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*Vader has his Rebels feats

Duel takes place in Metropolis

Ultron wins.

Vader

don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the power to carry the Avengers to a mediocre movie is insignificant next to the power of the Force

Originally posted by relentless1
Vader

don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed, the power to carry the Avengers to a mediocre movie is insignificant next to the power of the Force Based on ?

I'm asuming its just the one ultron and not an army. Vader wins. If the robot cones close, he gets the lightsaber. If he stays away, he gets his lasers reflectedor the force. Vader wins.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I'm asuming its just the one ultron and not an army. Vader wins. If the robot cones close, he gets the lightsaber. If he stays away, he gets his lasers reflectedor the force. Vader wins. Bs, Vader loses.

It took an infinity stone, tri beam and all of thors power to even damage ultron.

Infinity stone > Force

Ultron wins with ease.

Vader wins

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
Vader wins Based on ?

how do you know that a saber wouldn't cut through Ultron? establish that can't happen and you may have a point with Vader although he'd still have the Force. If a newbie like Scarlet Witch was able to TK Ultrons "heart" out then Vader could just as easily rip him apart.

Originally posted by relentless1
how do you know that a saber wouldn't cut through Ultron? establish that can't happen and you may have a point with Vader

Are you asking someone else to prove a negative, even after evidence of Ultron's durability has already been provided by TI? He made a statement and used an actual screen feat as evidence to support it. If you disagree you have to create a counter argument, not claim that it can until someone else proves it can't.

Originally posted by relentless1
If a newbie like Scarlet Witch was able to TK Ultrons "heart" out then Vader could just as easily rip him apart.

Yeah, because she did that when he was at full strength and power, and completely capable of fighting back.

And this is the same SW who also basically vaporised a whole group of lesser Ultron bots, and also stopped a runaway train.

Not saying Ultron wins, but this argument is a poor one.

Almost all his arguments are poor ones, they usually boil down to which character he likes more.

Well, Ultron wouldn't ba able to take out Vader with any type of ranged attack, Vader has proven capable of blocking lasers with either his Saber or even his hand. He could also move Ultron around via force TK making a "slugfest" uneventful at best.

Just depends on whether the Saber can cut/slice the bot I suppose.

Thenagain... if Ultron's mind is developed enough, Vader could control him. F-it, he could mentally start pulling out wires and servos.

Vader wins.

Ultron was also able to kind of superheat his hands or something, as seen when he cut off Klaw's one arm, and had that weird electromagnetic power he used to yank Iron Man towards him during that same fight, and also uses during the freeway fight against Cap (and it was pretty strong, as it was ripping up large pieces of concrete and metal), so he has more options than just blasting and punching.

Just curious what mind control feats Vader has at this point to suggest he could control something as advanced as Ultron's AI.

I think movie Vader loses this. Ultorn has way to many perks going for him. Stronger, more agile due to flight, more versatile weaponry. More power output based on feats. Ultron's flight could possibly counter any TK Vader tried to use on him.

Originally posted by relentless1
how do you know that a saber wouldn't cut through Ultron? establish that can't happen and you may have a point with Vader although he'd still have the Force. If a newbie like Scarlet Witch was able to TK Ultrons "heart" out then Vader could just as easily rip him apart. When did I say that ?

Vader wins. He would destroy him using the force.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vader wins. He would destroy him using the force.

Oh and how would the force do that? He was able to survive an infinty stone/tribeam/thor's lightning. Then a hulk smash across the city. Then more hulk smash in the ramjet, then the impact from that when he hit the ground. All this is while he was injured

Mind you the infinity gem was also able to override Odin's enchantment

Kiss my ass everyone,

Ultron stomps

Also Vader is mostly machine, Ultron may be able to mess with Vaders body somewhat.

He can just pull him apart with his magnetic control.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Oh and how would the force do that? He was able to survive an infinty stone/tribeam/thor's lightning. Then a hulk smash across the city. Then more hulk smash in the ramjet, then the impact from that when he hit the ground. All this is while he was injured

Mind you the infinity gem was also able to override Odin's enchantment

Kiss my ass everyone,

Ultron stomps My comment was more of a troll comment. Ultron probably should win this but I can see him losing and if he does win it is hardly a stomp. You take away from how dangerous the force is portrayed in Star Wars.

What defense does Ultron have against the force?

Here are my Vader arguments:
Vader could hold him in place using the force and drive his saber through him no matter how long it took.
Vader could also using the force to hold him and start simply breaking him up inside.
I don't see a weapon that Ultron can use that Vader can't block or turn against him.

As for durability Vader was able to tank a blow from Luke's saber in ESB.
Block a shot from Han Solo with his hands.
Take a full onslaught of Sidious Lightning.
Live while having the majority of his body burned.

So I see no one blow taking out Vader. I think it would be a good battle. As I said one that Ultron probably should win but I can see losing.

Those blaster hits was blocked by the force. Which pales in comparison to Ultrons blasts.

He died from Sidious lighting.

He didn't take a direct hit from the saber, it was a glance.

iirc, Vader didn't die from the lighting directly harming his body, he died because the lightning fried out his life-support.

He died

I don't see how Ultron is any different from a Battle Droid in the sense that we've seen Jedi dismantle machines very very easily. Now before you jump all over me and say that Ultron is much more advanced...he is and I won't deny that but he's still just circuitry and wires that can be TK manipulated or destroyed and thats just using the Force, we have seen lightsabers make butter out of super thick blast doors so I am of the opinion that one could cut through Ultron, even if it did take longer than usual.

The difference He's made from a nigh indestructible material that withstood the two of most powerful weapons in MCU on top of Tony's tri beams.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He died I know but Rob said hey his suit failed killing Vader somehow changes this. Point and laugh it's Robbie trying his best to debate.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vader wins. He would destroy him using the force.

Originally posted by quanchi112


The force can hurt vibranium? A substance that repels any force?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The force can hurt vibranium? A substance that repels any force?

Star Wars trolls. I have done my best to challenge them but they run whenever I challenge them.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know but Rob said hey his suit failed killing Vader somehow changes this. Point and laugh it's Robbie trying his best to debate.

You're inability to follow a conversation isn't my problem, it's yours

Originally posted by Robtard
You're inability to follow a conversation isn't my problem, it's yours Your inability to understand simple grammar is your problem. Disrupting his suit to kill him is killing Vader. Luke tanked it just fine, dummy.


I wish you could debate better after all these years but sadly you can't.

Originally posted by Robtard
iirc, Vader didn't die from the lighting directly harming his body, he died because the lightning fried out his life-support.

Don't play games with me Rob, they might work with Quan, but it ends there.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Don't play games with me Rob, they might work with Quan, but it ends there.

There's no games, your connection was faulty. Just because Force-lightning shorted out Vader's life-support, doesn't mean Ultron's finger blasts are guarantee to do the same. Possible yes, not a certainty. That was my point.

Of note: Ultron's blast didn't kill Dr. Helen Cho and she took a direct hit

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Don't play games with me Rob, they might work with Quan, but it ends there. Maybe he will listen to you but he's a troll who can't debate for shit.

Originally posted by Robtard
There's no games, your connection was faulty. Just because Force-lightning shorted out Vader's life-support, doesn't mean Ultron's finger blasts are guarantee to do the same. Possible yes, not a certainty. That was my point.

Of note: Ultron's blast didn't kill Dr. Helen Cho and she took a direct hit Palpatine also didn't kill Luke and he was under exposure for much longer than Vader.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Palpatine also didn't kill Luke and he was under exposure for much longer than Vader.



Thanks for supporting my point

Granted, you were trying your usual trollish nonsense, but you inadvertently helped. Good one.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Maybe he will listen to you but he's a troll who can't debate for shit.

"irony"

Originally posted by Robtard
There's no games, your connection was faulty. Just because Force-lightning shorted out Vader's life-support, doesn't mean Ultron's finger blasts are guarantee to do the same. Possible yes, not a certainty. That was my point.

Of note: Ultron's blast didn't kill Dr. Helen Cho and she took a direct hit

I never said what you are claiming.

Ultron mangles Vadar with his powers.

Originally posted by Robtard
Thanks for supporting my point

Granted, you were trying your usual trollish nonsense, but you inadvertently helped. Good one.



"irony" It shows Vader is even more susceptible since fl took him out. Thanks for agreeing. It's easier to short him out than to kill Luke.

Palps when he was using his force lightning wasn't using it to it's full power with Luke, least I don't think he was. He was torturing Luke, he wanted to kill him slowly. Palps tortures Luke and then says "Now young Skywalker...you will die," before unleashing what I think was the full power of his force lightning.

Ultron wins

Vader has never shown the ability to simply freeze someone with the force. He has only choked people which wouldn't work with Ultron.

Ultron has also survived quite a lot more damage output than a single lightsaber has been shown to inflict.

Ultron is far stronger than any opponent Vader has fought.

Ultron has some form of electromagnetism. Vader is half robot.

Ultron generates repulsor blasts thicker and stroger than any laser blasts Vader has blocked before.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Those blaster hits was blocked by the force. Which pales in comparison to Ultrons blasts. Which makes the feat that more impressive. He effortlessly block the blaster shots.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He died from Sidious lighting. Of course he did. He did not block the attack but took it full on. You make the statement as if Sidious lightning is weak. He killed two powerful force users (Mace and Vader) with his lightning and temporarily made Yoda go unconscious with just a shot of his lightning.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He didn't take a direct hit from the saber, it was a glance.
What is your definition of direct? It wasn't a glance, look at the scene again. Luke struck his arm with his light saber.

With all the weapons and durability that Ultron has, you still haven't answer how is he going to stop Vader from holding him in place with the force and driving his saber through him.

What is Ultron defense for the force?

This whole defense against the force nonsense is ridiculous. We see Cad Bane, Jango Fett, etc. take out force users. Where was the force when they won ?

Originally posted by Kotor3
Which makes the feat that more impressive. He effortlessly block the blaster shots.

Of course he did. He did not block the attack but took it full on. You make the statement as if Sidious lightning is weak. He killed two powerful force users (Mace and Vader) with his lightning and temporarily made Yoda go unconscious with just a shot of his lightning.


What is your definition of direct? It wasn't a glance, look at the scene again. Luke struck his arm with his light saber.

With all the weapons and durability that Ultron has, you still haven't answer how is he going to stop Vader from holding him in place with the force and driving his saber through him.

What is Ultron defense for the force?

His defense from the force is he has flight and his own TK which is much stronger then Vadar's choke holds.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Vader has never shown the ability to simply freeze someone with the force. He has only choked people which wouldn't work with Ultron.

Actually, not entirely true. Since SW: Rebels is considered official cannon (yeah, I know), Vader has shown the ability to Force-hold someone (Ezra) against a metal structure while simultaneously using the Force to manipulate another body part.

BXoJeLDyVBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXoJeLDyVBY

@ 01:56

Originally posted by Robtard
Actually, not entirely true. Since SW: Rebels is considered official cannon (yeah, I know), Vader has shown the ability to Force-hold someone (Ezra) against a metal structure while simultaneously using the Force to manipulate another body part.

BXoJeLDyVBY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXoJeLDyVBY

@ 01:56

I'm going to ask a big favor. Can someone list down all the media for Star Wars that are considered canon in the MvF?

Cartoons make debating SW characters so much harder.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm going to ask a big favor. Can someone list down all the media for Star Wars that are considered canon in the MvF?

Cartoons make debating SW characters so much harder.

Star Wars eps 1-7 (so far)

Star Wars: Clone Wars

Star Wars: Rebels

Vibranium>Force

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Vibranium>Force

surely you jest

lets not forget that vader and other Force users that are weaker than Vader have made some pretty impressive lifts with the Force, for those of you that insist that Ultron is too strong for a Force user to rag doll.

In that clip I posted, Vader lifts two ATSTs.

After Ezra and Kanan put him on his ass since he wasn't fast enough to defeat those chumps. Ultron wrecks.

He's fast enough to fight off two jedi at once. I don't really watch rebels but I'm pretty sure both casually block blaster fire.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
He's fast enough to fight off two jedi at once. I don't really watch rebels but I'm pretty sure both casually block blaster fire. Neither Spoc them are even close to Kenobi level. FFS he should ass stomp these two clowns. Ultron takes on a team of avengers that would make Vader crap his pants.

A Thousand ultrons take a team of avengers.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
A Thousand ultrons take a team of avengers. Ultron prime took on Thor, etc. thor would wreck Vader in one hammer toss.

Originally posted by relentless1
lets not forget that vader and other Force users that are weaker than Vader have made some pretty impressive lifts with the Force, for those of you that insist that Ultron is too strong for a Force user to rag doll.

How can Vadar rag doll him. His electromagntism and thrusters will make him immune to any movement the force can generate.

His vibranium will resist anything else.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
A Thousand ultrons take a team of avengers. They all are Yltron just as the Smiths are still Smith in the matrix.

Originally posted by steverules_2
Palps when he was using his force lightning wasn't using it to it's full power with Luke, least I don't think he was. He was torturing Luke, he wanted to kill him slowly. Palps tortures Luke and then says "Now young Skywalker...you will die," before unleashing what I think was the full power of his force lightning.

His force lighting was pretty weak then cause it basically did nothing to luke.

Dooko's roflstomped anakin..

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
How can Vadar rag doll him. His electromagntism and thrusters will make him immune to any movement the force can generate.

His vibranium will resist anything else.

Um... How? The force has lifted space ships and giant walking tanks.

Not in the movies. Cartoon characters feats > live action film feats.

Its like comparing Disney's Hercules to Hercules.

Cartoon characters are basically toon force in these latest series.

Well A) yoda lifted a space ship in the movie and B) the rebels cartoon is canon. So I still don't really know what you're getting at.

When has anyone in the movies shown the ability to stop any moving space ships, speeders, or tie fighters?

Yoda took forever to lift that spaceship. And it wasn't during combat. Vader needs cartoon feats to win in this match. Without them he gets stomped.

Vader lifted 2 ATST walkers in rebels.

Originally posted by carthage
*Vader has his Rebels feats

Duel takes place in Metropolis

Vibranium Ultron?

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
His defense from the force is he has flight and his own TK which is much stronger then Vadar's choke holds. There is an argument to be made for Ultron but you are not doing a good job at doing so. How is flight a defense against the force? Especially for someone who is able to force choke beings across space while talking.

How are you able to prove that Ultron has TK that is stronger than Vader's? Do you want to reword that and say Ultron has greater TK feats within the movies?

From a TK standpoint (without using the TV series just the movies) Vader is able to use TK quite effectively while fighting with his saber at the same time as shown in ESB.

If Luke was in the process of lifting up his fighter ship out of the water I'm sure Vader can easily do so as Yoda did and more.

Kotor your argument is just sad. He choked beings on a screen without any combat prowess or any means of actually posing a threat anyways. They weren't able to hurt Vader in those circumstances either. Ultron is able to hurt or attack him by flying. Hell, Luke jumping out of that hole and Vader not even being aware shows movement can catch Vader clearly off guard.

Originally posted by Kotor3
There is an argument to be made for Ultron but you are not doing a good job at doing so. How is flight a defense against the force? Especially for someone who is able to force choke beings across space while talking.

How are you able to prove that Ultron has TK that is stronger than Vader's? Do you want to reword that and say Ultron has greater TK feats within the movies?

From a TK standpoint (without using the TV series just the movies) Vader is able to use TK quite effectively while fighting with his saber at the same time as shown in ESB.

If Luke was in the process of lifting up his fighter ship out of the water I'm sure Vader can easily do so as Yoda did and more.

He was able to rip up large sections of road instantly and pull them out of the ground without any effort. He basically has magneto like ability with metal.

Force choke across space is impressive but how is that hurting Ultron? He is vibraium a substance that can pretty much stalemate a infinity gem, thors lightning and tri beams.

Vadar has never shown the ability to bend or hurt a metal like vibranium.

Infinity Stone and Thors Hammer are more power then any force Vadar call put together, and yet vibranium has withstood a direct charged strike from Thor when Cap blocked it and all of its other feats.

Ultron has many ways to kill vadar, but vadar has very little.

Ultron can fly, control metal, blast projection, extremely strong and durable, and pretty damn fast on his feet.

Don't really see how force choke will work on someone who doesn't breathe.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Don't really see how force choke will work on someone who doesn't breathe. The force works in mysterious ways.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Don't really see how force choke will work on someone who doesn't breathe.

Force choke won't. Force crush will though.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Force choke won't. Force crush will though.

No that wont work, Vibranium can repel any force up to an infinity stone and more.

Vibraium works better under pressure, so a crushing force will just make it resist it even more.

I'm leaning towards Ultron, he overall seems to have better options then Vader, especially at range where Vader best chance is using the force to damage Ultron, where as Ultron can hurl rocks, building parts and so, on Vader all day long. The Repulsar Blasts will get blocked imo, so I don't see them as a huge factor. Getting into Close Range with Vader and his Lightsaber isn't a good move either, but Ultron isn't exactly stupid, he will know to keep his distance from the guy with the glowing plasma sword. So Ultron wins by fighting smart, but trying to get physical with Vader will end poorly imo.

Originally posted by relentless1
Star Wars eps 1-7 (so far)

Star Wars: Clone Wars

Star Wars: Rebels

Which is pretty much the whole Disney canon, and some novels too

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Which is pretty much the whole Disney canon, and some novels too

Star wars comics as well?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Star wars comics as well?

Any made post EU nuking? I'd assume so

I think it rules only allow characters that appear in BOTH the movie and tv shows. Comics not included.

Comics are a bit of an iffy area, considering some films have specific tie-in comics, like some of the MCU films. For example, the tie-in comic that shows Odin sending Thor to Earth during the events of Avengers. Now that is a comic detailing events surrounding some MCU characters, and that did occur, but we do not see onscreen. So something like that I would consider canon evidence, considering it directly relates to film events and characters. Hell, I think Marvel has over 20 MCU tie-in comics by this point.

As to Star Wars, I am assuming the Before the Awakening anthology book is also canon, considering it is a series of prequel stories about Po, Rey and Finn and the events before Ep VII.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Comics are a bit of an iffy area, considering some films have specific tie-in comics, like some of the MCU films. For example, the tie-in comic that shows Odin sending Thor to Earth during the events of Avengers. Now that is a comic detailing events surrounding some MCU characters, and that did occur, but we do not see onscreen. So something like that I would consider canon evidence, considering it directly relates to film events and characters. Hell, I think Marvel has over 20 MCU tie-in comics by this point.

As to Star Wars, I am assuming the Before the Awakening anthology book is also canon, considering it is a series of prequel stories about Po, Rey and Finn and the events before Ep VII.

While I agree on the tie ins, doesn't that just prove a slippery slope, atleast in regards to Marvel, who uses comics between movies to "fill" the story? Vader being the prime example in this case.

If one doesn't get comics neither should the other.

Originally posted by Utrigita
While I agree on the tie ins, doesn't that just prove a slippery slope, atleast in regards to Marvel, who uses comics between movies to "fill" the story? Vader being the prime example in this case.

Well, that is what I meant with it being a bit iffy. Where do you draw the line? The thing about the Marvel ones are that they tend to tie-in directly to film/tv events. Like the Odin sending Thor to Earth during Avengers one. We know that did happen. We just never saw it until we got the comic.

Now if it was simply random stories about the character, but they have no actual baring on any of the events we see onscreen, I wouldn't use them as evidence. But as you say, it can be a slippery slope with some characters.

I just remember the Thor one specifically coming up, because people were discussing whether or not Odin could quickly BFR someone using his powers. Based just on what we are told about him "conjuring dark energy" to send Thor back, we can't say much. But with the tie-in comic showing the actual event, we know what it takes for MCU Odin to accomplish said feat.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Force choke won't. Force crush will though.

You'll have to prove that Vader can force-crush something as durable as Ultron.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You'll have to prove that Vader can force-crush something as durable as Ultron. Do not expect ES to respond. Gutless fella.

Kotor has conceded to Ultron.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Kotor has conceded to Ultron. When did I say he would lose?

Originally posted by Kotor3
When did I say he would lose?

Right here

Originally posted by Kotor3
Vader wins. He would destroy him using the force.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Right here



damn

Originally posted by Kotor3
When did I say he would lose? Wow, this is rather sad of you. Just man up and admit you're talking out of your ass.

Obi Wan fought Jango Fett and had a hard time beating him. In fact, did not exactly beat him. Obi Wan's force powers were negated by Jango's technology. Ultron has more offensive and defensive capabilities than Jango.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Obi Wan fought Jango Fett and had a hard time beating him. In fact, did not exactly beat him. Obi Wan's force powers were negated by Jango's technology. Ultron has more offensive and defensive capabilities than Jango. Finally, someone else takes a page out of my playbook.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wow, this is rather sad of you. Just man up and admit you're talking out of your ass. You are too easy. I guess you skip the post where I said it was a troll comment. My defense was always against a stomp. I also stated that Vader could win.

Ah quanchi112, how i miss our discussions. You always thinking you won or made a point.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Obi Wan fought Jango Fett and had a hard time beating him. In fact, did not exactly beat him. Obi Wan's force powers were negated by Jango's technology. Ultron has more offensive and defensive capabilities than Jango. Uh, Obi Wan was just fighting Jango Fett. He was also fighting his clone which was in some type of ship or machine if I recall firing missiles at him. Also Jango Fett was retreating most of the type.

Lets talk about how Luke handle him with ease.

Originally posted by Kotor3
When did I say he would lose?

So your arguing both sides cause you said Vadar wins..

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So your arguing both sides cause you said Vadar wins.. Don't understand your question. What is your point?

I have only really made an argument for Vader. You stated stomp if I recall. You or anyone else who stated so has yet to show how it would be a stomp. I have stated that Ultron should win this multiple times.

My scenario for who wins is not an argument for both but a played out scenario that I see occurring based upon the characters attributes.

Vader never dies just retreats. According to Ultron attributes I could say he would do the same since he did so multiple times in the movies.

If Ultron is not able to get off his attacks while being held by the force then he dies no matter what material he is made from.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Uh, Obi Wan was just fighting Jango Fett. He was also fighting his clone which was in some type of ship or machine if I recall firing missiles at him. Also Jango Fett was retreating most of the type.

Lets talk about how Luke handle him with ease.

What the hell are you talking about? Luke fought Bobba, not Jango. Obi Wan fought Jango himself, not a clone.

Here's the whole fight. Obi Wan was definitely on his toes against Jango.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tMZdrUx8eM

Originally posted by FrothByte
What the hell are you talking about? Luke fought Bobba, not Jango. Obi Wan fought Jango himself, not a clone.

Here's the whole fight. Obi Wan was definitely on his toes against Jango.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tMZdrUx8eM Yes you are right about Luke. The point is he was similar to Jango and taken out with ease. As for the video it shows what I stated, Obi Wan was not fighting just one person unless you are ignoring the kid firing at him which made him lose his saber.

Also lets not forget Jedi don't aim to kill unlike Sith.

Originally posted by Kotor3
You are too easy. I guess you skip the post where I said it was a troll comment. My defense was always against a stomp. I also stated that Vader could win.

Ah quanchi112, how i miss our discussions. You always thinking you won or made a point. You said you never said it and were proven wrong. You're a joke. Always have been and always going to be. Ultron wins. He stomps him worse than an angry Luke.

As I recall, ultron wasn't pure vibranium but a "vibranium coktail". Just putting that out there.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Yes you are right about Luke. The point is he was similar to Jango and taken out with ease. As for the video it shows what I stated, Obi Wan was not fighting just one person unless you are ignoring the kid firing at him which made him lose his saber.

Also lets not forget Jedi don't aim to kill unlike Sith.

The kid (Bobba) fired on Obi wan like 2 times or so. Not exactly a 2 on 1 scenario.
Anyway point is, Ultron would have decimated Jango and his kid. Remember that Obi Wan defeated Anakin.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You said you never said it and were proven wrong. You're a joke. Always have been and always going to be. Ultron wins. He stomps him worse than an angry Luke. Typical you with no reading comprehension. Now please stay out of the conversation.

Obi wan fought jango as a knight. He fought anakin not only as a master but a member of the council. He had three years more training. Lets not forget that dooku beat both anakin and obi wan in ep2 but Anakin took him practically solo in ep 3.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The kid (Bobba) fired on Obi wan like 2 times or so. Not exactly a 2 on 1 scenario.
Anyway point is, Ultron would have decimated Jango and his kid. Remember that Obi Wan defeated Anakin. I know you feel this is a good point but it isn't. Kid Bobba did enough to distract Obi Wan. While Jango hid and attacked. Obi Wan wasn't trying (as a Jedi) to kill Jango.

Obi Wan was trying to kill newly converted Darth Vader. There is a big difference. I really hope you are not trying to compare that Anakin to prime Darth Vader.

Originally posted by Kotor3
I know you feel this is a good point but it isn't. Kid Bobba did enough to distract Obi Wan. While Jango hid and attacked. Obi Wan wasn't trying (as a Jedi) to kill Jango.

Obi Wan was trying to kill newly converted Darth Vader. There is a big difference. I really hope you are not trying to compare that Anakin to prime Darth Vader.

You're trying too hard. Fact is Obi Wan was unable to use any force push/crush/choke maneuver to effectively nullify Jango.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Obi wan fought jango as a knight. He fought anakin not only as a master but a member of the council. He had three years more training. Lets not forget that dooku beat both anakin and obi wan in ep2 but Anakin took him practically solo in ep 3.

And Ultron is leagues ahead of Jango.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Typical you with no reading comprehension. Now please stay out of the conversation. You were called out and admitted to trolling. You conceded already like a typical coward. Shame.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Obi wan fought jango as a knight. He fought anakin not only as a master but a member of the council. He had three years more training. Lets not forget that dooku beat both anakin and obi wan in ep2 but Anakin took him practically solo in ep 3. Windu also took him on and didn't use his force powers to easily crush him.

Try being objective, kid.

Force crush is a sith tactic. Jedi tend to avoid that. Obi wan did use the force against jango, just in a non lethal way.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Force crush is a sith tactic. Jedi tend to avoid that. Obi wan did use the force against jango, just in a non lethal way. Jedi kill as well. I guess iyo Windu will cut a guys head off but force crush is too far. Even Luke used force choke, sport. Fl is Sith only.

Windu was trying to kill him. Obi wan had orders ftom the counsel to bring the bounty hunter in for questioning.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Windu was trying to kill him. Obi wan had orders ftom the counsel to bring the bounty hunter in for questioning. So he couldn't easily beat him with his force powers which was the point.

He also beat Palpatine.

And anakin beat him. Windu took out jango in like ten seconds.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
And anakin beat him. Windu took out jango in like ten seconds. A beasts damaged his jetpack
Context.

Jango can't fly so windu wins= context.
Obi wan under order not to kill jango= pathetic jedi can't even beat jango.

Do i understand that right?

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Jango can't fly so windu wins= context.
Obi wan under order not to kill jango= pathetic jedi can't even beat jango.

Do i understand that right? Windu didn't break his jetpack the beast did.

Kenobi beat Anakin and didn't kill him either. Why didn't he use those force powers for the safe win ?

To be fair he did cut off all his limbs and dropped him in a pool of lava. Sisious was shocked he survived too. If you recall the fight, obi wan did try to use the force. Anny countered with the force. Remember yoda vs dooku? When their knowledge of the force is pretty equal they have to resort to sabets.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Jango can't fly so windu wins= context.
Obi wan under order not to kill jango= pathetic jedi can't even beat jango.

Do i understand that right?

1. Ultron flies
2. The difference between Ultron and Jango is a lot more vast than the difference between Vader and Obi Wan. Obi Wan can give Vader a fight. Ultron will walk all over Jango. Point is, Obi Wan's inability to subdue Jango should tell you just how difficult it will be for Vader to kill Ultron.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
To be fair he did cut off all his limbs and dropped him in a pool of lava. Sisious was shocked he survived too. If you recall the fight, obi wan did try to use the force. Anny countered with the force. Remember yoda vs dooku? When their knowledge of the force is pretty equal they have to resort to sabets. Kenobi didn't come over and deliver the death blow. If his force powers were that big of an advantage he'd easily own Jango without killing him.

But ultron isn't fighting a weak obi wan. He's fighting vader. Atat lifting, metal crushing, survived-freaking-lava vader.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
But ultron isn't fighting a weak obi wan. He's fighting vader. Atat lifting, metal crushing, survived-freaking-lava vader.

That's a not so clever tactic weak debaters often try to employ, they'll bring up lesser feats, sometimes even of a different character to try and deflect away from the feats of the actual character(s) in the match

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
But ultron isn't fighting a weak obi wan. He's fighting vader. Atat lifting, metal crushing, survived-freaking-lava vader. Vader was slower and less mobile. Vader needed a crew to save his life. He laid there like a pouty child. Ultron wrecks him. Get real.

How? Being vibranium doesn't mean you have instant tk resist. Even if vader can't crush him, he can easily bring him close enough to saber that guy.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
How? Being vibranium doesn't mean you have instant tk resist. Even if vader can't crush him, he can easily bring him close enough to saber that guy. Ultron is out of his league. You don't debate based off showings but based off wishful thinking. Vader count even best Ezra and Kanan.

No but he has beaten thousands of robots.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
No but he has beaten thousands of robots. That is Ultron but let's say Ultron Prime.

still a robot. still dies

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
still a robot. still dies Not by Vader. The guy was taken out by a few seconds of fl.

how? if ultron stays away, vader can just reflect everything back at him. If he gets close, he gets the saber.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
how? if ultron stays away, vader can just reflect everything back at him. If he gets close, he gets the saber. Based on ?

Vader isn't quick and went down to his son rather easily.

based on him blocking several blaster bolts fired at him and handling several trained sith and jedi in a saber match.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
How? Being vibranium doesn't mean you have instant tk resist. Even if vader can't crush him, he can easily bring him close enough to saber that guy.

So why can't Ultron use his Tk on Vadar which has better and stronger showings.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
based on him blocking several blaster bolts fired at him and handling several trained sith and jedi in a saber match. Which Sith and which Jedi ?

Count dooku and obi wan.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
So why can't Ultron use his Tk on Vadar which has better and stronger showings.

I honestly don't remember ultron having Tk. I thought it was SW.

Vader was able to block out Obi wan so theres that.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
Count dooku and obi wan. He was not suited Vader for either. In the suit Kenobi let himself lose. FFS.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I honestly don't remember ultron having Tk. I thought it was SW.

Vader was able to block out Obi wan so theres that.

Ultron seems to have some power over attractive and repulsive forces; it's more like magnetism than telekinesis, though.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
I honestly don't remember ultron having Tk. I thought it was SW.

Vader was able to block out Obi wan so theres that.

He had massive Tk

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
But ultron isn't fighting a weak obi wan. He's fighting vader. Atat lifting, metal crushing, survived-freaking-lava vader.

Weak Obi Wan? The only proper fight they had, Obi Wan best Anakin. And this is the Anakin that beat Dooku. Nothing weak about that.

Originally posted by FrothByte
You're trying too hard. Fact is Obi Wan was unable to use any force push/crush/choke maneuver to effectively nullify Jango. Too hard, really? Your statement is pure assumption with no facts. Proven by the fact that you ignore Obi Wan intentions and the fact that he was fighting two people.

Anyway your point is irrelevant, Obi Wan isn't Darth Vader. Concession accepted.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You were called out and admitted to trolling. You conceded already like a typical coward. Shame. Once again you make no sense. Try again.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Once again you make no sense. Try again. So you also admit you can't understand simple sentences, simpleton.

#youlose

Originally posted by Kotor3
Too hard, really? Your statement is pure assumption with no facts. Proven by the fact that you ignore Obi Wan intentions and the fact that he was fighting two people.

Anyway your point is irrelevant, Obi Wan isn't Darth Vader. Concession accepted.

Assumption with no facts? I'll tell you what's assumption:

Assuming that a light saber can cut through something as tough as Ultron
Assuming that Vader can force choke/crush something as tough as Ultron
Assuming that Vader can resist Ultron's weird robotic/magnetic TK
Assuming that Vader can block blasts as strong as what Ultron can dish out


Want some facts?

1. Ultron is strong enough to kill Vader with his bare hands
2. Ultron is strong enough to cut off a man's arm with his bare hands
3. Vader never fought anyone as tough or as strong as Ultron
4. There's no reason to think Ultron's TK won't work on Vader
5. It took a prolonged blast of Thor's lightning, Vision's infinity gem and IM's repulsors before Ultron got damaged. It is very doubtful that a lightsaber will damage him without any sort of prolonged contact.
6. A full fledged Jedi was unable to take down a non-force user who used technology against the Jedi.
7. Obi Wan defeated Anakin
8. Ultron can fly
9. Vader is not as nimble as Anakin
10. Ultron can simply blast the surrounding area around Vader

A lightsaber cut through blast shields that were "impossible" to get through.
Ultron is not pure vibranium and vader has crushed metals before and shown he can use the force to lift things that way seversl tonnes
I still can't find ultron's tk. What scene are you refering to?
A lightsaber can block other lightsabers, which can cut through pretty much anything. Its not that big of an assumption.

Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
A lightsaber cut through blast shields that were "impossible" to get through.
Ultron is not pure vibranium and vader has crushed metals before and shown he can use the force to lift things that way seversl tonnes
I still can't find ultron's tk. What scene are you refering to?
A lightsaber can block other lightsabers, which can cut through pretty much anything. Its not that big of an assumption.

A lightsaber needed prolonged contact with the blast door to cut through it IIRC. If Vader takes that much time to cut through Ultron he'll get his arms chopped off.

Ultron also took on a full hit from Mjolnir without any severe damage. Heck, IM's armor can take tank rounds and not get damaged, Ultron is tougher than that. I don't think Vader has crushed any metal that strong before. If I'm mistaken please cite an example.

Ultron's TK feats were when he fought IM in the tanker and during the train fight.

I agree that Vader can force lift Ultron. Problem is, Ultron can fly and is far stronger than anything Vader has tried to hold before. What happens when Ultron tries to fly while Vader is lifting him?

I don't doubt that the lightsaber can block Ultron's blast power. What I doubt is whether it can block Ultron's blast diameter. Ultron's blasts generate from his fingers, which means 4-5 streams at the same time creating a blast that's far thicker than the stander blaster bolts that Vader has blocked. It's a thicker stream than his lightsaber anyway. How's he going to block that?

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you also admit you can't understand simple sentences, simpleton.

#youlose I use to respect that you always came up with an argument no matter your pick and how people felt about it. Now your debating skills amount to nothing but name calling now.

Either come up with an argument or be quiet. I said Ultron should win, but Vader can also win. It is in my early post illiterate one. Try reading for once.

If you feel Vader would be stomp or has no chance of winning then prove it or concession accepted.

Any other post you make without proving my statement that Vader cannot win or will not be stomp is a concession.

Knowing that you can't I'm sure you are going to revert to name calling.

'Can cut through pretty much everything' no limits fallacy right there.