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Anything truly impressive from Kylo Ren? The blaster bolt freezing feat did seem like a pretty advanced force technique, but that doesn't even put him anywhere near Ventress level, who easily used the force to actually redirect several blaster bolts while being fired at by dozens of battle droids (Dark Disciple).

What's with all the hype surrounding Rey? Is it just me or was Kylo less impressive than she was impressive, despite years of force training.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
but that doesn't even put him anywhere near Ventress level, who easily used the force to actually redirect several blaster bolts while being fired at by dozens of battle droids (Dark Disciple).


She did? I've read the novel but don't remember that. You have the quote?

^^Tbh

And in the novel Ren deflects Rey's lightsaber attacks with the Force:

"The weapon went flying into the snow. Unarmed, he raised a hand and utilized the Force to fend off one slashing blow after another, until finally her fury penetrated his remaining defenses."

Not sure what else.

EDIT: Found the DD feat:

With their master otherwise occupied on the other side of the bridge, the remaining droids opened fire freely. Dozens of bolts streaked toward Ventress and Kenobi. Calmly, Ventress batted back some with her lightsaber; the others she simply redirected using the Force. Three more droids fell, twitching and sparking.

Meh, sounds like she just deflected them with her hand/tutanimis.

Honestly, freezing the bolt seems more impressive to me then redirecting several. But Ventress is probably the better fighter between the two (though Kylo likely has more raw power).

Originally posted by Beniboybling
^^Tbh

And in the novel Ren deflects Rey's lightsaber attacks with the Force:

"The weapon went flying into the snow. Unarmed, he raised a hand and utilized the Force to fend off one slashing blow after another, until finally her fury penetrated his remaining defenses."

Not sure what else.

^This is Ren's sole saving grace for now tbh

Stopping a blaster bolt with TK is hardly impressive

Either they're largely kinetic energy in how they dispense destruction... in which case any Jedi that can block them has the striking power to match said kinetic energy

Or?

They're largely not kinetic energy and halting the momentum of such a Force is unimpressive regardless

Nice reflexes, that's about all you get from this though

Originally posted by ares834
Honestly, freezing the bolt seems more impressive to me then redirecting several. But Ventress is probably the better fighter between the two (though Kylo likely has more raw power).


Not to me, as she would actually have to stop the bolts in their tracks before reaching her and then redirect it. She'd actually have to move the energy rather than putting a barrier.

Good grief guys, I'm too lazy. Give me a bit. If I don't find it today then I'll find it by tomorrow.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
^This is Ren's sole saving grace for now tbh

Stopping a blaster bolt with TK is hardly impressive

Either they're largely kinetic energy in how they dispense destruction... in which case any Jedi that can block them has the striking power to match said kinetic energy

Or?

They're largely not kinetic energy and halting the momentum of such a Force is unimpressive regardless

Nice reflexes, that's about all you get from this though Energy expended isn't everything though, I'd imagine it demanded a great deal of precision, and therefore concentration. The fact that Kylo is able to muster that to effect a target travelling at sublight speeds is very impresssive I feel.

Though to what extent he generated a general stasis field I can't say.

@S66, I edited the Ventress feat into my above post.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Energy expended isn't everything though, I'd imagine it demanded a great deal of precision, and therefore concentration. The fact that Kylo is able to muster to effect a target travelling at sublight speeds is very impresssive.

Precision is fun until you remember random Jedi Knights in the Legends EU are trained to TK shit as small as oxygen molecules one by one to fill a bottle as a training exercise

The Jedi Path ladies and gentlemen :lmao

Speed I'll grant you, but in terms of precision its even larger in size than a Force Choke's surface area of coverage

Mmm, fair enough.

However there is remains the fact he was able to maintain it without concentration or even proximity.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
^^Tbh

And in the novel Ren deflects Rey's lightsaber attacks with the Force:

"The weapon went flying into the snow. Unarmed, he raised a hand and utilized the Force to fend off one slashing blow after another, until finally her fury penetrated his remaining defenses."

Not sure what else.

EDIT: Found the DD feat:

With their master otherwise occupied on the other side of the bridge, the remaining droids opened fire freely. Dozens of bolts streaked toward Ventress and Kenobi. Calmly, Ventress batted back some with her lightsaber; the others she simply redirected using the Force. Three more droids fell, twitching and sparking.

Meh, sounds like she just deflected them with her hand/tutanimis.


Yeah, that's it.

I disagree. The writer made no mention of her hand as she did the lightsaber. Both techniques require some manipulation of the force, so why mention lightsaber but hand, if she was indeed using her hand? It seems she relied purely on the force for bolts she wouldn't have been capable of deflecting had they actually made contact.

Welcome back.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
^This is Ren's sole saving grace for now tbh

Stopping a blaster bolt with TK is hardly impressive

Either they're largely kinetic energy in how they dispense destruction... in which case any Jedi that can block them has the striking power to match said kinetic energy

Or?

They're largely not kinetic energy and halting the momentum of such a Force is unimpressive regardless

Nice reflexes, that's about all you get from this though

No. To all of this. If Kylo merely halted the blaster bolt with TK it wouldn't have proceeded to move again after he released it.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not to me, as she would actually have to stop the bolts in their tracks before reaching her and then redirect it. She'd actually have to move the energy rather than putting a barrier.

What?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Mmm, fair enough.

However there is remains the fact he was able to maintain it without concentration or even proximity.

The latter is fair enough too

The feat itself in terms of how impressive it is probably falls somewhere inbetween both of our initial interpretations at any rate

Originally posted by ares834
No. To all of this. If Kylo merely halted the blaster bolt with TK it wouldn't have proceeded to move again after he released it.


Oh

You're right

I was just ignoring that for the sake of even trying to label it at all

Unless the novel indicates he accelerates it again anyway

The sequence is ****ing nonsense though without such a stipulation barring some unhinted localized time stop

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, that's it.

I disagree. The writer made no mention of her hand as she did the lightsaber. Both techniques require some manipulation of the force, so why mention lightsaber but hand, if she was indeed using her hand? It seems she relied purely on the force for bolts she wouldn't have been capable of deflecting had they actually made contact. I suppose that's true, its just a rather rare ability she's never demonstrated before.

However I agree with Ares, tbh all that would be required here would be to exert enough telekinetic force on the bolt to throw it off course. She wouldn't have had to stop it in its tracks, and manually change its direction, just hit it essentially with the Force.

Originally posted by ChaosTheory123
The sequence is ****ing nonsense though without such a stipulation barring some unhinted localized time stop I think its the same technique he uses to paralyze Rey later in the film, which in the novel is described as actually freezing her muscles and slowing her breathing etc. seems Kylo can create some kind of energy field or effect that freezes matter...

Originally posted by Beniboybling


EDIT: Found the DD feat:

With their master otherwise occupied on the other side of the bridge, the remaining droids opened fire freely. Dozens of bolts streaked toward Ventress and Kenobi. Calmly, Ventress batted back some with her lightsaber; the others she simply redirected using the Force. Three more droids fell, twitching and sparking.

Meh, sounds like she just deflected them with her hand/tutanimis.


Interesting..

Thank you, Skillz. How much did you miss me?


Originally posted by ares834
What?


It shouldn't be any different than Yoda stopping objects thrown at him by Sidious or Dooku before redirected elsewhere.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
However I agree with Ares, tbh all that would be required here would be to exert enough telekinetic force on the bolt to throw it off course. She wouldn't have had to stop it in its tracks, and manually change its direction, just hit it essentially with the Force.


Yeah, that could be it. I just got the 'magneto redirecting bullets vibe' when I first read it. Plus that, she is a master level in an era far more advanced in regards to force usage. I mean, we can assume that wouldn't apply to Kylo since he is being trained by someone who comes from less primitive era (again, in regards to the force), but then again Kylo wasn't even shown doing basic force physicality, other than speed, that would even put him on someone such as the 7th sisters level, but then we see him doing force stunts that seem pretty advanced. I know that being a Skywalker, he's stronger than most, but that wasn't a showing of sheer raw power, but rather a showing of refinement as you said, which isn't what I got from his character.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I think its the same technique he uses to paralyze Rey later in the film, which in the novel is described as actually freezing her muscles and slowing her breathing etc. seems Kylo can create some kind of energy field or effect that freezes matter...


Ah, I missed this post. Perhaps he is more refined than depicted in the movie, as he seems to lack control over himself (even his lightsaber is falling apart lol jk). Maybe I should just read the novel then.

Then again, she isn't trained, so complete control over her body shouldn't be difficult.

BTW, sorry for the triple posts.

Tbh that blaster feat, should logically be able to be replicated by any sufficiently powerful Force User. I mean Kylo did it and he hasn't even finished training yet and as far as his training goes....we don't even know what he has to work with as far as resources, or what even Snoke is capable of, how he was trained or whatever.

So it seems to me like it could be replicated, speculation sure. But I mean it just seems rather illogical to do so in a battle scenario, as you'll then have all these frozen blaster shots doing well nothing.

Force absorption seems better for actual use, as you could deflect or absorb the energy, lightsabers the same way and deflecting the bolts.

Holding a blaster shot mid-air, is great...but there's no real reason to do so when you have different methods of dealing with a blaster shot, which would be greater in the long run.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Thank you, Skillz. How much did you miss me?

Quite a bit, considering Temp died.

Ventress getting cred? :')

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

It shouldn't be any different than Yoda stopping objects thrown at him by Sidious or Dooku before redirected elsewhere.



Don't forget Yoda paralyzing Ventress is far far far more impressive than Kylo doing the same thing to Poe or Rey.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, that could be it. I just got the 'magneto redirecting bullets vibe' when I first read it. Plus that, she is a master level in an era far more advanced in regards to force usage. I mean, we can assume that wouldn't apply to Kylo since he is being trained by someone who comes from less primitive era (again, in regards to the force), but then again Kylo wasn't even shown doing basic force physicality, other than speed, that would even put him on someone such as the 7th sisters level, but then we see him doing force stunts that seem pretty advanced. I know that being a Skywalker, he's stronger than most, but that wasn't a showing of sheer raw power, but rather a showing of refinement as you said, which isn't what I got from his character. Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Ah, I missed this post. Perhaps he is more refined than depicted in the movie, as he seems to lack control over himself (even his lightsaber is falling apart lol jk). Maybe I should just read the novel then.

Then again, she isn't trained, so complete control over her body shouldn't be difficult.

BTW, sorry for the triple posts. Well he has other impressive powers in the movie like being able to telepathically read not just surface thoughts but deeply private ones, and he was able to render Rey unconscious with a gesture.

I was given the impression he was quite masterful in the Force, just emotionally conflicted and far from having achieved his full potential.

^ Windu puts Rako Hardeem to sleep with a gesture in TCW.

And Vader read Lukes thoughts about his sister in ROTJ. Though that ability seemed inconsistent for Vader.

Perhaps Snokes training teaches Ren different ways of using the Force.

And both Windu and Vader are highly masterful in the Force, no?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And both Windu and Vader are highly masterful in the Force, no?
Nah. Straight fodder.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And both Windu and Vader are highly masterful in the Force, no?


Of course. Just pointing out, we have seen these things before (or similar). But you're right mainly only from the elite.

I didn't read the TFA novelization. I just didn't see the need to. I'm more upset that so far, only 2 adult Star Wars novels are planned for 2016

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well he has other impressive powers in the movie like being able to telepathically read not just surface thoughts but deeply private ones, and he was able to render Rey unconscious with a gesture.

I was given the impression he was quite masterful in the Force, just emotionally conflicted and far from having achieved his full potential.


Perhaps I was expecting far more and kind of disappointed myself. I'm not denying he's quite powerful. However, just from what was shown in the movie, he didn't strike me as being any more than Vader's inquisitors, all of which have been quite impressive to me as far as feats and abilities, but with powerscaling being more of a thing now and with several sources implying they're not even on par with a jedi master, in my eyes it kind of diminishes Kylo's ranking compared to others as of now.

Also, I was thinking about your interpretation on Ventress's feat in DD, and it would seem that if she used a push powerful enough to throw bolts traveling at such speed off course, then would that not have leveled the droids, considering the kinetic energy they produce? But I'm no physics expert, not even close, so I could be wrong. Like I said though, I just got the impression that she manipulated them directly and redirected them in the same fashion Magneto did to bullets in the X-Men movies, and it seemed as if the writer wanted the reader to visualize just that, so when I saw Kylo stop the blaster bolt with the force, I immediately thought of that part in Dark Disciple.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Quite a bit, considering Temp died.


What happened to my Kentuckian brother?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Perhaps I was expecting far more and kind of disappointed myself. I'm not denying he's quite powerful. However, just from what was shown in the movie, he didn't strike me as being any more than Vader's inquisitors, all of which have been quite impressive to me as far as feats and abilities, but with powerscaling being more of a thing now and with several sources implying they're not even on par with a jedi master, in my eyes it kind of diminishes Kylo's ranking compared to others as of now.I don't know, I think there was something about the level of ease at which he TK'ed and paralysed people, stopped an energy bolt in it's tracks and read people's innermost thoughts that struck me as impressive. Though I was never that impressed by the Inquisitors.

Though with such a lack of showings it has a lot to do with presence and your impression of that.Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Also, I was thinking about your interpretation on Ventress's feat in DD, and it would seem that if she used a push powerful enough to throw bolts traveling at such speed off course, then would that not have leveled the droids, considering the kinetic energy they produce? But I'm no physics expert, not even close, so I could be wrong. Like I said though, I just got the impression that she manipulated them directly and redirected them in the same fashion Magneto did to bullets in the X-Men movies, and it seemed as if the writer wanted the reader to visualize just that, so when I saw Kylo stop the blaster bolt with the force, I immediately thought of that part in Dark Disciple. Hmm fair point, however as practically weightless matter I'm not sure much kinetic force would be required to throw them off course, she could also have concentrated her energies on the bolts.

Regardless though it would only have required temporary exertion, and granted temporary control, whereas Kylo's manipulation was sustained.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What happened to my Kentuckian brother?

He disappeared into this thing he seems to call, "a life." Not sure what it is, myself.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I don't know, I think there was something about the level of ease at which he TK'ed and paralysed people, stopped an energy bolt in it's tracks and read people's innermost thoughts that struck me as impressive. Though I was never that impressed by the Inquisitors.

Though with such a lack of showings it has a lot to do with presence and your impression of that.



Hmm fair point, however as practically weightless matter I'm not sure much kinetic force would be required to throw them off course, she could also have concentrated her energies on the bolts.

Regardless though it would only have required temporary exertion, and granted temporary control, whereas Kylo's manipulation was sustained.


1) I don't imagine that paralyzing non force users or untrained ones should be difficult for any inquisitor we've seen so far. The 7th sister, for example, held off a multi ton shuttle while simultaneously closing off a huge ship entrance until the ship picked up speed, though it was only very brief without the 5th bother's help. The fact that she was able to multitask with heavy machinery would indicate refinement (and raw power we've yet to see from Kylo). As for pulling secrets from the minds of others, Inquisitors are trained to do that. In fact, The Grand Inquisitor very well may have been able to distract info from the mind of Kanan had Hera not left the larger rebellion a secret from him, whereas Kylo's thought pulling was reversed back on him. In fact, The Grand Inquisitor's reaction at being unable to get any info from Kanan, IMO, was an indication that he has forcefully ripped thoughts from the minds of trained force users.

Also, Vos mused that by using the dark side a force user's influence over others was, what, 100 times greater than a jedi mind trick, which would indicate near mental domination. True, they were using creatures on Dathomir (including the Sleeper, which was said to have had a strong will, BTW), but his musings were about jedi mind tricks vs what the dark side can grant him, IIRC. So with that in mind, it should be no big deal for Kylo to use the force in such ways.

BTW, Kylo has had just as much screen time as any one inquisitor, with us seeing him in more situations to use mind powers.

2) No, I was referring to a blaster bolts kinetic force being that they are concentrated beams of high energy. Even the more powerful ones from a freighter had Vader taking steps back in Lords of the Sith. Blaster bolts make their way through thick dust storms and water just as easily as they do air, so it would seem that a force push powerful enough to knock them off course would have leveled the droids.

3) If Ventress did directly manipulate the bolts in order to redirect them, that would be a higher degree of manipulation, not to mention she was doing it in the midst of dealing with dozens. And with it being done so casually by her, I don't see how sustaining just one would be difficult.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He disappeared into this thing he seems to call, "a life." Not sure what it is, myself.


Life can either take you away from here or bring you here. KMC is my get away from reality as of now. Tomorrow it might be KFC.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
1) I don't imagine that paralyzing non force users or untrained ones should be difficult for any inquisitor we've seen so far. The 7th sister, for example, held off a multi ton shuttle while simultaneously closing off a huge ship entrance until the ship picked up speed, though it was only very brief without the 5th bother's help. The fact that she was able to multitask with heavy machinery would indicate refinement (and raw power we've yet to see from Kylo). As for pulling secrets from the minds of others, Inquisitors are trained to do that. In fact, The Grand Inquisitor very well may have been able to distract info from the mind of Kanan had Hera not left the larger rebellion a secret from him, whereas Kylo's thought pulling was reversed back on him. In fact, The Grand Inquisitor's reaction at being unable to get any info from Kanan, IMO, was an indication that he has forcefully ripped thoughts from the minds of trained force users.

Also, Vos mused that by using the dark side a force user's influence over others was, what, 100 times greater than a jedi mind trick, which would indicate near mental domination. True, they were using creatures on Dathomir (including the Sleeper, which was said to have had a strong will, BTW), but his musings were about jedi mind tricks vs what the dark side can grant him, IIRC. So with that in mind, it should be no big deal for Kylo to use the force in such ways.

BTW, Kylo has had just as much screen time as any one inquisitor, with us seeing him in more situations to use mind powers.

2) No, I was referring to a blaster bolts kinetic force being that they are concentrated beams of high energy. Even the more powerful ones from a freighter had Vader taking steps back in Lords of the Sith. Blaster bolts make their way through thick dust storms and water just as easily as they do air, so it would seem that a force push powerful enough to knock them off course would have leveled the droids.

3) If Ventress did directly manipulate the bolts in order to redirect them, that would be a higher degree of manipulation, not to mention she was doing it in the midst of dealing with dozens. And with it being done so casually by her, I don't see how sustaining just one would be difficult.


*Detract

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Life can either take you away from here or bring you here. KMC is my get away from reality as of now. Tomorrow it might be KFC.
That's poetic as **** tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That's poetic as **** tbh.


Lol

Why KFC you ****ing racist?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well he has other impressive powers in the movie like being able to telepathically read not just surface thoughts but deeply private ones, and he was able to render Rey unconscious with a gesture.
When he would be able to do that to a fully-trained Jedi, let me know.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I was given the impression he was quite masterful in the Force, just emotionally conflicted and far from having achieved his full potential.
No.

Dominating virtually defenseless individuals is not impressive in my books. He still has a long way to go.

Check the showings of Satele Shan and Darth Malgus in the Hope cinematic and compare them with the showings of Kylo Ren and Rey in a battle; you will clearly notice a massive gap in the capabilities of both camps as of Episode 7.

^ Which is probably why none of that's canon.


Originally posted by carthage
Why KFC you ****ing racist?

Because he's black

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
When he would be able to do that to a fully-trained Jedi, let me know.

No.

Dominating virtually defenseless individuals is not impressive in my books. He still has a long way to go.

Check the showings of Satele Shan and Darth Malgus in the Hope cinematic and compare them with the showings of Kylo Ren and Rey in a battle; you will clearly notice a massive gap in the capabilities of both camps as of Episode 7. Lol Legends is irrelevant when assessing the impression of Canon character, who relative to Canon showings comes across as quite impressive.

That said I'm failing to see why he has to be Shan or Malgus level to be considered masterful in the Force.

Perhaps LeGenD has finally come around to admitting those two are trash tier?