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Who do you think takes this?

Is Kenshin too fast?

OR

Is Gut able to keep up with him?

Guts is definitely more durable and has more in his arsenal, but Kenshin has INCREDIBLE speed that I think will be a problem for Guts.

No one?

Why do you make these one sided fights so much?

Kenshin has nothing to puts Guts down, nothing. Especially if Guts pulls out the Berserk Armor.

Originally posted by SquallX
Why do you make these one sided fights so much?

Kenshin has nothing to puts Guts down, nothing. Especially if Guts pulls out the Berserk Armor.

Just because you disagree, doesn't make it true.

What if Kenshin gets a real Katana?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Just because you disagree, doesn't make it true.

What if Kenshin gets a real Katana?

Still wouldn't do him any good. Guts durability surpasses anyone in the Kenshin verse.

Guts, in a fit of rage hacked his own arm off and was still fighting.

The only Guts I see Kenshin beating is pre Berserk Guts. As in Guts when he first met the Hawks. Even still, it would still be a hard thing to do since that same Guts was still killing people left and right.

Even today, Kenshin is a lot faster then Guts has ever been, arguably, even in Berserker armor.

Though Kenshin can't really kill Guts, so... yeah.

Never watched guts, but kenshin can cleave steel with the butt of his sword and is super sonic in speed...

What feats does this man have?

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Never watched guts, but kenshin can cleave steel with the butt of his sword and is super sonic in speed...

What feats does this man have?

Go to YouTube and type Guts vs Griffith, or the Immortal Zod.

Kenshin's speed indeed would be problematic, but Guts has fought Rosine, who moves at supersonic speed. That, and I'm not sure if Kenshin can take down Guts, considering how much damage Guts can take, and how he always survived, all this time.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Never watched guts, but kenshin can cleave steel with the butt of his sword and is super sonic in speed...

What feats does this man have?

Kenshin isn't Super Sonic, he's very fast though.

Originally posted by SquallX
Go to YouTube and type Guts vs Griffith, or the Immortal Zod.

Those fights are not even close to the best in the series.

The best would be him killing demons, and taking down 100 men.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Those fights are not even close to the best in the series.

The best would be him killing demons, and taking down 100 men.

You do know Griffith is worth more than those 100 men right?

The Skull Knight who is a threat to the God Hands has fought against Zod. The same Zod who schooled both Griffith and Guts casually.

Originally posted by SquallX
You do know Griffith is worth more than those 100 men right?

The Skull Knight who is a threat to the God Hands has fought against Zod. The same Zod who schooled both Griffith and Guts casually.

You won't find the post 100-war Griffith vs Guts on youtube without watching the whole episode.

The God Hands are above Skull Knight.

I'd argue Ganishka is above Skull Knight as well.

Guts is getting close to SK anyway.

The point ie, to an on-looker, 100 men is more impressive then Griffith or Zodd.

Its also what pre-Eclipse Guts is best-known for.

Aside from speed, Kenshin is also extremely skilled at reading foe's intentions and movements.


Strength wise, he's broken through metal armor, and his best move creates a small vacuum where it hits.


It's a tough call because they're two very different combatants.

Guts is stronger, more durable, and most importantly much faster than Kenshin. Particularly if he is using the Berserk armour.

A better fight might be Kenshin's master. Kenshin himself gets put in the ground.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Guts is stronger, more durable, and most importantly much faster than Kenshin. Particularly if he is using the Berserk armour.

A better fight might be Kenshin's master. Kenshin himself gets put in the ground.

When has Guts been faster then Kenshin?

The Kenshin that was so fast that he was in multiple places at once.

Also, Kenshin beat his master in a fair fight.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
When has Guts been faster then Kenshin?

The Kenshin that was so fast that he was in multiple places at once.

Kenshin fought a foe who spends the whole fight moving so fast that he can't be seen.

And, importantly, can maneuver at speed, just blitzing a foe with high speed is not enough in Kenshinland.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Guts is ... and most importantly much faster than Kenshin.
How? Himura Kenshin cut a clay cannonball in half with a quick-draw.

http://i.imgur.com/MJQPw1nm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/LndIhcnm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/DdMcKLPm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/PIOC87nm.jpg

He also stopped a bullet with his sword hilt.

http://i.imgur.com/SXTlSZnm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xixEKssm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/QyneiFIm.jpg

And these are early feats from the manga when he was still rusty.

Before you say "Guts dodged Rosine's sonic booms," no he didn't! Guts had no hope of reacting to her at those speeds, he was flung around like a rag doll with no hope of reacting to her.

http://i.imgur.com/QFIo3iqm.jpg

In fact, he had to purposely get caught by her to land a blow.

http://i.imgur.com/mGfRI6sm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/o1dQDIKm.png

Originally posted by Astner
How? Himura Kenshin cut a clay cannonball in half with a quick-draw.

http://i.imgur.com/MJQPw1nm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/LndIhcnm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/DdMcKLPm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/PIOC87nm.jpg

He also stopped a bullet with his sword hilt.

http://i.imgur.com/SXTlSZnm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/xixEKssm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/QyneiFIm.jpg

And these are early feats from the manga when he was still rusty.

Before you say "Guts dodged Rosine's sonic booms," no he didn't! Guts had no hope of reacting to her at those speeds, he was flung around like a rag doll with no hope of reacting to her.

http://i.imgur.com/QFIo3iqm.jpg

In fact, he had to purposely get caught by her to land a blow.

http://i.imgur.com/mGfRI6sm.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/o1dQDIKm.png Didn't Guts get run over by Rosine??

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Didn't Guts get run over by Rosine??
Guts got wrecked by Rosine. The only reason he managed to get the upper-hand and eventually kill her was because she's an idiot and decided to pick him up.

Anyway Rosine like cannonballs travel at transsonic speeds, so Kenshin should've been able to cut her down at her top speed during her dive.

Originally posted by Astner
Guts got wrecked by Rosine. The only reason he managed to get the upper-hand and eventually kill her was because she's an idiot and decided to pick him up.

Anyway Rosine like cannonballs travel at transsonic speeds, so Kenshin should've been able to cut her down at her top speed during her dive. Guts can swing his sword with the strength of a cannonball when in Berserker Armor, at the cost of a broken arm.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Guts can swing his sword with the strength of a cannonball when in Berserker Armor, at the cost of a broken arm.
No. You're thinking of Grunbeld.

http://i.imgur.com/TQPr1Ojm.jpg

But even that's up for debate since there's no confirmation of this beyond Guts' quote "it felt like getting hit by a cannon."

But Kenshin still has comparable feats. Here he cuts down a lamp post and launches it into Kanryū's mansion.

http://i.imgur.com/KHKb11nm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/xoDZVp6m.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/pH0TX6Cm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/STn8kqYm.png

I don't think Kenshin is putting Guts down once he gets his Berserker Armor on.

If he breaks a bone, or loses some blood, it forces him to keep fighting till he dies, or his opponent dies.

On type of that, the Berserker armor itself seems unlikely to be cut by a Katana.

If Guts fights for prolonged periods of time using the Berserk Armor he dies, and considering Kenshin's speed and stamina and ability to sense chi (life-force) it would not be in Guts' best interest to do so.

And if Guts does not use the Berserker Armor then his head is exposed in which case it comes down to speed.

Originally posted by Astner
If Guts fights for prolonged periods of time using the Berserk Armor he dies, and considering Kenshin's speed and stamina and ability to sense chi (life-force) it would not be in Guts' best interest to do so.

And if Guts does not use the Berserker Armor then his head is exposed in which case it comes down to speed. I have a hard time believing that Kenshin can even significantly hurt Guts.

Berserker Armor makes him stronger AND MUCH faster.

ON TOP OF THAT, Guts' Dragonslayer exists on an Astral plain due to all the blood it has bathed in.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
I have a hard time believing that Kenshin can even significantly hurt Guts.
Then you're an idiot. Even regular crossbow bolts have wounded him.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Berserker Armor makes him stronger AND MUCH faster.
As far as the evidence is concerned, not even in the Berserker Armor does Guts have speed feats that compare to Kenshin's.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
ON TOP OF THAT, Guts' Dragonslayer exists on an Astral plain due to all the blood it has bathed in.
That's the explanation for why it can harm ethereal creatures like faeries and dragons. But it's a useless augmentation against a mortal like Kenshin.

Originally posted by Astner
Then you're an idiot. Even regular crossbow bolts have wounded him.


As far as the evidence is concerned, not even in the Berserker Armor does Guts have speed feats that compare to Kenshin's.


That's the explanation for why it can harm ethereal creatures like faeries and dragons. But it's a useless augmentation against a mortal like Kenshin. Wounding him and putting him down are two different things.

Significantly hurting him to me, is borderline putting him down.

Guts, after being shot by a crossbow, and falling off a high cliff into water, forced to swim in heavy armor while carrying someone else, getting punched.

Forced to go into battle, he uses no effort in destroying the third best that Doldrey could offer, and then killing 100 men, by himself.

Not to mention, he was already in the middle of a war earlier, and still had to look after Casca.

PLUS, you forget that Guts is pronse to letting himself get injured just to get an advantage on his opponent. He nearly died trying to get a hit on Bazuso.

The Scenario, lets say Kenshin sees an opening on Guts, slashes him. Guts sees an opening, but realizes he'd have to get stabbed by Kenshin for it to work. Guts doesn't think twice about going through with it. Once Kenshin stabs Guts, all Guts really needs to do is *****-slap him, grab his sword, and break it in half (which he is more then capable of doing, btw).

Then, the only chance Kenshin has is running away, or getting beat senseless by Guts.

This is a guy who cut off his own arm to kill someone, even though that someone was infinitely more powerful then him.

Plus, you aren't even bringing up his arm cannon.

One more scenario.

Kenshin slashes Guts, or stabs him. All Guts needs to do is grab his arm, and shoot him in the face, and he's dead.

You could argue that Kenshin's stab or slash will be fatal, but Guts is not going to die from one slash/stab, its just not going to happen.

I will note that it was specifically said any of the juppongatana, even the weakest, can take 100 foes.




That's assuming Kenshin is hit by the counterattack (he *can* tell if someone is looking to a counterattack), or even harder, grabbing his *sword*. Grabbing someone's arm or sword in combat is really, really hard. Just because Kenshin strikes doesn't mean Guts has anything like that kind of opening, Kenshin's not known for overextending himself.

And Kenshin's sword has stood up to a heck of a lot for that matter, but it's very very unlikely to come up.

Originally posted by Q99
I will note that it was specifically said any of the juppongatana, even the weakest, can take 100 foes.




That's assuming Kenshin is hit by the counterattack (he *can* tell if someone is looking to a counterattack), or even harder, grabbing his *sword*. Grabbing someone's arm or sword in combat is really, really hard. Just because Kenshin strikes doesn't mean Guts has anything like that kind of opening, Kenshin's not known for overextending himself.

And Kenshin's sword has stood up to a heck of a lot for that matter, but it's very very unlikely to come up. Guts sword will instantly break Kenshin's sword if he makes contact.

Even Swords of equal strength gets broken against Guts' sword, a good example would be Zodd.

No one using a sword has ever had their weapon intact after fighting Guts.

It can destroy giant steel flails and axes like nothing.

Originally posted by Q99
I will note that it was specifically said any of the juppongatana, even the weakest, can take 100 foes.




That's assuming Kenshin is hit by the counterattack (he *can* tell if someone is looking to a counterattack), or even harder, grabbing his *sword*. Grabbing someone's arm or sword in combat is really, really hard. Just because Kenshin strikes doesn't mean Guts has anything like that kind of opening, Kenshin's not known for overextending himself.

And Kenshin's sword has stood up to a heck of a lot for that matter, but it's very very unlikely to come up. Thats because not many people have tried it.

After stabbing him, he will have to remove his sword from Guts' body, there is NO way Guts won't take advantage of that moment.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Thats because not many people have tried it.

After stabbing him, he will have to remove his sword from Guts' body, there is NO way Guts won't take advantage of that moment.

Did you see what happened to Shishio when he tried to counter Kenshin?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Kenshin isn't Super Sonic, he's very fast though. its said about 400 times in the anime...

He created sonic booms in the manga.

Originally posted by Q99
Aside from speed, Kenshin is also extremely skilled at reading foe's intentions and movements.


Strength wise, he's broken through metal armor, and his best move creates a small vacuum where it hits.


It's a tough call because they're two very different combatants.

Soujiro proves Kenshin's precog is emotion/intent based, though.

Could he read a mindless, feral animal in berserker armor?

He can read anger easiest of all, he even defeated a quicker opponent based on reading his anger

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
He can read anger easiest of all, he even defeated a quicker opponent based on reading his anger

Yeah, but is an aggressive animal angry, in a way a ki sensor can read on?

Guts Berserker armor acts more like a feral, bloodthirsty wolf then a man.

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, but is an aggressive animal angry, in a way a ki sensor can read on?

Guts Berserker armor acts more like a feral, bloodthirsty wolf then a man.

Yep. Detecting killing intent is the whole thing, feral and bloodthirsty is just more of it.

Emotionless is the way to hide, not broadcasting a ton.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
its said about 400 times in the anime... So what you're saying is, Kenshin moves at the speed of sound?


...Are we serious rn????

He created a vortex capeable of pulling in a man strong enough to laugh off a shot to the head with the same force that shattered thick stone walls.

He did that in one slash, hes also so fast guys who can slash so fast they create blades of wind cant follow his movements.

He also ran through the hail of bullets from a gattling gun

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
He created a vortex capeable of pulling in a man strong enough to laugh off a shot to the head with the same force that shattered thick stone walls.

He did that in one slash, hes also so fast guys who can slash so fast they create blades of wind cant follow his movements.

He also ran through the hail of bullets from a gattling gun

To be fair about the gattling gun, the older guns had terrible aim.

Plus, the operator wasn't a soldier, but a merchant, and Ken was keeping ahead of his aim (Vs was Kasumi Kenshiro did, clearly moving out of a bullets path mid flight.)

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
He created a vortex capeable of pulling in a man strong enough to laugh off a shot to the head with the same force that shattered thick stone walls.

He did that in one slash, hes also so fast guys who can slash so fast they create blades of wind cant follow his movements.

He also ran through the hail of bullets from a gattling gun

...And you think those feats are comparable to sound?...

Wtf?

You think he can create a vortex by swinging his sword at less than sound? Really?

Lol @ the wtf, use your brain.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
You think he can create a vortex by swinging his sword at less than sound? Really?

Lol @ the wtf, use your brain. Yes, I do.

You really don't know how fast Sound is.

Sonic the Hedgehog moves at the speed of sound. Contrary of popular belief, he does NOT move at the speed of light.

Guns do not even move at a fraction of the speed of sound.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Guns do not even move at a fraction of the speed of sound.
No. But bullets do.

Originally posted by Astner
No. But bullets do. Depends on the bullet and the gun.

No gun from Kenshin's time travels faster then the speed of sound.

However, a modern day assault rifle travels two times the speed of sound.

A .22 Long Rifle travels much slower then the speed of sound.

Bullets also don't create vortexes...

Kenshin isn't running a marathon at the speed of sound, but he seems to "teleport" (short distance steps 10-15 steps) right from the eyes of groups of people who are looking directly at him and even guys who are fast enough to create after images say they have to predict Kenshin's movement because they can't see him at his top speed. Hell at his top speed he creates a very obvious sonic boom.

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Bullets also don't create vortexes...

Kenshin isn't running a marathon at the speed of sound, but he seems to "teleport" (short distance steps 10-15 steps) right from the eyes of groups of people who are looking directly at him and even guys who are fast enough to create after images say they have to predict Kenshin's movement because they can't see him at his top speed. Hell at his top speed he creates a very obvious sonic boom. Not going to dignify that, as Kenshin isn't faster then the bullets in his time.

Regardless of how fast you think he is, we know he's fast enough that as mentioned, other people who move so fast they disappear from sight and can run on walls and ceilings for extended amounts of time have trouble seeing him. And his reaction time is fast enough to block bullets as well as easily dodge them.

Now Guts is nowhere near that fast so....

Also, Kenshin is stated as being insanely fast due to his small frame, which lets him utilize Hitten Mitsurugi's speed far more than even his master, because he's so tiny.

And he's got tons of techniques Guts can't defend against, as well as being able to cut steel.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Not going to dignify that, as Kenshin isn't faster then the bullets in his time. cool Concession accepted

Originally posted by KingD19
Regardless of how fast you think he is, we know he's fast enough that as mentioned, other people who move so fast they disappear from sight and can run on walls and ceilings for extended amounts of time have trouble seeing him. And his reaction time is fast enough to block bullets as well as easily dodge them.

Now Guts is nowhere near that fast so....

Also, Kenshin is stated as being insanely fast due to his small frame, which lets him utilize Hitten Mitsurugi's speed far more than even his master, because he's so tiny.

And he's got tons of techniques Guts can't defend against, as well as being able to cut steel. Guts has fought and killed someone that moves faster then Kenshin.

He's fought worse then him.

If he's in his Berserk armor, he wins.

If Kenshin has blocked a bullet, I haven't seen it.

Kenshin is nowhere near the speed of sound, he moves faster then any normal human, but he isn't Sonic the Hedgehog, and he'd really need to be if he didn't want Guts tagging him whatsoever.

Guts is definitely faster enough to tag Kenshin in Berserk Armor. Dude does flips and acrobatics at high speed in the armor, and swings his sword so fast its like a butter knife, he can swing his sword so fast that it will straight up break his arm.

Kenshin can only win if he can avoid Guts and get in some quick strikes.

Even then, the berserker armor only gives up after every bone in the person's body has broken, and the last drop of their blood has been spilled. This is all stated in the Millineum Falcon arc if you want to know about it.

If you wanna see what Guts can do in motion with the berserker armor, go look at the Berserk Millineum Falcon cutscenes in the PS2 game.

After reading through Berserk's Manga deep and thorough.

It has come to my attention that Guts has dodged lightning.

That makes him Mach 300, which is 299x faster then Kenshin.

Guts godstomps.

But, that foe relied pretty much entirely on speed. Kenshin, while fast, does not rely on simple ability to blitz people, his most notable talent is the ability to read opponent's moves and intentions.

Kenshin's still faster than Guts, but it's his whole package that's a threat, with the speed just being one aspect, as he would not

To draw a Naruto analogy, it's kinda like how the chidori is a liability due to it's super-fast speed.... but far less so with the sharingan which lets the user use the speed *and* avoid counterattack. Kenshin's slower than Guts' fastest foe, but he can read counterattacks a lot better.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
After reading through Berserk's Manga deep and thorough.

It has come to my attention that Guts has dodged lightning.

That makes him Mach 300, which is 299x faster then Kenshin.

Guts godstomps.


It really doesn't. Dodging something doesn't require moving remotely near as fast as what you're dodging. If you sense it coming, say, a tenth of a second in advance due to ionization, and move four feet to dodge, then that means you only need to be fast enough to move four feet in a tenth of a second, whether it's an arrow or lightning.


Also, the fact that Guts runs and jumps and fights constantly without moving remotely near that level tells us that's not the case. He does not outrun cannonballs, make arrows look like they're standing still, or plow through an army like a *literal* cannonball allowing his raw momentum and shockwave to splatter them all via simple speed and momentum.

Originally posted by Q99
But, that foe relied pretty much entirely on speed. Kenshin, while fast, does not rely on simple ability to blitz people, his most notable talent is the ability to read opponent's moves and intentions.

Kenshin's still faster than Guts, but it's his whole package that's a threat, with the speed just being one aspect, as he would not

To draw a Naruto analogy, it's kinda like how the chidori is a liability due to it's super-fast speed.... but far less so with the sharingan which lets the user use the speed *and* avoid counterattack. Kenshin's slower than Guts' fastest foe, but he can read counterattacks a lot better.




It really doesn't. Dodging something doesn't require moving remotely near as fast as what you're dodging. If you sense it coming, say, a tenth of a second in advance due to ionization, and move four feet to dodge, then that means you only need to be fast enough to move four feet in a tenth of a second, whether it's an arrow or lightning.


Also, the fact that Guts runs and jumps and fights constantly without moving remotely near that level tells us that's not the case. He does not outrun cannonballs, make arrows look like they're standing still, or plow through an army like a *literal* cannonball allowing his raw momentum and shockwave to splatter them all via simple speed and momentum. He stopped an arrow in midair in his younger days.

Created a tornado, and cut through one, AND dodged one.

When fighting Zodd, he was "too fast for the human eye to see".

He dodged it just before it hit. It shows the lightning nearly touching his feet.

This is Guts fighting as a literal tornado.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Yes, I do.

You really don't know how fast Sound is.

Sonic the Hedgehog moves at the speed of sound. Contrary of popular belief, he does NOT move at the speed of light.



Is that straight from the horses mouth? (Sega's) Or fan calcs?

The toons have his speed all over the place, up to casually breaking the time barrier, but would assume those are non canon.

Originally posted by cdtm
Is that straight from the horses mouth? (Sega's) Or fan calcs?

The toons have his speed all over the place, up to casually breaking the time barrier, but would assume those are non canon. Its in every single source he's ever been portrayed in.

He's literally known as a Hedgehog that runs at the speed of sound, thats his whole purpose.

Sound is usually his "cruising" speed. He's gone lots faster in the shiws, comics, and games.

His dash's are called "light speed dash/spin-dash" .

Ever see the one where Sonic keeps heading back in time to recruit himself, until he has an army of Sonics?

Guts wins in what can only be described as a complete and utter curbstomp. He's stronger, more durable, has far more pain tolerance, has far more reach with his sword, and is still faster than kenshin.