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Naruto can't use any of Kurama's chakra that isn't inherently mixed with his own. In other words, no chakra modes or biju forms. Kurama is, however, allowed to gather Senjutsu chakra for him like usual.

Sasuke can't use any of his Mangekyou Sharingan techniques, nor can he use his upper-class Rinnegan powers. (In other words, he can only use powers available to him when his Rinnegan isn't active with tomoe)

Who wins?

Sasuke teleports his sword into Naruto.

kruemelmonsteryn0

Something would already need to be stuck inside Naruto for him to switch his sword with it.

Or he just does it the way he did it against Madara.

Or just replaces his sword with Naruto's headband.

Sasuke didn't warp it inside of Madara, he switched places with it and Madara ran into it at full speed.

Originally posted by Kento
Or just replaces his sword with Naruto's headband.


I'm half surprised you haven't bashed Sasuke.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sasuke didn't warp it inside of Madara, he switched places with it and Madara ran into it at full speed.

I know. What's stopping him from doing the same thing if and when Naruto tries to get close to him?

Also, don't you think that base Naruto is at a physical disadvantage here given that Sasuke seems to be physically comparable to BM Naruto?

I don't think KCM Naruto is that much faster/ stronger than SM Naruto

Oh my bad, never saw that Sage Mode was allowed. Also, I presume Chibaku Tensei is not allowed?

Anyway, KCM Naruto probably isn't that much faster than SM Naruto, and I think KCM is physically weaker.
BM Naruto seems to be though.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

I'm half surprised you haven't bashed Sasuke.
oh right need to change that.

Sauske would lose cause he is a stupid whiny emo who hasn't won a fight ever!!!!

But seriously with all their abilities in play Sasuke would probably win. With these stipulation Sasuke.. Probably still wins

I feel like Naruto's nerfed a lot more than Sasuke. Kurama's chakra is a huge part of his arsenal. Doesn't help that Sasuke was shown to be physically comparable to BM Naruto.

Yea, just getting rid of Sasukes most hax powers doesn't keep his speed and strength down. Or even his precog. Meanwhile Naruto loses a lot

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, just getting rid of Sasukes most hax powers doesn't keep his speed and strength down. Or even his precog. Meanwhile Naruto loses a lot

Sasuke's speed, strength, and precog aren't superior to Naruto's, really.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sasuke's speed, strength, and precog aren't superior to Naruto's, really. Not when Naruto's able to use all his abilities and modes. Sasuke's eyes don't amp physical stats. While Naruto's kyuubi modes and every other mode does amp his stats.

Sure, and when he does he's physically superior. He's the one who inherited the Sage's "body", remember?

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, just getting rid of Sasukes most hax powers doesn't keep his speed and strength down. Or even his precog. Meanwhile Naruto loses a lot

They should be equals in the precog department. Naruto's Sage Mode precog is better than his KCM precog, and when they were fighting Obito, their precog capabilities were shown to be similar, if not the same. Naruto was in Bijuu Sage Mode, and Sasuke was using EMS. I think Sasuke's precog increases when he uses EMS.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Sure, and when he does he's physically superior. He's the one who inherited the Sage's "body", remember?

He should be, but your argument takes a huge hit because of BSM Naruto and Sasuke being portrayed as physically comparable in Boruto.

Ergo, either Bijuu/Kurama Sage Mode does not amp Naruto that much, or Sasuke is physically superior to Base Naruto, and probably Sage Naruto.

Yes.



Yes.



No.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yes.



Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yes.


No.

Please explain.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
They should be equals in the precog department. Naruto's Sage Mode precog is better than his KCM precog, and when they were fighting Obito, their precog capabilities were shown to be similar, if not the same. Naruto was in Bijuu Sage Mode, and Sasuke was using EMS. I think Sasuke's precog increases when he uses EMS.
. I don't remember Naruto having precog. O.o

http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-555-page-13.html
This comes off as a form of precog, kinda like a spidey-sense.

This implies that while he is using Kurama Sage Mode, his reactions are on par with Sasuke's, who is using his EMS.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
This implies that while he is using Kurama Sage Mode, his reactions are on par with Sasuke's, who is using his EMS. I wouldn't really call that proof of precog. More like he's able to see Obito's attacks, and that they have a tell way of moving for him to time with.

That's true, but meh, he has Sage Mode active, and Sage Mode seems to give him some form of precog.

But very different than Sharingan type that seems to be able to see where you'll attack will be. Course Gai and Byakugan have a similar ability also. Though Gais is from training to fight the Sharingan

Sage Mode has similar effects. Instead of seeing it, his senses become one with nature. He can feel the direction of movements in the air around him, and respond accordingly. He reacted to Obito's speed just as well as Sasuke.

Originally posted by Kento
But very different than Sharingan type that seems to be able to see where you'll attack will be. Course Gai and Byakugan have a similar ability also. Though Gais is from training to fight the Sharingan

Well, yeah, it's not visual based, but it's still precog. Like Kabuto, who dodged Sasuke's Susanoo arrow even though he couldn't see.

Byakugan has precog?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, yeah, it's not visual based, but it's still precog. Like Kabuto, who dodged Sasuke's Susanoo arrow even though he couldn't see.

Byakugan has precog? It has the ability to interpret body language, not precognition per se but close to what the sharingan does anyway. Which would make sense why Neji hasn't shown speed like Lee and won constantly.

Originally posted by Kento
It has the ability to interpret body language, not precognition

Which is exactly what the Sharingan does.

Originally posted by Kento
It has the ability to interpret body language, not precognition per se but close to what the sharingan does anyway. Which would make sense why Neji hasn't shown speed like Lee and won constantly.

I can't remember that. Where was it stated? The Hinata fight?

Kaiten seems to be a good defence against raw speed.

Without reading the thread first:

Always thought Naruto could have beaten, if not killed, Sasuke at any time post time skip, but for angst and a misplaced loyalty.


Put, say, Luffy in Naruto's body, and watch the epic beat down.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I can't remember that. Where was it stated? The Hinata fight?

Kaiten seems to be a good defence against raw speed. He was able to 'read' Hinatas mind by body language. Interpreting body language would lead to knowing how it move in a fight.

Yea, but not if he couldn't get it off in time or raw speed tricked him and faked out for him to release his energy and attack after since the range is striking distance. Unless its Hiashi then its a huge range.

Originally posted by cdtm
Without reading the thread first:

Always thought Naruto could have beaten, if not killed, Sasuke at any time post time skip, but for angst and a misplaced loyalty.


Put, say, Luffy in Naruto's body, and watch the epic beat down.

Why did you intentionally not read the thread's OP? It's kinda important to the match.

Originally posted by Kento
He was able to 'read' Hinatas mind by body language. Interpreting body language would lead to knowing how it move in a fight.

Yea, but not if he couldn't get it off in time or raw speed tricked him and faked out for him to release his energy and attack after since the range is striking distance. Unless its Hiashi then its a huge range.

That's part Byakugan (catching the rapid eye-movement), and part Neji knowing what exactly those eye movements mean. The Byakugan doesn't have an built-in body language reader that would allow the user to predict movements. Neji had to analyse those movements himself.
Also, remember, Neji's ridiculously special. He was able to learn high-level Byakugan techs just by observing them.

Well, either way, he's definitely fast enough to react to and counter Lee. Poor Lee.

Originally posted by cdtm
Always thought Naruto could have beaten, if not killed, Sasuke at any time post time skip, but for angst and a misplaced loyalty.


Yeah no.

Insight is a byakugan ability. Not something neji learned. And knowing your opponents body language even if you have to analyze it in your head is a way to predict how they would move. Its one reason long range fighters have a big advantage against neji. That's why I said its not precog per se but like Gais ability to fight an opponent and just look at their feet, without the need to train endlessly to develop. Its a lesser version of the sharingans precog. Which is just reading body language really

Yes, insight is a Byakugan ability, but that insight is specific to chakra and vision, and not body movements. It can track movements, but it cannot auto-analyse those movements and predict the person's next movement(s) from that.
Analysing your opponent's body language is Neji's skill. None of the other Hyuugas have demonstrated that ability afaik, but no reason they shouldn't.
And we know Neji would be skilled at analysing body movements because he's the only Hyuuga who could learn their techniques via observation.

It's just like the Hyuuga focusing their Gentle Fist style on the Byakugan's ability to see the Tenketsu. Gentle Fist is not an ability of the Byakugan, but the Hyuuga. Neji analysing Hinata's body language is similarly Neji's skill which is aided/based on a Byakugan ability.

Or Itachi predicting Kabuto's movements when he could not see Kabuto, because he knew what Kabuto would likely do.

Whereas the Sharingan's precog is in-built and doesn't require analysis from the user.

So you did hit the nail on the head when you compared it to Gai's ability to track movements whilst looking at his opponent's feet. Because it's really Neji's ability to analyse body language, not the Byakugan's.

More important than either Naruto or Sasuke: DP, read Magi. =3

Right, sorry mate, I keep forgetting.

It even has it's own Sasko(a mix of Sasuke and Zuko, can't possibly go wrong!)

Hmm. Does it have it's own Phoenix King Ozaitachi?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hmm. Does it have it's own Phoenix King Ozaitachi?

It does.

I see there are anime series out. Anime, manga or both?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
I see there are anime series out. Anime, manga or both?

The anime only has two seasons and ends before some of the neat arcs that can play out. It also apparently does stuff with Alibaba's character that I don't like but I haven't watched it myself. The prequel manga is getting an anime instead of a proper continuation.

But if you wanna do both you're free to do so lol. They animated some of the fights rather well imo.

How did Magi get into this thread?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
How did Magi get into this thread?

Because Hopes and Dreams can SAVE The World

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Yes, insight is a Byakugan ability, but that insight is specific to chakra and vision, and not body movements. It can track movements, but it cannot auto-analyse those movements and predict the person's next movement(s) from that.
Analysing your opponent's body language is Neji's skill. None of the other Hyuugas have demonstrated that ability afaik, but no reason they shouldn't.
And we know Neji would be skilled at analysing body movements because he's the only Hyuuga who could learn their techniques via observation.

It's just like the Hyuuga focusing their Gentle Fist style on the Byakugan's ability to see the Tenketsu. Gentle Fist is not an ability of the Byakugan, but the Hyuuga. Neji analysing Hinata's body language is similarly Neji's skill which is aided/based on a Byakugan ability.

Or Itachi predicting Kabuto's movements when he could not see Kabuto, because he knew what Kabuto would likely do.

Whereas the Sharingan's precog is in-built and doesn't require analysis from the user.

So you did hit the nail on the head when you compared it to Gai's ability to track movements whilst looking at his opponent's feet. Because it's really Neji's ability to analyse body language, not the Byakugan's.

The thing is, nobody seems surprised he can read Hinata. And while 99% of them there no nothing about the Byakugan you do have Lee, Tenten, and Kurenai. Who say nothing.

Then TenTen says here http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/101/7 that with the Byakugan he can sense attacks. So its a Byakugan ability. So it does have some type of spidey sense. Kaitens effectiveness is also related to the spidey sense ability. They pretty much based their fighting style on things the Byakugan does. And most of what we know of the style and eyes is all Neji but he isn't unique except in the fact he is the most genius of the genius genin.





Also I couldn't make it through the first few episodes of Magi.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
The anime only has two seasons and ends before some of the neat arcs that can play out. It also apparently does stuff with Alibaba's character that I don't like but I haven't watched it myself. The prequel manga is getting an anime instead of a proper continuation.

But if you wanna do both you're free to do so lol. They animated some of the fights rather well imo.

Cool, I'll check both out. Manga first (it's still going on right?) then the anime.

Originally posted by Kento
The thing is, nobody seems surprised he can read Hinata. And while 99% of them there no nothing about the Byakugan you do have Lee, Tenten, and Kurenai. Who say nothing.

Then TenTen says here http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/101/7 that with the Byakugan he can sense attacks. So its a Byakugan ability. So it does have some type of spidey sense. Kaitens effectiveness is also related to the spidey sense ability. They pretty much based their fighting style on things the Byakugan does. And most of what we know of the style and eyes is all Neji but he isn't unique except in the fact he is the most genius of the genius genin.





Also I couldn't make it through the first few episodes of Magi.

Probably because they know he's a genius, or probably because they know Hinata is nervous, or probably because they themselves can't really see her eye movements?

Seeing can equal sensing, you know. Sight is a sense after all.
If he can see all around him for a far range, he can sense the attacks around him that take place long before they hit him. And we already know the Byakugan helps track fast movements.

Eh, he is unique amongst the Hyuuga in that he learned their techniques via observation, so his skills of observation are superior to theirs.

Haha, the first time, I couldn't make it past the few chapters of Magi. But I'm gonna give it another try. I want to get into another manga but there's too many choices.

Originally posted by Kento
The thing is, nobody seems surprised he can read Hinata. And while 99% of them there no nothing about the Byakugan you do have Lee, Tenten, and Kurenai. Who say nothing.

Then TenTen says here http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/101/7 that with the Byakugan he can sense attacks. So its a Byakugan ability. So it does have some type of spidey sense. Kaitens effectiveness is also related to the spidey sense ability. They pretty much based their fighting style on things the Byakugan does. And most of what we know of the style and eyes is all Neji but he isn't unique except in the fact he is the most genius of the genius genin.





Also I couldn't make it through the first few episodes of Magi.

You monster. I don't judge you for dating DDM, don't judge my manga. D:

Also to bring this back on topic: Sasuke obviously wins.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Cool, I'll check both out. Manga first (it's still going on right?) then the anime.



Probably because they know he's a genius, or probably because they know Hinata is nervous, or probably because they themselves can't really see her eye movements?

Seeing can equal sensing, you know. Sight is a sense after all.
If he can see all around him for a far range, he can sense the attacks around him that take place long before they hit him. And we already know the Byakugan helps track fast movements.

Eh, he is unique amongst the Hyuuga in that he learned their techniques via observation, so his skills of observation are superior to theirs.

Haha, the first time, I couldn't make it past the few chapters of Magi. But I'm gonna give it another try. I want to get into another manga but there's too many choices.

Yes the manga is still going, as is the neat little prequel manga(this is one of those series where there is a perfect setup for that kind of thing).

I mean Naruto doesn't have the courage to do this with it's Sasuke:

blvu5XdYX34

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You monster. I don't judge you for dating DDM, don't judge my manga. D:

Also to bring this back on topic: Sasuke obviously wins.
don't ruin my secrets! And the manga could probably be better than the anime. I have been told the first few episodes are rough but when you get thru its better. I got to Aladdin and Ali Baba meeting again... But that's about it. And I kind of didn't actually pay attention to that episode.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Cool, I'll check both out. Manga first (it's still going on right?) then the anime.



Probably because they know he's a genius, or probably because they know Hinata is nervous, or probably because they themselves can't really see her eye movements?

Seeing can equal sensing, you know. Sight is a sense after all.
If he can see all around him for a far range, he can sense the attacks around him that take place long before they hit him. And we already know the Byakugan helps track fast movements.

Eh, he is unique amongst the Hyuuga in that he learned their techniques via observation, so his skills of observation are superior to theirs.

Haha, the first time, I couldn't make it past the few chapters of Magi. But I'm gonna give it another try. I want to get into another manga but there's too many choices. but she makes a distinction of sight and him sensing attacks and that he uses kaiten at the last possible second. He may have learned by watching but he also practiced them to learn them. He didn't just see them once and know. Unlike another certain eye jutsu..*coughsharingancough*. That's why he is a genius. Perfecting a style alone. Or with TenTens help but still she was just there to throw weapons. That's probably the only reason she can mass summon weapons.

You got as far as Sinbad? Dang. He's one of the best parts and that particular arc is when Magi picks up steam. Honestly I love Magi mostly for the world building and I have no idea how well the anime translates that. In less than 300 chapters I know more about the world than I ever did in Naruto.

Also the Byakugan does seem to give a bit of precognition but obviously not as much as your average Sharingan. This makes sense. The Byakugan gives one almost omnipresent sight of the battlefield and lets one see through opponents. However with the "sight" divided between both things it obviously isn't as focused as a Sharingan, which seems to excel at 1v1 to the point where Chiyo considers fighting a Sharingan alone to just be stupid.

Whenever the Byakugan is being highlighted it is either the ability to see chakra points or the ability to react to multiple targets(see pretty much every Neji fight past Hinata) while the Sharingan gets more illusion focused moments and better precog showings(dodging A).

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You got as far as Sinbad? Dang. He's one of the best parts and that particular arc is when Magi picks up steam. Honestly I love Magi mostly for the world building and I have no idea how well the anime translates that. In less than 300 chapters I know more about the world than I ever did in Naruto.
. was Sinbad in it? Last thing I really remember is the warrior air princess fighting the general who tried to start a war and take over. Then some more episodes played I may have played yugioh online instead of watching. Then end of episode Ali Baba finally returns to the show and credits

Ah. Maybe the show moved it forward.

Like I said I didn't pay attention to the episode. It's was literally the first episode after Magi leaves the tribe people so he could have been in it. Haha I just know the ending of the episode not the rest of it

Originally posted by AuraAngel
Yes the manga is still going, as is the neat little prequel manga(this is one of those series where there is a perfect setup for that kind of thing).

I mean Naruto doesn't have the courage to do this with it's Sasuke:

blvu5XdYX34



Sasko's got some serious inferiority complexes.
Is that pink haired girl the MaiSakura of Magi? vin

Originally posted by Kento
but she makes a distinction of sight and him sensing attacks and that he uses kaiten at the last possible second. He may have learned by watching but he also practiced them to learn them. He didn't just see them once and know. Unlike another certain eye jutsu..*coughsharingancough*. That's why he is a genius. Perfecting a style alone. Or with TenTens help but still she was just there to throw weapons. That's probably the only reason she can mass summon weapons.

Eh, I still do not see it as a form of precog provided by the Byakugan at all. Still think Neji is using his Byakugan's visionary capabilities to see attacks long before they hit him.
And since the Byakugan can see chakra, he could also be doing what Obito did here:
http://www.mangastream.to/naruto-chapter-642-page-11.html

Are you sure it was just training that Neji & Tenten were doing together? vin

Originally posted by AuraAngel
You got as far as Sinbad? Dang. He's one of the best parts and that particular arc is when Magi picks up steam. Honestly I love Magi mostly for the world building and I have no idea how well the anime translates that. In less than 300 chapters I know more about the world than I ever did in Naruto.

Also the Byakugan does seem to give a bit of precognition but obviously not as much as your average Sharingan. This makes sense. The Byakugan gives one almost omnipresent sight of the battlefield and lets one see through opponents. However with the "sight" divided between both things it obviously isn't as focused as a Sharingan, which seems to excel at 1v1 to the point where Chiyo considers fighting a Sharingan alone to just be stupid.

Whenever the Byakugan is being highlighted it is either the ability to see chakra points or the ability to react to multiple targets(see pretty much every Neji fight past Hinata) while the Sharingan gets more illusion focused moments and better precog showings(dodging A).

Damn, you've managed to bring up Magi, Chiyo and Avatar in one thread.


Rukia on the way?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Sasko's got some serious inferiority complexes.
Is that pink haired girl the MaiSakura of Magi? vin

He also becomes one vile sonuvabitch.

She's not a bored teenager with no problems like Mai. She does have Sakura levels of super strength but instead of being whiny she's mostly just confused about things. She's similar to Hinata in terms of quietness but her reasons are a might bit more understandable.



Well I mean if you insist~