Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

What are some characters who have very few appearances in lightsaber duels/perform so inconsistently, that they've confounded your attempts to categorize them or place them near someone in terms of skill? What makes it difficult for you to rank them, do they seem to perform better in one medium as opposed to another or do they just appear in a comic or a one off appearance?

Ven Zallow.

Darth Bane, Darth Zannah, Kas'im, Raskta Lsu, Sarro Xaj, Set Harth

Kyp Durron.

Darth Nox?

Everyone in TCW.

No idea where to rank Revan personally.

Well, at least with Revan you can get the impression that he's pretty damn good. With Nox, you really don't even have that, nor do you know anything that proves that he sucks.

I think this applies to Luke a lot due to his various inconsistent showings. Luke is a guy that as of Grandmaster status, is capable of slaughtering anyone honestly, but various writers still make him the underdog.

And I think the same could be to Vader/Anakin

Originally posted by Trocity
No idea where to rank Revan personally.
Between NJO Luke Skywalker and Yoda, tbh.

Cay Qel-Droma
Shado Vao
Saesee Tiin
Legends Vos to an extent
Xesh

Kylo Ren- It's hard to place him as we've never seen him duel under normal circumstances i.e. not grievously injured and emotionally unbalanced/unfocused.

Bultar Swan- Lack of material.

Serra Keto- Same.

Palpatine- Honestly it baffles me why so many people keep insisting he's some uber-duellist when expert analysts have provided compelling evidence otherwise. The thing with Palpatine is that he wins duels mainly due to his Force power and super-speed. He doesn't use much real skill or technique.

The Player Character types can be hard, because they're all strong, but it's usually left fairly open what aspects make them strong.


Lesse, you have a few cases where an era doesn't have enough people fighting each other to get much of an idea (though I think the Bane era has enough contestants that fight Bane/Each other to make an educated guess).

One showing wonders aren't actually that hard, you just assume that's the norm for them.

Oh! Cin Drallig. Because he's in a position that implies great skill, his one movie showing has him go out like a total chump, but there's a video game take that implies he's pretty strong, and his apprentice is impressive, so the information is downright contradictory.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Everyone in TCW.

Due to circumstances and occasionally poor writing, yes.

I'd say Grievous. Even though he's had many appearances, but in mediums portraying him very differently.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Kylo Ren- It's hard to place him as we've never seen him duel under normal circumstances i.e. not grievously injured and emotionally unbalanced/unfocused.

Bultar Swan- Lack of material.

Serra Keto- Same.

Palpatine- Honestly it baffles me why so many people keep insisting he's some uber-duellist when expert analysts have provided compelling evidence otherwise. The thing with Palpatine is that he wins duels mainly due to his Force power and super-speed. He doesn't use much real skill or technique.

Don't you start again. You have broken a rule here. Using the versus makers as fact. They themselves have said they aren't facts and aren't to be used as facts. That entire video not only has contradictory evidence to what they say, but is also based on their own perception and way of thinking. Don't come in here with that again. You can have your own opinion but at least do better at proving it then that, and the so called expert analyst they provided isn't that. It's just their opinion which they are welcome to as we are all welcome to our view.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I'd say Grievous. Even though he's had many appearances, but in mediums portraying him very differently.

Yea OCW he taking on Jedi council masters and other masters at once with ease, and fighting even with shaak ti.

LOE he's considered an even challenge with Windu or something like that.

TCW he can't get passed the defenses of Ahsoka tano or even Nadar resulting to a blaster to finish it.

Originally posted by TheNuisanceBird
Due to circumstances and consistently poor writing, yes.

Fixed that for you tbh

3 seasons in to my rewatch and I'm left baffled at the number of times these assholes forget they have superpowers :lmao

Not even talking "crush that droid"

Talking "keep this human from running the **** away" or "why are you letting them commit suicide"

Even contained to TCW alone, they have many feats in excess of the kinetic energy of human sprinting...

Revan who is stated to be a wonderfull duellist but.. You know.. I think for Revan a duel is a realm of possibilities. UDe to his skill level, and variety of skill, he can a shit ton of shit that a regular duellist cannot do, but what he can do exactly is opent to interpretation...

Kreia Too....

Originally posted by chilled monkey

Palpatine- Honestly it baffles me why so many people keep insisting he's some uber-duellist when expert analysts have provided compelling evidence otherwise. The thing with Palpatine is that he wins duels mainly due to his Force power and super-speed. He doesn't use much real skill or technique.

Because he sliced down two council members without them being able to defend, a third who was only briefly able to defend, and only Mace Windu really performed that well against him in a saber duel.

Also, he doesn't win *just* due to speed. Against Savage, he beat him while looking the other direction. He wasn't blitzing him in the slightest, he was just good enough to walk through Savage's defenses like they weren't there.


Sure, he's got a lot of speed... but the people who can match his speed and force power still have plenty of trouble with him, and his dismantling of Savage was an overwhelming finesse thing, not speed or power.

Going solely off of characters who only lack information rather than those who simply have near-conflicting showings in this post....

Personally, Revan is difficult since he has a lot of hype, but most if not all of his comparisons in dueling are against other unquantifiable individuals who's only true comparison is to Revan himself.

Obviously along with Revan is Malak himself.

I also agree Nox is difficult to place as far as sabers go. Obviously they have HIGH force power yet given their medium saber skills is questionable all around for them. We can assume an, at least, proficient level of skill for a Dark Council member but beyond that Nox has one pure saber skill feat to their name and it's not against the most impressive quality opponent as far as their own saber skill could be estimated.

Darth Sion is definitely one I think SHOULD be fairly skilled with a saber, though whether or not he let his abuse of his immortality turn his saber skills to crap is speculatory, as well as the conditions in which he's beaten many of his opponents, like Master Vash.

Kylo Ren as well, seeing as how if you took his injured loss at face-value, and assuming the injury was anything short of completely debilitating, makes him look VERY bad.

Cin Drallig is also odd for me to place, while being the battle-master of the Order it seems like the general impression of him is rather bad. Though that may be only in reference to characters like Anakin?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yea OCW he taking on Jedi council masters and other masters at once with ease, and fighting even with shaak ti.

LOE he's considered an even challenge with Windu or something like that.

TCW he can't get passed the defenses of Ahsoka tano or even Nadar resulting to a blaster to finish it.

Grievous was toying with Ahsoka although yes, Nahdar is a different story.

Anyone in KOTOR/ TOR really.

TOR characters. Extremely powerful characters like GM Luke or DE Sidious.

The TOR main characters seem to suffer from a bit of plot-yo yo in power.

An arc finishes, "Look how powerful your character is beating the boss! You're one of the strongest ever!" A new arc begins, with a new villain, "Oh, you weren't really that strong, this foe's still a lot more powerful!" Repeat.

Originally posted by Vixas

Kylo Ren as well, seeing as how if you took his injured loss at face-value, and assuming the injury was anything short of completely debilitating, makes him look VERY bad.

And realistically, those wounds *should* be majorly debilitating, and then he had to aggravate them in a fight even before getting to the main event.

Well duh people higher up in the Sith hierarchy are more powerful. That's to be expected.

Originally posted by Q99
Because he sliced down two council members without them being able to defend, a third who was only briefly able to defend, and only Mace Windu really performed that well against him in a saber duel.

Also, he doesn't win *just* due to speed. Against Savage, he beat him while looking the other direction. He wasn't blitzing him in the slightest, he was just good enough to walk through Savage's defenses like they weren't there.


Sure, he's got a lot of speed... but the people who can match his speed and force power still have plenty of trouble with him, and his dismantling of Savage was an overwhelming finesse thing, not speed or power.
thank you! people seem to forget that, and plus darth plaguies was his master, who himself was considered an amazing duelist so, naturally hes going to teach him great things, whether he thinks dueling is essential or not because he knows he might ned the skill to fight if the occasion calls for it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Well duh people higher up in the Sith hierarchy are more powerful. That's to be expected.

The thing is the later foes aren't necessarily any higher in the hierarchy. Like, you take on members of the Dark Council noted to be strong for councilors pretty early on, and the Emperor himself before all that long.

Except no. The only loses for the protags before KotFE is HoT to the Emperor and Nox to Thanaton, both of which were higher up the ladder.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
Fixed that for you tbh

3 seasons in to my rewatch and I'm left baffled at the number of times these assholes forget they have superpowers :lmao

Not even talking "crush that droid"

Talking "keep this human from running the **** away" or "why are you letting them commit suicide"

Even contained to TCW alone, they have many feats in excess of the kinetic energy of human sprinting...

Right because people never make mistakes. They never have lapses in judgement or oversights, never get caught up in the heat of the moment, never look back and say "darn, it would have been easier if I'd just done that instead..."

Sorry for the tone but come on. People do stuff like that all the time.

Galen Marek.