrne Superman also went toe to toe with pocketverse Superboy and pre crisis Kryptonians and PC legion members.

He definitely has the feats to justify a victory here.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
After fighting Doomsday who basically defeated the JLA with one hand non the less.

Fighting Doomsay will take it's toll on Superman.

Oh and I forgot, he also took a Maxima punch right in the face.

I don't know many heroes who will be capable of taking that kind of punishment.

He has not taken the bulk of his punishment by that point and much of the fighting up to that point involves Superman fighting alongside the JLA. There is little indication of Superman being physically worn when the explosion happens IMO.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
After fighting Doomsday who basically defeated the JLA with one hand non the less.

Fighting Doomsay will take it's toll on Superman.

Oh and I forgot, he also took a Maxima punch right in the face.

I don't know many heroes who will be capable of taking that kind of punishment. also got kicked through a house and was out of it long enough for Doomsday to knock out booster, walk in the house, crack Ice's ribs, and nearly kill the family.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Not a single excuse since nothing is lackluster.

Yes.
Of course. Nothing says excuses like excuses from you. Originally posted by deathslash
that very same Superman got knocked out by standing next to a gas station when it blew up so......... Originally posted by deathslash
also got kicked through a house and was out of it long enough for Doomsday to knock out booster, walk in the house, crack Ice's ribs, and nearly kill the family.
And later Superman killed the same Doomsday in one punch while he was getting stronger.

Blue Marvel will be beaten black and blue and will earn his title here.

Did he hit him anytime before that single punch or was that the only punch shown in that fight.

Not as if Doomsday doesn't have a healing factor...

I see that Dark post after almost 90% of my posts.

Originally posted by carver9
Did he hit him anytime before that single punch or was that the only punch shown in that fight.
Doomsday was shrugging off everything before that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Doomsday was shrugging off everything before that.

He obviously wasn't shrugging it off if it took one punch to take him out when he became stronger.

Originally posted by carver9
I see that Dark post after almost 90% of my posts.

Bottomless well of idiocy. 90% of your posts are garbage.

Originally posted by carver9
He obviously wasn't shrugging it off if it took one punch to take him out when he became stronger.

Case in point.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
He has not taken the bulk of his punishment by that point and much of the fighting up to that point involves Superman fighting alongside the JLA. There is little indication of Superman being physically worn when the explosion happens IMO.

I have read the story several times.

Fact is DD steamrolled the JLA with one hand and supes and maxima were the only two characters capable of keeping up the fight with DD wich did take it's toll on both Maxima and Superman.
In fact IIRC Maxima got her ribs broken after all this and Maxima had some ubber feats under Jurgens. So yes I am comfortable saying that it was an accumulation of all this circumstances.
Now I would like to know what other hero can take this punishment with DD tank DD punches, Maxima haymakers and still stay on one piece? Certantly there are not too many of them.

Originally posted by deathslash
also got kicked through a house and was out of it long enough for Doomsday to knock out booster, walk in the house, crack Ice's ribs, and nearly kill the family.

And this is Doomsday we are talking about. Doomsday is not a walk in the park.

Just tanking a Doomsday punch like nothing speaks volumes of Byrne Superman.

Please show me a marvel character doing something similar. I think the closest will be SS tanking that she hulk punch but that is still way low of Superman tanking this DD punch.

Originally posted by carver9
He obviously wasn't shrugging it off if it took one punch to take him out when he became stronger.
facepalm

I would like to see how many marvel characters can tank a punch of a Doomsday level character like Byrne Superman did.

Or maybe fighting pc kryptonian level characters

Please show scans

Superman.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
And this is Doomsday we are talking about. Doomsday is not a walk in the park.

Just tanking a Doomsday punch like nothing speaks volumes of Byrne Superman.

Please show me a marvel character doing something similar. I think the closest will be SS tanking that she hulk punch but that is still way low of Superman tanking this DD punch. not saying that BM wins, but Doomsday's only feats up until that punch consisted of him beating a peak human nearly to death (which is hilarious considering that Doomsday doesn't hold back and with proper medical attention, Beatle made a full recovery), knocking Martian manhunter back (amid a field of fire btw), and beating guy Gardner (who didn't even have his shields up (lol)).

Not trying to take anything away from Superman, but Jesus, getting knocked through a house vs getting knocked into orbit (and only stopping because you hit a satellite); which one seems more impressive to you?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I would like to see how many marvel characters can tank a punch of a Doomsday level character like Byrne Superman did.

Or maybe fighting pc kryptonian level characters

Please show scans

Maybe Busiek's Nefaria. I do think that the clear implication is that Doomsday underestimates the force necessary to hurt Superman and subsequently puts more into every blow. Thus, every blow after than hurts Superman. So more than one character could take that particular blow, yet not take the more forceful blows delivered after.

http://oi93.photobucket.com/albums/l46/gaarakaku/fighting%20pics/Count%20Nefaria/avengersv333taintedloveys0.jpg

I believe that if the gas station scene was absent, no one would be arguing that Superman is worn out at that point. There simply is no indication of it.

Originally posted by deathslash
not saying that BM wins, but Doomsday's only feats up until that punch consisted of him beating a peak human nearly to death (which is hilarious considering that Doomsday doesn't hold back and with proper medical attention, Beatle made a full recovery), knocking Martian manhunter back (amid a field of fire btw), and beating guy Gardner (who didn't even have his shields up (lol)).

Not trying to take anything away from Superman, but Jesus, getting knocked through a house vs getting knocked into orbit (and only stopping because you hit a satellite); which one seems more impressive to you?

Maybe you should check Doomdday year one.

Originally posted by deathslash
not saying that BM wins, but Doomsday's only feats up until that punch consisted of him beating a peak human nearly to death (which is hilarious considering that Doomsday doesn't hold back and with proper medical attention, Beatle made a full recovery), knocking Martian manhunter back (amid a field of fire btw), and beating guy Gardner (who didn't even have his shields up (lol)).

Not trying to take anything away from Superman, but Jesus, getting knocked through a house vs getting knocked into orbit (and only stopping because you hit a satellite); which one seems more impressive to you?

You beat me to the punch. He didn't even kill Booster and no one here can say Doomsday holds back.

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Maybe Busiek's Nefaria. I do think that the clear implication is that Doomsday underestimates the force necessary to hurt Superman and subsequently puts more into every blow. Thus, every blow after than hurts Superman. So more than one character could take that particular blow, yet not take the more forceful blows delivered after.

http://oi93.photobucket.com/albums/l46/gaarakaku/fighting%20pics/Count%20Nefaria/avengersv333taintedloveys0.jpg

I believe that if the gas station scene was absent, no one would be arguing that Superman is worn out at that point. There simply is no indication of it.

Actually Doomsday has Dynamic strength based on his evolution factor.

Meaning that he becomes stronger with each revival and that his strength increases on the fly.

At this time DD had already under his belt defeated several GL's, a Guardian (stealmeate) and was already inmune to Radiants 1/5 of Kalaton's wasteland buster.

Superman had already survived Almerac's core under the same writer. Using logic that will mean that Jurgens thinks that a gas station explosion is >>>>>>>>> The core of a planet

Or that superman got KO by the cumulation of attacks he received. Take your pick. It's up to you. I pick the most logical one.

Oh and that was a good showing for classic Nefaria. Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by carver9
You beat me to the punch. He didn't even kill Booster and no one here can say Doomsday holds back.

He also didn't kill Blue Bettle. Therefore Blue bettle >>>>>>>>Superman

Trying to lowball superman or dd is not going to work

Please also mind that I said Byrne Superman has the feats to grant a victory in here.

Never said if he will win or lose, but certantly has the feats to justify a victory in here.

What are BM speed and reaction feats?

Blue Marvel can still compete. What's changed in a year exactly? Marvel seems to be about ready to deep six the Blue Marvel character. I mean how many appearances has he had over the past 6 months?

Marvel stomps

Originally posted by h1a8
What are BM speed and reaction feats? Extra muscle in his leg so he's faster than the average Superman ripoff