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Greetings everyone! As always all thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

Location: Malevolence Mag-Rail

All combatants in their prime for their respective selves/forms.

Team 1 stomps, lel.

Team 1.

Suppose I should specify that by "Prodigal Knight" I am referring to Revan by the end of KOTOR

I knew what you meant. Team 1 still stomps.

Alright fair enough, thank you for your opinion Freshest.

Yeah, this isn't exactly hard to figure out. What's Nihl even doing on this battlefield, honestly?

Prodigal Knight Revan can't stand up to Maul. Maul has the edge in force and lightsaber prowess.

Darth Nihl's the weak point, but he's also weak enough to give Team One the win.

Lol @ Revan stomping Maul

And where did anyone say Revan stomps Maul?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Team 1 stomps, lel.

Uhh, it says team?

Yeah, Barsenthor II is a pretty big threat.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Uhh, it says team? Right, I'm assuming Revan would be the one to take on Maul as the Barsenthor stomping him is even more lolworthy. I apologise however if I was mistaken.

You do see what I'm trying to say, right?

Lesse, can I think of an argument for team 2....?


Nope, not really. I'm totally with the consensus on this one.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Right, I'm assuming Revan would be the one to take on Maul as the Barsenthor stomping him is even more lolworthy. I apologise however if I was mistaken.
> thinks Malak is more powerful than Maul
> thinks Nihl will make or break it for this team

A guy who can oneshot a Skywalker is a weaklink? Now I've seen everything.

Maul being a significantly superior duelist to Malak is also kinda important.

Either way its far from a stomp.Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You do see what I'm trying to say, right? Yesh.

Oh, so Maul's dueling skills will make up for him being severely outmatched in power, according to you anyway, and his lackluster backup?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Oh, so Maul's dueling skills will make up for him being severely outmatched in power, according to you anyway, and his lackluster backup? Yes, actually.

First of all this idea that Maul is "severely outmatched" in the Force, when he's capable of ragdolling Kenobi, blitzing Savage, and surviving bisection is rather absurd. Revan is not dominating Maul is this category, nor will he have much opportunity when thoroughly pressed in sabers. And considering Maul's immense endurance capabilities, it's unlikely that Revan's offensive powers will do any lasting damage.

On the other hand, Maul is just better than KOTOR Revan as a duellist. Significantly better. And as far as Force augmentative physicals go, Maul has superhuman ability in that regard without drawing on the Force (see Maul: Lockdown), his TPM clone defeated Legends Vader through superior speed/agility and he has even pressed Sidious with his strength. So I don't see Revan overwhelming him in that department.

Yah, Maul could definitely defeat KOTOR Revan, and either way it will be a brutal engagement, not a stomp.

P.S. As far as his "lacklustre backup" is concerned, Darth Nihl is more than capable of contending with the Barsen'thor. As you would expect the third strongest member of the One Sith, who oneshotted Kol Skywalker and choked out Cade, to be.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes, actually.

First of all this idea that Maul is "severely outmatched" in the Force, when he's capable of ragdolling Kenobi, blitzing Savage, and surviving bisection is rather absurd. Revan is not dominating Maul is this category, nor will he have much opportunity when thoroughly pressed in sabers. And considering Maul's immense endurance capabilities, it's unlikely that Revan's offensive powers will do any lasting damage.

Personally, I don't think Malak is more powerful than Maul, you do. So the idea that Revan doesn't outstripe Maul in just about every Force related category would only make sense her given Malak's superiority as a duelist compared to Revan. And while ragdolling Kenobi is something that no one has ever done ever, and while Savage is the pinnacle of all dueling skill, I'm simply trying to understand your thoat process.

Given how N-Canon that comic seems now and how Maul obviously isn't stronger than Sidious with the completely Legends applicable TCW showing Sidious fending off both Maul and Savage at the same time, and the fact that Maul lost to Vader, I'm not sure why this matters.

Well that's settled. The ping-pong logic going on here has convinced me.

You mean the one that needed an army to back him with Kol and got destroyed along with Talon by Cade? No, he can't contend with the Barsen'thor.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Personally, I don't think Malak is more powerful than Maul, you do. So the idea that Revan doesn't outstripe Maul in just about every Force related category would only make sense her given Malak's superiority as a duelist compared to Revan. And while ragdolling Kenobi is something that no one has ever done ever, and while Savage is the pinnacle of all dueling skill, I'm simply trying to understand your thoat process.To be "severely outmatched" in the Force to such an extent that Maul's duelling skill becomes irrelevant and the fight a "stomp" would be the difference in power between Ventress & Dooku, ragdoll capability implied.

That is not what we are dealing with here. Revan may be firmly above Maul as a Force user in all comparable respects, but he's not outclassed.Naturally you can confirm this some kind of proof or reasoning.I don't recall claiming that Maul was stronger than Sidious lol. And as far as the TCW fight goes, the Brothers are described as straining Sidious with their strength in the novel depiction and was in part was what I was referring to.

And losing to Vader also doesn't at all detract from the fact he displayed superior agility.

Nice job overlooking his pre-prime Lockdown showings though i.e. his best ones.Slice it however way you want but Kol was hardly defenseless. And he didn't get stomped by Cade, he was defeated after a drawn out fight where Cade drew heavily on the dark side in the bowels I believe of a Sith temple.

He's also a better duelist than the Barsen'thor, so yes he can contend.

Yeah that Maul vs Vader fight is bullshit tbh. I've come across a source saying that never actually happened.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
To be "severely outmatched" in the Force to such an extent that Maul's duelling skill becomes irrelevant and the fight a "stomp" would be the difference in power between Ventress & Dooku, ragdoll capability implied.

That is not what we are dealing with here. Revan may be firmly above Maul as a Force user in all comparable respects, but he's not outclassed.

I never implied Revan would "stomp" Maul, and never have for that matter, so okay?

Ah. Not sure why this is a point in Maul's favor when he's fighting with the much stronger Savage, but fine.

It doesn't, but you claimed Vader was defeated, and he wasn't. It's also not that uncommon for someone to have superior agility and speed to Vader in Legends. Especially before his prime.

No, but he was kind of fighting off waves of Sith, which I hear is pretty distracting.

Your idea of a "drawn out fight" aside, does Nihl not use the Dark Side now? Cade uses the Dark Side constantly until the end of Legacy, where he is still using it as far as I know.

Why would the Barsen'thor duel him when s/he'd just overwhelm with the Force?And considering the Barsen'thor at their weakest dealt with an opponent far more powerful than them given the circumstance, I'm not sure how Nihl is a better duelist.

Barsen'thor would annihilate Nihl before Maul defeated Revan, or Revan would beat Nihl before the Maul vs. Barsen'thor fight ends, so either way Team 1 wins.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes, actually.

First of all this idea that Maul is "severely outmatched" in the Force, when he's capable of ragdolling Kenobi, blitzing Savage, and surviving bisection is rather absurd. Revan is not dominating Maul is this category, nor will he have much opportunity when thoroughly pressed in sabers. And considering Maul's immense endurance capabilities, it's unlikely that Revan's offensive powers will do any lasting damage.

On the other hand, Maul is just better than KOTOR Revan as a duellist. Significantly better. And as far as Force augmentative physicals go, Maul has superhuman ability in that regard without drawing on the Force (see Maul: Lockdown), his TPM clone defeated Legends Vader through superior speed/agility and he has even pressed Sidious with his strength. So I don't see Revan overwhelming him in that department.

Yah, Maul could definitely defeat KOTOR Revan, and either way it will be a brutal engagement, not a stomp.

P.S. As far as his "lacklustre backup" is concerned, Darth Nihl is more than capable of contending with the Barsen'thor. As you would expect the third strongest member of the One Sith, who oneshotted Kol Skywalker and choked out Cade, to be.

Maul isn't replicating Revan's Star Forge slaughter. He's not so far above Malak that he could beat him greatly amped, multiple times and after fighting through that level of opposition.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
A guy who can oneshot a Skywalker is a weaklink? Now I've seen everything.

Compared to the Barsen'thor. She did beat an ancient sith lord who was amped by hundreds of Jedi Masters. While weakened. After fighting through legions of troops and alchemically enhanced soldiers. After tanking an explosion that obliterated a blast door to the face. After defeating her possessed Jedi Master. After giving said master some of her power. In Act 1.

(I think I got that right)

I'm sure Beni has a good argument for Nihl being a better duelist than the Barsen'thor that doesn't involve Kol and Cade's last name being Skywalker.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Oh, so Maul's dueling skills will make up for him being severely outmatched in power, according to you anyway, and his lackluster backup? How is he outmatched in power? What does End of Kotor Revan really have in his force arsenal thats gonna completely obliterate Maul?

Maul's a pretty huge powerhouse in the force as well, don't forget.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yes, actually.

First of all this idea that Maul is "severely outmatched" in the Force, when he's capable of ragdolling Kenobi, blitzing Savage, and surviving bisection is rather absurd. Revan is not dominating Maul is this category, nor will he have much opportunity when thoroughly pressed in sabers. And considering Maul's immense endurance capabilities, it's unlikely that Revan's offensive powers will do any lasting damage.

On the other hand, Maul is just better than KOTOR Revan as a duellist. Significantly better. And as far as Force augmentative physicals go, Maul has superhuman ability in that regard without drawing on the Force (see Maul: Lockdown), his TPM clone defeated Legends Vader through superior speed/agility and he has even pressed Sidious with his strength. So I don't see Revan overwhelming him in that department.

Yah, Maul could definitely defeat KOTOR Revan, and either way it will be a brutal engagement, not a stomp.
I think that you underestimate Revan (at the end of story arc of KoTOR) way too much...

Originally posted by Beniboybling
P.S. As far as his "lacklustre backup" is concerned, Darth Nihl is more than capable of contending with the Barsen'thor. As you would expect the third strongest member of the One Sith, who oneshotted Kol Skywalker and choked out Cade, to be.
So Darth Nihl > First Son?

Also, Darth Nihl cheap-shotted Kol Skywalker from behind.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
How is he outmatched in power? What does End of Kotor Revan really have in his force arsenal thats gonna completely obliterate Maul?
- A master of both Light and Dark Sides of the Force?
- Most powerful Force-user in the galaxy with exception of Valkorion?

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Maul's a pretty huge powerhouse in the force as well, don't forget.
He have decent Force abilities but I wouldn't hype him as a huge powerhouse.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- A master of both Light and Dark Sides of the Force?
- Most powerful Force-user in the galaxy with exception of Valkorion?

What? Endgame Revan is not a master of the dark side. He barely remembers being a Sith Lord.

Again, what? We're talking about KOTOR Revan here, lad. He's no where near Valkorion at this point.

Revan had his "new understanding" of the Force at the end of KotOR as noted in the novel, and Scourge held him above all others in the Empire.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
What? Endgame Revan is not a master of the dark side. He barely remembers being a Sith Lord.
He visited Korriban and completed Sith trails.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Again, what? We're talking about KOTOR Revan here, lad. He's no where near Valkorion at this point.
Revan, at this point, was:

1. Most powerful member of the Jedi Order
2. Champion of Light
3. Stronger then ever before

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He visited Korriban and completed Sith trails.


Revan, at this point, was:

1. Most powerful member of the Jedi Order
2. Champion of Light
3. Stronger then ever before

The fact that he completed hs trails does not mean he is a master of the dark side. He was always holding back, he never actually basked in darkness or anything. He was a pretend Sith. Being a master of the dark side means you have nothing to hold you back, you have no morals, you want power, control, you manipulate, you murder, you're merciless. Revan at no point during his trails was he even close to this.

1. Does not mean he was even close to Valkorion.
2. So? Satele was also a Champion of the Light. Does that mean she's on par with Valkorion?
3. So? Endgame KOTOR Revan is still not the most powerful version of himself, not by a long shot and no where near Valkorion.

1. He never was.

2. He never was anyways.

3. He never was or would become.