Vaylin vs. Darth Wyyrlok (Force battle)

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carthage
Duel takes place in the Prakith temple

NewGuy01
Pssht, Vaylin's powerful but she's a greenie.

Tondemonai
Vaylin. Wyyrlok is more technical but Vaylin's raw is way too much.

FreshestSlice
How does it feel to be the new resident TOR-tard?

Nephthys
He's right though.

FreshestSlice
You saying that pretty much confirms he isn't. Fact is Vaylin is a shit combatant.

Nephthys
That's a fact now, is it? erm

Sinious
Freshest sounds dumber than usual these days. erm

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Nephthys
That's a fact now, is it? erm
Well for everyone else, only having a loss as her only combat experience would be proof of that, but I guess since she's in TOR, that little detail can be glossed over.

Vixas
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How does it feel to be the new resident TOR-tard?

I'd bet he feels like the freshest slice of bread in the package.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fresh, what's it like to be ridiculed, stomped, and roasted on the daily?

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well for everyone else, only having a loss as her only combat experience would be proof of that, but I guess since she's in TOR, that little detail can be glossed over.

Really?

Losing alone doesn't make someone a shit combatant

Its who they lose to that determines how good or bad they are

Hell, with her feats, it speaks more about the person that beat her being awesome than anything about her being shit

Not that I know the circumstances (I'm mostly acquainted with her through an incomplete respect thread), maybe she was taken out by some mook... which just kind of falls into the typical jobbing any and every force user seems to exhibit.

Look, I get it, critical thinking is kind of like a unicorn for you, but I can tell you its indeed a real thing. :maybe

ILS
ayy lmao

Deronn_solo
Wyyrlok turns her into a drooling mess.

EmperorSidious2
Wyyrlock

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Really?

Losing alone doesn't make someone a shit combatant

Its who they lose to that determines how good or bad they are

Hell, with her feats, it speaks more about the person that beat her being awesome than anything about her being shit

Not that I know the circumstances (I'm mostly acquainted with her through an incomplete respect thread), maybe she was taken out by some mook... which just kind of falls into the typical jobbing any and every force user seems to exhibit.

Look, I get it, critical thinking is kind of like a unicorn for you, but I can tell you its indeed a real thing. :maybe
Except we saw the person who beat her get shit on with the Force. Like absolutely shit on. And this is literally her only showing at the moment. Then again you'd have to know what you're talking about to know that instead of writing long as ramblings for no reason.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Except we saw the person who beat her get shit on with the Force. Like absolutely shit on. And this is literally her only showing at the moment.

Clearly had to be some parity not to die

Or, jobbing

Dooku vs Pirates, Anakin vs Hondo, Obi-Wan unable to generate enough telekinetic power to prevent free falling suicide that hadn't even started to fall yet (the entirety of Season 2 Episode 12 can just **** off thinking about it further)

How many low ends can I cite before you get the hint? :hmm



Why exactly are you projecting onto me? :hmm

By the way, is that stick up your ass a recent accessory? I don't recall you being this bitchy last time I was here regularly *shrugs*

NewGuy01
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123

Or, jobbing

Dooku vs Pirates, Anakin vs Hondo, Grievous vs Gungans, etc.

How many low ends can I cite before you get the hint? :hmm

The difference between this case and those are that those characters have actually won other battles, which secures them as high-class combatants. For all her power, Vaylin's only combat showing was simply unimpressive; in other words, she's just a watered-down, less impressive Kyp 2.0. Low showings can only be considered low showings if the character in question has higher showings to contrast with them, and Vaylin does not. Based on the evidence, Freshest's stance is the most supported tbh.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by NewGuy01
The difference between this case and those are that those characters have won other battles, which secures them as high-class combatants. For all her power, Vaylin's only combat showing was simply unimpressive; in other words, she's just a watered-down Kyp 2.0. Low showings can only be considered low showings if the character in question has higher showings to contrast with them, and Vaylin does not. Based on the evidence, Freshest's stance is the most supported tbh.

And this doesn't strike you as moving the goal posts... why?

She has feats of great power, the strain doesn't appear to destroy her stamina from the little I've seen... why exactly would I assume she can't dredge up this kind of power in combat unless the narrative specifically notes it?

Force Users are consistently portrayed as about as smart as lobotomized fish when it comes to using their powers in combat or outside it, seems like a hefty double standard to say she's not behaving the same and suffering from the same bad writing *shrugs*

Note, I'm not even talking in context of who takes the thread. I'm once more just nitpicking his argument because its structure seems about as sound as straw supporting thick sheets of steel.

FreshestSlice
Because her being a bad combatant, not weak, was the entire point from the beginning? You're the one straying from the mark. erm

ChaosTheory123
I just don't take that as being bad at combat

Maybe it's just where I come from

Where I often encounter characters that have ridiculous feats, yet never technically fight anyone of note or at all

Why would I ask "is this person cabable of fighting"?

The route you seem to be going is she lacks skill, yet skill's hardly a stat worth considering unless there's rough parity between combatants in the first place. Overwhelming raw power trumps all sans bad writing bar none. You can't overcome massive stat disparity with finesse, it doesn't make up for being drowned in joules *shrugs*

ChaosTheory123
Just clarify for me

Who defeats Vaylin?

I just want to know how to frame this for you in a potential rebuttal *shrugs*

FreshestSlice
Vaylin doesn't have "overwhelming power" just because she's ripped some plating up, and when she actually fought someone, actually using her "overwhelming TK," she lost. I'm sure she's powerful, but with no actual application of that power, it means absolute shit, especially with neutral starting distance. The fact that she's clinically insane helps. And the only one you need to worry about me thinking defeats Vaylin is Wyyrlok.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vaylin doesn't have "overwhelming power" just because she's ripped some plating up, and when she actually fought someone, actually using her "overwhelming TK," she lost.

Most would generally conclude either the person she was fighting was stronger at the moment (assuming they had a beam o war) or she was written like an idiot and forgot she had TK in the first place

Probably a few other options, but I can't think of them off the top of my head without seeing the fight



Having not seen the fight she lost, why exactly are you assuming she wasn't using the kind of telekinetic power she exhibited tossing that building?

If you're going to cite lack of collateral, that's not good enough for me personally given I generally ignore conservation of energy

If you guys don't, I only hope you're consistent about it as to not look like hypocrites *shrugs*



Insanity can nerf an otherwise powerful fighter yeah

Depends on the type though

If she's constantly in a state of bloodlust, it'd only help her go for the big guns first. Or savor the deaths of her foes too I guess and draw it out.

Don't care about the outcome of the thread, I care about how the conclusion is reached

I debate semantics, because discussing the outcome in this hobby after 5 years bores me.

NewGuy01
The argument you're making here is valid, but redundant. If Vaylin's defeat could be chalked to her being retarded about using her powers, she'd still lose because she's retarded about using her powers.

ChaosTheory123
Its not like any other Force user is particularly smart about using their powers

Its not exactly exclusive to this *****

There shouldn't be lightsaber duels with some of the feats the high and top tiers have

It should look more like beam o war spam

I mean, I get what you're saying about redundant, but I just don't see this as an issue exclusive to her

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Most would generally conclude either the person she was fighting was stronger at the moment (assuming they had a beam o war) or she was written like an idiot and forgot she had TK in the first place

Probably a few other options, but I can't think of them off the top of my head without seeing the fight

We already know the person who defeated her is far weaker than her when she was a child, so no. No one would conclude she was stronger.

Because I actually did see it? Again, Vaylin has never torn up buildings. She ripped up plating. And none of this has EVER been demonstrated in a combat situation.

Wut?

Liking to torture people and raving doesn't make you powerful.

That's nice. Not why anyone else is here though. You going to show why Vaylin is a good combatant now, or am I waiting with baited breath for nothing?
@NewGuy, exactly. This is about Vaylin's combat effectiveness. Not he powerful she is. The fact that she can rip up plate with an army behind her is nice. Has nothing to do with the point being made.

Nephthys
An army? Lolwut? She's by herself and casually rips up a section of plating that compares in size to a building and tosses it like a hundred feet.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Its not like any other Force user is particularly smart about using their powers

Its not exactly exclusive to this *****

There shouldn't be lightsaber duels with some of the feats the high and top tiers have

It should look more like beam o war spam


But they're not.

ChaosTheory123
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
We already know the person who defeated her is far weaker than her when she was a child, so no. No one would conclude she was stronger.

And if you'd link me video of this and the fight, maybe we could discuss something constructive instead of you ineffectually snarking :hmm



Semantics... really?

Buildings and that plating are hollow structures.

In her case, she tossed and ripped apart particularly thick metal plating that looked several stories high if not more. How thick the plating needs to be to emulate a volume of material comparable to a building of similar size is pithy.



So conservation of energy it is then

If that's how you guys roll, fair enough



Do you hold all characters to the same standard as far as conservation of energy is concerned around here?

If so, continue debating how you will *shrugs*

That's all I meant by it



What's with this unrelated tangent you're going on exactly?



And that's the beauty of this hobby, you don't have to be doing this the way I go about it :maybe



Can't say I will

Mostly because you seem to continue to refuse to link me anything to gather context

Originally posted by NewGuy01
But they're not.

I know

So why exactly are we discussing what is a "good combatant" in the first place when they all seem to be rubbish at it?

Sinious
LOL @ Vaylin battling with Wyyrlok the same way she fought against her mother.

Seriously, she barely used the force there and we've seen what she is capable of when she does.

Beniboybling
^^

Senya also evaded those attacks and used her melee advantage to incapacitate Vaylin, helped by Vaylin making no attempt to put a distance between them.

In a Force battle Wyyrlok can't employ those tactics.

Nephthys
Also, I'm not sure if it's relevant but that thing where she see's through Valkorion's like, flow-walking??, or whatever happens in episode 2 suggests heightened perceptions that could be useful against Wyyrlok.

Beniboybling
I think her biggest challenge will be overcoming his illusions, those perceptions might be of use in seeing through them.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Nephthys
An army? Lolwut? She's by herself and casually rips up a section of plating that compares in size to a building and tosses it like a hundred feet.
She's by herself in a factory that builds their army lead by platoons of KoZ? Are you insane?

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Sinious
LOL @ Vaylin battling with Wyyrlok the same way she fought against her mother.

Seriously, she barely used the force there and we've seen what she is capable of when she does.
Barely used the Force because she was being pressured the entire time. She was trying to kill Senya. I doubt sentiment her as she kinds of hates her mother in every way. She wasn't holding back.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She's by herself in a factory that builds their army lead by platoons of KoZ? Are you insane? Tbh I'm confused as to how the presence of an army boosts Valyin's TK, were they cheerleading or something?

Nephthys
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She's by herself in a factory that builds their army lead by platoons of KoZ? Are you insane?

Are you senile? She's standing outside on a platform/walkway. She has no troops near her, she has no backup. Not that that would boost her tk, you blithering tool.

SunRazer
Does anyone have a link to this TK feat?

Nephthys
IHCH_Bz75hg

7.12.

SunRazer
Ah, XLetalis.

Anyway, the feat is nice, but not really something she has the time to summon up in the heat of a fight. What's this thing about an army amping her? I don't see anything to suggest that she was receiving some sort of Force-oriented support from anyone.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by SunRazer
What's this thing about an army amping her? I don't see anything to suggest that she was receiving some sort of Force-oriented support from anyone. They provided moral support, and a fwiendly, familiar environment. smile

Sinious
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Barely used the Force because she was being pressured the entire time. She was trying to kill Senya. I doubt sentiment her as she kinds of hates her mother in every way. She wasn't holding back. Vaylin has feats to suggest that she can do a lot more than that. We dont know what exactly was going through her mind, but we know that it was a very personal conflict. Wyyrlok is a stranger to her and won't be able to keep up when Vaylin uses that insane TK of hers.

Beniboybling
She was being pressured by Senya's melee abilities tbh.

Sinious
I'm explaining why that was possible for Senya to pull off in the first place. But yeah, even if Vaylin didn't have any emotional conflicts, Wyyrlok still won't be able to press her like tha cause this is force only and both sides will go all out on each other.

Tondemonai
The reason she held back so much was so she could **** with Senya's mind. She told her about how Arcann killrd Thexan and just completely mind****ed her with her the whole fight to just watch her mother be in pain.

Also another fear that it seems people forget about is the fact that she was MOVING FURNITURE WITH THE FORCE FROM INSIDE THE ****ING WOMB! Wyyrlok has shit on that. She takes it for sure.

Syndicate
Vaylin.

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