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http://i.imgur.com/DPhgzLj.jpg

No prep.
No BFR.

http://i.imgur.com/111hcfy.jpg

Realistically, what percentage of Cyttorak's power did Juggs have?

Validus.

Juggernaut wins.

Validus oneshots him.

Yep Validus won't even notice Juggy's attacks.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Validus oneshots him. Based on ?

Validus.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Juggernaut wins.

Based on?

Originally posted by spetznaz
Based on? Invulnerability and his showings, whoever you are.

spetz has been around for a long time.

Spetznas is a motormouth but he is smart.

Validus ftw.

Validus

Yeah i've noticed a disturbing trend here.
Lots if so and so wins with nothing in the way of why.
Makes for piss poor debates.
But hey, millennials.

Originally posted by Galan007
spetz has been around for a long time. I know I remember him for his emotional rants and his love of all things DC related.

He has had the same shitty sig for years.

Validus.

Juggernaut imo or stalemate.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know I remember him for his emotional rants and his love of all things DC related.

He has had the same shitty sig for years.

While we all know you for you're strong hate of all things that is DC and you're idiotic ways of debating.

Originally posted by SquallX
While we all know you for you're strong hate of all things that is DC and you're idiotic ways of debating. Try taking apart my argument not your personal feelings on me. Take your tampon out for a minute or two.

Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah i've noticed a disturbing trend here.
Lots if so and so wins with nothing in the way of why.
Makes for piss poor debates.
But hey, millennials.

Validus defeated pc kryptonians.

8th day Juggaernaut as hype as he gets he is not even close to that.

8th day juggernaut just looked good on his introductory comic after that subsequent 8th day comic related material was lacking at best. IMO

He did beat the Exemplers right and nearly knocked or killed Thor with a bear hug.

Yes that is remarkable but I think still lacks the Pre Crisis level feats

Juggernaut is known from tanking just about every blunt force trauma I think it would be the same here too. He is not going to lose via physical attacks.

Respectfully disagree. Sounds like a no limits fallacy argument.

Being dozens of times more powerful than pre crisis superboy is insane. Based on the comics I very much doubt 8th day Juggernaut will bring anything new to the table that a pre crisis kryptonian hasn't brought already

Juggernaur han never been beaten physically without pis. According to his own power set he is tireless and indestructible + he has a powerful healing factor and force field.

Is ok if you belive that 8th day juggernaut is more powerful than pre crisis Superboy. I just disagree

Originally posted by golem370
Juggernaut is known from tanking just about every blunt force trauma I think it would be the same here too. He is not going to lose via physical attacks.
Tell that to Onslaught who knocked him out with a punch.

Like I said pis. Rao I didn't say he wss more powerful but a well written Juggernaut should not be beaten physically not be cause he is more power but because he is suppose to be unstoppable.

Nothing is absolute in the comics. Save for Godblast which was due to his force-field there is nothing Juggernaut has done durability wise which post crisis Superman can't replicate.

Didn` t he k.o Stranger?

Alternate reality.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Realistically, what percentage of Cyttorak's power did Juggs have? anybody know?

Originally posted by Horrificus
anybody know?

I don't recall but IIRC the 8th day war was to see who was the most powerful god so I asume will be full power for the 8th day war.

But don't take my word for it. I read it a while ago and I don't remember everything.

Correction:

Just google it and it says a FRACTION of the power. Nothing especific

Originally posted by golem370
Juggernaut han never been beaten physically without pis. According to his own power set he is tireless and indestructible + he has a powerful healing factor and force field.
This is what i dont get at times..if we're (pretty obviously) giving credence to Validus' power set, why not Juggernaut's? They seem to match up pretty well.

Because they have to have away to have the heros win by making the vulnerable to something or dumb.

^^^i think i have to agree.
Like when you said:
Originally posted by golem370
...Juggernaut should not be beaten physically not be cause he is more power but because he is suppose to be unstoppable.
You acknowledged Validus' strength. Other posters not acknowledging Juggernaut's power set in return? Meh.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nothing is absolute in the comics. Save for Godblast which was due to his force-field there is nothing Juggernaut has done durability wise which post crisis Superman can't replicate. well, this might b tough for him to replicate...

http://i.imgur.com/W8lzwEp.jpg

The next problem is, Im pretty sure that the Exemplars had access to all of the power held by the Cyttorak and the others.
If that's so, Juggs will take this, regardless of Validus' being more powerful than multi-planet towing Superboy. That feat is basically microscopic when measured aganst Cyttorak, who is, basically, an entire dimension.

Was it the full totality of Cyttorak? Or a (high) portion?

Originally posted by Horrificus
well, this might b tough for him to replicate...
Whoa. What level Juggernaut is that?

Val wins. Easily.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84479/1645401-sa_superboy_can_pull_planets.jpg
http://s3d3.turboimg.net/t1/10870919_v2.jpg

nuts

Originally posted by golem370
Juggernaut is known from tanking just about every blunt force trauma I think it would be the same here too. He is not going to lose via physical attacks.

NOT lowballing, as he IS fighting an Exemplar - but 8th Day Juggy only 'narrowly' won against a character who is also using physical attacks:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/jug_8th_day_p30.jpg

So, again, I don't think it's a low showing at all. But to say he is 100% immune to physical attacks, when he only narrowly won against someone who just does physical attacks, seems iffy.

I've got to ask, has Validus ever beaten someone down to a sentient skeleton feuled by hate?
Because if that showing is 8th Day (not sure so i asked) or below, then this becomes a war of attrition, which Juggernaut might win.

At the very least, I would think Juggs would have to be able to stalemate a precrisis Kryptonian to have any chance against Val.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
NOT lowballing, as he IS fighting an Exemplar - but 8th Day Juggy only 'narrowly' won against a character who is also using physical attacks:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg102/Knowsbleed33/Battle/8th%20Day/jug_8th_day_p30.jpg

So, again, I don't think it's a low showing at all. But to say he is 100% immune to physical attacks, when he only narrowly won against someone who just does physical attacks, seems iffy.


Well the exemplers were magical powered characters too though I also or meant immune physical attacks.

Originally posted by golem370
Well the exemplers were magical powered characters too though I also or meant immune physical attacks.

She was hitting him with her staff - it was hardly Mjolnir. And the dialogue made ZERO reference to her magic hurting him - she was hitting his pressure points, which hurt him, and made reference to his skin etc. It was all physical.

I cant see Validus going for pressure point attacks.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
She was hitting him with her staff - it was hardly Mjolnir. And the dialogue made ZERO reference to her magic hurting him - she was hitting his pressure points, which hurt him, and made reference to his skin etc. It was all physical.

To Play Carvers Advocate:

But you see the magic coming out of her Staff, do you see the yellow energy every time she strikes Juggernaut! That's a hell of a magic mace, since it can hurt even the invulnerable Juggernaut, it might be well above Mjolnir, hell judging from the scan it is above Mjolnir!

Originally posted by Horrificus
well, this might b tough for him to replicate...

http://i.imgur.com/W8lzwEp.jpg

That is not 8th day Juggernaut, that is Trion Juggernaut

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Val wins. Easily.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84479/1645401-sa_superboy_can_pull_planets.jpg
http://s3d3.turboimg.net/t1/10870919_v2.jpg

nuts

It doesn't take a nasa scientist to figure who has the advantage in this match, IMO

But like Pr says: "to each his own"

Originally posted by riv6672
I cant see Validus going for pressure point attacks.
Not my point.

My point was that he is still susceptible to physical attacks. Blunt force physical trauma, whilst directed, and targeted, still affects him.

This was a counterpoint to golem, who said that going off his powerset, he would be tanking all blunt force attacks.

I never turned Validus into Shang Chi. Merely said that going off 'potential' and 'powerset' is wrong, when their 'powerlevel' shows otherwise.

Think Sodom Yat with a GL ring. AND the Ion power. On potential, and powerset (an amped GL Daxamite), quite different from the actual showings he had.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
To Play Carvers Advocate:

But you see the magic coming out of her Staff, do you see the yellow energy every time she strikes Juggernaut! That's a hell of a magic mace, since it can hurt even the invulnerable Juggernaut, it might be well above Mjolnir, hell judging from the scan it is above Mjolnir!

You now join Galan on ignore

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
To Play Carvers Advocate:

But you see the magic coming out of her Staff, do you see the yellow energy every time she strikes Juggernaut! That's a hell of a magic mace, since it can hurt even the invulnerable Juggernaut, it might be well above Mjolnir, hell judging from the scan it is above Mjolnir!
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://s3d3.turboimg.net/t1/10870919_v2.jpg
I guess this is a pressure point attack then, as the point of the scene is Superboy is under a lot of pressure.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Was it the full totality of Cyttorak? Or a (high) portion? i think it was all of his power. As a matter of fact, even though Cain opposed Cyttorak and fought the control he had over Cain, Cyttorak did nothing to limit or take back any of his power.

Got it.
Mine is, PPAs are a completely different animal from a ground and pound attack.
This was argued in a Batman vs Luke Cage thread here, where Cage, who can tank, or at least bounce back from, high level superhuman strength attacks, was in danger according to some, of falling to PPAs from whats basically a normal man.
Validus wont be fighting with the degree of skill necessary to exploit that type of comic book logic loophole.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
That is not 8th day Juggernaut, that is Trion Juggernaut nope.
That was actually regular Juggernaut, "a night in Spite", april 1997.

The trion and eighth day stories came in '99.

Originally posted by Horrificus
nope.
That was actually regular Juggernaut, "a night in Spite", april 1997.

The trion and eighth day stories came in '99.

I think you are correct, my bad

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I think you are correct, my bad no prob.
I just happen to be such a dork, that i spent lots of time gettin the info.

Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Val wins. Easily.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/84479/1645401-sa_superboy_can_pull_planets.jpg
http://s3d3.turboimg.net/t1/10870919_v2.jpg

nuts
You must admit this is really over the top and cheesy

Originally posted by Raisen
You must admit this is really over the top and cheesy the only way that feat can be more idiotic, is if he was dragging a line of giant stuffed animals through space.

I actually feel bad for Superboy and Validus fans, for being forced to view and circulate this image over and over.

I'm surprised the artist didn't add an airplane flying alongside him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85




You now join Galan on ignore

http://www.famousauthors.org/famous-authors/stephen-hawking.jpg

Originally posted by Raisen
You must admit this is really over the top and cheesy

Yes, sure, PC days, what do you expect.

Originally posted by Horrificus
the only way that feat can be more idiotic, is if he was dragging a line of giant stuffed animals through space.

I actually feel bad for Superboy and Validus fans, for being forced to view and circulate this image over and over.

I'm surprised the artist didn't add an airplane flying alongside him.
If I respected that character I would never use scans like that. I would rather lose a debate than sacrifice my dignity

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Was it the full totality of Cyttorak? Or a (high) portion? it was a contest between Cyttorak and the others. The avatars had access to the full power of thier masters, but they had some semblance of free-will. So, it was up to the avatars how well, or if they used all of the available power.

But, yes, they had access to all the power of the dieties.

Originally posted by riv6672
Yeah i've noticed a disturbing trend here.
Lots if so and so wins with nothing in the way of why.
Makes for piss poor debates.
But hey, millennials.

Fair enough. Validus is so durable characters on the level of PC Kryptonians get KO'ed just by flying into him, and he doesn't even notice them.

Originally posted by Raisen
You must admit this is really over the top and cheesy

It's also funny because Superboy seems blissfully unaware that dragging all those planets through space like that would destroy all life on them.

Originally posted by Horrificus
the only way that feat can be more idiotic, is if he was dragging a line of giant stuffed animals through space.

I actually feel bad for Superboy and Validus fans, for being forced to view and circulate this image over and over.

I'm surprised the artist didn't add an airplane flying alongside him. It was for kids in the 60's

Don't diss the Silver Age. It gave us gems like this comic cover:

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/105/256/original/jimmyaquaman.jpg

This makes it all worthwhile.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/PRE%20CRISIS%20EARTH%20ONE%20SUPERMAN/SUPER%20BABY/SUPER%20INVULNERABILITY/Superboy-182-3-03_zpsbc919ff7.jpg

Look how he's dressed and his hairstyle. It's like kids would forget who was in the book once they got past opening the cover.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/GOLDEN%20AGE%20EARTH%202%20SUPERMAN/worldsfinest014-01.jpg

This is the last one I post I couldn't find the Aquaman and the turtle one.

But this one is another gem:

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/GOLDEN%20AGE%20EARTH%202%20SUPERMAN/Action_058_01.jpg

Gah! Get back on topic!

I was always fond of this one:

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/Jimmy%20Olsen%2098.jpg

But yeah, we've established Superman will do anything to force his friends to fail at life.

Originally posted by Badabing
Gah! Get back on topic!

*cue comic cover of Batman and Superman forcing Robin and Jimmy to dig their own graves*

Originally posted by psycho gundam
It was for kids in the 60's thanks.
Sorry.
I mock what I do not understand. As a rule.

Originally posted by Horrificus
thanks.
Sorry.
I mock what I do not understand. As a rule.

Don't worry man, this is the same reason I punch infants in the face.

A refresher on Validus...

Silver Age Superboy states that Validus is "a DOZEN" times more powerful than himself:
http://i.imgur.com/IXLd6Ko.jpg

Validus demonstrates this superiority by stomping Superboy(literally):
http://i.imgur.com/mQHyolm.jpg
Hell, Superboy almost KO'd himself just by simply running into Val.

Here he restrains/overpowers Silver Age Mon-El with two fingers:
http://i.imgur.com/82634W1.jpg

Val also possessed energy attacks(ie. mental lightning) so potent that, even in a drastically weakened state, he was able to fend off a portion of a Sun-Eater:
http://i.imgur.com/eh30nQt.jpg

And back then, Sun-Eaters were powerful enough to destroy entire galaxies. In fact, the one Val forced to retreat had destroyed entire galaxies:
http://i.imgur.com/TVmHnbp.jpg

Fun page.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Think Sodom Yat with a GL ring. AND the Ion power. On potential, and powerset (an amped GL Daxamite), quite different from the actual showings he had.



Off topic but you made me wonder, what has he done? The only thing I can recall beyond losing to Superboy Prime is him surviving a couple blasts from the Anti-Monitor, when his Daxamite powers kicked in(but before the Ion upgrade). Well, he also got some lip service and followed by veterans despite being a rookie GL.

^ He also tanked a planetary explosion(pre-Ion), and re-energized a star.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ He also tanked a planetary explosion(pre-Ion), and re-energized a star.

I must have missed/forgotten the planetary explosion feat(auto-protect?). Star feat after Ion, I take it?

Originally posted by Delta1938
I must have missed/forgotten the planetary explosion feat(auto-protect?). Star feat after Ion, I take it? Well, Yat looked physically damaged after the explosion, so his auto-shields definitely didn't hold up. Here's the feat:
http://i.imgur.com/gmVOIP7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZiH5gXg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OfPNnRS.jpg
For context, that explosion was originally designed to destroy Mogo.

And yeah, the star feat occurred when he was Ion. Here's that:
http://i.imgur.com/8mbJJtc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/davab2y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GNv0B9q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m5MqDXg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gLrde6c.jpg
I guess he technically didn't 'reignite' the star. He transformed it from a red star to a yellow star. Pretty cool feat, but he sacrificed himself to do it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Well, Yat looked physically damaged after the explosion, so his auto-shields definitely didn't hold up. Here's the feat:
http://i.imgur.com/gmVOIP7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZiH5gXg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OfPNnRS.jpg
For context, that explosion was originally designed to destroy Mogo.

I must have forgotten that, thanks.

Originally posted by Galan007
And yeah, the star feat occurred when he was Ion. Here's that:
http://i.imgur.com/8mbJJtc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/davab2y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GNv0B9q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/m5MqDXg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gLrde6c.jpg
I guess he technically didn't 'reignite' the star. He transformed it from a red star to a yellow star. Pretty cool feat, but he sacrificed himself to do it.

huh Where's that one though? Is a cool feat, but at the same time doesn't make him look that great, to me.

That's because he wasn't great.

It's too bad, because Yat had SO much potential to be an epic character. I mean, a GL with the physical power of Superman? C'mon, how could you possibly go wrong with that combo? But somehow DC screwed him up royally, and when he fizzled out, he fizzled out hard.

Norma Jean style...

Originally posted by Galan007

http://i.imgur.com/mQHyolm.jpg
Hell, Superboy almost KO'd himself just by simply running into Val.
1) Find the year of publication of the issue

2) Find out the most powerful and recent American* (Iron curtain) Hydrogen bomb test to that and times it's energy output by a factor of 1,000

(Probably Castle Bravo due to the era and infamy of the test since it irradiated Japanese fisherrmen, however a lot of this stuff classified)

3) You know Superboy's "full force" attack strength.

Towing planets is one thing but in terms of using his actual battle potential you have to have something more applicable

I don't recall mentioning anything about planet-towing...

Not you but it's been thrown around for decades

Well its (the scan) pretty prominent throughout the thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
That's because he wasn't great.



But really, I would think, even though he's using it to alter the Sun, that the Ion power would've protected him long enough to survive it turning into yellow. He took off his Power Ring. Did it have to do with the lead in his system from his fight with SBP? I dunno if it was ever removed. What comic was that from?

Originally posted by Galan007
It's too bad, because Yat had SO much potential to be an epic character. I mean, a GL with the physical power of Superman? C'mon, how could you possibly go wrong with that combo? But somehow DC screwed him up royally, and when he fizzled out, he fizzled out hard.

Yeah he did. Too bad.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well its (the scan) pretty prominent throughout the thread. Prominent throughout the net

It's been the same cropped scan floating around here since I can remember

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Not you but it's been thrown around for decades Meh, a Guardian's most powerful attack was once likened to that of "a dozen hurricanes" or somesuch. Point: text-box narration cannot always be taken at face value--especially when displayed feats eclipse the narration in question.

Originally posted by Delta1938
What comic was that from? GLC #36-37 (2009)

Originally posted by Galan007
GLC #36-37 (2009)

Thanks!! Now we can stop with the off-topic stuff.

It was an interesting segue.

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, a Guardian's most powerful attack was once likened to that of "a dozen hurricanes" or somesuch. Point: text-box narration cannot always be taken at face value--especially when displayed feats eclipse the narration in question. It's case-by-case at the very least

Agreed.

Originally posted by Galan007
Well, Yat looked physically damaged after the explosion, so his auto-shields definitely didn't hold up. Here's the feat:
http://i.imgur.com/gmVOIP7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZiH5gXg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OfPNnRS.jpg
For context, that explosion was originally designed to destroy Mogo.


He actually destroyed Ranx which was a planet sized machine and tanked the black hole at the heart of it. You can see green energy destroying the machine.

It's an energy projection and durability feat.

He didn't sacrifice himself. He was alive when Krona extracted Ion from him. And why is this feat dissed so much? How many characters can turn a red star in a yellow star?

Yeah, I should have been more specific(and now I understand what Delta was asking above.) The star transmutation feat didn't kill Yat--he sacrificed himself in the sense that he had to remain within the star for it to stay yellow. If he ever separated from the star, it would become red again.

That said, Yat was removed from the star when Krona pulled the Ion entity from him.

Definitely better if he didn't die, but still seems low to me that he had to STAY in the star to keep it yellow. I dunno, I guess I expect more from what's supposed to be a significantly amped GL.

Originally posted by Galan007
A refresher on Validus...

Silver Age Superboy states that Validus is "a DOZEN" times more powerful than himself:
http://i.imgur.com/IXLd6Ko.jpg

Validus demonstrates this superiority by stomping Superboy(literally):
http://i.imgur.com/mQHyolm.jpg
Hell, Superboy almost KO'd himself just by simply running into Val.

Here he restrains/overpowers Silver Age Mon-El with two fingers:
http://i.imgur.com/82634W1.jpg

Val also possessed energy attacks(ie. mental lightning) so potent that, even in a drastically weakened state, he was able to fend off a portion of a Sun-Eater:
http://i.imgur.com/eh30nQt.jpg

And back then, Sun-Eaters were powerful enough to destroy entire galaxies. In fact, the one Val forced to retreat had destroyed entire galaxies:
http://i.imgur.com/TVmHnbp.jpg

Thanks for the Bump.