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Predator loses. There's no way it can track a tiny Ant-Man, who hits pretty damn hard. Plus he could just shrink Predator down and then make himself grow. Fight is immeidately over.

Ant could shrink other people?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Ant could shrink other people?

He's got shrink/grow devices that he can stick on you. It's how he made that ant giant and Thomas the Train Engine bigger than an actual train.

Oh yea

So he could just shrink Predator to the microverse and leave him there. Or he could turn small and punch a joint till it breaks. He's got a lot more options and he only has to stay small and Predator won't even be able to see him much less hit him. And going by his fight with Falcon, he has no problem using his suit to it's full advantage even when he's holding back.

I for one do think the Predator can track Ant-Man. But without prior knowledge, I doubt he would look for a small adversary when he seemingly disappeared. Pred would probably think Ant-Man was using cloaking tech and as it was cycling thru all the different vision modes AM would beat that ass

Originally posted by juggerman
I for one do think the Predator can track Ant-Man. But without prior knowledge, I doubt he would look for a small adversary when he seemingly disappeared. Pred would probably think Ant-Man was using cloaking tech and as it was cycling thru all the different vision modes AM would beat that ass

Track him with what?

None of his vision modes can spot him when he's small. Not that he'd even know where to look. Falcon knew what was going on and had tech designed to find him and still had trouble.

Originally posted by KingD19
Track him with what?

None of his vision modes can spot him when he's small. Not that he'd even know where to look. Falcon knew what was going on and had tech designed to find him and still had trouble.

The many vision modes, the ability to track foes at great distances, and the ability to pick out a freaking heartbeat make me think that if the Pred knew it was looking for a tiny man, it could indeed find it similar to how Falcon did. The issue here is that I don't think the Pred would know Ant-Man was tiny in the first place

Binocular doesn't = microscope. And picking out a human sized heartbeat is not = picking out the heartbeat of a human roughly the size of an ant, if not even smaller.

Falcon only found him because his goggles let him lock onto his tech and see him when he was small. He had an exact counter to Ant-Man.

Pred won't have that luxury and gets shrunk to nothingness.

Originally posted by KingD19
Binocular doesn't = microscope. And picking out a human sized heartbeat is not = picking out the heartbeat of a human roughly the size of an ant, if not even smaller.

Falcon only found him because his goggles let him lock onto his tech and see him when he was small. He had an exact counter to Ant-Man.

Pred won't have that luxury and gets shrunk to nothingness.

Ant Man sin't microscopic. Remember his Spanish friend saw him on his shoulder.

Again I don't think Pred would win here. I just think Pred could see him but only if it knew it was looking for a small person.

is this thread actually happening.. thanks for the laughs ....

Ant Man takes care of business

Originally posted by juggerman
Ant Man sin't microscopic. Remember his Spanish friend saw him on his shoulder.

Again I don't think Pred would win here. I just think Pred could see him but only if it knew it was looking for a small person.

What feats does the Predator have for targeting something that small?

Originally posted by Silent Master
What feats does the Predator have for targeting something that small?

None but neither does Thor. Would you argue Thor couldn't see him when Ant Man's buddy did?

So no feats, thank you for answering.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So no feats, thank you for answering.

Well unlike you I do answer direct questions

You didn't ask me a thread related question.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You didn't ask me a thread related question.

Thread related question: Would you need a "seeing something a little bigger than an insect" feat from anyone or is this Predator specific?

Nevermind. Here's proof Perdator can indeed see insect sized beings:

ubjvigZCdH4

Originally posted by juggerman
Thread related question: Would you need a "seeing something a little bigger than an insect" feat from anyone or is this Predator specific?

Given that his thermal imaging has proven inferior to regular vision, it's a Predator specific request.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Given that his thermal imaging has proven inferior to regular vision, it's a Predator specific request.

It has proven better than normal vision as well and it is more than just thermal vision.

It's demonstratively worse at picking up details and easy to fool.

Again it's more than just thermal vision. Pred cycles thru many different views. It also has been shown several times to easily pick up on things the human eye can't or has trouble like traps and cloaked Preds

But that's all pretty moot at this point since I've given proof Predator would indeed be able to see tiny Ant Man

Yes, you've shown that the Predator can track a large scorpion as long as it doesn't move.

Ant-man ftw.

Scorpion would be about the size of Ant Man. If you have any evidence movement would be an issue feel free to post it

Originally posted by juggerman
Scorpion would be about the size of Ant Man. If you have any evidence movement would be an issue feel free to post it

You need proof that movement makes tracking more difficult?

Movement has never proved an issue for a Predator in the past. If you are saying it would be now you would need to back it up

Originally posted by juggerman
Movement has never proved an issue for a Predator in the past. If you are saying it would be now you would need to back it up

Nice try, but all the things that the Predator has tracked while moving have also been dozens if not hundreds of times larger than Ant-man and thus easier to keep track of.

Predator can increase the "zoom" on his scan meaning Ant Man would seem no smaller than anything else it's tracked. So again if you believe movement would suddenly become an issue for Pred, please provide any evidence at all supporting it

Increasing the zoom decreases the area he can see, making movement that much harder to compensate for.

On a larger target sure. Not the case here

Yes. It is the case here.

It's been proven his size makes no difference to the Predator in terms of actually spotting him. There's nothing that shows Predator would have any issues keeping him in sight so long as Ant Man wasn't right up under it or climbing on the Pred like he was Falcon.

Nice try, but it'd be more accurate to say that there is nothing showing that the Predator can keep a fast moving small object in sight.

Wrong again. Can't find the clip on youtube but in the first film during the final fight we see Arnold throw a rock to distract the Predator. Not only is the rock small AND fast moving, but it also has no heat signature. This all makes tracking it much harder yet it still is able to pick it up on it's sensor, lock on to it and fire(I don't remember it if hit it or not).

So there is quite a bit showing Predator can track Ant Man.

As Juggerman did correctly point out though, regardless of whether the Pred could potentially track Ant-man to any useful degree, it makes no real difference. Scott beats his ass.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
As Juggerman did correctly point out though, regardless of whether the Pred could potentially track Ant-man to any useful degree, it makes no real difference. Scott beats his ass.

I think the Pred could see him, but hitting him with that cannon from distance would be difficult. Remember that Scott will have a bit of an issue seeing the Predator as well if it's in camo mode. Also he never managed to KO (or even stun) Falcon who doesn't have close to the Pred's strength or durability.

He wasn't trying to hurt Falcon. He was mostly trying to get past him and away from him, and resorted to screwing with Falcon's gear when he saw that it wasn't going to happen. Remember, he still specifically had to train to know just how hard to hit, because he was told that if he hit too softly it would have no effect, but if he hit too hard (because of all that mass and power focused into such a tiny being) he could actually kill someone.

True but Predators are much more durable than humans. The one in Predator 2 took several shotgun blasts at close range was was only KO'd briefly. I've even heard speculation it was faking being KO'd but I'm not sure I buy that. In either case I'm not sure Ant Man's hits were shotgun level

And shrinking it might do more harm than good. If Ant Man shrinks it and then tries to step on it, what's stopping it from plasma blasting thru AM's foot?

Originally posted by juggerman
True but Predators are much more durable than humans. The one in Predator 2 took several shotgun blasts at close range was was only KO'd briefly. I've even heard speculation it was faking being KO'd but I'm not sure I buy that. In either case I'm not sure Ant Man's hits were shotgun level

Yeah, but the point was that using the fight with Falcon as a measuring stick is not the best example, considering we are explicitly told that he would kill regular people if he didn't pull his punches somewhat.

Ah gotcha

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Yeah, but the point was that using the fight with Falcon as a measuring stick is not the best example, considering we are explicitly told that he would kill regular people if he didn't pull his punches somewhat.

Well, they say that his punches could basically hit with the force of a bullet.... but at the same time his hand isn't going to travel any farther than the length of his tiny arm, so it wouldn't penetrate like a bullet. I guess if he hit bone he could crack it, but if he hit muscle/fat it wouldn't be too damaging.

Good point. I might just be changing my answer. Ant Man would have a very difficult finding a cloaked Predator. His punches aren't enough to fell one imo and shrinking one would be a terrible idea.

Predators rech alone should be far more advanced then the ant man tech. In the first Predator movie he was fast specially for being 7 foot or more

That's a point I made in another thread. A cloaked Predator is fast and sneaky as hell. For some reason when they uncloak they are slow, lumbering and shake the ground and shit. It's nuts

Originally posted by Scoobless
Well, they say that his punches could basically hit with the force of a bullet.... but at the same time his hand isn't going to travel any farther than the length of his tiny arm, so it wouldn't penetrate like a bullet. I guess if he hit bone he could crack it, but if he hit muscle/fat it wouldn't be too damaging.

Not actually. They say he is "like a bullet" in the sense that a comparatively small amount of energy and force does a lot more damage, because of his tiny size. Why else would they go on to specifically say that he would kill someone if he hit too hard? They don't say he could break someone's bones. They specifically say kill.

Humans have given predators issues in H2H/melee before, and none of them had the capabilities Ant-Man does. Also, it's not like tagging a tiny Ant-man is going to be an easy feat for the Predator. Also, is there any proof that a Predator's tech is immune to tampering? Admittedly, a cloaked Predator could be hard for him to detect initially, but if the Predator loses its stealth advantage I don't see it taking down Scott.

Two have Hartigan killed a one armed Predator and the guy from last movie but they are far stronger and more durable then a man .Predators give humans a sporting chance.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Humans have given predators issues in H2H

Nope

I'm not saying a normal human has any chance of beating one. But exceptional ones don't just get killed instantly. Dutch was getting his ass kicked, but he didn't just get killed immediately, and got a shot or two in. I'd regard Ant-Man as more formidable, based on feats, than anything we have seen a Predator hunt on screen. Remember, he himself easily steamrolled through groups of opponents, and defeated the Falcon, despite not trying to actually hurt him.

Beyond the abilities the Ant-Man suit gives Scott, he was already highly agile and skilled at acrobatics, as well as adaptable and intelligent. He's also a highly skilled fighter. Ant-Man also handled Yellowjacket's weapons just fine, and he had a much greater rate of fire than a Predator does IIRC. Other than the stealth, I just don't see anything for Lang to seriously worry about, and he himself would probably remain in tiny mode until he had a handle on what he was dealing with.

Predator could have killed Dutch instantly had it wanted to. It let the fight drag out and allowed Dutch to mount some semblance of an offensive. Nothing he did or could do affected the Pred in the slightest.

The Predator normally goes for the instant kill when the target poses even a minimal threat. And it normally doesn't rush a confrontation either. It typically hangs back cloaked to study the prey. It would likely know more about Lang than Lang could figure out about it

He had no problem shrinking Yellow Jacket to infinity. He'll have no problem killing the Predator. He could shrink him, hit him while small, or turn himself into a giant and just step on him. Or turn the Predator small and step on him.

That was due to messing with YJ's tech iirc. Ant Man can't just do that to anyone.

And turning Predator small is a bad way to go. 1. Predator cloaked at normal height is hard to spot. It invisible and tiny would be nigh impossible to see. 2. Even small, the Predator's tech would still work. Meaning it could blast Ant Man with the plasma blasts just as easily. Hell even easier due to Ant Man being a much bigger target

Why are you acting like it'd be such an "easy" thing to tag Scott when, based on feats, targeting and successfully hitting him with ranged weapons has been extremely difficult for everyone who has attempted it? And Lang is hardly just some idiot. He is extremely good at using his intelligence to take stock of the situation, improvise and adapt. So, as pointed out, he'd likely not choose to engage an enemy if he didn't at least have some idea how to engage it either, or where it was for that matter. Scott isn't going to just stand around full sized and wait for the Predator to attack and shoot him. That goes against pretty much everything we have seen of the character so far. Also, being suddenly shrunk to a 100th of its original size is more than likely going to throw off a Predator for at least a moment, regardless of whether its tech still works or not.

But hey, if you believe the Predator pulls off a win then nothing wrong with that. We just disagree on the matter, because I don't believe that the Predator would beat Scott. I believe that Scott's displayed powers/abilities, coupled with the level of intelligence and adaptability he has shown, would allow him to formulate and execute a plan to defeat the Predator. Admittedly, it would help if we had more clear match stipulations. Depending on the environment, starting distance etc. it could massively tip the favour of the fight to either side.

Not saying the Predator would win, but from what I remember it has access to heat/infrared/ultraviolet vision, as well as motion sensing with lock-on capability. While the Predator would initially be at a disadvantage not knowing to look for an enemy that small, Scott might be overconfident if he relies purely on his size to remain out of sight.

Still give the advantage to Ant-Man, though.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Why are you acting like it'd be such an "easy" thing to tag Scott when, based on feats, targeting and successfully hitting him with ranged weapons has been extremely difficult for everyone who has attempted it? And Lang is hardly just some idiot. He is extremely good at using his intelligence to take stock of the situation, improvise and adapt. So, as pointed out, he'd likely not choose to engage an enemy if he didn't at least have some idea how to engage it either, or where it was for that matter. Scott isn't going to just stand around full sized and wait for the Predator to attack and shoot him. That goes against pretty much everything we have seen of the character so far. Also, being suddenly shrunk to a 100th of its original size is more than likely going to throw off a Predator for at least a moment, regardless of whether its tech still works or not.

I'm just pointing out that if AM shrinks Predator then AM becomes a much larger and easier to hit target. That's just common sense. Also I'm not trying to downplay Lang. Hell in the beginning of this very thread I gave him the win. But after thinking on it I've changed my mind.

Lang is skilled no doubt but I don't see his hits downing the Predator when it took many shotgun blasts at close range just to temp KO one. Add to that fact that Lang will no doubt have a very difficult time even locating the Pred to begin with. And I do think the Pred wouldn't find tiny AM right away but it has a better chance imo. Then all it would need to do is fire a plasma blast from a distance. Lang would never even see it coming

He also at least took a couple shoots from the mini gun and still got away.

Originally posted by golem370
He also at least took a couple shoots from the mini gun and still got away.

Yeah. Preds have walked away from a lot: minigun, shotgun, liquid nitrogen, severed limbs, falling from great height, etc...

However the speed of their plasma casters leaves a little to be desired, we've seen aliens slink out of the way of oncoming shots and we can clearly see the plasma blast moving, not all that fast, across the screen... it's not like a laser blast.

From the whole it left in Venture's character it has big beam for a lack of a better word. Dutch in his own right was a steroid using super soldier highly skilled. The Predator in two tanked a lightning strike.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Yeah. Preds have walked away from a lot: minigun, shotgun, liquid nitrogen, severed limbs, falling from great height, etc...

However the speed of their plasma casters leaves a little to be desired, we've seen aliens slink out of the way of oncoming shots and we can clearly see the plasma blast moving, not all that fast, across the screen... it's not like a laser blast.

True the plasma isn't the super fast but Predator usually fires when you aren't expecting it. Hard to dodge something you never knew was coming in the first place