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* KOTOR II version only

*Lightsabers only

Duel takes place in the Jedi temple

Surik wins, better physicals, technical mastery, augmentation, precognition, martial arts and experience.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Surik wins, better physicals, technical mastery, augmentation, precognition, martial arts and experience.

Physical? Like in the sense of what? Having higher stamina or strength?

Technical mastery? Humbling a battlemaster who was considered unparalleled and second makes it seem like he can handle surik in that department.


Martial arts, & precog go to surik.

The rest is pretty arguable.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Physical? Like in the sense of what? Having higher stamina or strength?

Technical mastery? Humbling a battlemaster who was considered unparalleled and second makes it seem like he can handle surik in that department.


Martial arts, & precog go to surik.

The rest is pretty arguable.

She has much higher stamina and durability, comparable speed and has the strength feats to match. She is undoubtedly more powerful, affording her better augmentation from the Force.

She is stated to have learnt every form but Form V: Djem-So, she achieved excellence in her mastery of Form VII: Juyo. By extension she is a master of multiple other forms too.

She wins, there is no area in which Jinn takes a margin. His greatest feat is holding off Maul, whom in reality just baited him away from Kenobi to get the killing blow.

She is a renowned army buster and has won via skill over the likes of Atris, Traya, and Sion. Whom are all master duelists themselves.

Originally posted by AncientPower
She has much higher stamina and durability,

I find impressive that QGJ was able to hold out as long as he did against a Duelist of Maul's caliber despite his age, lack of maneuvering room, and not to mention the innate weakness of his fight style



In Kotor 2? she has speed/strength feats? Mind refreshing my memory?





I need more than just "More powerful = better augmentation" quotes?



That's a mechanic, not fact. Where is it stated she learned all forms?



Because the duo was completely overwhelming, as stated in various sources. And we all saw the fight, QGJ was carrying the team, with Obi stepping in one time to stop maul from a killing blow.

Even if you disagree with that, Maul's defenses faltered during QGJ's final assault, making the Zabrak "unsure" of his victory.



Where is Sion stated to be a master duelist?

Atris is technically skilled due to Juyo and it's general description, but nothing says she's a masterful duelist. She may have mastered other forms, but she's not stated to have mastered Juyo, so meh.

Traya had one hand to fight, Makashi sure comes to mind as a favored form, but if memory serves me right she's stated to have fought via Force Powers no?

Traya also fought Meetra off by using the Force to use three airborn lightsabers

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I find impressive that QGJ was able to hold out as long as he did against a Duelist of Maul's caliber despite his age, lack of maneuvering room, and not to mention the innate weakness of his fight style

Surik fought through a 'legion' of the most elite Sith in the Triumvirate, on the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the galaxy. Before facing Darth Sion and then Darth Traya.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
In Kotor 2? she has speed/strength feats? Mind refreshing my memory?

She fought as an equal to Traya, whom point blank evaded Brianna's numerous attacks whilst standing still, Brianna who blitzed all five of the handmaidens simultanepusly, each with Echani precog.

She also fought as an equal to Darth Sion, whom easily lifts up Kreia and Atton Rand with one arm, and overwhelmed him, four times in succession. Whilst exhausted and hampered by a geyser of DS energy.

She also fought and killed entire packs of storm beasts, including the Greater Storm Beasts, whom can apparently one shot Jedi with their hits.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
I need more than just "More powerful = better augmentation" quotes?

It's a general rule that the stronger you are, the greater your Force reserves and by extension greater augmentation.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That's a mechanic, not fact. Where is it stated she learned all forms?

She instinctually remembers and learns Forms I-III from Kreia, she learns the others from the Jedi Masters along her journey. Even Vrook Lamar is impressed, Kavar however praises her quick mastery of Juyo.

Fightsaber confirmed that Jedi have to be high level masters of multiple forms before you can even try Juyo, which is the form she is confirmed to be a master of.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Because the duo was completely overwhelming, as stated in various sources. And we all saw the fight, QGJ was carrying the team, with Obi stepping in one time to stop maul from a killing blow.

Even if you disagree with that, Maul's defenses faltered during QGJ's final assault, making the Zabrak "unsure" of his victory.

Yet TPM still states Maul dictated the entire engagement and split them off on purpose. Jinn was overwhelmed and died in short order.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Where is Sion stated to be a master duelist?

Bladeborn are masters of combat that get given blades to represent their kills against Jedi, Darth Sion was their leader. Obviously he would have to be as well.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Atris is technically skilled due to Juyo and it's general description, but nothing says she's a masterful duelist. She may have mastered other forms, but she's not stated to have mastered Juyo, so meh.

Juyo implies that she must have mastered multiple forms to a high level beforehand. Not to mention she is erroneously afforded the accolade of being a master duelist in the prima guide, but under the name Darth Traya, whom she was meant to take the title of.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Traya had one hand to fight, Makashi sure comes to mind as a favored form, but if memory serves me right she's stated to have fought via Force Powers no?

She telekinetically weilded three, despite such powers and her superior power in the Force, Surik defeated her. Which logically infers Surik must have defeated her through a duel.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Physical? Like in the sense of what? Having higher stamina or strength?

Technical mastery? Humbling a battlemaster who was considered unparalleled and second makes it seem like he can handle surik in that department.


Martial arts, & precog go to surik.

The rest is pretty arguable. Well, she definitely has higher physicals/strength.

Qui-Gon is an Ataru user, so the years have really put him down as a Jedi, its the reason why Obi-Wan wanted Soresu, so he didn't have to make the same mistake Qui-Gon did.

Meetra Surik

It won't let me edit my post, meh.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/picard_clapping.gif

Originally posted by |King Joker|
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/picard_clapping.gif

Don't worry Boo, your coveted response will come.

Meetra just instantly learns his fighting style and weaknesses before countering. I mean losing to Maul, who struggled more with raged Kenobi, is impressive and all, Fated, but lasting, "A while," won't take the cake here.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Meetra just instantly learns his fighting style and weaknesses before countering. I mean losing to Maul, who struggled more with raged Kenobi, is impressive and all, Fated, but lasting, "A while," won't take the cake here. People keep attributing that ability to the Exile but it was Kreia who was able to interpret their fighting styles and weaknesses before conveying it to Surik, though granted the Exile was able to apply this knowledge to great effect.

But yeah, Qui-Gon is in physical decline whereas the Exile taking on the entire Trayus Academy by herself demonstrates considerably superior physicals.

I'm talking about what actually happens in story, not random dialogue meant to explain game mechanics. Story-wise, she needed no help learning these styles, she was just told to watch, and only on the Dark Side route.

Cut scenes aren't part of the story now? Ok.

And where does she insta analyse styles in the LS path?

That's not what I mean, and you know it. I just wasn't talking about that bit. Even though it isn't a cutscene and was just random dialogue.

I assume if you learn a style, you learn it's weaknesses, something the player didn't need Kreia for, since they do kindly brought gameplay into the dialogue you're bringing up.

When the Jedi Masters taught her the various forms, she learnt them quickly because of her Force bonds makes it easier for her to understanding teachings being conveyed.

Seeing has she neither has a bond with Qui Gon and he's not about to give her 101 in his form, it's not really relevant.

And it was a cutscene, look it up. The Exile breaks off combat and Kreia starts giving her advice through their TP connection, like she does throughout the game, the masters ask her what she could possibly learn and the Exile tells her she's analysed their style, much to their amazement.

Something she again interprets so quickly from Kreia because of their bond.

Passing that off as "random dialogue" as opposed to an obvious story element seems like conformation biased to me.

Kreia does nothing more than give the Exile some information about the form, but Meetra is the one who copies it's movements and actually learns the form.

She also forms bonds extremely quickly with people around her so she'd bond with him in the fight like always.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kreia does nothing more than give the Exile some information about the form, but Meetra is the one who copies it's movements and actually learns the form.

She also forms bonds extremely quickly with people around her so she'd bond with him in the fight like always. Because of their connection, Kreia (and the Masters) didn't need to use much words because through their bonds she could understand her meaning completely. The Exile is still dependent on being taught however.

I don't know about forming a bond with Qui-Gon, they emerge out of kinship, which is the opposite of their relationship in this fight. Whether that would lead her to intepret his strengths and weaknesses is a further assumption.

So, tossing aside semantics about game-mechanics and what-not. Meetra is confirmed of a level of skill and tactical proficiency that Qui-Gon's only chance of betaing her, blitzing her while his stamina is good, is impossible. Beyond that, Meetra is a confirmed marathon-tier capable fighter against someone who is noted to have flagging stamina due to his age, and his style puts a natural strain on this.

Thus, I feel this fight would go a LOT like how Anakin versus Windu is depicted in Episode 3 the game Qui-Gon eventually tiring enough for Meetra to deliver a finishing blow

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because of their connection, Kreia (and the Masters) didn't need to use much words because through their bonds she could understand her meaning completely. The Exile is still dependent on being taught however.

I don't know about forming a bond with Qui-Gon, they emerge out of kinship, which is the opposite of their relationship in this fight. Whether that would lead her to intepret his strengths and weaknesses is a further assumption.

Except that there's nothing to suggest that Meetra is learning from Kreia, whereas Meetra directly states that she's learning the forms from the Jedi Master's in dialogue options:

"You are a fine teacher, Kavar. Even now I learn from you."
"My power still grows. You've shown me the way."
"I am already learning from you."
"I merely wished to see how you held the blade - first to mock it, then to use it to kill you."
"Your techniques are so easily learned now."
"You've shown me your fighting style, fool."
"I am studying your technique" "You think you can learn my technique just from watching me? It takes a Jedi years to perfect it." "Nevertheless, I have learned your form and now I will use it to kill you."

The Exile and Nihilus are freaks though. Their force draining technique relies upon forming bonds with opponents and using that bond to drain them upon death.

Nothing? She straight up tells her how to beat them e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_n9V12mdf4&t=1m16s

Even going as far to assume the Exile's been taken in by the illusion in this case.

The Exile taking the credit is Dun Moch, she's trying to intimidate them. But its evident that Kreia was at least of significant help.

Yes, nothing. Advice isn't teaching someone a form, it's just Kreia giving some advice. In some cases her advice is to do the opposite of using their form. Like going on the defensive to tire Zez-Kai Ell out when he uses a super aggressive form. Or to get aggressive while Vrook is using a form that regenerates his energies.

Bullshit it's Dun Moch. That's baseless theorising that's counter to what Meetra herself says. Her account is a lot more reliable than your headcanon.

Right, IKreia teaches her the lightsaber styles and Force forms in a totally different setting as I recall, here she's only anaylsing their strengths and weaknesses based on what Kreia is telling her.

And its obviously Dun Moch, considering she's taking credit for what Kreia told her 2 seconds ago.

EDIT: My mistake, she only teaches her one of the Forms. She inteprets the rest from fighting the masters. That said as far how to counter it them, she learns that from Kreia.

Which is surely what is important here. mmm

Just agree that Surik's learning is just incredibly ridiculous.

Uh, what? No, she learns them right there in the fight. Thats the whole "I have learned your form and now I will use it to kill you." thing.

She isn't taking credit for anything other than her own abilities. Kreia gives her some exposition on the form and some strats, but she doesn't teach her the form itself. As I said, in several cases the form Meetra gains is completely counter to the advice Kreia gives her. Meetra learns the form through mere observation as she states:

"I merely wished to see how you held the blade - first to mock it, then to use it to kill you."
"I am studying your technique"

Edit: Gotcha.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Don't worry Boo, your coveted response will come. https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/xb4QsgBfwH4xGMDV6KDH4Q--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NTAwO2g9MjEz/http://l.yimg.com/cd/diminuendo/1.0/original/02360b8def0e69b3cd544fe8aa530a5d35989483.gif