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Put Inside a 12x12 Adamantium Box. Door opens when only one stays alive

Best Showings for Red hulk and Juggernaut ( not trion)

Hulk can go WBH of he gets the chance

WB Hulk is too much. None of these guys are in his class.

Originally posted by Stoic
WB Hulk is too much. None of these guys are in his class. Hulk can only go WB if he is given the chance, remember they are frantically trying to kill him.

He can go WB in seconds. With just a thought.

Originally posted by carver9
He can go WB in seconds. With just a thought. That's if they allow him seconds to think. If DD pounds him the first instant then Hulk won't get a chance.

If Hulk does go WB then he most likely stalemates (because of Juggs).

They are all aware he can go world breaker hulk, After 1 hour doomsday can go HP, And Hulk instantly becomes world breaker, rulk becomes Leob force if hes still alive

...How would they kill Juggy???

I don't see any way they're going to put down 8th Day Juggernaut without BFR.

It'll be a loooong looong fight, but he should be the last one remaining.

Looks like WB Hulk takes this

Hulk has dropped Jugs before with a couple of punches and H1 doesn't know what he is talking about.

Originally posted by Glorificus
I don't see any way they're going to put down 8th Day Juggernaut without BFR.

It'll be a loooong looong fight, but he should be the last one remaining.

Not really, considering that the rest of the Avatars took him down very easily. WB Hulk would put him out of this pretty fast. WB Hulk really doesn't belong in this thread, he's on a completely different level of power than the rest of these characters. He should have been subbed by Orion without the M-Box, or someone of similar power.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk has dropped Jugs before with a couple of punches and H1 doesn't know what he is talking about.

He has killed Juggy with a couple of punches? Scans.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He has killed Juggy with a couple of punches? Scans.

Merged Hulk bent him over with a punch to the gut.

So no.

Where did you get killed by a couple punches though? I don't see that in Carver's post.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So no.

Lmfao

If we're talking about the most formidable version of Juggernaut, then I'd choose his 'classic' incarnation over his '8th Day' incarnation any day of the week. Classic Juggs may not be quite as physically strong, but his force-field was so ridiculously haxx that it more than makes up for the difference in strength.

So assuming this is classic Juggernaut, he would ultimately win. With a FF in place, not even WBH's physicality is putting him down, imo.

Ive never seen the entirety of those WBH scans

Originally posted by Stoic
Where did you get killed by a couple punches though? I don't see that in Carver's post.

Hint: Its in the thread where the winner is the last one alive.

Dropping Juggy is all well and good, but itmeans nothing if the winner is the last one alive.

We've seen Juggys HF. We've seen his immortality, his FF. Pure physical attacks (like here in this thread) won't kill him.

Loeb Rulk has the best chance to drop him, what with his Loeb Force. WBH ain't doing it.

Originally posted by Galan007
If we're talking about the most formidable version of Juggernaut, then I'd choose his 'classic' incarnation over his '8th Day' incarnation any day of the week. Classic Juggs may not be quite as physically strong, but his force-field was so ridiculously haxx that it more than makes up for the difference in strength.

So assuming this is classic Juggernaut, he would ultimately win. With a FF in place, not even WBH's physicality is putting him down, imo.

But that's only because he never faced a character capable of putting him down. Savage Hulk didn't beat him, but he swung him around. Merged Hulk bent him over with a gut punch showing that he could have been hurt. Classic was categorized as being unbeatable in the hand books, but those are hand books. Colossus was able to stand his ground with classic Cain as well. Surely he had limits right? WB Hulk was written to be well above anything that classic Juggernaut has ever faced. From what I recall, 8th Day Juggernaut was Cain at his most powerful barring Trion.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Ive never seen the entirety of those WBH scans

Go to Youtube and search for Incredible Hulk Heart of the Monster. You'll see the entire thing. Well as long as it's still there.

Originally posted by Stoic
But that's only because he never faced a character capable of putting him down. Savage Hulk didn't beat him, but he swung him around. Merged Hulk bent him over with a gut punch showing that he could have been hurt. Classic was categorized as being unbeatable in the hand books, but those are hand books. Colossus was able to stand his ground with classic Cain as well. Surely he had limits right? WB Hulk was written to be well above anything that classic Juggernaut has ever faced. From what I recall, 8th Day Juggernaut was Cain at his most powerful barring Trion.

IOW, WBH can overpower an Elder God's power in Cytorrak, and kill Juggy?

That's a tall order, tbh.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hint: Its in the thread where the winner is the last one alive.

Dropping Juggy is all well and good, but itmeans nothing if the winner is the last one alive.

We've seen Juggys HF. We've seen his immortality, his FF. Pure physical attacks (like here in this thread) won't kill him.

Loeb Rulk has the best chance to drop him, what with his Loeb Force. WBH ain't doing it.

None of these guys are hurting WB Hulk though, so if this comes down to who will outlive the other in terms of longevity you may be correct, but there is no way for Cain to get the better of that version of the Hulk. Not happening, he has never displayed that kind of power before.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
IOW, WBH can overpower an Elder God's power in Cytorrak, and kill Juggy?

That's a tall order, tbh.

When did it say that Cain had all of Cytorrak's power? Also we have no idea how powerful Cytorrak is, he may even be less powerful than Cain himself according to a poorly written comic of when they faced off against each other. I don't even want to get into that mess. However, on panel, Cain has never showed that he had the ability to defeat a being of WB Hulk's power level, while the Hulk without going that high defeated Loeb Rulk with a hand clap.

Originally posted by Stoic
But that's only because he never faced a character capable of putting him down. Savage Hulk didn't beat him, but he swung him around. Merged Hulk bent him over with a gut punch showing that he could have been hurt. Classic was categorized as being unbeatable in the hand books, but those are hand books. Colossus was able to stand his ground with classic Cain as well. Surely he had limits right? WB Hulk was written to be well above anything that classic Juggernaut has ever faced. From what I recall, 8th Day Juggernaut was Cain at his most powerful barring Trion. He was literally unfazed by the Godblast as well--it just pushed him back slightly. This is the same blast that can harm Galactus and Celestials.

But anyway, the only thing ever shown capable of bypassing the force-field was a specific enchantment from Mjolnir. Nothing else was ever stated to have penetrated it. Fortunately, no one on the field possesses high-end magics.

Anywho, there are only a handful of comics that actually reference and/or depict Juggernaut's force-field. The consensus is that the FF simply made Juggernaut *too* uber, so most writers purposefully overlooked it over the years, and just gave him a lot of physical durability w/o the FF.

Originally posted by Stoic
When did it say that Cain had all of Cytorrak's power? Also we have no idea how powerful Cytorrak is, he may even be less powerful than Cain himself according to a poorly written comic of when they faced off against each other. I don't even want to get into that mess. However, on panel, Cain has never showed that he had the ability to defeat a being of WB Hulk's power level, while the Hulk without going that high defeated Loeb Rulk with a hand clap.

What comics are u referring to with cytorrak

A few things.

1. WBH is like 200 ft tall
2. Half of WBH feat belongs to red she hulk
3. WBH died from that punch

Originally posted by Stoic
Cain has never showed that he had the ability to defeat a being of WB Hulk's power level So because there simply weren't any beings like WBH around back in the late-80s/early-90s for Juggernaut to fight, it means WBH is > by default? Can't follow that logic at all.

On the flip side, WBH has never shown the ability to down an opponent as durable as classic Juggernaut(/w/ FF in place.) The ability to easily destroy a planet is not indicative of such, imo.

Originally posted by Stoic
while the Hulk without going that high defeated Loeb Rulk with a hand clap. This might impress me more if Rulk were even remotely close to Juggernaut's durability tier.

Originally posted by Galan007
He was literally unfazed by the Godblast as well--it just pushed him back slightly. This is the same blast that can harm Galactus and Celestials.

But anyway, the only thing ever shown capable of bypassing the force-field was a specific enchantment from Mjolnir. Nothing else was ever stated to have penetrated it. Fortunately, no one on the field possesses high-end magics.

Anywho, there are only a handful of comics that actually reference and/or depict Juggernaut's force-field. The consensus is that the FF simply made Juggernaut *too* uber, so most writers purposefully overlooked it over the years, and just gave him a lot of physical durability w/o the FF.

I know all about that in terms of Thor's G-Blast, but there are things out there that are even more powerful than something capable of harming Galactus. Bringing Galactus up is also a bad idea because Galactus has variable levels of power. The FF have hurt Galactus, Beta Ray Bill has hurt Galactus, etc. Galactus has gone toe to toe with Mephisto in his realm, and took on the In-Betweener and got the better of him. As for the force field, I've always thought it to be artistic rendition. All the same, Cain has never shown the might that it would take to harm WB Hulk if we consider that the Hulk was completely unfazed by 3 class 100 level characters of Cain's strength level. When Merged Hulk bent Cain over, that was the era that could be considered classic Juggernaut.

I think the problem is stoic keeps referencing a feat where cain didnt use his force field and galan keeps referencing a feat where he does. 😉

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
A few things.

1. WBH is like 200 ft tall
2. Half of WBH feat belongs to red she hulk
3. WBH died from that punch

1. He isn't that tall throughout the entire arc.

2. read how a Red Hulk's power works, and then look for a time when Rulk overheated due to using his power, and then take into account what the Wishing Well did to Betty.

3. I never saw the Hulk die. That's been up for debate for a long time. Some buy it, some don't. Since i didn't see it, I don't buy it. Pak would have to be the deciding factor. Consumer opinion does not matter.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What comics are u referring to with cytorrak

You should google it. Someone posted scans of Cain beating up on Cyttorak several yrs ago when i was under the impression that Cytorrak was likely more powerful than Odin, and perhaps even able to defeat Galactus. You'll have to search around for it.

Originally posted by Galan007
So because there simply weren't any beings like WBH around back in the late-80s/early-90s for Juggernaut to fight, it means WBH is > by default? Can't follow that logic at all.

On the flip side, WBH has never shown the ability to down an opponent as durable as classic Juggernaut(/w/ FF in place.) The ability to easily destroy a planet is not indicative of such, imo.

This might impress me more if Rulk were even remotely close to Juggernaut's durability tier.

Well when you have characters of Colossus' level being able to fight him for prolonged periods of time, it seems pretty logical to me, that Cain is simply not on the level of a guy many times more powerful than Hercules. I don't see how Cain would hurt WB Hulk, but I can see WB Hulk swatting him around and looking a lot more dominant in a fight. He may not keep him down, but i don't see him causing WB hulk to sweat.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know all about that in terms of Thor's G-Blast, but there are things out there that are even more powerful than something capable of harming Galactus. Bringing Galactus up is also a bad idea because Galactus has variable levels of power. The FF have hurt Galactus, Beta Ray Bill has hurt Galactus, etc. Galactus has gone toe to toe with Mephisto in his realm, and took on the In-Betweener and got the better of him. Except when Thor used it on Galactus, I don't believe he was stated to be hungry/depowered, and it harmed him to such an extent that he actually fled for his life. So yeah...

Originally posted by Stoic
As for the force field, I've always thought it to be artistic rendition. The force-field is invisible, so I don't know why you'd think that. The in-comic references to it are all we can really go by. That said, it has been referenced in a handful of comics, but more often than not, it's ignored for reasons I've already mentioned.

Originally posted by Stoic
All the same, Cain has never shown the might that it would take to harm WB Hulk if we consider that the Hulk was completely unfazed by 3 class 100 level characters of Cain's strength level. When Merged Hulk bent Cain over, that was the era that could be considered classic Juggernaut. I never once said(or even implied) that classic Juggs can match WBH's strength. I am merely saying that Juggs will ultimately be the last one standing because of his ridiculous durability.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I think the problem is stoic keeps referencing a feat where cain didnt use his force field and galan keeps referencing a feat where he does. 😉 In this thread Juggy's FF will be up, thus any showings which do not depict him with a FF are irrelevant unless the other bricks here have a way to shut it down.

I would think that the FF is artistic rendition, because different artists portray things differently. They couldn't be ignorant to how the Juggernaut's powers work. If you go by that line of reasoning, it sort of seems as if you may be implying that these people are incompetent. I wouldn't fault you for thinking so, but we don't really know for certain, and thus it would fall to personal opinion. I for one have never placed his showing under that amount of scrutiny, and just saw it as artistic rendition. I recall you saying yrs ago, that there is no such thing a true invulnerability, and that every character has a limit. Right here in this very thread, I know that you said that you would never say that Cain was stronger. We don't have to revisit that point. However, i can't see him harming WB Hulk with the strength that he has displayed on panel. I do see WB Hulk being physically more dominant, and swatting him around to the point that if it were in a comic, he'd slap Cain to the moon, and he'd be out of the fight. As for Galactus, I've seen him at variable levels. I don't know how powerful he was, and I'm not certain if you do either. I do know that Galactus has beaten guys well above Thor though. Tyrant off panel is just one of those beings.

Originally posted by Stoic
I would think that the FF is artistic rendition, because different artists portray things differently. They couldn't be ignorant to how the Juggernaut's powers work. If you go by that line of reasoning, it sort of seems as if you may be implying that these people are incompetent. Eh?

I'm saying that most writers have ignored the force-field all together... Which is 100% factual. No implications are required.

Originally posted by Stoic
I recall you saying yrs ago, that there is no such thing a true invulnerability, and that every character has a limit. Maybe. Not sure why that's relevant, though..? I never said Juggernaut had infinite durability or w/e. Just said that Cyttorak's enchantment grants him all the durability he'd need here.

Originally posted by Stoic
Right here in this very thread, I know that you said that you would never say that Cain was stronger. Yes, and I explained why strength alone is not why I think Juggernaut wins.

Originally posted by Stoic
However, i can't see him harming WB Hulk with the strength that he has displayed on panel. I do see WB Hulk being physically more dominant, and swatting him around to the point that if it were in a comic, he'd slap Cain to the moon, and he'd be out of the fight. This is A FIGHT TO THE DEATH. BFR'ing Juggernaut=/=killing him. So again: this is an irrelevant point.

I believe Hulk's energies are more finite than the energy at Juggernaut's disposal. So even if it takes years, Hulk will eventually tire to the point where Juggernaut becomes more powerful. Again: this battle is about the long game.

Originally posted by Stoic
As for Galactus, I've seen him at variable levels. I don't know how powerful he was, and I'm not certain if you do either. I do know that Galactus has beaten guys well above Thor though. Tyrant off panel is just one of those beings. I told you that I didn't recall the comic stating he was hungry/weak. And again: I didn't use that scene as a means to describe how powerful Thor is. I used it to reference the power of a Godblast... A blast which classic Juggernaut tanked... But there are other, very uber, GB feats we can talk about if you'd like to continue trying to lowball this one.



It seems like you're caught up in your own monologue at this point, and not really sure where you're focusing the argument. Your whole post pretty much restated my last post... Very strange.

Well for one, I don't think an adamantium 12x12 cage would hold these guys, but that's outside of what this thread was meant to be. This is to the death. I've never seen Juggernaut die, this is true. I wasn't low-balling the G-Blast feat, but I'm also not sure how WB Hulk would stand up to such a blast. It isn't something that can actually be quantified. I was saying that using Galactus as a way of measuring the attack is faulty, because Galactus has different levels of power.

Back to the invisible force field vs the visible force field argument. I still think that it was artist rendition. Some artists include things that others do not. War fought Cain, and he had a visible FF after all. What I can't get around is that you are saying that Cain was more durable when the artist shows a glowing force field vs when we see no glowing force field as a means of saying that he isn't as durable when we don't see one. During the 8th Day arc, I don't recall seeing one when Thor hits Cain with everything he had. Cain looked just as durable there as he did when Thor tried fighting Cain accompanied by Excaliber. The only thing that I noticed that was different, was that Cain during the 8th Day arc was written to be stronger than ever according to on panel citation. I also don't think that using one depiction/showing of the G-Blast should be considered the same as another showing of it. You can think of it as me low balling, or take it for what it is that i am actually saying. One writer expresses things differently than another one does, so it makes the G-Blast very difficult to quantify.

What we can quantify, is Cain's performance against other characters in physical combat. We do know that merged Hulk was able to affect him with a punch to the gut as well. Do you have any proof at all that states that Juggernaut is more durable when we see a FF vs the times that we don't? Is this just personal opinion?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
IOW, WBH can overpower an Elder God's power in Cytorrak, and kill Juggy?

That's a tall order, tbh.

A weaker Hulk overpowered Cytorrak power.

Originally posted by Stoic
War fought Cain, and he had a visible FF after all. That was a crimson power aura, not a FF. War had an identical aura, except it was green.

...Unless you think War had a FF?

Originally posted by Stoic
What I can't get around is that you are saying that Cain was more durable when the artist shows a glowing force field vs when we see no glowing force field as a means of saying that he isn't as durable when we don't see one. I never said that, lol. Again, I think you're getting turned around by your own monologues.

Originally posted by Stoic
I also don't think that using one depiction/showing of the G-Blast should be considered the same as another showing of it. You can think of it as me low balling, or take it for what it is that i am actually saying. One writer expresses things differently than another one does, so it makes the G-Blast very difficult to quantify. Yeah, that's pretty much the textbook definition of lowballing.

Originally posted by Stoic
Do you have any proof at all that states that Juggernaut is more durable when we see a FF vs the times that we don't? Is this just personal opinion? Again, I don't even know where you got this. You're really twisting my words here.

Once more: a select few comics over the years have referenced/depicted Juggernaut with a force-field on panel--the other 95% of his showings have completely ignored the FF. That's why random characters can normally pull his helmet off to facilitate a TP win, etc. If the FF were there, they'd never even be able to touch his helmet, as it is encapsulated by the FF.

The FF is only there when we are TOLD it's there.

For real though, WBH took out beings more powerful than Cain. Hell, he killed beings more powerful than him by mistake. It's crazy to think he can't harm Jugs.

We're talking about Juggs with a force-field in place(which, again, he's rarely ever been written with.) I've seen nothing from WBH to indicate that he can penetrate said shielding enough to harm--let alone kill--Juggs. The energy that he and Betty unleashed wouldn't cut it, imo. /shrug

Good post Galan. Question to the thread starter. Does Hulk get "all of his fts" or are you limiting him?

Originally posted by carver9
Good post Galan. Question to the thread starter. Does Hulk get "all of his fts" or are you limiting him?

Hulk is hulk boo. Dont make me take u to gamma school

@Galan I think that Cain had a FF, and War was radiating gamma energy. That's the way that I saw that particular scene. If you saw it differently, well it just goes to show that we all have our opinions on things.

2. I got the distinct impression that you implied that having a FF made Cain more durable than when it is not seen, or visible. Excuse me if I misunderstood what you were saying.

3. I wasn't low balling. If so, please quantify how much power he hit Cain with vs the amount that he hit Galactus with. Different writers gauge things differently. This happens more often than you can shake a stick at. If not I suppose that Cain was harder to hurt than characters that are likely more powerful than the source of his power.

4. I don't see anything that states that Cain has a FF, just him at his best showing, and that would be 8th Day Cain according to on panel citation. What you did was add the FF. What I asked is for proof that when he is drawn to have the FF is he in fact more durable than when he is drawn not to have one. I mean it's not as if it needs to be stated that Superman can fly and has HV in every comic that he is in to know that this is a couple of his powers. You see why I asked the question? As far as I'm concerned, Cain is as durable with or without it, unless it was stated somewhere on panel otherwise.

Originally posted by Stoic
3. I wasn't low balling. If so, please quantify how much power he hit Cain with vs the amount that he hit Galactus with. Different writers gauge things differently. This happens more often than you can shake a stick at. If not I suppose that Cain was harder to hurt than characters that are likely more powerful than the source of his power. Thor specifically likened the Godblast he struck Cain with, to the Godblast he used against Galactus and the Celestial:
http://s8.postimg.org/e12707d79/image.jpg

So yeah, all of the aforementioned blasts were intended, by the writers, to be of equal power.


And again: the GB didn't even scratch Juggernaut. It just pushed him back slightly until the structure they were fighting on crumbled beneath him:
http://s8.postimg.org/ecjncytn9/image.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
4. I don't see anything that states that Cain has a FF, just him at his best showing, and that would be 8th Day Cain according to on panel citation. What you did was add the FF. Juggernaut WITH a force-field IS Juggernaut at his best, though. Again, 8th Day may be the physically strongest version, but classic Juggernaut's durability with the force-field more than makes up for the difference in strength, and is FAR more valuable in this particular battle.

I've already gone over this multiple times.

Originally posted by Stoic
What I asked is for proof that when he is drawn to have the FF is he in fact more durable than when he is drawn not to have one. I mean it's not as if it needs to be stated that Superman can fly and has HV in every comic that he is in to know that this is a couple of his powers. You see why I asked the question? As far as I'm concerned, Cain is as durable with or without it, unless it was stated somewhere on panel otherwise. If you knew about Juggernaut's history, you'd know that the difference between his force-fielded and non-force-fielded self was blatantly depicted on panel.

With the FF on, Thor couldn't do a goddamn thing to Juggernaut. Literally nothing. When Thor used Mjolnir to momentarily negate the FF and Juggy's invulnerability, however, his blows actually affected Juggernaut:
http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26241286_08.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26241288_09.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26241289_10.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26241291_11.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26241292_12.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t/26241294_13.jpg


But as I keep saying: Most writers completely ignore Juggy's FF because it makes him too haxx. Quite literally unbeatable by any conventional means. That's why the majority of his showings make his invulnerability a purely physical trait. This way his helmet can be removed to facilitate psi attacks, physical attacks/blasts can actually strike his person, etc.

Again: The FF is only there when we are TOLD it's there. The other 95% of the time, he's simply not written that way.

Originally posted by Galan007
He was literally unfazed by the Godblast as well--it just pushed him back slightly. This is the same blast that can harm Galactus and Celestials.

But anyway, the only thing ever shown capable of bypassing the force-field was a specific enchantment from Mjolnir. Nothing else was ever stated to have penetrated it. Fortunately, no one on the field possesses high-end magics.

Anywho, there are only a handful of comics that actually reference and/or depict Juggernaut's force-field. The consensus is that the FF simply made Juggernaut *too* uber, so most writers purposefully overlooked it over the years, and just gave him a lot of physical durability w/o the FF.
Not really, a giant fan left him groggy even with the force-field protecting him.

http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/26241707_X-MEN033_13b.jpg http://s6d8.turboimg.net/t1/26241708_X-MEN033_14a.jpg

A giant fan. Oh boy. Galan it looks like that fan may have been more powerful than the G-Blast. Then again... Those pesky writers, and how much they differ from one book to the other. Which was one of the points that I was trying to make. The BS that goes on in comics happens too often. On one hand I remain unconvinced that Cain's strength level is enough to do more than irritate WB Hulk, while I still believe that WB Hulk would be able to hurt Cain based on a few odd showings. On the other hand,the only way that Cain wins is if they sit in that adamantium ring for years and the Hulk dies of starvation, or he manages to break the walls by using Cain's head as a battering ram, and then tosses him into outer space. Either way, Cain isn't going to dominate this version of the Hulk. He's just not strong enough.

Not everyone knows but Galan's first choice for a username was Marko007, but he didn't like how Marko ended in an "oh" sound as it clashed too much with the needed "double oh". Is it triple oh? Should he just use one 0 and play off the O? Oh boy this is tricky now!

These are the types of things that kept everyone from knowing he was a Juggy fan for years.

Originally posted by carver9
A weaker Hulk overpowered Cytorrak power.

And killed Juggy? Scans.

Originally posted by Stoic
A giant fan. Oh boy. Galan it looks like that fan may have been more powerful than the G-Blast. Then again... Those pesky writers, and how much they differ from one book to the other. Which was one of the points that I was trying to make. The BS that goes on in comics happens too often. On one hand I remain unconvinced that Cain's strength level is enough to do more than irritate WB Hulk, while I still believe that WB Hulk would be able to hurt Cain based on a few odd showings. On the other hand,the only way that Cain wins is if they sit in that adamantium ring for years and the Hulk dies of starvation, or he manages to break the walls by using Cain's head as a battering ram, and then tosses him into outer space. Either way, Cain isn't going to dominate this version of the Hulk. He's just not strong enough. Please tell me you're not trying to hold a single ridiculous showing from one of Juggernaut's first ever appearances during the 60s in higher regard than everything else he's done since? I show you classic Juggernaut tanking full-force strikes from Thor/Mjolnir, and even the friggin Godblast itself in far more recent comics... But somehow a PIS showing from very early in his career weighs heaviest in your mind? Say it ain't so...

Anyway, in the comic prior to the one DS posted scans from, Juggernaut tanked everything the X-Men dished out without even a scuff:
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26250828_Uncanny_X-Men_032-016.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26250833_Uncanny_X-Men_032-017.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26250836_Uncanny_X-Men_032-018.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26250838_Uncanny_X-Men_032-019.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26250840_Uncanny_X-Men_032-020.jpg
So evidently Stan Lee thought a large fan>>>>the X-Men themselves back then..? Lol. Again, PIS.

Mind you, this crap occurred during an era where the most powerful item in the X-Men's arsenal was a "swiftly rolling" 10 ton steel barrel:
http://s22.postimg.org/9mablnsb5/image.jpg



Suffice to say: it's pretty obvious that the X-Men and their rogues became far more refined in the years that followed(ergo Juggy's showings against Thor and the like.)


And as I have said repeatedly: I agree that WBH is stronger--but strength isn't why I think Juggernaut ultimately wins.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Not everyone knows but Galan's first choice for a username was Marko007, but he didn't like how Marko ended in an "oh" sound as it clashed too much with the needed "double oh". Is it triple oh? Should he just use one 0 and play off the O? Oh boy this is tricky now!

These are the types of things that kept everyone from knowing he was a Juggy fan for years. "JuggySucker69-420" was taken.

Originally posted by Galan007
Anyway, in the comic prior to the one DS posted scans from

Reported.

Just because you saw 'abhi', and thought of 'Dark', does not make it true.

http://i.imgur.com/IViOijD.jpg

I posted no scans. Abhi did. But you said I did. Your entire posting history is now suspect.

Just realized that.


...You do remind me of abhi, though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Just realized that.


...You do remind me of abhi, though.

The 'Dark' in my username?

The 'homo' in your posts.

Originally posted by Galan007
The 'homo' in your posts.
This homo.

sneer

Originally posted by Galan007
The 'homo' in your posts.

Be the change you want to see in the world, Galan. A philosophy I am trying to embody.

^ You're doing a great job. Keep it up, IMO.

I wonder how juggs is gonna kill anyone?

Unless they break their own fist hitting juggs punching him as hard as they can killing themselves

Originally posted by Galan007
^ You're doing a great job. Keep it up, IMO.

I wonder when we can go back to lowballing and misrepresentation in the thread...

^ Very soon, me thinks.

Originally posted by Galan007
Just realized that.


...You do remind me of abhi, though.

Juggernaut even with FF was written all over the place, iirc in his earlier days Juggernaut was hinted at (if not outright stated) him always having his forcefield up and that tied into his durability. Him being "unstoppable" was initially a separate power altogether, but some writers believe it's all tied together, some believe his forcefield acts independent from his innate durability while some wrote his unstoppable enchantment as the reason he could no-sell attacks.

Juggernaut almost no-selling the godblast is a career high for him, but the ff has had low showings just like everything else does in comics. On average it protects him from mid-level attacks but it isn't stopping WBH indefinitely.

The theme of this thread is that all characters are at their best. Ergo my opinion that the others aren't breaching it.

At his peak, classic Juggernaut /w/ a FF was pretty much untouchable to anything that didn't exude very potent magics(which none of these bricks possess.)

Oh, well if that's the case I see where you're coming from, but even still, it's extremely rare that Hulk runs into a forcefield he cannot break through eventually.

^ Not ruling that out as a possibility, but I think the chances are quite slim--even for WBH. /shrug

Imo, Juggy's FF could weather Hulk's melee just fine. Then it's just a matter of waiting for Hulk to expend enough energy that he becomes weaker than Juggernaut. Might take days/months(or longer), but like I said earlier: Hulk's energy reserves are far more finite than Juggernaut's... Juggy can play the long game just fine.

Eh, where does it say that Juggernaut has infinite stamina to tank months of attack from a hulk at this level?

Yep. Months of WBH pounding away at Juggernaut? Not seeing it personally. He cracked Umars forcefields pre-WBH and she was supreme ruler of the Dark Dimension at the time.

I never used the word 'infinite'.

But Juggernaut's powers have often been describe as limitless or whathave you. Whether you take that literally is another matter entirely.

For the record, I don't think this battle would really take months. That was just a figure of speech.

So Galan, so that I do not misunderstand what you are saying. Just what are you saying? How long do you see this lasting, and how does it go in your opinion?

It goes long enough that Cytorrak's power lasts longer than WBH's anger/desire to stay at WBH's levels.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It goes long enough that Cytorrak's power lasts longer than WBH's anger/desire to stay at WBH's levels.

How long is that? I never saw a limit to the length of time that he could remain at that level. It had become a conscious effort for him to go world breaker after all.

Originally posted by Stoic
How long is that? I never saw a limit to the length of time that he could remain at that level. It had become a conscious effort for him to go world breaker after all.

I think you meant 'unconscious'?

But we know that it took specific steps for him to go WBH. His family dying on Sakaar. Betrayed by the Illuminati. Betrayed by Miek. Betty getting with Tyrannus. Betty being amped up to match him. An endless supply of monsters, who, if killed, will be magically brought back to life. Etc etc. Pak went to great details to show all of this.

He doesn't go WBH just because he is in a fight. Because he is 'angry'. He has to be INCREDIBLY angry. AND have the desire to let loose (remember, he is always holding back).

Remove any of those, and he does not go WBH.

No, I actually meant conscious. He learned how to do this on Sakaar, by simply willing himself to control his powers without having to become a snarling enraged brute. This is further seen while he is in the Dark Dimension. All of the other things attached were just reasons for him to justify being at that level of power, which were removed from him when Doom performed surgery on his brain. He was further justified while in the DD due to his knowledge that no innocents would come to harm, which is why he gave everyone that he deemed to be innocent a chance or amount of time to go back to Earth.

Originally posted by Stoic
No, I actually meant conscious. He learned how to do this on Sakaar, by simply willing himself to control his powers without having to become a snarling enraged brute. This is further seen while he is in the Dark Dimension. All of the other things attached were just reasons for him to justify being at that level of power, which were removed from him when Doom performed surgery on his brain. He was further justified while in the DD due to his knowledge that no innocents would come to harm, which is why he gave everyone that he deemed to be innocent a chance or amount of time to go back to Earth.

Cool, if you DO mean conscious, then he consciously won't go WBH to kill these guys, even if he is able to

It wasn't about innocents. It was about them being able to come back to life no matter how many times he killed them.

http://marvelvdc.com/images/Hulk_Wishes_For_Death_Incredible_Hulks_634_010.jpg

If Doomsday, Rulk and Juggy aren't coming back, he won't let loose.

So then in other words, your attempt is to limit the Hulk? What you're saying is that the Hulk would tone it down in order to spare these characters that are out to kill him, even though the thread says to the death? DS, please adjust your approach, you're about to crash and burn.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It goes long enough that Cytorrak's power lasts longer than WBH's anger/desire to stay at WBH's levels. Exactly.

There's obviously no way to know for sure how long the battle would last, because it has never happened before.

If there is no way to know how long that this battle would last, there is no way that you could say that Juggernaut outlasts the Hulk's desire to continue pummeling him.

Doesn't Current Juggernaut possess enough power to kill Cyttorak?

Originally posted by Stoic
So then in other words, your attempt is to limit the Hulk? What you're saying is that the Hulk would tone it down in order to spare these characters that are out to kill him, even though the thread says to the death? DS, please adjust your approach, you're about to crash and burn.

How am I limiting the Hulk, beyond actually taking his character into account?

You want to argue powerset, fine. CBR is that way (to use the hackneyed phrase).

But ignoring the Hulk's mindset, is, to me, ignoring a fundamental point about the HotM storyline, and Pak's entire run.

Flash has killed, when the chips are down. Batman, has killed. Superman, has killed. Martian Manhunter, has killed. Wolverine has killed. Thor has killed. Iron Man, Cyclops, Cap A, have killed.

Hulk does not kill - on panel, by the same guy who wrote WBH. He has incredible amounts of power, but he holds HIMSELF back.

Because the threads clause throw CIS out of the window to an extent. "To the Death". This means that some force out of the blue has compelled each one of these guys to fight to the death, but not to the point that the people arguing for them take their place. I don't need to tell you how you are attempting to limit the Hulk in this instance, as it is clear that you have attempted to do so. In this case it won't work, due to the threads clause.