Galen Marek VS Mace Windu

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TheNuisanceBird
What do you guys think?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL4siE1h9QI

NewGuy01
Another one?

carthage
Marek ragdolls him

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Another one?

Lol It has quite a controversial verdict.

Syndicate
Galen solidly.

hutchy1345
Really? Galen Marek is better than arguably the strongest jedi of his era alongside yoda?

Syndicate
Originally posted by hutchy1345
Really? Galen Marek is better than arguably the strongest jedi of his era alongside yoda?

Yes.

EmperorSidious2
I'm going windu.

Sabers-windu

force- i believe Mace has enough power to at least compete, and can redirect Mareks lightning back at him.

all out-Windu. His advantage with the saber will bring him through. If Shaak Ti can push Marek as far as she did I'm sure windu being above Ti can replicate and feel in the gap.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I'm going windu.

Sabers-windu

force- i believe Mace has enough power to at least compete, and can redirect Mareks lightning back at him.

all out-Windu. His advantage with the saber will bring him through. If Shaak Ti can push Marek as far as she did I'm sure windu being above Ti can replicate and feel in the gap.

You mean before Galen's prime and while he was distracted with dealing with the environment around him.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
You mean before Galen's prime and while he was distracted with dealing with the environment around him.

Yea, however i still stick by my point. He can take him in sabers and doesn't Marek have a very weak force wall? Wind can at least contend in the force and can send his lightning back at him and can take sabers, thus I see him being able to take the all-out.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Yea, however i still stick by my point. He can take him in sabers and doesn't Marek have a very weak force wall? Wind can at least contend in the force and can send his lightning back at him and can take sabers, thus I see him being able to take the all-out.

Nah. Not by his prime when he's redirecting telekinetic assaults from Vader.

He really can't contend in the Force. What feats puts him even close to being comparable?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Nah. Not by his prime when he's redirecting telekinetic assaults from Vader.

He really can't contend in the Force. What feats puts him even close to being comparable?

His placement in the lore, being able to remove AT-ATs with ease, he is very close to Dooku who was able to lift several obelisk at once, Windu can easily lift heavy objects, his performance in the micro clone wars series etc. Again I'm not trying to argue Mace is more powerful, I'm just saying he has enough to at least contend, which based off of Mareks weak force wall and Windus showings of redirecting Sidious lightning, and his own TK showings, IMO he should be able to hold those powers off, long enough to get close enough to end it with sabers.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
His placement in the lore, being able to remove AT-ATs with ease, he is very close to Dooku who was able to lift several obelisk at once, Windu can easily lift heavy objects, his performance in the micro clone wars series etc. Again I'm not trying to argue Mace is more powerful, I'm just saying he has enough to at least contend, which based off of Mareks weak force wall and Windus showings of redirecting Sidious lightning, and his own TK showings, IMO he should be able to hold those powers off, long enough to get close enough to end it with sabers.

Remove ATAT's with ease? You mean that scene where he pushes an ATAT a few feet off the edge of a cliff? How is that on par with any of Dooku's showings who by the way doesn't come close to Galen himself. Also Galen is physically superior and comparatively skilled. Mace isn't winning a majority.

Syndicate
Also this weak force wall you're referring to? It's pure fantasy.

"He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides, hoping to keep him off his guard. For a moment, it worked.

Then the apprentice straightened and, with a sweep of his left arm, blew the missiles away." - The Force Unleashed

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Remove ATAT's with ease? You mean that scene where he pushes an ATAT a few feet off the edge of a cliff? How is that on par with any of Dooku's showings who by the way doesn't come close to Galen himself. Also Galen is physically superior and comparatively skilled. Mace isn't winning a majority.

The fact their said to be basic equals, pretty much shows that they have a similar if not equal power in the force. I didn't say that particular feat puts him on level with Dooku its just an impressive feat that he was able to push a very heavy object with seemingly little difficulty. Physically stronger yes. Mace holds an edge in sabers though. Not an 8/10 more like a 6-7/10.

Lord Stark
Mace Windu takes this.

McP
How is Starkiller superior to Mace physically? He fell onto his knees after Vader stabed him, while Mace still fought Depa after she stabed him. And after that he stomped Kar also.

Mace was also a superior duelist. As I remember Starkiller was inferior even to Vader, and gain the advantage only because of FL. And he wasn't even superior duelist to Shaak Ti.

He's superior in terms of using the Force, but Mace isn't a pushover. More then that, I believe that Marek has more credit then he deserves.
He had his one moment against Sidious, when he gave far more then 100% of himself, and still died. A feat inferior to Yoda's and Talzin's feats against Sidious. And normally, Sidious would stomp him, like he did in DS ending.

Mace takes this.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
The fact their said to be basic equals, pretty much shows that they have a similar if not equal power in the force. I didn't say that particular feat puts him on level with Dooku its just an impressive feat that he was able to push a very heavy object with seemingly little difficulty. Physically stronger yes. Mace holds an edge in sabers though. Not an 8/10 more like a 6-7/10.

For who? Mace? Look friend, I don't think you're understanding but Galen has the capacity to carry out high intensity duels and run out the endurance of people like Vader. He doesn't need to outskill Mace. Simply exhaust him in a high intensity duel he can continue indefinitely given his incredible stamina before then ragdolling with the Force. Or barring that just straight out ragdoll consider the power gap between himself and Mace.

Syndicate
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Mace Windu takes this.

http://mobile-cuisine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/raisin-fun-facts.jpg

Syndicate
Originally posted by McP
How is Starkiller superior to Mace physically? He fell onto his knees after Vader stabed him, while Mace still fought Depa after she stabed him. And after that he stomped Kar also.

Mace was also a superior duelist. As I remember Starkiller was inferior even to Vader, and gain the advantage only because of FL. And he wasn't even superior duelist to Shaak Ti.

He's superior in terms of using the Force, but Mace isn't a pushover. More then that, I believe that Marek has more credit then he deserves.
He had his one moment against Sidious, when he gave far more then 100% of himself, and still died. A feat inferior to Yoda's and Talzin's feats against Sidious. And normally, Sidious would stomp him, like he did in DS ending.

Mace takes this.

Simple he's younger and has a stronger connection to the Force. Oh and feats.

He's dealt with Vader's power blows without issue by the end of TFU so nothing Mace is throwing out will test his limits. Speedwise he's described to be faster then Vader.

"Where Darth Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly."

He's described to have superhuman agility and perfect balance multiple times throughout the novel.

"Sparks flew as the apprentice Force-leapt high into the air as he landed on top of a stack of crates."

"So the duel proceeded for almost a minute, with Kenobi and the apprentice dancing like acrobatic Gados from stack to stack."

"The men leapt and tumbled with inhuman agility."

Endurance wise if you've read the novel you know Galen has fought through entire populations and Imperial garrisons before facing opponents or obstacles that tested him to his limits not to mention him outlasting Vader in the end of TFU and being able to last hours in a duel against Vader pre prime before growing more powerful and being stated to have been rebuilt stronger then before.

"The Apprentice crouched face down in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to one mistake his Master had made.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before." - The Force Unleashed.

A great example of his durability being the above. What would have killed any normal person and exploded their organs and shattered their bones simply gave him cracked ribs.

Along with that it should be noted he has a high amount of pain tolerance given he can seemingly handle the heat of a lightsaber blade against his skin and managed to survive being stabbed in the gut before being thrown out into space. He basically willed himself to keep living in circumstances where he should have died much like Sion or Vader.

Pre prime Galen Marek was being pressured by Shaak Ti on a Light Side nexus after he had just thought through an army of force users who could use the force as easily as other beings could breath while she had an entire world at her command, yes.

Vader vs. Starkiller is a debate for another time though you should know what you just said isn't entirely true. We're talking about Galen here who was very much above TFU Vader.

It's physically impossible to give more then 100% of yourself in terms of, well, anything.

Given the fact that Talzin was in her center of power and this was before Sidious's prime... Also Yoda and Galen had around the same success, Galen just had to keep him and the Emperor locked in their engagement to allow his friends time to escape. Yoda had no such worries and thus broke it off before running away.

Mace loses. Badly.

Syndicate
You know what, I'm going to be honest. I was trying to be nice for the sake of people's sensibilities but tbh Galen stomps.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lmfao.

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lmfao.

Let's go. ;P

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Anyone with a logical synapse in their brain realises that only the top top tiers, (Luke, Sidious, Valkorion) have the capability to stomp Windu.

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Anyone with a logical synapse in their brain realises that only the top top tiers, (Luke, Sidious, Valkorion) have the capability to stomp Windu.

Fine. But he beats him solidly. I'm tired of this forum underrating Ventress, Galen and my Grievy poo.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You mean the people who the forum thinks:

A: isn't a peak Anakin tier swordsman

B: Doesn't stomp the shit out of Windu, defeat peak Vader, etc

C: defeat peak Anakin in a duel

That doesn't sound like any sort of criminal underration to me. smile

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You mean the people who the forum thinks:

A: isn't a peak Anakin tier swordsman

B: Doesn't stomp the shit out of Windu, defeat peak Vader, etc

C: defeat peak Anakin in a duel

That doesn't sound like any sort of criminal underration to me. smile

Given Ventress's feats it is.

For Galen I was somewhat joking and you know it.

The fact that you guys wouldn't even entertain the idea that Grievous could win against Anakin in a lightsabers only duel is what frustrated me. You treated it like a joke when it's actually a great fight.

deathslash
Mate should lose more times than not.

Syndicate
Originally posted by deathslash
Mate should lose more times than not.

Thank you! ( I think you meant Mace ) Somebody else with some sense!

hutchy1345
Windus sabers advantage is too much for galen imo

Syndicate
Originally posted by hutchy1345
Windus sabers advantage is too much for galen imo Did you even read the first page? :/

hutchy1345
Originally posted by Syndicate
Did you even read the first page? :/
I did yes

TheNuisanceBird
Originally posted by McP
How is Starkiller superior to Mace physically? He fell onto his knees after Vader stabed him, while Mace still fought Depa after she stabed him. And after that he stomped Kar also.

Mace was also a superior duelist. As I remember Starkiller was inferior even to Vader, and gain the advantage only because of FL. And he wasn't even superior duelist to Shaak Ti.

He's superior in terms of using the Force, but Mace isn't a pushover. More then that, I believe that Marek has more credit then he deserves.
He had his one moment against Sidious, when he gave far more then 100% of himself, and still died. A feat inferior to Yoda's and Talzin's feats against Sidious. And normally, Sidious would stomp him, like he did in DS ending.

Mace takes this.

hutchy1345
Yes that^

Syndicate
And I responded to that in the last post of the first page.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
For who? Mace? Look friend, I don't think you're understanding but Galen has the capacity to carry out high intensity duels and run out the endurance of people like Vader. He doesn't need to outskill Mace. Simply exhaust him in a high intensity duel he can continue indefinitely given his incredible stamina before then ragdolling with the Force. Or barring that just straight out ragdoll consider the power gap between himself and Mace.


friend, i never in any point even brought up or questioned Galens endurance. I have admitted that Galen is physically stronger so I'm not sure what your trying to prove with 70%+ of your post about his endurance. So your now making the claim all hens to do is outlast. Out lasting means nothing when the opponent is going to woop you in sabers. Obi wan arguably has the greatest soresu defense, and Galen learned from a imitation of Obi wan, so his defense definitely wont hold up enough for either Vaapad to kick in, or Mace's pure skill advantage to show. I do agree Galen is strong, but i don't see him ranking amongst the greatest like Yoda, Sidious, Dooku Windu etc. Heck i even see people like Obi Wan who has a very strong defense either would win or hold off.

The gap you imagine between Galen in Mace is overestimated. Mace like Galen has also wiped out entire armies, and used the force in many powerful waves. Galen lightning its entirely possibly will be shoved back at him as seen by Mace's fight with palpatine. So with all that yes I can agree Galen has an edge over Mace in the force, but not as big as Mace does with the saber, and if we go by what your saying making this a war of endurance, he won't make it due to mace working his way into his guard and cutting him down.

hutchy1345
And this guy has it summed up ^

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
friend, i never in any point even brought up or questioned Galens endurance. I have admitted that Galen is physically stronger so I'm not sure what your trying to prove with 70%+ of your post about his endurance. So your now making the claim all hens to do is outlast. Out lasting means nothing when the opponent is going to woop you in sabers. Obi wan arguably has the greatest soresu defense, and Galen learned from a imitation of Obi wan, so his defense definitely wont hold up enough for either Vaapad to kick in, or Mace's pure skill advantage to show. I do agree Galen is strong, but i don't see him ranking amongst the greatest like Yoda, Sidious, Dooku Windu etc. Heck i even see people like Obi Wan who has a very strong defense either would win or hold off.

The gap you imagine between Galen in Mace is overestimated. Mace like Galen has also wiped out entire armies, and used the force in many powerful waves. Galen lightning its entirely possibly will be shoved back at him as seen by Mace's fight with palpatine. So with all that yes I can agree Galen has an edge over Mace in the force, but not as big as Mace does with the saber, and if we go by what your saying making this a war of endurance, he won't make it due to mace working his way into his guard and cutting him down.

Except as I showed in my last post Mace isn't capable of whooping Galen in sabers given their comparative feats. Even if he could he wouldn't be able to break through Galen's defenses before tiring out and being overwhelmed. Think about it like this. Vader was able to duel with Galen for hours until the latter passed out from exhaustion but in their final duel he only managed to fight him for minutes before becoming exhausted to the point Galen could overwhelm him. I'm sure Vader's endurance and power in the force is above Mace's so it stands to reason that he'd be defeated even more quickly by Galen if they were to enter a high intensity duel. The skill gap between them just isn't large enough for Mace to take it before Galen exhausts him or simply weakens him to the point where he can be overwhelmed with the Force. Hell I'm still think it might be possible for Galen to do this outright. Galen learned from Vader and trained with a module of Kenobi. Vaapad to kick in? What do you mean? Vaapad never worked as fully intended until Mace's final duel with Sidious and Galen by the end of TFU is a lightsider. Mace's pure skill advantage doesn't mean jack shit against a physically superior, more powerful and comparably skilled opponent like Galen who can keep up a high intensity duel indefinitely. Well then you're plain wrong. His force feats are superior, his physicals are superior with his endurance and force reserves being some of the greatest in the mythos and his skill feats are comparable if not outright on par. Lol Obi Wan? He'd be ragdolled. If you disagree with anything I've said prove me wrong.

Syndicate
Originally posted by hutchy1345
And this guy has it summed up ^

And I countered both. If you have nothing to add then I'd stay silent.

Syndicate
Since apparently can't seem to remember a post from the last page either...

Originally posted by Syndicate
Simple he's younger and has a stronger connection to the Force. Oh and feats.

He's dealt with Vader's power blows without issue by the end of TFU so nothing Mace is throwing out will test his limits. Speedwise he's described to be faster then Vader.

"Where Darth Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly."

He's described to have superhuman agility and perfect balance multiple times throughout the novel.

"Sparks flew as the apprentice Force-leapt high into the air as he landed on top of a stack of crates."

"So the duel proceeded for almost a minute, with Kenobi and the apprentice dancing like acrobatic Gados from stack to stack."

"The men leapt and tumbled with inhuman agility."

Endurance wise if you've read the novel you know Galen has fought through entire populations and Imperial garrisons before facing opponents or obstacles that tested him to his limits not to mention him outlasting Vader in the end of TFU and being able to last hours in a duel against Vader pre prime before growing more powerful and being stated to have been rebuilt stronger then before.

"The Apprentice crouched face down in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to one mistake his Master had made.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before." - The Force Unleashed.

A great example of his durability being the above. What would have killed any normal person and exploded their organs and shattered their bones simply gave him cracked ribs.

Along with that it should be noted he has a high amount of pain tolerance given he can seemingly handle the heat of a lightsaber blade against his skin and managed to survive being stabbed in the gut before being thrown out into space. He basically willed himself to keep living in circumstances where he should have died much like Sion or Vader.

Pre prime Galen Marek was being pressured by Shaak Ti on a Light Side nexus after he had just thought through an army of force users who could use the force as easily as other beings could breath while she had an entire world at her command, yes.

Vader vs. Starkiller is a debate for another time though you should know what you just said isn't entirely true. We're talking about Galen here who was very much above TFU Vader.

It's physically impossible to give more then 100% of yourself in terms of, well, anything.

Given the fact that Talzin was in her center of power and this was before Sidious's prime... Also Yoda and Galen had around the same success, Galen just had to keep him and the Emperor locked in their engagement to allow his friends time to escape. Yoda had no such worries and thus broke it off before running away.

Mace loses. Badly.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Except as I showed in my last post Mace isn't capable of whooping Galen in sabers given their comparative feats. Even if he could he wouldn't be able to break through Galen's defenses before tiring out and being overwhelmed. Think about it like this. Vader was able to duel with Galen for hours until the latter passed out from exhaustion but in their final duel he only managed to fight him for minutes before becoming exhausted to the point Galen could overwhelm him. I'm sure Vader's endurance and power in the force is above Mace's so it stands to reason that he'd be defeated even more quickly by Galen if they were to enter a high intensity duel. The skill gap between them just isn't large enough for Mace to take it before Galen exhausts him or simply weakens him to the point where he can be overwhelmed with the Force. Hell I'm still think it might be possible for Galen to do this outright. Galen learned from Vader and trained with a module of Kenobi. Vaapad to kick in? What do you mean? Vaapad never worked as fully intended until Mace's final duel with Sidious and Galen by the end of TFU is a lightsider. Mace's pure skill advantage doesn't mean jack shit against a physically superior, more powerful and comparably skilled opponent like Galen who can keep up a high intensity duel indefinitely. Well then you're plain wrong. His force feats are superior, his physicals are superior with his endurance and force reserves being some of the greatest in the mythos and his skill feats are great. Lol Obi Wan? He'd be ragdolled. If you disagree with anything I've said prove me wrong.

Mace belongs to what is known as the golden age of the jedi, and has the feats to back it up. These feats involve his showings against Sidious, his accolades by other jedi masters, and his battle with Dooku, all of which are above Galen in sabers. Yes Galen is skilled, but in his prime he beat a Vader who wasn't in his prime. TFU II is arguably the better of the two versions, in which Galen had to rely on the force to defeat that vader and what he could best hope was a stalemate in that situation. How so? Mace is second only to Yoda, in the jedi order. Galen has a strong defense, but his defense isn't strong enough to turn this into a slugging match. he isn't going to make this come down to endurance. Galen doesn't have the Obi Wan defense to keep mace at bay for that long, while Mace has the aggressive and smart offense to break through before that times come. Again basically all of what you are saying, is hinged on the assumption Galen will make this a slugging match, and lets not kid ourselves, Mace has his won skill and endurance was well. Mace can last as well, while not for hours like Vader did with Galen, the whole situation is changed in which neither have met, so the don't have the ability to just turn this into a slugging match. Yes i have looked at both their feats, and yes Galen does have the more raw power as I've already admitted, but he has done absolutely nothing, that Mace either hasn't done, can replicate, or can stand against. Yes he stood against vader, but why don't you think Windu couldn't? Mace is powerful in his own right, and has demonstrated similar feats to Galen such as destroying huge armies, lifting ships, taking down heavy objects, etc. Heck Windu is even comparable if not even to Dooku who we've seen do some big feats. So i think you have fallen into the mold of Overestimating marek, and that translates here. Yes he has more power, but its not a big enough advantage Mace can fight.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lol @ endurance. Tol Braga fought a Dark Council Member for days on end. Let's not kid ourselves with this, "tiring out" shit tbh smile

carthage
Mace struggling to push an armored Republic Transport >> any of Galen's force showings

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by carthage
Mace not getting force raped by Sidious >> any of Galen's force showings

smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Mace belongs to what is known as the golden age of the jedi, and has the feats to back it up. These feats involve his showings against Sidious, his accolades by other jedi masters, and his battle with Dooku, all of which are above Galen in sabers. Yes Galen is skilled, but in his prime he beat a Vader who wasn't in his prime. TFU II is arguably the better of the two versions, in which Galen had to rely on the force to defeat that vader and what he could best hope was a stalemate in that situation. How so? Mace is second only to Yoda, in the jedi order. Galen has a strong defense, but his defense isn't strong enough to turn this into a slugging match. he isn't going to make this come down to endurance. Galen doesn't have the Obi Wan defense to keep mace at bay for that long, while Mace has the aggressive and smart offense to break through before that times come. Again basically all of what you are saying, is hinged on the assumption Galen will make this a slugging match, and lets not kid ourselves, Mace has his won skill and endurance was well. Mace can last as well, while not for hours like Vader did with Galen, the whole situation is changed in which neither have met, so the don't have the ability to just turn this into a slugging match. Yes i have looked at both their feats, and yes Galen does have the more raw power as I've already admitted, but he has done absolutely nothing, that Mace either hasn't done, can replicate, or can stand against. Yes he stood against vader, but why don't you think Windu couldn't? Mace is powerful in his own right, and has demonstrated similar feats to Galen such as destroying huge armies, lifting ships, taking down heavy objects, etc. Heck Windu is even comparable if not even to Dooku who we've seen do some big feats. So i think you have fallen into the mold of Overestimating marek, and that translates here. Yes he has more power, but its not a big enough advantage Mace can fight.

Feats to back what up? That he was born in the "Golden Age." I'm sure the only evidence he needs is a birth certificate with a nice golden age stamp at the top. If you somehow couldn't tell I have a great disdain for people that argue characters are powerful because of the era they were shown in. Feats or gtfo.

Oh, his showings against Sidious? We're going there now are we? I don't think you want to flush your reputation away like this Emp. Unless you want to argue base Mace could accomplish what he did against Sidious. -___-

Ah accolades. Always the best gauge of someone's actual capabilities. :sarcasm:

Battles with Dooku? You mean the spars they had when they were not yet in their primes and while Dooku was still apart of the Jedi Order which would have no relevancy on the capabilities of RotS Mace? Those battles with Dooku?

Except none of those things put him above Galen in sabers. Unless you want to argue beating Jedi Dooku is better then beating TFU Vader or that unsubstantiated accolades are better then hard feats.

First off. That was not Galen's prime. It was simply the most powerful we'll ever see him given that he expired shortly after that point. While this was not Vader's prime Vader has already had over a decades to rework his form and its noted in the novel itself that Vader has hybridalized his form. While I'm aware Vader improved he would not be hindered in any way by his new circumstances as he'd already been living with them for over a decade.

Vader definitely improved between TFUI and TFUII and he also planned for if one of the clones he was creating was to ever turn against him evidenced by his defensive stance in the second novel and the improvements to his armor. This means he specifically prepared for the fight. Also I don't believe there's anything suggesting Starkiller is more powerful.

An unsubstantiated statement that's debatable given his performance against Grievous, Grievous's performance against Dooku and Dooku's own performance against Anakin. Granted Dooku had the advantage of training Grievous and being intimately familiar with his fighting style and Anakin had a form and physical advantage over Dooku but obviously that statement either only BARELY places him above the rest of the Jedi or is simply false. Actually I believe there's a quote from the RotS novelization that states Anakin to be the fastest, strongest and most powerful Jedi of his generation. Oh here it is.

"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So much for Mace being second to Yoda.

Regardless even if your own statement did supersede mine or we're now suddenly disregarding statements given the various performances of Jedi in that era throughout the mythos there's nothing putting Mace out of the range of the higher tiered Jedi in that era. Granted the PT era is full of powerful Jedi.

Also I'd like that quote as I'd like to see if it specifies what he's second in and when it was written.. Otherwise how am I supposed to know if he's the second most powerful, second most skilled, or second highest ranked? :P

And what are basing that assumption off of? Mace's supposed superiority which is questionable at best.

Aggressive and smart offense? You mean like the one he used to break through Grievous's defense? Oh wait... The only opponents Mace has ever beaten purely with his lightsaber unamped has been a pre prime Ventress who he needed all his skills to defeat.

Nah, that's only one way Galen can win. The other way is him simply dominating Mace outright with TK.

What feats of endurance does Mace have to suggest this to you?

Why? Them not knowing eachother at all makes this even more likely to devolve to such a match. The fight would last longer because like Vader and Galen in their own fight they would need to test the capabilities of their opponent.

In the Force he's done plenty. I also question Mace's ability to defeat TFU Vader as convincingly as Galen or at all and finnally I question his ability to face entire armies before facing opponents/obstacles that would have given him a challenge in normal circumstances in an environment that favors his opponent given his fight against Kar Vastor where such circumstances were present and he lost badly.

Because Vader is physically superior, more powerful and arguably more skilled by that point.

You mean the droid armies. A good showing of force enhanced strength but not one Galen can't replicate or handle given his fight against Vader and Vader's own strength feats. Lifting ships? When? Heavy objects like a Star Destroyer or even thousands of droids? Doubtful.

Comparable sure but I don't believe Dooku is on Galen's level either.

I think you'd fallen into the mold of underestimating him.

Syndicate
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Lol @ endurance. Tol Braga fought a Dark Council Member for days on end. Let's not kid ourselves with this, "tiring out" shit tbh smile

Great endurance feat for him but given their opponent it's likely that this would be within the realm of their capabilities. High intensity duels between force users exhausts you far faster then ones between weaker force users or non force users.

Prof. T.C McAbe
Mace roflstomps 10/10.

Syndicate
Are you guys just calling in people to say Mace wins to piss me off now? :suspicious:

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Feats to back what up? That he was born in the "Golden Age." I'm sure the only evidence he needs is a birth certificate with a nice golden age stamp at the top. If you somehow couldn't tell I have a great disdain for people that argue characters are powerful because of the era they were shown in. Feats or gtfo.

Oh, his showings against Sidious? We're going there now are we? I don't think you want to flush your reputation away like this Emp. Unless you want to argue base Mace could accomplish what he did against Sidious. -___-

Ah accolades. Always the best gauge of someone's actual capabilities. :sarcasm:

Battles with Dooku? You mean the spars they had when they were not yet in their primes and while Dooku was still apart of the Jedi Order which would have no relevancy on the capabilities of RotS Mace? Those battles with Dooku?

Except none of those things put him above Galen in sabers. Unless you want to argue beating Jedi Dooku is better then beating TFU Vader or that unsubstantiated accolades are better then hard feats.

First off. That was not Galen's prime. It was simply the most powerful we'll ever see him given that he expired shortly after that point. While this was not Vader's prime Vader has already had over a decades to rework his form and its noted in the novel itself that Vader has hybridalized his form. While I'm aware Vader improved he would not be hindered in any way by his new circumstances as he'd already been living with them for over a decade.

Vader definitely improved between TFUI and TFUII and he also planned for if one of the clones he was creating was to ever turn against him evidenced by his defensive stance in the second novel and the improvements to his armor. This means he specifically prepared for the fight. Also I don't believe there's anything suggesting Starkiller is more powerful.

An unsubstantiated statement that's debatable given his performance against Grievous, Grievous's performance against Dooku and Dooku's own performance against Anakin. Granted Dooku had the advantage of training Grievous and being intimately familiar with his fighting style and Anakin had a form and physical advantage over Dooku but obviously that statement either only BARELY places him above the rest of the Jedi or is simply false. Actually I believe there's a quote from the RotS novelization that states Anakin to be the fastest, strongest and most powerful Jedi of his generation. Oh here it is.

"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So much for Mace being second to Yoda.

Regardless even if your own statement did supersede mine or we're now suddenly disregarding statements given the various performances of Jedi in that era throughout the mythos there's nothing putting Mace out of the range of the higher tiered Jedi in that era. Granted the PT era is full of powerful Jedi.

Also I'd like that quote as I'd like to see if it specifies what he's second in and when it was written.. Otherwise how am I supposed to know if he's the second most powerful, second most skilled, or second highest ranked? :P

And what are basing that assumption off of? Mace's supposed superiority which is questionable at best.

Aggressive and smart offense? You mean like the one he used to break through Grievous's defense? Oh wait... The only opponents Mace has ever beaten purely with his lightsaber unamped has been a pre prime Ventress who he needed all his skills to defeat.

Nah, that's only one way Galen can win. The other way is him simply dominating Mace outright with TK.

What feats of endurance does Mace have to suggest this to you?

Why? Them not knowing eachother at all makes this even more likely to devolve to such a match. The fight would last longer because like Vader and Galen in their own fight they would need to test the capabilities of their opponent.

In the Force he's done plenty. I also question Mace's ability to defeat TFU Vader as convincingly as Galen or at all and finnally I question his ability to face entire armies before facing opponents/obstacles that would have given him a challenge in normal circumstances in an environment that favors his opponent given his fight against Kar Vastor where such circumstances were present and he lost badly.

Because Vader is physically superior, more powerful and arguably more skilled by that point.

You mean the droid armies. A good showing of force enhanced strength but not one Galen can't replicate or handle given his fight against Vader and Vader's own strength feats. Lifting ships? When? Heavy objects like a Star Destroyer or even thousands of droids? Doubtful.

Comparable sure but I don't believe Dooku is on Galen's level either.

I think you'd fallen into the mold of underestimating him.


Yes and i gave you the feats that show why his era is the golden age era. I am just using the golden age era thing just to help back mace, and I gave feats that show why this is.

Let me make one thing clear, yes I do know he had Vaapad to an extent unknown before, yes I do believe Sidious through the fight, but it doesn't change the fact that before he sunk into Vaapad he wasn't blitzed immediately, and was able to hold his own before going into Vaapad, an admirable feat lasting that long without it, since 3 the strong masters were taken out in 10 seconds.

it seems you like to discount accolades. Marek has those too. However i don't just put accolades there an let them stand i use feats to back them up which is what I have done.

No i mean the battle they had after the battle of Geonosis and Yoda's statements about the two in Yoda Dark rendezvous, since Yoda during that time had in fact already fought Dooku in AOTC and knows Mace and has sppared with him several times, he can comfortably say that those two would be equals.


Answered above.

I don't think you can say thats not his prime when you say next thats the most powerful we have seen him in.Also you have to consider, both Vader and Galen have had time to to understand each others style.

Yet statements made by Guillard and Insider 55 and statements made by Goerge Lucas say Windu is second most powerful and skilled Jedi after Yoda which take precedence over the books. Also Anakin is the most powerful in terms of Raw Power, not actual power.

I will get you those quotes after this post.

Oh I'm sorry weren't there specifics in his battle with Grevious? How both were hindered. Also doesn't Grevious have four sabers, and was trained by Doku, and has a very shacky record from being bale to do this to mace, and then in TCW being taken down by Fisto, and being made a fool of several times? His best showing maybe his battle against Maul in SOD since it is the most consistent you would expect from previous.

Him dominating Mace outright with TK, won't happen. His power is great but not that great.

Suggest what? I don't even think it will become a slugging match so yea.


When has Mace ever done that, felt his opponent up. He is most likely going to immdiannty go all out, like the warrior he his. He did have instruction by the ataru master yoda and his form is Vaapad which is a powerful aggressive form.

You can question all you wish, but at the end of the day Mace has faced off against entire armies all by himself and came out alive.

I never even called into question whether Galen could replicate that it just goes to show mace has replicated a strong feat of taking on entire armies by himself like marek has.

If i underestimated him, Galen would be crushed by Mace in sabers and be even with Mace in the force. I have been only fair here. Your the one saying Marek would stomp Mace badly.

EmperorSidious2
Nick Gillard : We didn't see Mace fighting yet, but we know that he is second only to Yoda...

- Source : Star Wars Episode II: Action Featurette
Mace is the second most powerful Jedi in the order ;

He seems to be second most powerful jedi on the that council, next to Yoda.

- Source : Insider #55
Mace is one of the most powerful Jedi in the order ;

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.(refers to Dooku)

- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Nick Gillard : We didn't see Mace fighting yet, but we know that he is second only to Yoda...

- Source : Star Wars Episode II: Action Featurette
Mace is the second most powerful Jedi in the order ;

He seems to be second most powerful jedi on the that council, next to Yoda.

- Source : Insider #55
Mace is one of the most powerful Jedi in the order ;

Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.(refers to Dooku)

- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Well I'd ask you then if any of the first 3 sources have any more authority then the RotS novelization and for the last that only applies at the time of Dark Rendezvous as is clearly understood due to Anakin's own victory over Dooku.

Syndicate
Now where's the rest of my response?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Well I'd ask you then if any of the first 3 sources have any more authority then the RotS novelization and for the last that only applies at the time of Dark Rendezvous as is clearly understood due to Anakin's own victory over Dooku.

I would say so, since Nick Guillard basically took order from Lucas, he represented Lucas on that front. These quotes go with it cause the head line basically says as of the clone wars, and Dark Rendezvous happened during the clone wars. Anakin had a sort of Super Saiyan moment, but still that is still ok to say, cause on a consistent basis yes Mace would be his equal.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Now where's the rest of my response?

What's the rest? I said I would shoe the quote of saying Mace is the most powerful and skilled after Yoda.

hutchy1345
"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So basically your taking that quote as literal as possible
Okay
So ROTS anakin is the strongest Jedi ever
Stronger than Loft Luke or any iteration of Luke
Then he would've been able to take out ROTS Sidious straight away, he wouldn't need to bow down to him
No
Mace is second to Yoda

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I would say so, since Nick Guillard basically took order from Lucas, he represented Lucas on that front. These quotes go with it cause the head line basically says as of the clone wars, and Dark Rendezvous happened during the clone wars. Anakin had a sort of Super Saiyan moment, but still that is still ok to say, cause on a consistent basis yes Mace would be his equal.

But it's based off your opinion then. :P

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
What's the rest? I said I would shoe the quote of saying Mace is the most powerful and skilled after Yoda.

Read it.

Syndicate
Originally posted by hutchy1345
"The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest." - Revenge of the Sith.

So basically your taking that quote as literal as possible
Okay
So ROTS anakin is the strongest Jedi ever
Stronger than Loft Luke or any iteration of Luke
Then he would've been able to take out ROTS Sidious straight away, he wouldn't need to bow down to him
No
Mace is second to Yoda

Personally, no. I'm showing Emp the silliness of relying on unsubstantiated quotes.

Also even if Anakin had been more powerful then Sidious it doesn't mean he was more knowledgeable which is the entire point of why he needed him. To save Padme.

Aside from that it says most powerful/strongest/fastest Jedi. Not force user.

Depending on the source you trust more or if you're like me and take feats over unsubstantiated statements.

hutchy1345
Ah right sorry then haha

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
But it's based off your opinion then. :P

Based off the level of canon. Movies take priority over everything. So Nick guild would take precedence over anything involving the novels, at least in regard to skill with the saber.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Read it.

I have shown everything I said I would I think.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Based off the level of canon. Movies take priority over everything. So Nick guild would take precedence over anything involving the novels, at least in regard to skill with the saber.

Given the fact that we're discussing the EU and levels of canon don't currently exist in it you're mistaken.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I have shown everything I said I would I think.

Fair enough. I respect your opinion even if I don't understand it.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Given the fact that we're discussing the EU and levels of canon don't currently exist in it you're mistaken.

Actaully I'm not mistaken. The levels of canon still apply when weighing canon sources against each other whcih we are doing. The movies and novelizations are still anon, but the Movies no matter what are always the original story. The books add in other details that were not originally in the movies.

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
Fair enough. I respect your opinion even if I don't understand it.

Thank you. I respect your even though you are slightly overestimating Marek.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Actaully I'm not mistaken. The levels of canon still apply when weighing canon sources against each other whcih we are doing. The movies and novelizations are still anon, but the Movies no matter what are always the original story. The books add in other details that were not originally in the movies.

All of the stuff from EU/Legends is on an even playing field since none of its considered canon and thus would be even with anything still considered canon if we're involving both. At least that's how I view it. Unless something is directly contradicting something else or is just blatant bad writing I don't see why you'd take something from one source over another.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Thank you. I respect your even though you are slightly overestimating Marek.

Had to get one more jab in eh? :P

hutchy1345
I think it's certain that galen marek would have surpassed windu greatly
But as he is shown in tfu I just think windu has the edge

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Syndicate
All of the stuff from EU/Legends is on an even playing field since none of its considered canon and thus would be even with anything still considered canon if we're involving both. At least that's how I view it. Unless something is directly contradicting something else or is just blatant bad writing I don't see why you'd take something from one source over another.

Cause one source is above another. Movies are greater than books,miso when trying to figure out those canon statements we had to see which one was above the other of there was one, and we found one.

Syndicate
Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Cause one source is above another. Movies are greater than books,miso when trying to figure out those canon statements we had to see which one was above the other of there was one, and we found one.

Na they're either all equally non canon or equally canon so when involving both they're just on a level playing field. Whatever system you had in place before is null because of current changes.

Edit: Going to be gone for the next 3 days.

Deronn_solo
Mace dildos.

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