Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

SSJ2 Vegeta /w/ DBS rage-boost
http://i.imgur.com/QbIShTq.gif


VS.


-Round 1-
Super Boo:
http://i.imgur.com/B4OnXym.gif


-Round 2-
Shin Gohan
http://i.imgur.com/j7jP4gV.gif


-Round 3-
Boohan:
http://i.imgur.com/kADSBrJ.gif


-Round 4-
SSJ Vegetto
http://i.imgur.com/sN1ra9c.gif



Stips:
-Vegeta can sustain his rage-boosted levels for the entire battle.
-Vegeta returns to full power after every round.
-No transmutation/absorption for the Boos.
-Fight takes place in the RoSaT.


How far does he get?

Just given how unbelievably superior he was to ssj3 Goku, I'd say he likely gets to Super Vegeto.

Given how much better he did against Beerus than SSJ3 Goku and Shin Gohan did, I would be inclined to concur.

Is there a particular reason you guys think Vegetto is more powerful?

He's not beaten Gohan. Not at all.

The only reason he did good was because of rage plot. Burma got hurt, and somehow he tapped into his love rage and tickled Beerus.

We know for a fact Goku wasn't just sleeping and eating at King's Kai place, he was training his ass off everyday.

If we're considering that Vegeta was more powerful than SSj3, then we need to believe that after the BUU saga, that Vegeta did nothing but train, where as Goku barely trained.

Going back in looking at the BUU Saga, Majin SSJ2 Vegeta with at least x2 power up was almost beaten by SSJ2 Goku. Where has it was hinted that if Goku went SSJ3, he would have made Vegeta his plaything.

SSJ3's boost was far above BUU saga Vegeta, it was ridiculous. This is the same SSJ3 that was useless against Kid BUU, a weaker version of Super Buu, but just more chaotic.

It's possible he makes it to Buuhan. But not past. Vegeta is a better fighter than Gohan and would be around his levels in that mode. Imo anyway.

Originally posted by Kento
It's possible he makes it to Buuhan. But not past. Vegeta is a better fighter than Gohan and would be around his levels in that mode. Imo anyway.

After Dragonball, being a better fighter holds little to no merit anymore. It's all about Ki.

You suck as a fighter, well guess what? You're Ki's higher, then you're stronger.

Best example of that rule. Perfect Cell was 10x the fighter Gohan was, but what happened once Gohan went SSJ2? He made Cell his step child at every turn.

An even better example was Videl vs Spopovitch, Videl was the far Better fighter, but Spopovith had more Ki, and that's why he almost killed Videl in there fight.

Originally posted by Galan007
Is there a particular reason you guys think Vegetto is more powerful?

It's just because of how absurd Vegettos power was.

I mean ssj3 goku << Super Buu <<< Shin Gohan << Buutenks < Buuhan <<< SSJ Vegetto and he wasn't even trying.

Even with the massive power Vegeta had, I can't see him beating Vegeto.

Originally posted by SquallX
After Dragonball, being a better fighter holds little to no merit anymore. It's all about Ki.

You suck as a fighter, well guess what? You're Ki's higher, then you're stronger.

Best example of that rule. Perfect Cell was 10x the fighter Gohan was, but what happened once Gohan went SSJ2? He made Cell his step child at every turn.

An even better example was Videl vs Spopovitch, Videl was the far Better fighter, but Spopovith had more Ki, and that's why he almost killed Videl in there fight.

Gohan was trained by the best fighters in the world, he was no slouch.

And Spopy had some bad juju that helped him win, he couldn't really be hurt which is what made it such a bad matchup for Videl. She even broke his neck and he twisted it back.

Originally posted by SquallX
He's not beaten Gohan. Not at all.

The only reason he did good was because of rage plot. Burma got hurt, and somehow he tapped into his love rage and tickled Beerus.

We know for a fact Goku wasn't just sleeping and eating at King's Kai place, he was training his ass off everyday.

If we're considering that Vegeta was more powerful than SSj3, then we need to believe that after the BUU saga, that Vegeta did nothing but train, where as Goku barely trained.

Going back in looking at the BUU Saga, Majin SSJ2 Vegeta with at least x2 power up was almost beaten by SSJ2 Goku. Where has it was hinted that if Goku went SSJ3, he would have made Vegeta his plaything.

SSJ3's boost was far above BUU saga Vegeta, it was ridiculous. This is the same SSJ3 that was useless against Kid BUU, a weaker version of Super Buu, but just more chaotic.

And yet, SSJ2 rage boosted Vegeta is demonstrably vastly more powerful than SSJ3 Goku.

Originally posted by SquallX
He's not beaten Gohan. Not at all.

The only reason he did good was because of rage plot. Burma got hurt, and somehow he tapped into his love rage and tickled Beerus.

We know for a fact Goku wasn't just sleeping and eating at King's Kai place, he was training his ass off everyday.

If we're considering that Vegeta was more powerful than SSj3, then we need to believe that after the BUU saga, that Vegeta did nothing but train, where as Goku barely trained.

Going back in looking at the BUU Saga, Majin SSJ2 Vegeta with at least x2 power up was almost beaten by SSJ2 Goku. Where has it was hinted that if Goku went SSJ3, he would have made Vegeta his plaything.

SSJ3's boost was far above BUU saga Vegeta, it was ridiculous. This is the same SSJ3 that was useless against Kid BUU, a weaker version of Super Buu, but just more chaotic. What does it matter who did what?

The fact remains that Vegeta did a crazy amount better than anyone there. Including Mystic Gohan and SS3 Goku. Hell he actually straight up tanked a punch from the same level Beerus that was flicking and touching people to sleep.

Vegeta could have sat on his ass and ate bagels the entire time and it still wouldn't negate his performance. He was vastly more powerful than Goku and Gohan and it was even said he surpassed Goku anyway.

Hell after that it took him 6 months of training to surpass Goku's God base, so don't knock Vegeta's training.

Vegeta was way more powerful than double Gohan I'm waging so he'd beat Buuhan.

Considering how wildly above Buuhan Vegeto was it's hard to say Vegeta wins. The only indicator we have is Goku saying even Vegeto would fall to Beerus and since it's to be assumed Beerus was using about as much power against Goku as he was the other Z Fighters, that would put Vegeta in a respectable gap away from Vegeto, but that's based on some assumptions.

You could also go the Frieza power up route to try and figure out how many Mystic Gohans would fit inside 10 percent of Beerus to try as well but that requires some calculations. Vegeta making Beerus go that high however is a huge honor even though he one slapped him considering everyone else was miniscule percentages of Beerus' power. Like under 0.5 at the most

Originally posted by SquallX
An even better example was Videl vs Spopovitch, Videl was the far Better fighter, but Spopovith had more Ki, and that's why he almost killed Videl in there fight. That's really not a good example.

Videl actually beat the tar out of Spopovich initially. The only reason Videl lost the decisive advantage is because Spopovich had seemingly limitless stamina, and relative immortality(*thx Majin-amp*.) Obviously Videl possessed neither of those deus ex abilities.

Originally posted by Galan007
Is there a particular reason you guys think Vegetto is more powerful?

Because at that point SSJ2 Vegeta being more powerful is too absurd.

Based on how he was handling Beerus, I don't think it's *that* absurd, tbh.

I elect to think that Super Vegito could pull his weight in a fight with ~5% Beerus too, tbh.

Even though Goku's statements after initially getting fingered by Beerus imply the exact opposite?

What, that fusing with Vegeta might not be enough to beat Beerus? I don't know about you, but I wasn't really under the impression that Beerus was going to lose to Vegeta even if he didn't ramp up to 10%.

Godly ki can't be sensed, so Goku would have been entirely clueless how much power Beerus was holding back. That said, the power Beerus displayed against SSJ3 Goku is the power Goku believed was superior to fusion... And that amount of power was significantly less than Beerus used against beserker Vegeta.

Not saying this as a certainty. Just saying that I can see why some would disagree with your opinion that it is "absurd" to rank beserker Vegeta in the same tier as Vegetto. After all, it's not like Goku is just some random mook who can't be taken seriously. Where fighting/powerlevels are concerned, his word is about as infallible as it gets--especially when we haven't been given any legitimate reason to doubt his word.

Originally posted by Galan007
Godly ki can't be sensed, so Goku would have been entirely clueless how much power Beerus was holding back. That said, the power Beerus displayed against SSJ3 Goku is the power Goku believed was superior to fusion... And that amount of power was significantly less than Beerus used against beserker Vegeta.

Not saying this as a certainty. Just saying that I can see why some would disagree with your opinion that it is "absurd" to rank beserker Vegeta in the same tier as Vegetto. After all, it's not like Goku is just some random mook who can't be taken seriously. Where fighting/powerlevels are concerned, his word is about as infallible as it gets--especially when we haven't been given any legitimate reason to doubt his word.

Originally posted by Galan007
Godly ki can't be sensed, so Goku would have been entirely clueless how much power Beerus was holding back. That said, the power Beerus displayed against SSJ3 Goku is the power Goku believed was superior to fusion... And that amount of power was significantly less than Beerus used against beserker Vegeta.

Didn't even mention this; you're responding the the answer that you expected rather than the one that was given.

Also, there's no proof that Beerus was fighting at a higher level against Vegeta than he was against Goku--not until he one-shotted him, that is.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Didn't even mention this; you're responding the the answer that you expected rather than the one that was given.

Also, there's no proof that Beerus was fighting at a higher level against Vegeta than he was against Goku--not until he one-shotted him, that is. Beerus literally said Vegeta gave him more than Goku which at the very least implies he used the same if not more against Vegeta. He also pondered for a second if Vegeta was the SSG, and then told him it's been a long time since someone forced him to use 10 percent.

All of those things point to Vegeta being more powerful, and him probably using the same amount of power against Vegeta if not more until the Galick Gun. If he was even using 5 percent of his power against Vegeta and getting knocked around like that then that'd still put Vegeta way above Buuhan. And no one else could even touch let alone effect Beerus in any way when he was just casually standing there. Vegeta actually forced him to fight at that level.

Those things prove Vegeta was stronger than Goku, not Beerus.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Didn't even mention this; you're responding the the answer that you expected rather than the one that was given. I'm simply reiterating the level Beerus was operating at when he battled SSJ3 Goku, because that is the same level(at a minimum) he was initially operating at against berserker Vegeta. ie. the same level(at a minimum) that Goku didn't think fusion would be able to contend with.

This is a very important fact to consider when you're claiming that it's absurd to put berserker Vegeta in Vegetto's tier.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Also, there's no proof that Beerus was fighting at a higher level against Vegeta than he was against Goku--not until he one-shotted him, that is. Bran already answered this, so I'll leave it alone.

Galan is pretty spot on

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm simply reiterating the level Beerus was operating at when he battled SSJ3 Goku, because that is the same level(at a minimum) he was initially operating at against berserker Vegeta



Why are we passing this for the 2nd time when neither of us have made any sort of contrary claim?



That is not what I said. Adding words changes meaning, please stop doing so for dramatic effect.

Yes, it does seem a "bit too absurd" to me that becoming angry provides a bigger power boost than potara fusion.



Who?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Who?

One Big Mob. He used to have a different username.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Those things prove Vegeta was stronger than Goku, not Beerus. No one ever said Vegeta was stronger than Beerus, but that doesn't mean Vegeta couldn't have been close to the Beerus Goku fought. Beerus feeling he needs to ramp up his power was only done again when he was fighting SSG whenever Goku would get close to him in power.

Even if Vegeta was nowhere close to whatever level Beerus was using, he was still far and away more powerful than everyone else.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why are we passing this for the 2nd time when neither of us have made any sort of contrary claim?

That is not what I said. Adding words changes meaning, please stop doing so for dramatic effect.

Yes, it does seem a "bit too absurd" to me that becoming angry provides a bigger power boost than potara fusion.

Who? Who's being dramatic? srsly

You said that you think it's absurd to put berserker Vegeta in the same tier as Vegetto. I explained to you why it is not. It really is that simple.

...Not sure why you're playing the faux-victim card. /shrug

He's new at being a guy Galan. He hasn't grown accustomed to the testosterone and penistip.

Give him a break. He'll get used to it.

It is the penistip that binds us.

Originally posted by Galan007
You said that you think it's absurd to put berserker Vegeta in the same tier as Vegetto. I explained to you why it is not. It really is that simple.

...Not sure why you're playing the faux-victim card.

Sure, you explained why Vegeta being in Vegetto's tier isn't absurd, but I never said that it was in the first place.

You're exaggerating what I said to better fit your argument. It has nothing to do with victimization; rather, it's just poor argumentation on your part. And I'm pointing it out.

1) Super Buu - the only problem is his regen.

2) M. Gohan - dies. Sure, Vegeta has the time limit, as he can't stay berserk forever, but we've seen how "well" M. Gohan has performed against Beerus...

3) Buuhan - this is where things get interesting.

4) Vegitto - no. Just no.

Just wondering why you think beating Vegitto is out of the question?

Vegitto never really went all out against Buuhan. He was toying with him.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
You're exaggerating what I said to better fit your argument. It has nothing to do with victimization; rather, it's just poor argumentation on your part. And I'm pointing it out. I didn't exaggerate anything you said. At all. I'm sorry that you don't like me taking the word "absurd" literally.

That fact that you are still playing victim is funny, though... As is your attempt at deflection.

I said that it's absurd for Vegeta to surpass Vegetto. You said it's absurd for Vegeta to be in Vegetto's tier. Yes, there is an obvious difference between those two statements; chief of which, that your argument only serves to disprove one of them. Which is why it is poor. Beyond that, if you have nothing to argue with other than pointless quips, then I have no desire or reason to speak with you further.

You need to go back and reread the debate if you think that was EVER put into question by me.

You said it's "absurd" to rank Vegeta in a higher tier than Vegetto. I simply provided proof as to why Vegeta should be in the same tier as Vegetto at the very least--and based on that, an argument can certainly be made for him to be superior. Suffice to say, it's far from an "absurd" assertion.

If you're going to cry rape, at least be thorough with your accusations.

|
v



Are you daft?

Posted by you:
"You said it's absurd for Vegeta to be in Vegetto's tier."

I NEVER said that.

Ergo my response:
"You need to go back and reread the debate if you think that was EVER put into question by me."


Get it?

Vegeta punches Vegeto's heart out through his bellybutton.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Vegeta punches Vegeto's heart out through his bellybutton. *butthole

I just don't see it guys

What?

Originally posted by Damborgson
I just don't see it guys If we go by the mystic Gohan scale which I believe Toriyama stated is the new official ki

4th Form Frieza was over 226 times stronger than him. Golden Frieza was at least twice as strong. And even Golden Frieza was weaker than Beerus, so let's say...

Golden Frieza = 90 percent Beerus
4th Form Frieza = 45 percent Frieza

At best, and at best makes it look better for everyone let's keep in mind that operated at Z levels.


So that would make 100 percent Beerus be 498 times Gohan.
Which means 10 percent Beerus was almost 50 times Gohan. 5 percent which we're assuming Beerus was operating at against the Z fighters would be almost 25 times Gohan level. Buuhan wasn't quite twice as powerful as Gohan, so Vegeto would have had to be 12.5 times more powerful than Buuhan to be comparable to the Beerus Vegeta was giving a good fight to. He might have been way more powerful, but 12.5 times is pretty large.

That's all rough estimates considering 1st Form Frieza was way above Gohan and that's assuming Golden Frieza was as high as 90 percent. In all likely hood you could double these amounts while still being modest.

Also I don't know how to math so I'm probably way off.

Not to mention Goku didn't think Vegeto could beat the Beerus Vegeta was able to give the temp buzznizz to as well. So again, it at the very least makes them comparable.

Toriyama certainly went out of his way to show us that base Freeza VASTLY surpassed ALL of the Z Fighters(barring Goku and Vegeta of course), and furthermore, was in the upper-echelon of ki they had EVER sensed(they were literally awestruck at his power.) This implies that he was already more powerful than any previous baddies, inc. the Boos... And then his 4th form would glean a ~226x boost above even that level of power.... And then his Golden form was no less than 2x his 4th form. Suffice to say: it's hard to even fathom such ridiculous power.


But anyway... According to Goku(whose word on gauging an opponent is pretty damned irrefutable), Beerus was already > Vegetto when they fought on King Kai's world. And given that Beerus was operating at no less than the same level against berserker Vegeta initially, Vegeta being on par with Vegetto is not only reasonable, it's perfectly logical.