Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

What is there to really say other then this is utterly ridiculous.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/north-korea-sentences-american-otto-warmbier-15-years-prison-n539816

15 years for stealing a propaganda banner. I think this is why Americans need to stay out of places like North Korea.

Bill Clinton gave them nukes, priceless.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/06/you-can-thank-jimmy-carter-and-bill-clinton-for-north-koreas-nukes/

I just wonder what kind of propaganda the banner had. Was it one of those "our supreme leader is magic" type deals?

inb4 libbos blaming the victim and saying that he should've respected other cultures more.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Bill Clinton gave them nukes, priceless.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/06/you-can-thank-jimmy-carter-and-bill-clinton-for-north-koreas-nukes/
From your article:



Pretty sure Clinton didn't have the power to do anything about it AFTER it became known that NK had lied.

Even more bizarre is..why would someone want a propaganda banner to hang in their church?

Apparently this guy is a tourist. Not to victim blame, but my question is what dumbass American goes to tour North Korea? His name ain't Rodman. WTF did he think was going to happen taking a tour of the regime that is the closest thing on Earth to Ingsoc?

Originally posted by Surtur
Even more bizarre is..why would someone want a propaganda banner to hang in their church? Religious people, amirite

Originally posted by Slay
inb4 libbos blaming the victim and saying that he should've respected other cultures more. Originally posted by Lestov16
Apparently this guy is a tourist. Not to victim blame, but my question is what dumbass American goes to tour North Korea? His name ain't Rodman. WTF did he think was going to happen taking a tour of the regime that is the cliest thing on Earth to Ingsoc?
Within seconds.

He was part of a "New Years tour group". Worst.tour.ever.

Who wouldn't want to bring in the New Year there? I plan to spend the next christmas and new years in Afghanistan.

It's always been a dream of mine to dickslap a famous landmark in every country in the world. Guess I'll have to scrap North Korea from my list.

Originally posted by Robtard
From your article:



Pretty sure Clinton didn't have the power to do anything about it AFTER it became known that NK had lied.

You realize the part you quoted my article means next to nothing. Because we knew they were going to break it.

Also

6TcbU5jAavw

New Years Tour Group? Seriously? What were the other destinations? Iraq and Somalia?

I can't help but wonder if this guy got duped. This church told him if he got this banner they'd give him a car worth 10 grand. They then told him if he got detained they'd send 200 grand to his mother. That last part should of sent up red flags.

Something fishy seems to be going on, was this banner made of pure gold or something? Since he did get detained I wonder if they actually gave his mother the 200 grand.

Even if he'd gotten away with it..is he supposed to ship the used car back to America? I realize that is most likely possible, but I doubt it's cheap.

Originally posted by Lestov16
New Years Tour Group? Seriously? What were the other destinations? Iraq and Somalia?
I'd take either of those over NK, tbh. Iraq you've got all the ancient sites and in Somalia you have the pirate theme-parks.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
You realize the part you quoted my article means next to nothing. Because we knew they were going to break it.

Also



Wrong. It means everything.

Interesting, Bill makes a deal with a rouge communist nation and thinks they are going to abide by it.

Didn't we learn our lesson then, oh wait no.

Obama just made the same deal with Iran.

Originally posted by Surtur
I can't help but wonder if this guy got duped. This church told him if he got this banner they'd give him a car worth 10 grand. They then told him if he got detained they'd send 200 grand to his mother. That last part should of sent up red flags.

Something fishy seems to be going on, was this banner made of pure gold or something? Since he did get detained I wonder if they actually gave his mother the 200 grand.

Even if he'd gotten away with it..is he supposed to ship the used car back to America? I realize that is most likely possible, but I doubt it's cheap.

If I read it correctly, he was supposed to steal and take the banner back to the US with him, where the mother of a friend would hang it in her church like a trophy and in return he would be gifted a used car worth $10k.

Which is all kinds of odd.

Originally posted by Surtur
I can't help but wonder if this guy got duped. This church told him if he got this banner they'd give him a car worth 10 grand. They then told him if he got detained they'd send 200 grand to his mother. That last part should of sent up red flags.

Something fishy seems to be going on, was this banner made of pure gold or something? Since he did get detained I wonder if they actually gave his mother the 200 grand.

Even if he'd gotten away with it..is he supposed to ship the used car back to America? I realize that is most likely possible, but I doubt it's cheap.

This guy risked (and got) enslavement in a prison camp for a $10,000 car? Should have just went on Price is Right

Originally posted by Robtard
If I read it correctly, he was supposed to steal and take the banner back to the US with him, where the mother of a friend would hang it in her church like a trophy and in return he would be gifted a used car worth $10k.

Which is all kinds of odd.

Are we sure this isn't just a CIA operative who got caught?

What phucking church would want a North Korean flag as a trophy and ask a man to risk his life to get it? I don't even think the Westboro Baptist Church would try that.


Maybe Otto stole some money out of the collection plate and this is the church's way of retribution

We should invade NK and show them what tyranny actually means.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Are we sure this isn't just a CIA operative who got caught?

What phucking church would want a North Korean flag as a trophy and ask a man to risk his life to get it? I don't even think the Westboro Baptist Church would try that.

Maybe Otto stole some money out of the collection plate and this is the church's way of retribution

That's what NK is claiming, that he is working for the US government to subvert the NK government/The Supreme Leader

Yeah, it's weird, but we've seen weird stories before that turn out to be true.

Originally posted by Robtard
That's what NK is claiming, that he is working for the US government to subvert the NK government/The Supreme Leader

Yeah, it's weird, but we've seen weird stories before that turn out to be true.



Stealing a poster can subvert the entire Nork Government!?

Wow. Seems that country must be in an even worse shambles then the Obama Gubmint.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Why would you ever **** around in North Korea? Idiot.

Originally posted by Robtard
If I read it correctly, he was supposed to steal and take the banner back to the US with him, where the mother of a friend would hang it in her church like a trophy and in return he would be gifted a used car worth $10k.

Which is all kinds of odd.

Now it's even creepier knowing this banner wanting person lives here. I need to know which church is okay with potentially dropping 200k for a banner. Which since he did get detained they won't even get.

So if they hold to their word they are basically out 200k and have nothing to show for it. I almost feel bad for the church, whichever one it is.

CIA cover story. It has to be.


No church is THAT stupid

Originally posted by Robtard
If I read it correctly, he was supposed to steal and take the banner back to the US with him, where the mother of a friend would hang it in her church like a trophy and in return he would be gifted a used car worth $10k.

Which is all kinds of odd.

He deserves it for not having the forethought to realize that all he had to do was go over there, buy an exact replica of the flag that he was sent to retrieve, and return home with it in tow. I mean you have to be somewhat touched to steal in the first place considering all of the cameras, and even more so to do it in North Korea?

Originally posted by Stoic
He deserves it for not having the forethought to realize that all he had to do was go over there, buy an exact replica of the flag that he was sent to retrieve, and return home with it in tow. I mean you have to be somewhat touched to steal in the first place considering all of the cameras, and even more so to do it in North Korea?

Do they sell replicas of propaganda banners in North Korea? That just seems like something they wouldn't allow.

Originally posted by Surtur
Do they sell replicas of propaganda banners in North Korea? That just seems like something they wouldn't allow.

I;m sure that if you presented someone with enough money, you could. wait let me google Korean banners for sale. And done. You absolutely can buy them LOL. I wonder if he'll be thinking about that while he serves his 15 yrs.

Originally posted by Lestov16
CIA cover story. It has to be.


No church is THAT stupid

IMO, the CIA could have come up with a better cover story than "Guy steals useless banner for friend's mother".

So it's probably true, as redic as it sounds.

Not as redic as the guy getting 15 years for stealing a banner, which should be the focus.

Originally posted by Stoic
I;m sure that if you presented someone with enough money, you could. wait let me google Korean banners for sale. And done. You absolutely can buy them LOL. I wonder if he'll be thinking about that while he serves his 15 yrs.

Just to be clear are you searching for North Korean banners or North Korean propaganda banners? Since I typed in "buy north korean propaganda banner" and only turned up this story. I also tried using the word "purchase" instead of buy and still found nothing.

EDIT: Oh wait, I found someone on ebay claiming to be selling them. But they've already been bought. I don't see them available really other then that. If they were so easy to find why didn't the church just buy one instead of going through all this hassle?

Part of me really wants to know if this church actually gave his family the 200k.

Originally posted by Surtur
Just to be clear are you searching for North Korean banners or North Korean propaganda banners? Since I typed in "buy north korean propaganda banner" and only turned up this story. I also tried using the word "purchase" instead of buy and still found nothing.

EDIT: Oh wait, I found someone on ebay claiming to be selling them. But they've already been bought. I don't see them available really other then that. If they were so easy to find why didn't the church just buy one instead of going through all this hassle?

Part of me really wants to know if this church actually gave his family the 200k.

Whoops. Nope didn't go that far. I just saw some Korean banners lol, but how difficult would it be if you were actually in NK? We sell US banners to tourists all of the time right? I can imagine his face when they busted in the door and bum rushed his show. Get on the ground.. GET...ON...THE...GROUND!!!

Originally posted by Lestov16
CIA cover story. It has to be.


No church is THAT stupid

I think you're underestimating churches. But if this is the CIA then what was the purpose of trying to take a banner? Remember it's not like this is merely the explanation the government/the guy is giving. North Korea itself is saying he tried to steal the banner. Now if they found someone there and thought he was there for some other purpose and then our own government came out and said "no it was totally just for a banner" then I might suspect more.

I think unfortunately it's the reverse. NK thinks this is some conspiracy, but in reality it's just sheer stupidity at work.

Originally posted by Surtur
Just to be clear are you searching for North Korean banners or North Korean propaganda banners? Since I typed in "buy north korean propaganda banner" and only turned up this story. I also tried using the word "purchase" instead of buy and still found nothing.

EDIT: Oh wait, I found someone on ebay claiming to be selling them. But they've already been bought. I don't see them available really other then that. If they were so easy to find why didn't the church just buy one instead of going through all this hassle?

Part of me really wants to know if this church actually gave his family the 200k.

Brother, not all people are capable of critical thinking.

This sounds like something one of those creepy churches that are more like cults would do.

Originally posted by Surtur
This sounds like something one of those creepy churches that are more like cults would do.

There's a lot of them out there. I was in one that had the Pastor tell everyone to get up, and begin praying for all of their dead relatives. So I got up and walked out.

Originally posted by Stoic
There's a lot of them out there. I was in one that had the Pastor tell everyone to get up, and begin praying for all of their dead relatives. So I got up and walked out.
Hey, that doesn't sound so weird.

Originally posted by Stoic
There's a lot of them out there. I was in one that had the Pastor tell everyone to get up, and begin praying for all of their dead relatives. So I got up and walked out.

I know the feeling. I was in a church that forced me to drink the symbolic blood of their deity.

Originally posted by Surtur
I know the feeling. I was in a church that forced me to drink the symbolic blood of their deity.

stop

Whoa.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Whoa.

story is crazy but nork is crazy. everyone should visit the DMZ one time to see sheer propaganda stupidity.

huge flag
"rainbow village"
the structures and how they try to intimidate eachother. so damn silly but shows how dumb the general populace can be.

There are many lemmings out there.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There are many lemmings out there.

spent a year in s. korea. when the south puts a flag up, the north put up one three times the size. the north has these beautiful houses right by the DMZ that used to lure south koreans because they thought that maybe they were fed lies by their own government. houses were gutted tho....only a shell. and the south koreans that went to the north were killed or put in the army.
the south koreans that work the DMZ are usually the biggest ones. it's about intimidation. they stand a parade rest for hours on end....staring at the north koreans. the north koreans are in a building and looking through binoculars at the south koreans. i mean they aren't even that far away it seemed; it's all about appearance.
so damn silly, but look at the stark differences between south and north. the north is what you get when you allow socialism/communism to take over a country so thoroughly. all it takes is the wrong leader and there is nothing the people can do.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Hey, that doesn't sound so weird.

Off topic a bit, but it actually is. I mean that's necromancy. Besides isn't it a little too late once you're dead? I think the whole point of prayer is to help/benefit the living. Right?

Originally posted by Stoic
Off topic a bit, but it actually is. I mean that's necromancy. Besides isn't it a little too late once you're dead? I think the whole point of prayer is to help/benefit the living. Right?

Well, sainthood is something reserved to death people, so every Christian Church that includes saints has, to some degree, belief in prayers towards the dead.

Yeah, though I'm not a Catholic myself, I grew up in a very Catholic country. I suppose that's why I didn't think it was all that weird.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Yeah, though I'm not a Catholic myself, I grew up in a very Catholic country. I suppose that's why I didn't think it was all that weird.

Catholics also believe in Purgatory. Someone once explained to me (in the context of a folktale) that prayers from the living actually help the dead to "shorten" their stay in Purgatory.

That person might've been making stuff up, but I doubt the Catholic Church has banned such belief while allowing other more radical ones to run rampant.

And after finally being sent back home (in a coma), Otto passed away at the age of 22. Now, I'm old enough to remember that Leftist sites like Huffpost and Salon mocked Warmbier's plight saying things like, "my reaction to another young white man who went to an Asian country and violated their laws, and learned that the shield his cis white male identity provides here in America is not Teflon abroad." The Left said that Warmbier deserved his sentence because he was a "privileged white fraternity boy." Now I'll just sit here and wait for Huffpost and Salon to post an apology or anything to retract their bitterness towards him...but I won't hold my breath.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
And after finally being sent back home (in a coma), Otto passed away at the age of 22. Now, I'm old enough to remember that Leftist sites like Huffpost and Salon mocked Warmbier's plight saying things like, "my reaction to another young white man who went to an Asian country and violated their laws, and learned that the shield his cis white male identity provides here in America is not Teflon abroad." The Left said that Warmbier deserved his sentence because he was a "privileged white fraternity boy." Now I'll just sit here and wait for Huffpost and Salon to post an apology or anything to retract their bitterness towards him...but I won't hold my breath.
Huffpost and Salon are the Breitbart of the left. They're clowns.

Wow, just...the actual title for the huff post article is this:

"North Korea Proves Your White Male Privilege Is Not Universal"

Holy shit, seriously? What is going to be their next headline? "White privilege shown not to help with coma"?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Huffpost and Salon are the Breitbart of the left. They're clowns.

The problem is they generally get treated with more respect than Breitbart and other conservative sites.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Huffpost and Salon are the Breitbart of the left. They're clowns.

I'm still waiting for Breitbart to acknowledge that Trump is keeping Obama's amnesty for illegal immigrants in tack. Still waiting...

Originally posted by Surtur
Wow, just...the actual title for the huff post article is this:

"North Korea Proves Your White Male Privilege Is Not Universal"

Holy shit, seriously? What is going to be their next headline? "White privilege shown not to help with coma"?

Affinity Magazine tweeted out: "Watch whiteness work. He wasn't a "kid" or "innocent" you can't go to another country and try to steal from them. Respect their laws" Glad to see so many left sites are willing to excuse such brutality against people because of their color and gender.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Affinity Magazine tweeted out: "Watch whiteness work. He wasn't a "kid" or "innocent" you can't go to another country and try to steal from them. Respect their laws" Glad to see so many left sites are willing to excuse such brutality against people because of their color and gender.

With their mindset I think they truly believe it is different when they do it. I think they justify it by telling themselves that the Republicans are putting everyone in danger with their actions(health care for example) and thus extreme rhetoric is justified. I think they feel it is up to them to "save America" and they think it is their duty to not only resist Trump, but to get him removed. As their frustration at Trump grows their acts of resistance steadily increase.

That is the truly scary thing, there was more than one tweet after the Virginia shooting about how they deserved it because their plans for healthcare are going to kill people. Scott Pelley from CBS implied that Steve Scalise was partially responsible for his shooting. A Democratic strategist named "Jim Devine" tweeted out "#huntrepublicans" and then he went and Tucker Carlson and defended it:

6DvMOYEpqGA

Here is the imbecile from CBS saying his stupid comment if anyone wants to see it:

gHCxuuaTWq8

Yeah, that's our media guys.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
And after finally being sent back home (in a coma), Otto passed away at the age of 22. Now, I'm old enough to remember that Leftist sites like Huffpost and Salon mocked Warmbier's plight saying things like, "my reaction to another young white man who went to an Asian country and violated their laws, and learned that the shield his cis white male identity provides here in America is not Teflon abroad." The Left said that Warmbier deserved his sentence because he was a "privileged white fraternity boy." Now I'll just sit here and wait for Huffpost and Salon to post an apology or anything to retract their bitterness towards him...but I won't hold my breath.

Why should anyone apologize? His death does not change any of the underlying facts of the situation. North Korea is a hostile, authoritarian country with known human rights abuses, and no diplomatic relations with the United States. In order to even travel to there, one must sign a legal document acknowledging that if he is detained there for any reason, the U.S. government will not negotiate his release. Not only did he accept that risk in going there, he also committed a crime. In choosing the behavior, he chose the consequences. Are we supposed to feel sorry for him?

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Affinity Magazine tweeted out: "Watch whiteness work. He wasn't a "kid" or "innocent" you can't go to another country and try to steal from them. Respect their laws" Glad to see so many left sites are willing to excuse such brutality against people because of their color and gender.

Also wait...just to go back to this, I assume Affinity is a liberal news site right? I read up more on the situation about the guy in North Korea and they kept talking about how he needs to respect laws. Now look at the above post by Adam, and look at what he just said:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Not only did he accept that risk in going there, he also committed a crime. In choosing the behavior, he chose the consequences. Are we supposed to feel sorry for him?

So my question now is, what about illegal immigration? Surely Affinity is in favor of deporting all illegals from our country. After all, people need to respect the laws.

Adam, I assume you also agree, if any illegal is caught...even if they have committed no violent crimes and have family here, we should not feel sorry for the person who gets deported, right? They chose to come, knew the consequences, and committed a crime etc.

Last year when this thread was made, the righties were all 'meh, dumbass shouldn't have done that in NK, they're crazy over there'. Now the spin to somehow blame it on anything they deem "liberal". Legit laughed, you people.

Originally posted by Robtard
Last year when this thread was made, the righties were all 'meh, dumbass shouldn't have done that in NK, they're crazy over there'. Now the spin to somehow blame it on anything they deem "liberal". Legit laughed, you people.

I made the thread and I called it utterly ridiculous and said people shouldn't go to NK lol. So I wasn't laughing. So who is this "you people" ?

Please don't let my factually correct post interrupt you in using this guy's death as yet another political hammer, wielding it to attack your dreaded "liberal media", Surt. Do continue your shtick.

Originally posted by Robtard
Please don't let my factually correct post interrupt you in using this guy's death as yet another political hammer, wielding it to attack your dreaded "liberal media", Surt. Do continue your shtick.

Lol your hypocrisy is astounding.

The best part will be if you reply back with "what hypocrisy?".

Originally posted by Surtur
So my question now is, what about illegal immigration? Surely Affinity is in favor of deporting all illegals from our country. After all, people need to respect the laws.

Adam, I assume you also agree, if any illegal is caught...even if they have committed no violent crimes and have family here, we should not feel sorry for the person who gets deported, right? They chose to come, knew the consequences, and committed a crime etc.

What about it? I do not support illegal immigration.

I also recognize that deporting 11-million people is not logistically possible, and that separating families of mixed immigration status is equally unviable.

The problem, like the immigration system, is complex, and requires a complex solution. That is why we need comprehensive immigration reform.

We are a nation of laws, and a nation of immigrants, and we need to find a way to balance those things.

That being said, one assumes the risk of deportation by remaining in a country unlawfully, so I do not feel much empathy for his situation.

However, I would make exception for someone who was brought here as a minor, because he did not have a choice in immigrating here, and does not know his country of origin as home. He also did not break the law, the adult who brought him here did. His illegal status is not his doing, and our system makes it exceedingly difficult for him to correct this, so he should not be punished for the crime of someone else.

It's good that you don't support it Adam, but unfortunately a lot of liberals do, so when you see liberal sites going "shoulda followed the rules" well, that's an all or nothing thing. It doesn't just apply to NK.

I have flat out seen articles from Salon in support of illegal immigrants and their rights to stay here, etc.

Originally posted by Surtur
Now it's even creepier knowing this banner wanting person lives here. I need to know which church is okay with potentially dropping 200k for a banner. Which since he did get detained they won't even get.

So if they hold to their word they are basically out 200k and have nothing to show for it. I almost feel bad for the church, whichever one it is.

Surt, joking about this, despite trying to white knight now to try and shame liberals. You just love being a hypocrite don't you

Originally posted by Lestov16
Surt, joking about this, despite trying to white knight now to try and shame liberals. You just love being a hypocrite don't you

Ah yes, that is a nice false equivalency you have going there for you.

Wow, Surt. Youre complaining about people on the internet saying Scalise deserved it, but don't care about the various people saying the Muslims attacked in Finsbury deserved it, including those who still say Islam is an inherently "horrid" religion despite Muslims being the victims and even for giving the attacker. You truly are deplorable.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Wow, Surt. Youre complaining about people on the internet saying Scalise deserved it, but don't care about the various people saying the Muslims attacked in Finsbury deserved it, including those who still say Islam is an inherently "horrid" religion despite Muslims being the victims and even for giving the attacker. You truly are deplorable.

Okay dude, after this reply it's official: anyone who praises you is an imbecile.

You just spewed utter nonsense. Once again: you feel like if someone calls out one thing they have also call out every other injustice in the world?

In your sad, pathetic quest to try to find anything you can deem hypocritical you just make yourself look bad.

That is your tactic. You complained about Scalise? What about the Muslims? Oh, you're talking about muslim terror? What about white supremacists?!?! Yet I bet you'd whine and whine if the first reply in the recent non muslim terror attack was "what about the muslim terorists?!" right?

You play childish games.

You don't "talk about Muslim terror". You call Islam in it's entirety a "horrid" religion.

And YES YOU PHUCKING DUMBASS if you're going to stand up against one injustice then you have to stand against all injustice. Otherwise you're picking and choosing aka hypocrisy

That being stated, had this not been turned into a failed liberal smearfest, I like the fear of God Trump seems to have put into Kim as a result of this. Kim seems to be scared shitless of Trump right now, at least if the current news reports are accurate. I'm pretty sure that hatred for North Korea is bipartisan, so trying to smear liberals seems silly and disingenuous.

Hard to see Trump he can do here as sanctions don't seem to work against NK. We don't need another war...

Originally posted by Lestov16
Wow, Surt. Youre complaining about people on the internet saying Scalise deserved it, but don't care about the various people saying the Muslims attacked in Finsbury deserved it, including those who still say Islam is an inherently "horrid" religion despite Muslims being the victims and even for giving the attacker. You truly are deplorable.

Scalise is a white conservative American man. Muslims attacked are likely not white, conservative nor American. Hmmm...

Originally posted by Lestov16
You don't "talk about Muslim terror". You call Islam in it's entirety a "horrid" religion.

And YES YOU PHUCKING DUMBASS if you're going to stand up against one injustice then you have to stand against all injustice. Otherwise you're picking and choosing aka hypocrisy

Lol, you're such a hypocritical piece of shit at this point. Frothing at the mouth.

I don't see you standing up against all injustice. I see you WHINING like a little b*tch when people talk about Islam but not the shit YOU want to discuss.

You have done this before and are doing it again. It is the dumbest shit imaginable, if people haven't talked about what *you* think they should be, you throw a fit like a b*tch. Just like before when you had to bring up Christianity in a topic about an Islamic terror attack.

You aren't smart nor do you even practice what you preach.

Because no, one does not have to stand up for EVERY SINGLE INJUSTICE. This You just said if you stand up for one injustice you must stand up for every single injustice. Will the usual suspects still pat him on the back for it? Cuz again: that is the stupidest shit I've ever heard, so please someone say we need to imbue ourselves with this dipsticks wisdom.

Think about that for a second. If you stand up for one injustice you must stand up for all: nobody on this board does that lol. Nobody here stands up for all injustice in the world.

Originally posted by Robtard
Scalise is a white conservative American man. Muslims attacked are likely not white, conservative nor American. Hmmm...

Rob, shut up. You haven't stood up for all injustice, so cease.

Can we just say that this is sad?

I don't really know why we would allow Americans to enter North Korea and hopefully we block that.

Oh and Salon deleted their article, wonder why?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What about it? I do not support illegal immigration.

I also recognize that deporting 11-million people is not logistically possible, and that separating families of mixed immigration status is equally unviable.

The problem, like the immigration system, is complex, and requires a complex solution. That is why we need comprehensive immigration reform.

We are a nation of laws, and a nation of immigrants, and we need to find a way to balance those things.

That being said, one assumes the risk of deportation by remaining in a country unlawfully, so I do not feel much empathy for his situation.

However, I would make exception for someone who was brought here as a minor, because he did not have a choice in immigrating here, and does not know his country of origin as home. He also did not break the law, the adult who brought him here did. His illegal status is not his doing, and our system makes it exceedingly difficult for him to correct this, so he should not be punished for the crime of someone else.



Far as I'm concerned, the real issue is how exploited undocumented immigrants are.

That's something that often gets ignored beind the rhetoric. And call me cynical, but I have a feeling neither "side" really wants to fix that.. Democrats and Republicans both seem to benefit from the exploitation of undocumented labor..

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Can we just say that this is sad?

I don't really know why we would allow Americans to enter North Korea and hopefully we block that. Update to my post.

The Chinese program that Otto joined has vowed to not send American's to North Korea anymore. Hopefully they expand that to just a blanket ban but it is a start.

Originally posted by cdtm


Far as I'm concerned, the real issue is how exploited undocumented immigrants are.

That's something that often gets ignored beind the rhetoric. And call me cynical, but I have a feeling neither "side" really wants to fix that.. Democrats and Republicans both seem to benefit from the exploitation of undocumented labor..

One side wants comprehensive immigration reform and the other one does not, so . . .

Originally posted by Henry_Pym
Update to my post.

The Chinese program that Otto joined has vowed to not send American's to North Korea anymore. Hopefully they expand that to just a blanket ban but it is a start.

While I don't think an American citizen should travel to NK as it's a dictatorship with nigh-hostile relations with America, I don't think the US should be banning its adult citizens from travelling, they know the risk beforehand, they have to sign wavers.

Originally posted by Robtard
While I don't think an American citizen should travel to NK as it's a dictatorship with nigh-hostile relations with America, I don't think the US should be banning its adult citizens from travelling, they know the risk beforehand, they have to sign wavers.

Serious question: after all that has happened do you think an adult who still wants to go to NK is mentally sound?

Otto Warmbier went there alive and came back a vegetable, then died. They did that to him over stealing a banner.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
One side wants comprehensive immigration reform and the other one does not, so . . .

Yes, but that side also includes the likes of h1b exploitation (That's the problem with the Democratic party. Big tent really means putting on a public face about issues, while different factions jockey for their own (often conflicting) self interests..)

Originally posted by Surtur
Serious question: after all that has happened do you think an adult who still wants to go to NK is mentally sound?

Otto Warmbier went there alive and came back a vegetable, then died. They did that to him over stealing a banner.

Could be said about many a dangerous activity people go into.

I'm not going to NK and I'd advise others not to, but physically stopping consenting adults on going? Nah, it's their choice; they know the risk.

Originally posted by Robtard
While I don't think an American citizen should travel to NK as it's a dictatorship with nigh-hostile relations with America, I don't think the US should be banning its adult citizens from travelling, they know the risk beforehand, they have to sign wavers. I agree on principle, but I kinda view it in the same vein as seatbelt laws.

Originally posted by cdtm
Yes, but that side also includes the likes of h1b exploitation

The United States is not graduating enough specialists like doctors and engineers to meet demand. If it wants to remain globally competitive, it needs to fill the positions with qualified people from elsewhere. Those are exactly the sort of immigrants people should want.

Otto Warmbier's family rebukes Trump, says Kim Jong Un is responsible for son's death

The family of Otto Warmbier rebuked President Donald Trump on Friday for siding with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, who denied knowledge of their son's maltreatment during his imprisonment.

"We have been respectful during this summit process. Now we must speak out. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuses or lavish praise can change that. Thank you," Fred and Cindy Warmbier, Otto's parents, said in a statement provided to CNN.

After a second summit with Kim in Vietnam, President Trump said Thursday he does not hold the North Korean dictator responsible for Warmbier's death.

"He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word," Trump said during a news conference, also claiming Kim "felt very badly. But he knew the case very well, but he knew it later."

Otto Warmbier was a University of Virginia student when he was detained in January 2016 during a brief sightseeing tour of the reclusive state. He was held captive by the North Korean regime for over a year, before being released back to the US in June 2017. Then 22 years old, Warmbier returned home to Ohio in a vegetative state -- blind, deaf, and having sustained severe brain damage from his time in detention. He died on June 19, 2017, days after the Trump administration had secured his return. -snip


It's almost like Trump loves to side with dictators. Which is odd as he previously condemned Kim for Otto's death and congratulated himself in getting NK to release Otto after he was left in a vegetative state and died shortly after.

Originally posted by Robtard
Otto Warmbier's family rebukes Trump, says Kim Jong Un is responsible for son's death

The family of Otto Warmbier rebuked President Donald Trump on Friday for siding with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, who denied knowledge of their son's maltreatment during his imprisonment.

"We have been respectful during this summit process. Now we must speak out. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuses or lavish praise can change that. Thank you," Fred and Cindy Warmbier, Otto's parents, said in a statement provided to CNN.

After a second summit with Kim in Vietnam, President Trump said Thursday he does not hold the North Korean dictator responsible for Warmbier's death.

"He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word," Trump said during a news conference, also claiming Kim "felt very badly. But he knew the case very well, but he knew it later."

Otto Warmbier was a University of Virginia student when he was detained in January 2016 during a brief sightseeing tour of the reclusive state. He was held captive by the North Korean regime for over a year, before being released back to the US in June 2017. Then 22 years old, Warmbier returned home to Ohio in a vegetative state -- blind, deaf, and having sustained severe brain damage from his time in detention. He died on June 19, 2017, days after the Trump administration had secured his return. -snip


It's almost like Trump loves to side with dictators. Which is odd as he previously condemned Kim for Otto's death and congratulated himself in getting NK to release Otto after he was left in a vegetative state and died shortly after.

I don't think Trump loves doing this. I think Trump does it because he thinks it will make them more willing to work with him.

So more excuses like in Helsinki when Trump threw America under the rug to make Putin look good. Not surprised at all at this point; it's expected.

Originally posted by Robtard
So more excuses like in Helsinki when Trump threw America under the rug to make Putin look good. Not surprised at all at this point; it's expected.

If you wanna ignore Trump's personality you go on and do so, I'm just pointing out how Trump is. He thinks this stuff works on others because it works on him.

I agree with Surtur on the reason behind Trump doing that, but still this is something that leaves me extremely displeased with Trump.

Originally posted by Robtard
So more excuses like in Helsinki when Trump threw America under the rug to make Putin look good. Not surprised at all at this point; it's expected.

No offense, Rob, but you're saying he's making excuses, and yet you offer no counterargument on what Trump should have done, because you know that if Trump decided "Screw peace! They killed our citizen! Let's attack them!" then it would be a geopolitical cluster**** that would affect the world on a massive scale.

Let's be honest. Regardless of who was elected, North Korea was going to get nukes, and the incumbent POTUS would be forced to negotiate peace talks. I'm sure that Trump would like to have Kim assassinated, but he knows that the situation is much more complex than that. The North Korean totalitarian regime is extremely bureaucratic in it's methods of control. Honestly, Trump dealing with the North Koreans is actually a good thing, as it helps delegitimize Anti-American sentiment in the region. I mean let's be honest, North Korea is essentially a totalitarian nuclear-armed version of Sentinel Island, so any step towards diplomacy can be viewed as a positive.

Again, I hate to be mean Rob, but it seems like you're suffering from TDS. There's nothing wrong with this except for the fact that Trump is doing it.

As far as Otto Warmbier is concerned, I feel like his family was exploited by Trump which was scummy but not unexpected of Trump, but on the other hand, he was a complete arrogant dumbass for going into territory he knew was hostile and attempting to disrespect them by stealing their property. Stealing a flag shouldn't warrant death, but an American stealing a North Korean flag is the absolute epitome of tempting fate, and I'm sorry, but I don't sympathize with him.

-Trump condemns Kim for the death
-Takes credit for getting the body back (rightfully so here)
-Now reverses himself on Kim

That's okay, why?

How about hold Kim accountable for his actions while still pursuing peace talks? No one has to go to war over some idiot who didn't listen to the warnings. Not that torture which lead to death should have been his punishment in the first place.

TDS

Priceless:

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Interesting, Bill makes a deal with a rouge communist nation and thinks they are going to abide by it.

Didn't we learn our lesson then, oh wait no.

Obama just made the same deal with Iran.

Originally posted by Robtard
-Trump condemns Kim for the death
-Takes credit for getting the body back (rightfully so here)
-Now reverses himself on Kim

That's okay, why?

How about hold Kim accountable for his actions while still pursuing peace talks? No one has to go to war over some idiot who didn't listen to the warnings. Not that torture which lead to death should have been his punishment in the first place.

Rob, I don't think you understand. Kim Jong Un is INSANE. He is a guy who was raised by his INSANE dad to be a totalitarian psychopath who will kill his own family members for the slightest attempt at disobedience. He will never accept accountability, and will view any question of his government's involvement as an outright condemnation of the North Korean government itself, therefore continuing if not increasing hostility in the region.

Look, dude. Quite simply, the world is huge and full of various cultures that have various beefs with each other and various levels of brutality that they are willing to inflict. Every POTUS has to work with dictators to maintain geopolitical stability. It sucks and it is against American secular humanist values but it is necessary if the US is to maintain any kind of global standing.

Originally posted by Robtard
Priceless:

Trump didn't make a deal with them, try again, TDS.

Seems your getting outplayed here at KMC and reporting to digging up old posts you think will give you an edge.

Originally posted by Lestov16


Look, dude. Quite simply, the world is huge and full of various cultures that have various beefs with each other and various levels of brutality that they are willing to inflict. Every POTUS has to install dictators to exploit their country's resources. It sucks and it is against American secular humanist values but it is necessary if the US is to maintain global domination

Fixed that for you

Originally posted by Lestov16
Rob, I don't think you understand. Kim Jong Un is INSANE. He is a guy who was raised by his INSANE dad to be a totalitarian psychopath who will kill his own family members for the slightest attempt at disobedience. He will never accept accountability, and will view any question of his government's involvement as an outright condemnation of the North Korean government itself, therefore continuing if not increasing hostility in the region.

Look, dude. Quite simply, the world is huge and full of various cultures that have various beefs with each other and various levels of brutality that they are willing to inflict. Every POTUS has to work with dictators to maintain geopolitical stability. It sucks and it is against American secular humanist values but it is necessary if the US is to maintain any kind of global standing.

Disagree. Kim's a POS, but you still hold Kim accountable while moving forward. If anything, you use that murder (cos that's what it was) as bargaining chip so at least maybe something positive will come of it.

But all in all, it's futile, despite Trump previously declaring that NK is no longer a nuclear threat, NK isn't going to abandon its nukes; as it's how Kim stays in control and power. They might scale back a bit if they're offered something worthwhile, but the best you can hope for is to have an uneasy truce with a nuclear capable NK.

Now if America were to remove Kim and his regime and those loyal to him and put someone in power that's pro America, that's different, but we're talking about either war or assassination/subversion games.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I agree with Surtur on the reason behind Trump doing that, but still this is something that leaves me extremely displeased with Trump.

Bingo, it's not like this is okay. It's just I don't think Trump actually loves dictators.

Remember: he also essentially threatened NK in the past(via twitter, of course)

Originally posted by Surtur
Bingo, it's not like this is okay. It's just I don't think Trump actually loves dictators.

Remember: he also essentially threatened NK in the past(via twitter, of course)

I think he's drawn to the same personality type as he is himself. That just happens to be the Kim Jongs and the Putins of this world. He has nothing in common with leaders of other NATO countries.

Erdogan, Duterte

Why on earth are you people talking about this personality rubbish? facepalm

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
I think he's drawn to the same personality type as he is himself. That just happens to be the Kim Jongs and the Putins of this world. He has nothing in common with leaders of other NATO countries.

Yeah nah, when you try to phrase it like this it's like he's an evil guy who likes dictators. That's not the case at all. It never has been the case.

I love how people think Trumps inherently evil but saw Obama as inherently good.

Originally posted by Deadline
Why on earth are you people talking about this personality rubbish? facepalm

Some people love to ignore Trumps personality in order to essentially imply he's evil.

Originally posted by BrolyBlack
I love how people think Trumps inherently evil but saw Obama as inherently good.

Notice you won't hear a peep out of them about Bernie's praise of dictators lol.

Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah nah, when you try to phrase it like this it's like he's an evil guy who likes dictators. That's not the case at all. It never has been the case.

You're putting the cart before the horse. He doesn't like dictators because they're dictators. It's that in his role as a world leader he'll come into contact with other world leaders and of those, he relates more to the ones who have a similar personality to him. It just happens to be that they are more likely to be dictators.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
You're putting the cart before the horse. He doesn't like dictators because they're dictators. It's that in his role as a world leader he'll come into contact with other world leaders and of those, he relates more to the ones who have a similar personality to him. It just happens to be that they are more likely to be dictators.

He might relate to those with ego's true. Then again he'd be best friends with Macron and Trudeau if that was always the case.

Originally posted by jaden_2.0
I think he's drawn to the same personality type as he is himself. That just happens to be the Kim Jongs and the Putins of this world. He has nothing in common with leaders of other NATO countries. eh.. I think there is some truth to that but it's not that simple. I think Trump is really a binary thinker. He only seems to have two levers, the carrot and the stick. First he tried the stick on NK and people said he was war mongering. Now he's trying the carrot angle and people say he's kissing the ring of a despot. Truth is Trump doesn't deal in nuance... You're either a bad guy or a good guy... If you're a dictator that I think it suits his purpose to cooperate with, then you're a good guy. If you are a dictator that is in the way or that I might gain leverage by antagonizing... You're a bad guy. People hate to admit anything that normaizes Trump cause his particular style is so over the top... But in essence this good guy bad guy dichotomy is business as usual for American foreign policy. We've always favored certain dictators and demonized others. It's just part of being a global empire.

Originally posted by Surtur
Some people love to ignore Trumps personality in order to essentially imply he's evil.

Still don't know what's that has to do with anything, is he supposed to say with every head of state that he hates them or try to get along?

Originally posted by mike brown
eh.. I think there is some truth to that but it's not that simple. I think Trump is really a binary thinker. He only seems to have two levers, the carrot and the stick. First he tried the stick on NK and people said he was war mongering. Now he's trying the carrot angle and people say he's kissing the ring of a despot. Truth is Trump doesn't deal in nuance... You're either a bad guy or a good guy... If you're a dictator that I think it suits his purpose to cooperate with, then you're a good guy. If you are a dictator that is in the way or that I might gain leverage by antagonizing... You're a bad guy. People hate to admit anything that normaizes Trump cause his particular style is so over the top... But in essence this good guy bad guy dichotomy is business as usual for American foreign policy. We've always favored certain dictators and demonized others. It's just part of being a global empire.

He does deal with nuance but something tells me he's doing the right thing by being more straight forward. I dunno when you mean nuance maybe you mean duplicitous.

It still sickens me the way Otto was treated. I had a dream the other night I met him before his death, I woke up deeply saddened. If I had the power of Broly irl I would have destroyed the whole fcking country already.

I had a dream giant turtles attacked me.

Originally posted by Deadline

He does deal with nuance but something tells me he's doing the right thing by being more straight forward. I dunno when you mean nuance maybe you mean duplicitous. No, I mean nuance. Trying to work a deal out with someone doesn't have to mean showering them with praise, and trying to take a hard line doesn't have to mean saber rattling. Kim went from "Iittle rocket man" to "a smart cookie" in Trump's words in a matter of months. Same dude, nothing has changed about him. Just Trump's strategy.

You say he's just being straight forward... I don't think so. If anything his new found love for Kim is pretty disingenuous. I even remember during his national emergency speech, while taking about how promising the North Korean regime was and heaping praise on them... Trump complimented NK on its "great location... Right there between South Korea and China." Great location. Like it's a ****in McDonald's. All so he can try to work with them going forward. It's transparently fake and obvious schmoozing.

Originally posted by mike brown
No, I mean nuance. Trying to work a deal out with someone doesn't have to mean showering them with praise, and trying to take a hard line doesn't have to mean saber rattling. Kim went from "Iittle rocket man" to "a smart cookie" in Trump's words in a matter of months. Same dude, nothing has changed about him. Just Trump's strategy.

You say he's just being straight forward... I don't think so. If anything his new found love for Kim is pretty disingenuous. I even remember during his national emergency speech, while taking about how promising the North Korean regime was and heaping praise on them... Trump complimented NK on its "great location... Right there between South Korea and China." Great location. Like it's a ****in McDonald's. All so he can try to work with them going forward. It's transparently fake and obvious schmoozing.

I dunno you just seem to be whining basically.

No I'm not. I'm giving a pretty mild criticism of the president. Not even remotely emotionally invested. I actually found the great location comment pretty funny.

Originally posted by mike brown
No I'm not. I'm giving a pretty mild criticism of the president. Not even remotely emotionally invested. I actually found the great location comment pretty funny.

Meh, ok.