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ok rank these individuals on the lightsaber skills

rots darth sidious
rots anakin skywalker
rots yoda
mace windu
count dooku
rots kenobi
general grievous
asajj ventress
quinlan vos
cin drallig
depa billaba
darth maul
sora bulq

im not sure about the rest of them but i would rank the top ones like this.

sidious
yoda
windu/dooku
windu/ dooku

Yoda
Palpatine
Mace Windu
Anakin Skywalker
Count Dooku
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Darth Maul
Depa Billaba (Legends)
Asajj Ventress
General Grievous
Quinlan Vos (Legends)
Sora Bulq
Cin Drallig

Pure technical skill?

Count Dooku.
RotS Kenobi.
General Grievous.
Mace Windu.
RotS Anakin Skywalker/Asajj Ventress/Darth Maul.
Depa Bilaba.
Sora Bulq.
Cin Drallig.

I have no idea where to place Sidious, Yoda or Quinlan Vos in technical skill. All I know is Yoda is above Sidious here.

idk, im leaning toward sidious being the better saber fighter, but barely. but both are better than dooku.

and i would put quinlan above them all except the obvious ones, maul, and maybe depa and grievous

Originally posted by Darth Demenos
ok rank these individuals on the lightsaber skills

rots darth sidious
rots anakin skywalker
rots yoda
mace windu
count dooku
rots kenobi
general grievous
asajj ventress
quinlan vos
cin drallig
depa billaba
darth maul
sora bulq
Here:

01. Mace Windu
02. Yoda
03. Palpatine
04. Obi-Wan Kenobi
05. Quinlan Vos (Canon)
06. Anakin Skywalker
07. Count Dooku
08. Darth Maul
09. Sora Bulq (Legends)
10. Cin Drallig (Legends)
11. General Grievous
12. Depa Billaba

Tulak Hord
Who F*cking Cares.

RotS Sidious/Yoda
Obi Wan
Vos/Dooku/Windu
Darth Maul/Anakin
Ventress
Bulq
Drallig
Grievous
Depa
I guess

Yoda is not above Sidious lol

Sidious is the most skilled duelist listed here.

Originally posted by Sinious
Yoda is not above Sidious lol

Sidious is the most skilled duelist listed here.


Yeah that's why Sidious disarmed Yoda and not the other way around...oh wait...

Anyhow, my list:

Yoda
Sidious
Mace
Dooku
Anakin
Kenobi
Maul
Vos (DD)
Ventress
Vos (Legends)
Sora
Grievous
Depa
Cin

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yeah that's why Sidious disarmed Yoda and not the other way around...oh wait...
I have a different stand on that fight. I strongly believe Sidious was in a disadvantage due to environment. Sidious, just like Yoda moves around a lot in fights, and Yoda usually has to make up for his lack of height. Sidious wasn't able to move around like Yoda and Yoda didn't have to make up for his height. In fact, a short saber imo is a more practical weapon in that situation as well.

Overall, Sidious has more consistent saber feats and has the ability to use all forms in various situations, where Yoda is stuck with one exhausting form.

Originally posted by Sinious
I have a different stand on that fight. I strongly believe Sidious was in a disadvantage due to environment. Sidious, just like Yoda moves around a lot in fights, and Yoda usually has to make up for his lack of height. Sidious wasn't able to move around like Yoda and Yoda didn't have to make up for his height. In fact, a short saber imo is a more practical weapon in that situation as well.

Overall, Sidious has more consistent saber feats and has the ability to use all forms in various situations, where Yoda is stuck with one exhausting form.

Kek.

As a gesture of good faith I let you discover the irony in your own post, without pointing it out.

Yeah, I figured you'd say that. Despite that, Sidious still favors certain fighting styles and wasn't able to use them, where the environment favored Yoda's sole fighting style.

1. Sidious chose to go up on that pod.
2. How is that favourable to Yoda?
3. Yoda uses solely Ataru because of his bodily limitations, not because he's not skilled enough in Djem So for example.

Also Sidious could only stalemate an amped Windu, who is canonically below Yoda's skill.

Originally posted by Sinious
I have a different stand on that fight. I strongly believe Sidious was in a disadvantage due to environment. Sidious, just like Yoda moves around a lot in fights, and Yoda usually has to make up for his lack of height. Sidious wasn't able to move around like Yoda and Yoda didn't have to make up for his height. In fact, a short saber imo is a more practical weapon in that situation as well.

Overall, Sidious has more consistent saber feats and has the ability to use all forms in various situations, where Yoda is stuck with one exhausting form. The only reason Sidious ended up in that situation is because was retreating from Yoda's assault.Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Also Sidious could only stalemate an amped Windu, who is canonically below Yoda's skill.

His skills have also been said to be unequaled.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Yoda
Palpatine
Mace Windu
Anakin Skywalker
Count Dooku
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Darth Maul
Depa Billaba (Legends)
Asajj Ventress
General Grievous
Quinlan Vos (Legends)
Sora Bulq
Cin Drallig I agree with this.

Originally posted by Darth Demenos
idk, im leaning toward sidious being the better saber fighter, but barely. but both are better than dooku.

and i would put quinlan above them all except the obvious ones, maul, and maybe depa and grievous

I don't know what state Quinlan was in when he beat Dooku. Also Yoda disarmed Sidious.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I don't know what state Quinlan was in when he beat Dooku. Also Yoda disarmed Sidious. About Vos, Dooku described him as "unburdened" and "calmer" just before their second fight

I can't honestly tell you where I'd place Vos. His direct feat of beating Dooku would have me place him above him but I find that idea repulsive. I need to read the book myself to see the circumstances which led up to his victory.

can someone give a quote that said yoda disarmed sidious please?

Originally posted by Sinious
I have a different stand on that fight. I strongly believe Sidious was in a disadvantage due to environment. Sidious, just like Yoda moves around a lot in fights, and Yoda usually has to make up for his lack of height. Sidious wasn't able to move around like Yoda and Yoda didn't have to make up for his height. In fact, a short saber imo is a more practical weapon in that situation as well.

Overall, Sidious has more consistent saber feats and has the ability to use all forms in various situations, where Yoda is stuck with one exhausting form.

Agreed.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
1. Sidious chose to go up on that pod.
2. How is that favourable to Yoda?
3. Yoda uses solely Ataru because of his bodily limitations, not because he's not skilled enough in Djem So for example.

1. Yeah, Sidious' actions in that fight doesn't really help us understand what he was trying to do. He says he's waited a very long time for that moment and then tries to run after getting TK'ed. He also says Vader will become more powerful than him and sounded quite happy about that. What was he thinking? Him choosing to go up on that pod is hardly the only illogical thing he has done in that scene. It doesn't prove that he didn't end up in a disadvantageous position.
2. The center of the pod was surrounded by a higher ground that allowed Yoda to be on the same height with Sidious while being able to jump around easily, and since he is a small guy, the area they fight in wasn't an obstacle for his acrobatics where it was for Sidious. Also, Sidious had to stand in the exact same spot unlike Yoda, and had to fight this little dude with a shorter saber in that narrow space.
3. I never denied that. This doesn't change the fact that Sidious is the generic, well rounded, and perfect duelist, where Yoda is a specialist.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Also Sidious could only stalemate an amped Windu, who is canonically below Yoda's skill. Proof Yoda > amped Windu in sabers? Also, I'm not sure if Sidious wanted to kill Windu himself tbh.

Well Sidious WANTED Vader to become more powerful then him. He was always looking for somebody to replace him after Vader became less and seemed unable to grow past is limitations.

Originally posted by Syndicate
He was always looking for somebody to replace him lol is that why he was planning to rule the galaxy for thousands of years and believed the RoT ended with him?

*Shrug* There are conflicting sources. In some he wants to continue the RoT Line and in others he's content with being the sum and total of said line.

The guy clearly wanted to live and rule forever. Don't be naive, Syndicate.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I can't honestly tell you where I'd place Vos. His direct feat of beating Dooku would have me place him above him but I find that idea repulsive. I need to read the book myself to see the circumstances which led up to his victory.
Dooku demonstrated a superiority in the Force in that fight, and he ****ing lost his grip on his saber twice in the duel and overextended. I consider that fight a fluke because Dooku would never realistically overextend like that and the fact that he did is PIS

Originally posted by Syndicate
Well Sidious WANTED Vader to become more powerful then him. He was always looking for somebody to replace him after Vader became less and seemed unable to grow past is limitations.

What Sidious wanted was someone who would be extremely powerful who he could make his puppet. Just becuase your powerful doesn't mean your smart, and Anakin was a powerful guy, but stupid when compared to Sidious. Sidious was going to help Anakin/Vader reach his full potential while on the way, making sure Vader knows no other way but him, and follows him till the end, and would never betray him.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
1. Sidious chose to go up on that pod.
2. How is that favourable to Yoda?
3. Yoda uses solely Ataru because of his bodily limitations, not because he's not skilled enough in Djem So for example.

Most likely to gain the force advantage.

Yoda primarily uses Ataru, he has strong usage of other forms. For example in the novel Yoda put up a very strong defense no doubt coming from Soresu, and he did train Dooku who is arguably the best Makashi master in the mythos, so he must have a very strong understanding/usage of the form as well.

Originally posted by Darth Demenos
can someone give a quote that said yoda disarmed sidious please?

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

http://genius.com/George-lucas-yoda-and-palpatine-obi-wan-and-anakin-skywalker-duel-scene-annotated

1. RotS Sidious/Yoda
2. Yoda/RotS Sidious
3. Anakin Skywalker
4. Mace Windu
5. Count Dooku
6. RotS Kenobi
7. Darth Maul
8. Asajj Ventress
9. Depa Billaba
10. Grievous
11. Quinlan Vos
12. Sora Bulq
13. Cin Drallig

Originally posted by Sinious
3. I never denied that. This doesn't change the fact that Sidious is the generic, well rounded, and perfect duelist, where Yoda is a specialist.

That doesn't mean anything, at all really. There are several top tier duelist who only mastered few forms, whereas there are others who mastered several or all and yet they are worse.

Just an example: Dooku mastered 1 single form, Kenobi mastered 2 forms, Galen Marek mastered 3 forms. Yet Dooku is better than Kenobi and Kenobi is better than Galen.

Btw Yoda mastered all 7 forms, him being a "salve" to Ataru and Sidious being able to switch between from has nothing to do with skill.



Lightsaber accolades as far as I know are always refered to the general skill level, not how they apply it in combat. Meaning it doesn't involve force augmentation. That is why Kenobi is and 8, yet Sidious is "only" a 9.

Yoda is more skilled than Windu. Amped Windu was still "only" on Sidious' level in terms of force augmentation, and so was Yoda.

As far as we can decipher Yoda = Sidious = Amped Windu as far as force augmentation is conserned. And we know Yoda is more skilled than Windu. Hence Yoda > Sidious.

Originally posted by Sinious
The guy clearly wanted to live and rule forever. Don't be naive, Syndicate.

The Force Unleashed seems to contradict that and I believe other sources do as well.

Originally posted by Syndicate
The Force Unleashed seems to contradict that and I believe other sources do as well.

Force unleashed isn't canon.

And? We're not talking about canon only here we're talking about Legends? I would have thought that'd been obvious...

Originally posted by Sinious
I have a different stand on that fight. I strongly believe Sidious was in a disadvantage due to environment. Sidious, just like Yoda moves around a lot in fights, and Yoda usually has to make up for his lack of height. Sidious wasn't able to move around like Yoda and Yoda didn't have to make up for his height. In fact, a short saber imo is a more practical weapon in that situation as well.

i agree

Originally posted by Syndicate
And? We're not talking about canon only here we're talking about Legends? I would have thought that'd been obvious...

To take that over other sources though is what I'm getting at. I'm not saying don't use legends, I just didn't think using TFU as something to decide Palptines motives was a good idea.

>EU forum
>That isn't canon

30 million top keks.

EU just means everything outside of the numbered titles. It's not synonymous with Legends.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
EU just means everything outside of the numbered titles. It's not synonymous with Legends.

Are you retarded?

No, but for some odd reason highly suspect you are if you can't even read the thousands of posts Ush felt the need to make on the subject.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, but for some odd reason highly suspect you are if you can't even read the thousands of posts Ush felt the need to make on the subject.

Except 99.1239467% of "everything outside the numbered titles" is Legends. But I don't actually expect you to make a reasonable response since it's been clear to me after 2 days here that your sole purpose is to shit on other users here.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
EU just means everything outside of the numbered titles. It's not synonymous with Legends.

Yeah, cz's questioning moderation publicly. Time for exterminatus.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Except 99.1239467% of "everything outside the numbered titles" is Legends. But I don't actually expect you to make a reasonable response since it's been clear to me after 2 days here that your sole purpose is to shit on other users here.
"I disagree with forum policy so assortment of bitching." Calm down. I like how I'm the one talking shit when I gave a pretty reasonable response, that was set by moderation I might add, to which you responded by asking if I was retarded.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
To take that over other sources though is what I'm getting at. I'm not saying don't use legends, I just didn't think using TFU as something to decide Palptines motives was a good idea.

If we're talking Legends I don't count one source as more valid then another unless it's contradicting itself somehow or is obviously bad writing.

Originally posted by Syndicate
If we're talking Legends I don't count one source as more valid then another unless it's contradicting itself somehow or is obviously bad writing.

If it's bad writing it's not canon?

I didn't say that.

I just said I don't personally see it as valid.

Like Freshest trying to bring up Vader tripping over his own arm.

Another example in regards to contradiction would be Barriss Offee being changed from a healer Jedi Knight to a Dark Jedi. I take the newer more official source that being TCW's interpretation. However I don't discount Barriss's other feats from Legends unless its canon only specifically.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I like how I'm the one talking shit when I gave a pretty reasonable response, that was set by moderation I might add, to which you responded by asking if I was retarded.


>EmperorSidious2 wants to dismiss TFU because it's not canon in the EU forum in a thread with a Legends exclusive character
>I call out him on that BS
>You show up to say something totally irrelevant just pick a side

Originally posted by Syndicate
I didn't say that.

I just said I don't personally see it as valid.

Not gonna last long with this kind of mindset.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not gonna last long with this kind of mindset.

I've lasted far longer then I've wanted to already.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
>EmperorSidious2 wants to dismiss TFU because it's not canon in the EU forum in a thread with a Legends exclusive character
>I call out him on that BS
>You show up to say something totally irrelevant just pick a side
It's not irrelevant, despite your moving of the goal posts. Threads are canon by default, and aside from the featless canon Sora, the rest all have some exposure in canon.

Legends
1. Yoda
2. Palpatine
3. Mace Windu
4. Count Dooku / Anakin Skywalker
5. Obi-Wan Kenobi
6. Darth Maul / General Grievous
7. Sora Bulq / Asajj Ventress
8. Quinlan Vos
9. Cin Drallig

Canon
1. Yoda
2. Mace Windu / Palpatine
3. Count Dooku / Anakin Skywalker
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi / Darth Maul / Quinlan Vos
5. Asajj Ventress
6. General Grievous
7. Depa Billaba
8. Cin Drallig
9. Sora Bulq

Originally posted by Syndicate
If we're talking Legends I don't count one source as more valid then another unless it's contradicting itself somehow or is obviously bad writing.

Ok that's fine glad we are clear on that. Really, I see it in Sidious personality which is displayed through the movies and other novels, that he wants to be the most powerful, and he wants to rule for thousands of years. He would mean he would be the emperor for all that time, not have a successor, so when he says Vader will surpass both him and Yoda and you say he's happy about that, I think we must take into context, he's not happy as that his apprentice will be more powerful, he's happy he will have someone that powerful as his apprentice and he will through manipulation keep him under control, or attempt to keep him under control whatever the case maybe.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Ok that's fine glad we are clear on that. Really, I see it in Sidious personality which is displayed through the movies and other novels, that he wants to be the most powerful, and he wants to rule for thousands of years. He would mean he would be the emperor for all that time, not have a successor, so when he says Vader will surpass both him and Yoda and you say he's happy about that, I think we must take into context, he's not happy as that his apprentice will be more powerful, he's happy he will have someone that powerful as his apprentice and he will through manipulation keep him under control, or attempt to keep him under control whatever the case maybe.

I didn't say he seemed happy. That was somebody else mate.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
>EmperorSidious2 wants to dismiss TFU because it's not canon in the EU forum in a thread with a Legends exclusive character
>I call out him on that BS
>You show up to say something totally irrelevant just pick a side

I don't want to dismiss it, I just thought that since Sidious Persoanlity, in canon, would contradict what I thought syndicate was saying. His personality in canon and what I would presume to be in legends as well, would be he wants to be on top, and he wouldn't want Vader to surpass him, but happy that he could have someone that powerful under his control or what he would be pressume to be under his control.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I didn't say he seemed happy. That was somebody else mate.

That it be. Were you the one who said he would want Vader to surpass him is that what you meant?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
That it be. Were you the one who said he would want Vader to surpass him is that what you meant?

I was. There are numerous sources that support this throughout the EU.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I don't want to dismiss it, I just thought that since Sidious Persoanlity, in canon, would contradict what I thought syndicate was saying. His personality in canon and what I would presume to be in legends as well, would be he wants to be on top, and he wouldn't want Vader to surpass him, but happy that he could have someone that powerful under his control or what he would be pressume to be under his control.

Like I said when discusing Legends/EU I don't count one source as more valid then another unless it's obviously bad writing or contradictory to other sources.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's not irrelevant, despite your moving of the goal posts. Threads are canon by default, and aside from the featless canon Sora, the rest all have some exposure in canon.

Except it's obvious for anyone that's not retarded, such as yourself, that it's a Legends thread.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I was. There are numerous sources that support this throughout the EU.

Ok apologies. However to be clear, do you mean he would want someone to surpass, him as in like the principles of the rule of two, or is there context behind it? If there is context what is it.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Like I said when discusing Legends/EU I don't count one source as more valid then another unless it's obviously bad writing or contradictory to other sources.

Alright.

Yoda/Palpatine
Mace Windu
Anakin Skywalker
Count Dooku
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Darth Maul
Depa Billaba (Legends)/General Grievous
Asajj Ventress
Sora Bulq
Quinlan Vos (Legends)
Cin Drallig

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
That doesn't mean anything, at all really. There are several top tier duelist who only mastered few forms, whereas there are others who mastered several or all and yet they are worse.

Just an example: Dooku mastered 1 single form, Kenobi mastered 2 forms, Galen Marek mastered 3 forms. Yet Dooku is better than Kenobi and Kenobi is better than Galen.

Btw Yoda mastered all 7 forms, him being a "salve" to Ataru and Sidious being able to switch between from has nothing to do with skill. Again, that doesn't change the fact that in an all out situation against different kinds of foes in different numbers, Sidious will have the chance to switch to any form he wants and fully apply it in battle. Just because Yoda once disarmed him in an extremely close fight on a disadvantageous area for Sidious, it doesn't mean Yoda is better We have more reasons to wank Sidious' saber skills than Yoda's. LOL that doesn't mean shit. We don't know where amped Windu should be placed as he only fought Sidious (don't forget the part where Sidious trashed his fellow council members). But you skipped the part where I mentioned Sidious might have had alternative motivations.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Ok apologies. However to be clear, do you mean he would want someone to surpass, him as in like the principles of the rule of two, or is there context behind it? If there is context what is it.

I believe it's the former.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I believe it's the former.

Well to make my position more clear. Sidious isn't someone to just let someone surpass him without a motive. His motive for Vader was to manipulate him and either keep him as a partner like Plagueis planned for him, or the more likely, he would manipulate him and take control of Vader so he could rule for a thousand years with such a powerful being at his command to take out any enemy he may have.

And I'm saying we don't have enough information on Sidious's eventual goals to know for sure given how multiple sources seemingly contradict eachother in this regard.

1. Yoda
2. Darth Sidious
3. Anakin Skywalker
4. Count Dooku
5. Mace Windu
6. Obi-Wan Kenobi
7. Darth Maul
8. Sora Bulq
9. Depa Billaba
10. General Grievous
11. Asajj Ventress
12. Cin Drallig
13. Quinlan Vos