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Who wins ?

I can only vaguely recall Azog's feats, but he did manage to get the better of Legolas in a fistfight. That alone should net him the win.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I can only vaguely recall Azog's feats, but he did manage to get the better of Legolas in a fistfight. That alone should net him the win. He did not fight Legolas.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He did not fight Legolas. Oh, I was thinking of his son, wasn't I?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh, I was thinking of his son, wasn't I? Yes.

THE MOUNTAIN

Originally posted by NemeBro
I can only vaguely recall Azog's feats, but he did manage to get the better of Legolas in a fistfight. That alone should net him the win.

His son did, though Azog should scale to him anyways so, yeah

Originally posted by StealthRanger
His son did, though Azog should scale to him anyways so, yeah Azog is greater than his son.

That's the point

Originally posted by StealthRanger
That's the point So you agree with me.

I wouldn't say greater per se, but more by slight exaggeration of the scaling system. In theory he should be more skilled, more experienced and possibly more powerful. Maybe. On the flip side, we could also say that Bolg is younger and stronger. Plus we could also say that being that he has both extremities to freely use, that gives him a big advantage. Sure Azog had a huge knife attached to his arm, but it's not the same as an actual arm that can grab something else...punch or what not. It's a huge disadvantage. Further, by feats Bolg is clearly his superior, having faced better competition and doing better against them. I would say Azog is better, maybe based on lore and scaling, but not based on feats

Azog is clearly better than his son by the films.

based on feats he isn't

Azog.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
based on feats he isn't Who said feats are the only things that matter ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Who said feats are the only things that matter ?

Feats are UNQUESTIONABLY the most important thing in determining power level of characters are formidability. Bolg feats > Azog feats. Period. Now, what are you basing Azog being superior on, if it's not the feats? What overrides Bolg superior feats? Provide evidence

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Bolg feats > Azog feats. Period.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW


Care to contradict said statement with evidence?

If we were discussing the books, you'd be correct, since Azog is dead there from the very start.

But here, in the movie versus forum... even if you believe Bolg is superior, it's not by much.

Azog actually looked more powerful - breaking through the ice, resisting Gandalf's magic, wielding Sauron's mace, etc.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
If we were discussing the books, you'd be correct, since Azog is dead there from the very start.

But here, in the movie versus forum... even if you believe Bolg is superior, it's not by much.

Azog actually looked more powerful - breaking through the ice, resisting Gandalf's magic, wielding Sauron's mace, etc.

You backed away from your original post. I said Bolg's feats > than Azog's feats. You preceded to laugh. Then here you go, well, even if Bolg's feats are better.. it's not by much. So then you admit Bolg's feats are better and thus my original statement isn't funny at all.

Further, when did he resist Gandalf's magic? None of the feats you mentioned are near Bolg's.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You backed away from your original post. I said Bolg's feats > than Azog's feats. You preceded to laugh. Then here you go, well, even if Bolg's feats are better.. it's not by much. So then you admit Bolg's feats are better and thus my original statement isn't funny at all.

Further, when did he resist Gandalf's magic? None of the feats you mentioned are near Bolg's.

To be fair, Kurupt, most of your posts make me laugh.

No, I didn't admit that. Reading comprehension ftw.

He was tanking Gandalf's TK blasts, forcing him to retreat.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
To be fair, Kurupt, most of your posts make me laugh.

No, I didn't admit that. Reading comprehension ftw.

He was tanking Gandalf's TK blasts, forcing him to retreat.

So then, please list the feats of Azog's that are superior to Bolg's. Surely, you must be able to come up with something right? The feats you listed are mediocre at best.

He didn't tank them... he was affected by them and Gandalf proceeded to escape him and his men. Well until Sauron showed up. I would hardly call that an impressive feat.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So then, please list the feats of Azog's that are superior to Bolg's. Surely, you must be able to come up with something right? The feats you listed are mediocre at best.

He didn't tank them... he was affected by them and Gandalf proceeded to escape him and his men. Well until Sauron showed up. I would hardly call that an impressive feat.

Be serious.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Feats are UNQUESTIONABLY the most important thing in determining power level of characters are formidability. Bolg feats > Azog feats. Period. Now, what are you basing Azog being superior on, if it's not the feats? What overrides Bolg superior feats? Provide evidence Azog has better feats as well as the superior portrayal.

Kylo Ren has all the feats but do you believe he is greater than Snoke ?

Common sense isn't so common.

So which feats of Azog are superior then... name them

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So which feats of Azog are superior then... name them You originally made the claim Bolg has better feats. Onus is on you.

We have Bolg:

1. Going one v. one with one of the most skilled deadly fighters in the LOTR verse and holding his own and TWO different occasions. That single feat is greater than ANYTHING Azog ever did on screen

2. Beating Tauriel and Kili at the same time. These two foes were running through Orcs left and right. The same forces that were killing Elves by the hundreds, were getting devastated by these two throughout the movie. Bolg defeated both of them at the same time. Which again, is better than any one v one feats of Azog. Ever.

Your turn.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We have Bolg:

1. Going one v. one with one of the most skilled deadly fighters in the LOTR verse and holding his own and TWO different occasions. That single feat is greater than ANYTHING Azog ever did on screen

2. Beating Tauriel and Kili at the same time. These two foes were running through Orcs left and right. The same forces that were killing Elves by the hundreds, were getting devastated by these two throughout the movie. Bolg defeated both of them at the same time. Which again, is better than any one v one feats of Azog. Ever.

Your turn. 1. Legolas killed him. Legolas wasn't significantly injured at all. That's not impressive.

2. Those guys weren't shit compared to Thorin. The movie made it clear Thorin was their leader the best of the crew.

Critically injuring Thorin with one arm is amazing. He also bested him in the first film. Their first fight Azog was clearly superior and Thorin was disarmed and got kind of lucky but that still didn't stop Azog's resolve.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Legolas killed him. Legolas wasn't significantly injured at all. That's not impressive.

2. Those guys weren't shit compared to Thorin. The movie made it clear Thorin was their leader the best of the crew.

Critically injuring Thorin with one arm is amazing. He also bested him in the first film. Their first fight Azog was clearly superior and Thorin was disarmed and got kind of lucky but that still didn't stop Azog's resolve.

Nothing what you posted are even close to what I posted.

How are you citing him LOSING to Thorin as a feat worth anything. He lost TWICE to Thorin, not once, but twice. The only reason he was even able to inflict a mortal wound on Thorin was by surprise when Thorin thought he had won. Only then was he able to gain the advantage. Before that, in direct combat he got outsmarted and was tactically inferior to Thorin. You cite two fights he lost. The first time he also lost.. his arm was cut totally off and he was dragged away from the fight by his people. He certainly didn't win.

Legolas is superior to Thorin skill wise and in every conceivable way really, and yet, Bolg stalemated him the first time they faced off.

Now I'm waiting of the feats superior to stalemating Legolas one time and giving him a great fight the second time. As well as beating Tauriel and Kili at the same time. Coming back with losing to Thorin twice isn't going to cut it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Nothing what you posted are even close to what I posted.

How are you citing him LOSING to Thorin as a feat worth anything. He lost TWICE to Thorin, not once, but twice. The only reason he was even able to inflict a mortal wound on Thorin was by surprise when Thorin thought he had won. Only then was he able to gain the advantage. Before that, in direct combat he got outsmarted and was tactically inferior to Thorin. You cite two fights he lost. The first time he also lost.. his arm was cut totally off and he was dragged away from the fight by his people. He certainly didn't win.

Legolas is superior to Thorin skill wise and in every conceivable way really, and yet, Bolg stalemated him the first time they faced off.

Now I'm waiting of the feats superior to stalemating Legolas one time and giving him a great fight the second time. As well as beating Tauriel and Kili at the same time. Coming back with losing to Thorin twice isn't going to cut it. He defeated Thorin and disarmed him. He also fatally wounded him first. Legolas killed him and walked away just fine. Thorin was also saved in the first film after he passed out.

Oh please. If they fought it'd be a war and you know it. Bolg didn't harm him in any significant way.

Legolas killing him isn't that impressive.

He NEVER beat Thorin NOT ONE TIME. Disarming him isn't defeating him. Which we CLEARLY see by Thorin improvising and inflicting severe damage on Azog. So much damage that he had to be dragged away from the fight (Shit, in the books he was killed by it). He lost that fight by arm severing and leaving the fight. He lost. He second fight he also lost. He died first and Thorin was scene for minutes afterwards alive and talking to Bilbo. In fact, the only reason Azog was even able to hurt Thorin at all was by surprise attack when Thorin thought he was dead. Prior to that, in direct combat, Azog was defeated.

How on earth you can cite two fights he lost as proof is hilarious to me. Bolg's feats shit all over Azog. Come up with something more than him losing or I'll accept your concession yet again.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
He NEVER beat Thorin NOT ONE TIME. Disarming him isn't defeating him. Which we CLEARLY see by Thorin improvising and inflicting severe damage on Azog. So much damage that he had to be dragged away from the fight (Shit, in the books he was killed by it). He lost that fight by arm severing and leaving the fight. He lost. He second fight he also lost. He died first and Thorin was scene for minutes afterwards alive and talking to Bilbo. In fact, the only reason Azog was even able to hurt Thorin at all was by surprise attack when Thorin thought he was dead. Prior to that, in direct combat, Azog was defeated.

How on earth you can cite two fights he lost as proof is hilarious to me. Bolg's feats shit all over Azog. Come up with something more than him losing or I'll accept your concession yet again. Watch the film. At the end of the first hobbit film Thorin was defeated by Azog.

He fatally injured him so they both died. The only way Thorin would counter was to let him fatally wound him. Amazing showing. In combat he saw him the entire time so that's on him. Crafty move.

Bolg was killed and Legolas walked away from the fight minus a serious injury.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Watch the film. At the end of the first hobbit film Thorin was defeated by Azog.

He fatally injured him so they both died. The only way Thorin would counter was to let him fatally wound him. Amazing showing. In combat he saw him the entire time so that's on him. Crafty move.

Bolg was killed and Legolas walked away from the fight minus a serious injury.

So you haven't seen the first hobbit film then. I thought you hadn't. Now it all makes sense. Either that, or you have no idea what the term defeat means. He CLEARLY WASN'T defeat as he improvised.. picked up another weapon and proceeded to severely injure Azog. So much so, that they drag them away. So telling was the reversal of momentum, that it was stated Throin doing what he did breathed life back into the Dwarves and they rallied and pushed the Orcs back. Not only wasn't he defeated, his victory over Azog rallied the other dwarves and they won the battle. Now it's clear you never watched the first movie if you missed this whole scene.

He lost, period, two times to Thorin. He never defeated him. That sad and pathetic. Kili and Tauriel were killing just as many Orcs, and even more if you combine their kills. They were killing orcs left and right, the same orcs that were killing elves left and right. Guess what, Bolg defeated both of them at the same time, and easily at that. That poops all over getting defeated by Thorin twice.

You failed to come up with any other feat besides getting bested by Thorin twice. So come up with a feat, or I accept your concession

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So you haven't seen the first hobbit film then. I thought you hadn't. Now it all makes sense. Either that, or you have no idea what the term defeat means. He CLEARLY WASN'T defeat as he improvised.. picked up another weapon and proceeded to severely injure Azog. So much so, that they drag them away. So telling was the reversal of momentum, that it was stated Throin doing what he did breathed life back into the Dwarves and they rallied and pushed the Orcs back. Not only wasn't he defeated, his victory over Azog rallied the other dwarves and they won the battle. Now it's clear you never watched the first movie if you missed this whole scene.

He lost, period, two times to Thorin. He never defeated him. That sad and pathetic. Kili and Tauriel were killing just as many Orcs, and even more if you combine their kills. They were killing orcs left and right, the same orcs that were killing elves left and right. Guess what, Bolg defeated both of them at the same time, and easily at that. That poops all over getting defeated by Thorin twice.

You failed to come up with any other feat besides getting bested by Thorin twice. So come up with a feat, or I accept your concession I never said Azog beat him in their first fight. He won their second fight at the end of the film.

He also fatally wounded him first for Thorin to get the chance to fatally wound Azog. They both died. Bolg just was easily killed and was lucky Legolas ran out of arrows.

This is totally false

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said Azog beat him in their first fight. He won their second fight at the end of the film.

He also fatally wounded him first for Thorin to get the chance to fatally wound Azog. They both died. Bolg just was easily killed and was lucky Legolas ran out of arrows.

You said this before Originally posted by quanchi112
He defeated Thorin and disarmed him. He also fatally wounded him first. Legolas killed him and walked away just fine. Thorin was also saved in the first film after he passed out.

Oh please. If they fought it'd be a war and you know it. Bolg didn't harm him in any significant way.

Legolas killing him isn't that impressive.

He never defeated Thorin.. he only disarmed himmm. Which only makes the loss even worse for Azog... he was unable to defeat an unarmed foe, and in turn, got defeated.

Even at the end of the first hobbit film... Azog didn't do the damage his beast did. Did you miss the part where he totally puts Thorin in his mouth and flings him around like a rag doll. That was azog that was his beast. The beast initially stuns Thorin by jumping on him.... Then it was the beast who grabbed him and crunched down on him then flung him like a doll. That wasn't Azog defeating anybody, his beast did all the work

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is totally false



You said this before

He never defeated Thorin.. he only disarmed himmm. Which only makes the loss even worse for Azog... he was unable to defeat an unarmed foe, and in turn, got defeated.

Even at the end of the first hobbit film... Azog didn't do the damage his beast did. Did you miss the part where he totally puts Thorin in his mouth and flings him around like a rag doll. That was azog that was his beast. The beast initially stuns Thorin by jumping on him.... Then it was the beast who grabbed him and crunched down on him then flung him like a doll. That wasn't Azog defeating anybody, his beast did all the work He disarmed him in their first fight. In their second fight he defeated him. Thorin put up a legendary defense but he's the badass of the dwarves.

Thorin opposed him and he lost. Azog won and in their last battle Azog fatally wounded him. Yes, that was Azog. You want to ignore Azog beating him because you're biased. I guess if a knight rides a horse and kills someone the horse gets all the credit. Only in the mind of horse face.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He disarmed him in their first fight. In their second fight he defeated him. Thorin put up a legendary defense but he's the badass of the dwarves.

Thorin opposed him and he lost. Azog won and in their last battle Azog fatally wounded him. Yes, that was Azog. You want to ignore Azog beating him because you're biased. I guess if a knight rides a horse and kills someone the horse gets all the credit. Only in the mind of horse face.

Perfect, so by your own standards Viktor was defeated by his daughter since she disarmed him. Gotcha. I'll use that at a later date. Don't think nobody noticed how you claimed he defeated Thorin by disarming him... then claimed you never did. Quote function FTW lol

That's a pitiful display.. you're citing a time when he was BEATEN by an unarmed foe LMAO. That is a piss poor showing not one to cite as evidence. The fact that he was unable to defeat a foe that was unarmed is pitiful

Huge different shorty is that a horse doesn't jump on the guy and then proceeded to impale him with canines and then toss him away like a rag doll. A horse never does that. Huge difference and a piss poor analogy. IF a knight is simply riding a horse and kills somebody with a sword... he gets the credit. If his horse rises up and stomps on a foe.. he doesn't get all the credit. Do you think if you own a pitbull and you release him to attack and enemy... and the dog kills him... by your standards you would say the guy gets the credit for winning the fight.. when in fact... the dog won.

HE LOST... he got defeated by Thorin TWICE... not once but twice. One time when Thorin wasn't even armed. I witnessed Thorin talking to Bilbo AFTER killing Azog... Proving beyond question than Thorin actually won. Azog was already dead... Thorin was alive and talking reminiscing. In either case, again, Azog getting killed by Thorin isn't something to be proud of.

I accept your concession, you don't have a single feat matching Bolg's... So we know based on feats Bolg > Azog.. and easily. Question, does your ugly looks or short stature bother you more?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Perfect, so by your own standards Viktor was defeated by his daughter since she disarmed him. Gotcha. I'll use that at a later date. Don't think nobody noticed how you claimed he defeated Thorin by disarming him... then claimed you never did. Quote function FTW lol

That's a pitiful display.. you're citing a time when he was BEATEN by an unarmed foe LMAO. That is a piss poor showing not one to cite as evidence. The fact that he was unable to defeat a foe that was unarmed is pitiful

Huge different shorty is that a horse doesn't jump on the guy and then proceeded to impale him with canines and then toss him away like a rag doll. A horse never does that. Huge difference and a piss poor analogy. IF a knight is simply riding a horse and kills somebody with a sword... he gets the credit. If his horse rises up and stomps on a foe.. he doesn't get all the credit. Do you think if you own a pitbull and you release him to attack and enemy... and the dog kills him... by your standards you would say the guy gets the credit for winning the fight.. when in fact... the dog won.

HE LOST... he got defeated by Thorin TWICE... not once but twice. One time when Thorin wasn't even armed. I witnessed Thorin talking to Bilbo AFTER killing Azog... Proving beyond question than Thorin actually won. Azog was already dead... Thorin was alive and talking reminiscing. In either case, again, Azog getting killed by Thorin isn't something to be proud of.

I accept your concession, you don't have a single feat matching Bolg's... So we know based on feats Bolg > Azog.. and easily. Question, does your ugly looks or short stature bother you more? No, since I never said Azog wo the first fight. Pay attention. I cited two separate fights you weren't smart enough to figure out.


That was his war beast. Azog controlled his war beast. So you don't think Thorin was armed ? How did he lose his arm ?

1-1 and they both died.

Bolg was killed by Legolas, easily. Lucky he ran out of arrows.

Concession accepted Azog can't match the feats of Bolg... The only feats you could come up with was him losing to Thorin twice. One time was he lost his weapon. Pitiful. In fact, the only time Azog got the better of him was when his oversized dog did all the work.

I already crushed this theory.. A guy also controls his dog.. he tells him when to attack and when to stop. He's trained the dog to attack and attack well. Just because he sends his dog after his foe.. and the dog wins... The owner of the dog didn't win the fight.. the dog did. By your standards here, you're claiming the owner won, which is simply laughable. This is exactly why people laugh at your debating skills. They are simply atrocious.

I accept your concession since you were unable to come up with feats for Azog. Bolg is his superior.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Concession accepted Azog can't match the feats of Bolg... The only feats you could come up with was him losing to Thorin twice. One time was he lost his weapon. Pitiful. In fact, the only time Azog got the better of him was when his oversized dog did all the work.

I already crushed this theory.. A guy also controls his dog.. he tells him when to attack and when to stop. He's trained the dog to attack and attack well. Just because he sends his dog after his foe.. and the dog wins... The owner of the dog didn't win the fight.. the dog did. By your standards here, you're claiming the owner won, which is simply laughable. This is exactly why people laugh at your debating skills. They are simply atrocious.

I accept your concession since you were unable to come up with feats for Azog. Bolg is his superior. He defeated Thorin. He also fatally wounded him first. That's the only way Thorin could fatally wound him. He rode the beast and won against Thorin. Thorin challenged him and lost.

Bolg did no significant damage to Legolas. Great show. It wasn't an epic battle since Legolas easily killed him and the only reason they fought up close and personal is because he ran out of arrows.