in ROTJ why was sidious so easily defeated by Vader?

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redpill
all vader did is pick him up with one hand and toss him down a reactor shaft.

for a supposedly all powerful sith lord the most powerful sith and force user in galactic history


that was weak.

why couldn't sidious break the grip of a one-handed vader, no struggle, and why couldn't he simply use the force to break his fall down the reactor shaft.

any plausible in-universe explanation? rolling on floor laughing

that sidious was so easily defeated tells me that by rotj, he's weaker than dooku, quinlan vos, et al laughing laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing

queeq
Why did they make the OT at all? Ridiculous...

Oh, and I saw a smudge on the left wall. Why wasn't there one on the right?

StiltmanFTW
He got caught by surprise and still ended Vader.

Lord Lucien
Because the Emperor was never supposed to be this Super Saiyan character with light speed reflexes and movements and wicked awesome saber skills. Nor was Vader. Or Luke. THey could do some cool shit, but Jesus Christ, they weren't superheros.

redpill
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Because the Emperor was never supposed to be this Super Saiyan character with light speed reflexes and movements and wicked awesome saber skills. Nor was Vader. Or Luke. THey could do some cool shit, but Jesus Christ, they weren't superheros. thats what he became tho.

Surtur
Because Sidious was too busy getting a boner over torturing Luke he didn't really realize what was going on until it was too late.

ares834
The question should be why was Palpatine killed so easily. The question is why does Palpatine move super fast and flip around like some maniac ninja in the prequels?

redpill
Originally posted by Surtur
Because Sidious was too busy getting a boner over torturing Luke he didn't really realize what was going on until it was too late. viagra huh

redpill
Originally posted by ares834
The question should be why was Palpatine killed so easily. The question is why does Palpatine move super fast and flip around like some maniac ninja in the prequels? why confused

in PQ he kills 4 jedi masters and council members

in rotj he gets picked up and tossed

ares834

Surtur
Originally posted by redpill
viagra huh

I'm serious, Sidious was so into his whole "being evil" thing that he threw himself completely into torturing this young jedi. He let his guard down and whoops got thrown down a shaft. Which I'm sure the energy in the shaft started effecting his body before he even hit the ground. He was an old dude who didn't expect his cyborg bodyguard to betray him. He thought he could turn Luke just like he turned Vader.

The only problem is he forgot the reason Vader turned: vagina. Vader had something to fight for, something to protect. Luke was ready to just die and take the Emperor with him. The man with nothing to lose is more dangerous then anything else.

So it comes down to arrogance. It's the same reason Anakin thought he could do all kinds of flips and shit near a dude with a laser sword and not suffer any serious harm.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by ares834
The question should be why was Palpatine killed so easily. The question is why does Palpatine move super fast and flip around like some maniac ninja in the prequels?
Vader was too fast and held him with thunder grip. Obviously he's just that powerful, being the most powerful Jedi and Sith now. smile

ares834
thumb up

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Vader was too fast and held him with thunder grip. Obviously he's just that powerful, being the most powerful Jedi and Sith now. smile

thunder one-hand grip

FreshestSlice
Canon fact, yes. thumb up

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Canon fact, yes. thumb up roll eyes (sarcastic) confused roll eyes (sarcastic) confused

sidious could have simply force pushed him away.

my answer is that sidious lost all his power. he was weak and frail. thats why he was so easily defeated.

senility. alzheimer's. osteoporosis

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
roll eyes (sarcastic) confused roll eyes (sarcastic) confused

sidious could have simply force pushed him away.

my answer is that sidious lost all his power. he was weak and frail. thats why he was so easily defeated.

senility. alzheimer's. osteoporosis



Palpatine affected the simple clothing of a simple man, but drew his powers of persuasion and control from the blackest depths of the dark side of the Force. While the Force has twisted his face, it has also sustained him well beyond his years, and even in his old age the Emperor remains a figure of terrible power.

Source: The Complete Visual Dictionary

Nah, weak and frail aren't the words here.

redpill
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Palpatine affected the simple clothing of a simple man, but drew his powers of persuasion and control from the blackest depths of the dark side of the Force. While the Force has twisted his face, it has also sustained him well beyond his years, and even in his old age the Emperor remains a figure of terrible power.

Source: The Complete Visual Dictionary

Nah, weak and frail aren't the words here.

yeah well you saw vader pick him and toss him.

his power of force lightening is strong

but his body is clearly frail

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by redpill
roll eyes (sarcastic) confused roll eyes (sarcastic) confused

sidious could have simply force pushed him away.

my answer is that sidious lost all his power. he was weak and frail. thats why he was so easily defeated.

senility. alzheimer's. osteoporosis
He can't do that while being crushed. Also Vader>Palpatine so pushing him isn't an option...

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
yeah well you saw vader pick him and toss him.

his power of force lightening is strong

but his body is clearly frail

The quote clearly proves you wrong. He was sustained by the force. Even in ROTS he was able to pick up Vader's corpse and jump to a cliff effortlessly.

redpill
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The quote clearly proves you wrong. He was sustained by the force. Even in ROTS he was able to pick up Vader's corpse and jump to a cliff effortlessly.

how do you reconcile what the quote says, which may not be a canon source, with what was actually depicted in the movie?

if that quote is true why was sidious so easily defeated?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
how do you reconcile what the quote says, which may not be a canon source, with what was actually depicted in the movie?

if that quote is true why was sidious so easily defeated?

Distraction and it is a canon source. I believe all the source BOKKS such as that are canon.

redpill
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Distraction and it is a canon source. I believe all the source BOKKS such as that are canon.

when was that book published?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
when was that book published?

2006 and it gets updated IIRC

redpill
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
2006 and it gets updated IIRC

not canon sorry.

the mystery remains how was sidious so easily defeated.

my answer - he was physically frail and weak and his powers declining due to advance age. he could easily be beaten in sabers, not force powers, by ezra or ahoska

FreshestSlice
It's because Darth Vader is canonically the most powerful Jedi and Sith of all time.

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's because Darth Vader is canonically the most powerful Jedi and Sith of all time. lucas said injured vader is only 80% sidious

Lord Lucien
"Lucas says" is no longer viable. Thank god.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
not canon sorry.

the mystery remains how was sidious so easily defeated.

my answer - he was physically frail and weak and his powers declining due to advance age. he could easily be beaten in sabers, not force powers, by ezra or ahoska

I'm sure the source books are all canon my friend. The fact files, Star Wars insider I believe can be considered canon, all the source books are valid. However choose what you will.

The actual correct answer is he was distracted. His powers didn't decline they would have increased actually. When you consider that there was plenty of knowledge inside the Jedi temple he never had access to, now that Yoda and mace are done he has complete access to study and use all the knowledge those holocrons may hold, and also with the growing empire, he could have found more dark side planets or more dark side knowledge. Sabers he wouldn't be beaten easily. That's retarded.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
"Lucas says" is no longer viable. Thank god.
Exactly. New Canon has spoken.

redpill
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm sure the source books are all canon my friend. The fact files, Star Wars insider I believe can be considered canon, all the source books are valid. However choose what you will.

The actual correct answer is he was distracted. His powers didn't decline they would have increased actually. When you consider that there was plenty of knowledge inside the Jedi temple he never had access to, now that Yoda and mace are done he has complete access to study and use all the knowledge those holocrons may hold, and also with the growing empire, he could have found more dark side planets or more dark side knowledge. Sabers he wouldn't be beaten easily. That's retarded.

to access jedi teachings requires tapping into the LIGHT side

which sidious cannot do.

you've just been rolling on floor laughing

FreshestSlice
Kylo uses Jedi and Dark Side teachings. You've just been wrong. Again.

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kylo uses Jedi and Dark Side teachings. You've just been wrong. Again.

kylo said

i feel the pulse of light.

sidious never said that in any canon source.

you just been redpilled rolling on floor laughing

FreshestSlice
Which has nothing to do with actually using it. Wrong again.

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which has nothing to do with actually using it. Wrong again.

how can you use what you is against your nature mad laughing

FreshestSlice
First you start by writing in complete, coherent sentences.

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
First you start by writing in complete, coherent sentences.

yoda describes how to use the force

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.


sidious cannot implement this account of the force

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
to access jedi teachings requires tapping into the LIGHT side

which sidious cannot do.

you've just been rolling on floor laughing

You mean to unlock the holocrons themselves I can agree to that since in TCW they needed a Jedi to open it or something like that. I'm sure Sidious had some Jedi locked up somewhere or found a new way to open them. Also this https://youtu.be/dATuq8O3920. 1:19-1:28 Sidious knows multiple aspects of the force not just the dark side. So yea Sidious can use lightside powers. Just choses not to.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by redpill
yoda describes how to use the force

For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.


sidious cannot implement this account of the force
I' sure Sidious can bs flowery language. He's done it several times before.

redpill
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
You mean to unlock the holocrons themselves I can agree to that since in TCW they needed a Jedi to open it or something like that. I'm sure Sidious had some Jedi locked up somewhere or found a new way to open them. Also this https://youtu.be/dATuq8O3920. 1:19-1:28 Sidious knows multiple aspects of the force not just the dark side. So yea Sidious can use lightside powers. Just choses not to.

per yoda,

to use the light side, you must embrace it

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I' sure Sidious can bs flowery language. He's done it several times before.

not just flowerly language. it describes a mindset, and the heart which obviously is the opposite of what yoda describes

FreshestSlice
Nope, it basically describes a bunch of bullshizzle, like everything else Yoda has ever said.

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope, it basically describes a bunch of bullshizzle, like everything else Yoda has ever said. you think yoda is full of bs laughing laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing rolling on floor laughing

FreshestSlice
He's a failure who basically watched the Order crumble, so yeah.

redpill
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He's a failure who basically watched the Order crumble, so yeah. laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing laughing laughing eek! smokin' why didn't luke stop kylo ren?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by redpill
per yoda,

to use the light side, you must embrace it

Wouldn't be the first time Yoda was wrong. Also the rule of two principles are to learn both sides of the force as to better be able to fight the Jedi.

Surtur
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's because Darth Vader is canonically the most powerful Jedi and Sith of all time.

I've always wanted to see some kind of Star Wars "What If" type story where Anakin reaches his full potential. Who knows they might of done it already.

sweersa
Double post, my bad!

sweersa
Maybe Palpatine slowed down a lot between III and VI.

It's sort of funny, Darth Vader put Palpatine in a similar situation he put Mace Windu years earlier.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by sweersa
Double post, my bad! This kid's a newb f*g.

sweersa
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
This kid's a newb f*g.

I guess so, one year after you were! big grin

Dark-Kenshin
Because Lucas himself never intended for any of these characters to be anywhere near as powerful as novels and comics try to portray them. Order 66 or Jango Fett being a credible threat makes no sense if these guys can move at sublight speeds.

Lord Lucien
Everyone moves at sublight speeds.



http://ocobiega.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Derp-logo.png

Dark-Kenshin
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Everyone moves at sublight speeds.



http://ocobiega.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Derp-logo.png As far as Lucas was concerned, nobody does; everybody is pretty much mid/upper tier street level. Hell, even basic mach speed is not really on the table. It's the novels, games and other adaptations that try to push the limit here.

Lord Lucien
Ze joke, you missed it.

quanchi112
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Because the Emperor was never supposed to be this Super Saiyan character with light speed reflexes and movements and wicked awesome saber skills. Nor was Vader. Or Luke. THey could do some cool shit, but Jesus Christ, they weren't superheros. They have become over exaggerated since the PT films thus why this doesn't sit well with the Star Wars faithful.

queeq
Well, mostly because Lucas changed his mind about a lot of things. During making the OT he stated that Yoda and Palpy weren't the kind of Force users that wielded lightsabers. Their knowledge of the Force and their powers were different. In the PT he is the one that turned them into superheroes, which clearly they weren't meant to be when Lucas made the OT.

Lord Lucien
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1263172/force-unleashed-2-vader-o.gif


I didn't know the Dark Phoenix was in Star Wars. That is so wicked f*cking sick, bruuuuhh.

relentless1
well, in story he was caught up in his own hubris and didn't notice Vaders turmoil while trying to KILL HIS SON

in the real world Lucas didn't have the tech to make the Jedi/Sith as powerful as he would have liked, hence why Dooku, a 100 year old man was able to do flips off of balconies and beat up on two young, powerful Jedi but old Ben could barley parry a blow from a stiff cyborg.

Lord Lucien
Originally posted by relentless1
well, in story he was caught up in his own hubris and didn't notice Vaders turmoil while trying to KILL HIS SON

in the real world Lucas didn't have the tech to make the Jedi/Sith as powerful as he would have liked, hence why Dooku, a 100 year old man was able to do flips off of balconies and beat up on two young, powerful Jedi but old Ben could barley parry a blow from a stiff cyborg. We... we all know why he couldn't. We also know why he claimed he didn't. This would have sounded a lot different had he the money and technology to pull off a special-effects bonanza PT-style from the get-go.

Would have sounded more like: "Special FX are the key to all this. A sci-fi story without special effects is a pretty boring thing."

He's good at spinning his limitation into credit.

queeq
Originally posted by relentless1
well, in story he was caught up in his own hubris and didn't notice Vaders turmoil while trying to KILL HIS SON

in the real world Lucas didn't have the tech to make the Jedi/Sith as powerful as he would have liked, hence why Dooku, a 100 year old man was able to do flips off of balconies and beat up on two young, powerful Jedi but old Ben could barley parry a blow from a stiff cyborg.

He wasn't caught up by story. He was caught up in his own mind when he changed everything he once created. Then it didn't mesh well anymore.

Read the excellent Making Of... book that came out the past three years, and you'll see how much Lucas changed his mind about SW, even about the very essentials.

quanchi112
He's weak and overconfident.

queeq
He didn't used to be. I still don't know what happened to him in the 90s that he changed so much.

quanchi112
Originally posted by queeq
He didn't used to be. I still don't know what happened to him in the 90s that he changed so much. He lost his hunger being atop the mountain.

relentless1
Originally posted by quanchi112
He lost his hunger being atop the mountain.

like Rocky 3!!

Lord Lucien
Or maybe he fought his own apprentice, like Rocky 5.



Eeeek.

quanchi112
Originally posted by relentless1
like Rocky 3!! The Rocky films have all the answers we seek.

Lord Lucien
OBUxIu7IGCA

chingchangwalla
The dark side is essentially a drug. When Palpatine was torturing Luke with his force lightning, he was so 'high' that he didn't even feel Vader pick him up. Upon being picked up, Palpatine's Force Lightning went through himself and Vader, damaging both severely. (probably paralysing himself) It should also be noted that Vader's grip is very strong thanks to Cybernetic enhancements and it would be no easy task escaping from his clutches!

NTJack0
He wasn't expecting his best friend, little orphan Ani to throw him down a shaft

queeq
And turn all sparkly...

brexit
Originally posted by queeq
He didn't used to be. I still don't know what happened to him in the 90s that he changed so much. i believe he changed after empire strikes back when he divorced his wife for saving his ass the second time and he came up with the brilliant idea of having ewoks.

He became a monster who wanted to change the ideas that werent his (everything that worked) and copy the ones he couldnt change (everything he didnt changed but over used, for example, obi wan and luke screaming NO when a someone died. Darth vader also did this....)

queeq
That's overstating it a bit. Lucas did a lot of good work after his divorce. It's basically when the digital age started and the dinosaurs looked great in Jurassic Park that form seemed to be more important to story. Which is a direct contradiction to his entire film making philosophy. But I doubt he sees it that way.

LukeStarkiller
Originally posted by redpill
all vader did is pick him up with one hand and toss him down a reactor shaft.

Ha, ha, like a Carry On film.

LukeStarkiller
Originally posted by redpill
you think yoda is full of bs laughing laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing rolling on floor laughing

You do know Yoda is a fictional character set in a fictional galaxy, don't you?
Someone states that a fictional character is full of bs and you follow that with several piss-taking smilies.
Why?
Explain your ridicule.
Explain what is so damn deep & enlightening about Yoda.

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