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http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w344/riv6672/8af397d2-7772-44d8-86af-f4adbb0eba89_zps31d2b5f8.jpg

No prep. No BFR.
Start point NYC rooftop.

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w344/riv6672/image_zpsa2ozbpi6.jpg

Snow stomps

Hmm. Well, no one's disputed you. Didnt think it was that easy to have Spidey's number. Thanks.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Snow stomps

spidey would web him, snow would freeze it, spidey would hit him once and it would be all over.

Or Snow just freezes his brain.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528410-1.png

You're saying Batman has Spider-man level durability?
I know you like listing his gear, but this is new!

meh, there's distance involved with his powers. i'd have to look back at planetary. snow has some good feats--he could def freeze spidey and kill him if he had the chance. spidey would def take some though.

How fast is Snow's reaction be hit Spider-Man before he hits you takes some speed

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, there's distance involved with his powers. i'd have to look back at planetary. snow has some good feats--he could def freeze spidey and kill him if he had the chance. spidey would def take some though.
I was involved in a thread about exaggerated powers recently. Snow was pointed out. Seems people think he has 0 limits/isnt a glass cannon.
Anyhow, there seems to be no middle ground here except for you. Thats pretty interesting.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, there's distance involved with his powers. i'd have to look back at planetary. snow has some good feats--he could def freeze spidey and kill him if he had the chance. spidey would def take some though.

*Cracks knuckles*. Let's go.

Here, he flash freezes an entire street in...seconds? Moments? Either way, it was in the space of a singe panel:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528096-1.png

Distance? He froze sections of a field, large enough to be seen from space (with zero to no strain):
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528345-1.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528348-2.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528349-3.png

Speed? He freezes Dracula in mid air as he's leaping for him:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528390-1.png
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2528392-2.png

Over 500m (KMC standard)., Spidey ain't crossing that distance before Snow freezes him. He could do it lethally, or do a brain freeze.

@riv: yes, I am saying Spidey's internal brain durability is Batman level. Based on their performance against bullets, I am saying it's even arguable that they have the same external durability.

FWIW, that's one of the tougher incarnations of Batman, too.

The distance favors Elijah way too much.

Nah.
Batman in full gear cant take the punishment Spidey can wearing a body stocking, sorry.
Thanks for the scans, though. As usual you make a great case for your point!
I'm glad you sparked a conversation here.

Originally posted by riv6672
Nah.
Batman in full gear cant take the punishment Spidey can wearing a body stocking, sorry.
Thanks for the scans, though. As usual you make a great case for your point!
I'm glad you sparked a conversation here.

Hence, basing it purely on bullet performance. Batman has taken shots better than Spiderman has (who usually dances out of the way of them).

Internal durability, I am open to seeing proof of his internal durability being able to stand up to Bats, and more importantly, how it stacks against brain freezes?

Does Elijah get access to all his characters powers at once or just a couple? Guy played Hank Henshaw, combine that with the ring and it's lights out for piderman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Over 500m (KMC standard)., Spidey ain't crossing that distance before Snow freezes him. He could do it lethally, or do a brain freeze. You're stretching Elijah's powers a bit, imo.

Sure, he could freeze the battlefield before Spidey reached him, but I don't recall Elijah ever using heat subtraction on a person that wasn't literally right next to him(if I am wrong here, please correct me.) For that reason, I don't see him inextricably freezing Spidey from 500m out.

That being said, Elijah has never faced an opponent remotely as fast as Spidey. If we're using the comic you selected some of your scans from, then Elijah couldn't even avoid/freeze Batarangs from close distance:
http://i.imgur.com/Dl9sNIb.jpg
So it's hard to see him avoiding/freezing a much faster onslaught from Spidey. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
You're stretching Elijah's powers a bit, imo.

Sure, he could freeze the battlefield before Spidey reached him, but I don't recall Elijah ever using heat subtraction on a person that wasn't literally right next to him(if I am wrong here, please correct me.) For that reason, I don't see him inextricably freezing Spidey's brain from 500m out.

That being said, Elijah has never faced an opponent remotely as fast as Spidey. If we're using the comic you selected some of your scans from, then Elijah couldn't even avoid/freeze Batarangs:
http://i.imgur.com/Dl9sNIb.jpg
So it's hard to see him avoiding/freezing a much faster onslaught from Spidey.

He used it against Dracula, who was leaping at him (but not right next to him).

I'm not saying the bell rings, and he freezes him out. I'm saying that the closer Spidey gets to him, the easier it is to freeze him.

500m, kinda negates Spidey's speed advantage. If he closes the distance, Elijah can freeze him.

He COULD try keeping his distance, but based on Snow's range (which has been > 500m), and the lack of info, kinda makes it hard for Spidey.

Elijah freezing Dracula as he was leaping toward him is pretty much your best piece of evidence... But a featless/random version of Dracula =/= Spidey. All that tells us is that he can freeze Spidey IF he gets the chance.

But again, Elijah couldn't avoid Batarangs at close distance, so we know his perception/reaction speeds are certainly not meta-class by any means... Spidey's obviously are.

Point being: this is definitely NOT a clear-cut win for Elijah.

Originally posted by Galan007
Elijah freezing Dracula as he was leaping toward him is pretty much your best piece of evidence... But a featless/random version of Dracula =/= Spidey. All that tells us is that he can freeze Spidey IF he gets the chance.

But again, Elijah couldn't avoid Batarangs at close distance, so we know his perception/reaction speeds are certainly not meta-class by any means... Spidey's obviously are.

Point being: this is definitely NOT a clear-cut win for Elijah.

Batarangs also don't possess heat to suck AFAIK, he's not like Iceman, able to throw up ice shields, right?

And to borrow h1's analogy (god, I h8 myself right now), having something from far away move at speed towards you is vastly different from having it move at the same speed in front of your face.

Baseball players react to balls thrown at 90mph from ~60m. I can react to a car barreling towards me at 200mph from 500m (that's ~90metres/s, so I have ~5seconds to leap).

But I can't react to a fist thrown at 25mph, if it's right next to me.

So, battle starts at 500m - I really haven't seen any speed feats of Spidey to suggest he can make up that distance before Elijah can get the chance to freeze.

Snow has the range (the '4' on the field). He has the speed (the entire street in a single panel, in 3 dimensions). Spidey leaping towards him would only make it easier, no?

Spidey COULD keep the distance, and web. But that sacrifices his speed advantage, and again, sniping from 500m gives Snow ample chance to dodge.

The fact that Elijah couldn't avoid the Batarangs simply tells us that he only possesses human-ish perception/reaction speed(for a point of comparison, Jakita dodged them casually.) That's pretty important when he's facing an opponent as fast as Spidey.

Elijah freezing the battlefield is cool and all, but it wouldn't really hinder Spidey, so it's a moot tactic. Imo.

The point is that Elijah has never used heat reduction to freeze someone who wasn't within a few feet of him(again, if I'm not remembering a specific feat please show me.) This is important because if he has to wait until Spidey gets that close before he tries offensively freezing him, then it comes down to whether or not he can react/freeze Spidey before Spidey bludgeons/webs the shit out of him. Essentially: human perception/reaction vs. meta perception/reaction.

Not saying Elijah can't win, but it's certainly not a clear-cut case, imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
The fact that Elijah couldn't avoid the Batarangs simply tells us that he only possesses human-ish perception/reaction speed(for a point of comparison, Jakita dodged them casually.) That's pretty important when he's facing an opponent as fast as Spidey.

Elijah freezing the battlefield is cool and all, but it wouldn't really hinder Spidey, so it's a moot tactic. Imo.

The point is that Elijah has never used heat reduction to freeze someone who wasn't within a few feet of him(again, if I'm not remembering a specific feat please show me.) This is important because if he has to wait until Spidey gets that close before he tries offensively freezing him, then it comes down to whether or not he can react/freeze Spidey before Spidey bludgeons/webs the shit out of him. Essentially: human perception/reaction vs. meta perception/reaction.

Not saying Elijah can't win, but it's certainly not a clear-cut case, imo.

Agreed - but again, over 500m means that Spidey's speed is largely negated.

Elijah could freeze over massive areas - a small focussed area like Spidey's brain is much easier (which was the point I was going for).

This is IF Elijah doesn't just go for the lethal option from the get go. Or freeze his piss...

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/10/103530/2538298-1.png

A bit further than Dracula, here. I honestly don't see why , if he is able to freeze an area the size of an entire street in a single panel, or over a giant field, why Spidey's fluids at 400m (or whatever it is the distance that Spidey will cover in the first few seconds) would pose any problem.

Over a shorter distance, then yes, sure, Spidey outspeeds him. But carrying all that web-FLUID (which becomes solid at room temperature and pressure)? over THAT distance? When he still has internals to attack? It's really Elijah's fight to lose.

You'd better watch those assumptions. I've seen you get on carver's case for a lot less.

But seriously, if he's never specifically targeted and frozen someone from a considerable distance, then I'm not just going to assume he will inextricably start doing so here. Freezing the field is entirely different, and certainly does not imply that he can freeze a target at a distance. When he does this he is generating the cold from his person, and allowing it to spread outward from him. It's not like he generates ice at the furthest point away, and brings it in closer to him. The scans you posted earlier depict this perfectly:
http://s17.postimg.org/9eqwuy1zj/2528345_1.png

So yeah...

As it stands, all of the human targets Elijah's frozen have been a maximum of like 10 feet away... And excluding Dracula(who was still leaping in a straight line toward him), they've all be stagnant targets that were not hopping all over the place at rather uber speeds like Spidey would be.

But anyway, I'm just saying that Elijah's chances aren't the best if he has to wait until Spidey gets within 10 feet before he can even try to freeze him. Once more: Elijah's perception/reaction speeds are human--Spidey's are well above that.

I agree with Galan here. Farttaint is a lot worse than Carver. He learned, assimilated, and upgraded. CarveSaint9.0

Originally posted by carver9
3 upgrades.

I want to add that it is very difficult freezing a moving object that you can't perceive. If spidey is hopping around very fast with unpredictable motion then it is extremely hard for Snow to get a lock on the target (especially if he can't even see Spidey) Spidey can close the distance without even getting froze.

Originally posted by h1a8
I want to add that it is very difficult freezing a moving object that you can't perceive. If spidey is hopping around very fast with unpredictable motion then it is extremely hard for Snow to get a lock on the target (especially if he can't even see Spidey) Spidey can close the distance without even getting froze.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/110794/2082041-1837933_spiderman_vs_absorbing_man_super.jpg

If he has human reactions and both have basic knowledge of each other, Spiderman slaughters him.

Once the Triumvirate of Carver, H1, and Galan agree on something, you know it becomes forum law at that point.

Better luck next time CarveSaint

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Lloyd-Christmas-Happy-to-Sad.gif

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Once the Triumvirate of Carver, H1, and Galan agree on something, you know it becomes forum law at that point.

Better luck next time CarveSaint



Why me? I will never get it.

And that, carver, is why you fail.

Galan is filled with doubt now, I'm sure

You have no idea...

well, yeah, pretty much just gonna move on how. f***in galan is such a forum diva....

Originally posted by carver9


Why me? I will never get it.

You

D2aj3jRPWzY

Originally posted by carver9
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/110794/2082041-1837933_spiderman_vs_absorbing_man_super.jpg

If he has human reactions and both have basic knowledge of each other, Spiderman slaughters him.

Didn't he allow that to happen?

Lol didn't see carvers' post...

Basic knowledge...of Planetary????? Good luck, Carver lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol didn't see carvers' post...

Basic knowledge...of Planetary????? Good luck, Carver lol.

Isnt basic knowledge a forum thing though? I still dont get that stip...is it basic knowledge like what the populace of dc knows or we the reader

The population.

So when you face Superman, you know he's weak to Kryptonite. But not that he's Clark Kent (pre boot, lol).

This was a great read, until the basic knowledge riff. That seems to get used very inconsistently here, to suit whatever argument is being made.
I think based on everything else, this was presented as a pretty even fight, so thanks.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
I agree with Galan here. Farttaint is a lot worse than Carver. He learned, assimilated, and upgraded. CarveSaint9.0

Originally posted by riv6672
This was a great read, until the basic knowledge riff. That seems to get used very inconsistently here, to suit whatever argument is being made.
I think based on everything else, this was presented as a pretty even fight, so thanks.

Its consistently applied, but characters vary in their public exposure.

Zatanna is seen as a stage magician. The entirety of Marvel earth knows of the Hulk.

Agree to disagree.
Like i said, great read. Its all i ever really want out of a thread, whether i start it ir not.

Not sure what there is to disagree about?

I mean, even Elijah didn't know much about his own history until the story progressed.

Spiderman has his own press agent, basically. Forum rules are pretty clear on what basic knowledge is - and I guess people have a hard time understanding it....

No, i understand it, i just see it used badly. Everything else you guys were throwing at each other was like high caliber munitions, though!
Hell, my only gripe was durability, as i'm pretty sure Snow could gets wins on Spidey, as was pointed out.

Where basic knowledge is concerned, the most Spidey could hope to know about Elijah going into the battle is that he's a human who can freeze shit.

Originally posted by riv6672
This was a great read, until the basic knowledge riff. That seems to get used very inconsistently here, to suit whatever argument is being made.
I think based on everything else, this was presented as a pretty even fight, so thanks.

U mad?

Nope, quite the opposite. A non Superman thread doing well is a good thing!

Dont know Snows range or if his powers works as soon as he thinks it. If they dont need time for them to take effect, then he wins easily.