Making a Murderer

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Surtur
I'm just going to flat out ask those who saw the show, do you think he did it?

Surtur
No opinions on this?

MF DELPH
I saw it. I'm skeptical about his guilt. The lack of the victim or his accomplices DNA in his home at the alleged murder scene, the inexplicable burn pit in the quarry which had the victims bones in it, and the dispatch audio of the sheriff running the victims plates 2 days into the search for her and then the vehicle being 'found' by a volunteer on the Avery property covered in twigs all cast enough doubt on the prosecution's theory regarding the events of the incident. That's not even accounting for the video of his nephew, the miraculous discovery of the keys and bullets in plain view after multiple days (and months, respectively) of searching, or the victim's voicemail being accessed via pin code and deleted during the time she was missing and after she was allegedly killed.

Robtard
It was all very odd and much of it did paint the guy as both innocent and being framed, but I also wonder if any crafty editing was had to make the viewer come to that conclusion.

The prosecution did bring up a point though, does anyone think the police murdered the woman, chopped her up, burned her and planted all that evidence just to nail this guy over his impending lawsuit and the embarrassment he was giving the PD for his previous false incarceration.

Quincy
Thought the show was really great!

No idea on the guilt thing. One of the problems I had while watching was that I felt sort of gross for "rooting" for a possible murderer.

But the interviews with his nephew and stuff? Disgusting.

Apparently more evidence will come to light soon to help me make a better decision. Really tough. Can't imagine what the jury went through in delegations.

MF DELPH
Originally posted by Robtard
It was all very odd and much of it did paint the guy as both innocent and being framed, but I also wonder if any crafty editing was had to make the viewer come to that conclusion.

The prosecution did bring up a point though, does anyone think the police murdered the woman, chopped her up, burned her and planted all that evidence just to nail this guy over his impending lawsuit and the embarrassment he was giving the PD for his previous false incarceration.

I think that point was a tactical red herring on the part of the prosecution in order to take focus off the fact that the evidence, while certainly not concretely proving a police conspiracy (if strongly hinting at one), had no bearing on the fact that there were enough holes in the prosecution's proposed theory of the events that transpired that Avery's guilt was seriously in doubt. By framing it as a "Do you really think your Cops would murder someone to frame this guy?" question it played on the jury's likely presupposition that law enforcement officials are inherently trustworthy and to think otherwise would be seemingly preposterous.

Despite the County Sheriff's doing just that in Avery's first case. Though in that case it was rape, not murder.

Robtard
For sure, it was definitely a foul-move as the prosecution's point of 'the police wouldn't do this' really has no bearing on the case, as it's the prosecution's job to show Avery the murderer without a doubt, not a 'if not him, who else' scenario.

Was just curious if anyone thought the police did actually do it. I'm fairly convinced they tampered with the evidence to some degree.

MF DELPH
Yeah, I think they likely tampered with evidence. The burn pit in the quarry was a red flag that something was up. Also the dispatch audio of the victim's plates being ran by a deputy who then claimed he wasn't actually looking at the vehicle when inquiring about the license plate with the make, model, and color of the vehicle. And the magic car key and bullet in the garage. There were just too many beneficial 'coincidences' that went on during the investigation.

Also, the parts with the nephew's interviews were disturbing.

Surtur
I don't think the cops would murder someone to frame him. Since if they were willing to go that far then they could just murder the guy himself. I do think they maybe would frame him for something they thought he must of committed. Or maybe even as some kind of weird revenge for the lawsuit he filed and for making them look bad.

On the other hand if he did do it I think it is very possible that the time he spent in prison for a crime he didn't commit turned him into the type of person who would murder someone. So for me either way the police played a part.

Also one thing that struck me is that he did indeed have the means to make the evidence they found really hard to find. He could of crushed up her car and put her bones in an incinerator or whatever, etc. He had all this equipment. But he leaves the car there and puts the bones in a bonfire instead? Then he has his learning disabled nephew help out? If you are a killer then that nephew is the last kind of person you'd want to bring in on your acts of murder, right? I mean look how easily manipulated he is.

I'm not expecting the guy to be a criminal genius, but you'd think a dude already put in jail for some shit he didn't do would think things out a bit more? He had the tools all around him to make the evidence hard to find. Then all the times the cops were caught in lies.

MF DELPH
I agree. I'm not going to go as far as to say the Sheriff's department killed her (though I am VERY open to the possibility). I do, however, think they burned her body in the quarry (there's radio traffic from the case with the Sheriff asking if they've found a body yet and whether Avery was in custody yet before any evidence had been discovered linking him to the crime) and then dumped the remains at Avery's house because it makes no sense for their to be a burn pit 1.5 miles south of his trailer which contains the woman's remains when he allegedly killed her and burned her remains right outside of his home.

Surtur
There is also some weirdness, like you know the guys girlfriend? Who is in one episode all "They are trying to get to Steven through me but I won't let them pull us apart" and then the next episode she leaves him? She has apparently said she was lying about being supportive because he threatened to kill her and her family.

Some people are using this as a sort of "aha! he is guilty" when it's more just a bit puzzling.

MF DELPH

BackFire
It was a really fascinating show. Whether he's guilty or not is almost irrelevant. The point is to show corruption and how flawed our justice system is as a whole.

His nephew's story was even more unsettling than his, I thought.

Surtur
Yeah the nephew almost deserves his own separate show.

Surtur
Anyone notice a few similarities between this and the "West Memphis Three" ?

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