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The battle takes place on land, but they're on a random beach.

No BFR

Who wins?

I call it a split.

Namor has proven he can hang with pretty much any strong guy in the MU on at any given time.
To me he's a top tier heavy weight; his strength and durability vary from story to story, and debate to debate.
Aquaman is also a top tier heavy weight, with a trident that adds long range attacks and various powers depending on how its being debated.
BA is a super heavy weight, though, in terms of durability, combat speed and lightning attacks if they're being factored in a debate.
1 on 1 i'd give BA a majority against either sea king, but 2 on 1 i believe it evens out.

They destroy him. BA would have his hands full with Namor alone. BA has no powers that can take advantage of Namor's weaknesses. This means he has no easy way to put him down.

Now add in AM to the mix and Adam dies.

So I guess we're just pretending Black Adam doesn't have super speed? Okay, then he totally loses to friggin Aquaman and Namor.

Adam rips their heads off.

Originally posted by zopzop
They destroy him. BA would have his hands full with Namor alone. BA has no powers that can take advantage of Namor's weaknesses. This means he has no easy way to put him down.

Now add in AM to the mix and Adam dies. Adam did lose to Ultraman, but Ultraman was one shotting high heralds and transtier level beings.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
Adam did lose to Ultraman, but Ultraman was one shotting high heralds and transtier level beings.
Yeah. I'm not holding the Ultraman loss against him.

AM has gone toe to toe with WW (who is BA's peer). You add in Namor and BA is dying.

Can you post those scans of AM going toe to toe with wonder woman?

Originally posted by Surtur
So I guess we're just pretending Black Adam doesn't have super speed? Okay, then he totally loses to friggin Aquaman and Namor.

I factored in BAs speed.

yeah a split is pretty good. the trident could be a problem at least a few times out of 10.

^^^Sweet.

What about Namor's trident?

Ba wins.

Reasoning? More fun with a reason. This is a conversation after all, you monosyllabic bastich.

Originally posted by riv6672
I factored in BAs speed.

I actually apologize. For some reason I still think of pre dcNU characters first when I see their names. So that version of Black Adam would definitely stomp here, but I am unsure as to how fast he currently is.

Fast enough to move the moon.

^^^Flash must be fast enough to move the universe, then.

Originally posted by Surtur
I actually apologize. For some reason I still think of pre dcNU characters first when I see their names. So that version of Black Adam would definitely stomp here, but I am unsure as to how fast he currently is.
No worries, i think of pre DCnu characters first, too!

Originally posted by Surtur
I actually apologize. For some reason I still think of pre dcNU characters first when I see their names. So that version of Black Adam would definitely stomp here, but I am unsure as to how fast he currently is.

Even if it was pre adam he aint beating these two

Originally posted by riv6672
Reasoning? More fun with a reason. This is a conversation after all, you monosyllabic bastich. Because is vastly stronger than either and significantly more durable and faster. He can put either down with just a few blows.

They would kick his ass good. Namor alone might merc him on the right day.

Originally posted by zopzop
BA has no powers that can take advantage of Namor's weaknesses. This means he has no easy way to put him down.

BA turns him into stone.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because is vastly stronger than either and significantly more durable and faster. He can put either down with just a few blows.

Based on what?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on what? based off of real life science of course! Is there even a point in asking him?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Based on what? Not that I'm saying he's wrong, but I'm curious if h1 can even pretend he knows the first thing about Black Adam

DCnU Black Adam is a permanent member of the yellow lantern corps. That means he can use the yellow lantern ring anytime he wants to, and is now part of his standard gear.

Is he able to use his ring here?

BA as a YL? OMG.

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/4551813-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+-+featuring+black+adam7.4-003.jpg

Now, are Namor/AM proof against such magicks? Considering BA gets his powers from the gods, and they (one would assume) would give him herald-level magical power to complement his herald level physical power, I would need to see proof of this.

Though, to be fair, Aquaman at least has mystical protections, although they may be specfic....

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Even if it was pre adam he aint beating these two

Wait what? He could just utterly blitz both of them.

Adam did aid Sinestro in moving the moon. Think Namor could probably do the same thing.

Originally posted by Surtur
Wait what? He could just utterly blitz both of them.

What combat speed feats does he have that say he's faster than both?

None. Although, if a character has almost no feats, we default to pre-52, right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/120679/4551813-justice+league+of+america+%282013-%29+-+featuring+black+adam7.4-003.jpg

Now, are Namor/AM proof against such magicks? Considering BA gets his powers from the gods, and they (one would assume) would give him herald-level magical power to complement his herald level physical power, I would need to see proof of this.

Though, to be fair, Aquaman at least has mystical protections, although they may be specfic....

Wack.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
None. Although, if a character has almost no feats, we default to pre-52, right?

Yea

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
None. Although, if a character has almost no feats, we default to pre-52, right?

This was apparently the current version, but I said the pre NuDC version could stomp. His combat feats including fighting Jay Garrick at super speed. Running at near the speed of light, etc. If you can fight Jay Garrick at super speed, you can blitz friggin Namor and Aquaman, I think you'd agree?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/3494468-8043952237-29559.jpg

Originally posted by Surtur
This was apparently the current version, but I said the pre NuDC version could stomp. His combat feats including fighting Jay Garrick at super speed. Running at near the speed of light, etc. If you can fight Jay Garrick at super speed, you can blitz friggin Namor and Aquaman, I think you'd agree?





Either this is Yellow Lantern N52 BA, who can transmute enemies into stone....

Or it is speedblitzing pre-52 BA...

Yellow Lantern Ring Black Adam
Bottom left is Superman

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FLjV0ckMCs8/Vs0W4OdaawI/AAAAAAAAN-Y/mwrvO1Vl-Hk/s640/Sinestro1.jpg

Adam rarely if ever use that stone crap (and it was done on a human, AND it took time) but let's say he does try to transmute Namor, Aquaman mind rapes him. Please provide scans of New Adam resisting this.

How strong is a Pale Vicar?

Black Adam Keeps The Ring


http://www.hellocomic.com/sinestro/c21/p21

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
They would kick his ass good. Namor alone might merc him on the right day. Are you trolling? BA is more than 10times stronger and more than 100 times faster than Namor.

Originally posted by carver9
Adam rarely if ever use that stone crap
He's used it as often as Wally has IMP'd. With far, FAR fewer appearances.


So? Unless Namor/Arthur have any magical resistance, moot point.


Read the scan. INSTANTLY. What does that say to you?


Scans of N52 Aquaman mindraping? Not to mention, BA's lightning can hit multiple targets at the same time (I have scans).

But please, scans of N52 Aquaman's mind raping, faster than Adam can say a word

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What combat speed feats does he have that say he's faster than both?

I could only see two, when he blitzed a Pale Bishop:

http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SIN_17_3-580x892.jpg

And Ultraman:

http://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/ultraman-vs-black-adam.jpg

Considering how few appearances he has...

Full scan of the earlier scene, btw. To show how I would equate his herald level physical power, with his magical power (otherwise, the gods must be crazy...to give him physical power, and weakass magic). Therefore, it doesn't matter if he 'only' used it on a human - that's like saying he 'only' crushed a wooden club:

http://s22.postimg.org/jscj97ra9/Justice_League_of_America_2013_Featuring_Bl.jpg

Namor and AM would win this.

He'd probably be able to turn at least one of them to stone. At least they can then say "I was turned to stone by chest lightning". Small few can say that.

Just because a spell worked on a normal average person dosent mean it would work on super humans,namor for one has faced magicians before

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's used it as often as Wally has IMP'd. With far, FAR fewer appearances.


So? Unless Namor/Arthur have any magical resistance, moot point.


Read the scan. INSTANTLY. What does that say to you?


Scans of N52 Aquaman mindraping? Not to mention, BA's lightning can hit multiple targets at the same time (I have scans).

But please, scans of N52 Aquaman's mind raping, faster than Adam can say a word

Lol...I don't debate imps.

Lol...he transmute a human. DCNU Superman doesn't have fts of resisting such an attack...are you implying he would transmute him as well?

Lol...you're arguing against Thor speed and he has a ft of him INSTANTLY reacting to an attack from Phoenix. Does that give him instantaneous speed or are you being picky?

I don't need to show a scan of mind raping...I can do better. Aquaman stabs Adam in the back of the head with his Trident while Adam is busy TRYING to turn Namor to stone (lol).

So Adam will be turning Namor to stone while at the same time hitting Aquaman with lightning? Hilarious. Have scans of that?

Adam gets stabbed in the brain by Aquaman. Got any piercing resistant fts?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I could only see two, when he blitzed a Pale Bishop:

http://13thdimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/SIN_17_3-580x892.jpg

And Ultraman:

http://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/ultraman-vs-black-adam.jpg

Considering how few appearances he has...

Lame speed fts.

Oh btw, namor being royalty is a magical conduit for spells in atlantis,his very blood is a powerful magical ingredient too.

Originally posted by Genii96
Just because a spell worked on a normal average person dosent mean it would work on super humans,namor for one has faced magicians before

A magic transmutation usually isn't something you can resist with sheer durability. Namor has faced magicians before. Okay...? It would be helpful if you were less vague. Like "Namor faced magicians that tried to turn him to stone and they failed". Just the fact he has faced people with magic doesn't mean anything. I don't really know what to do with "well he faced magicians before".

Originally posted by Genii96
Just because a spell worked on a normal average person dosent mean it would work on super humans,namor for one has faced magicians before

Hence why I posted the full scan.

'The gods themselves gave Adam great power to help him avenge his family. Power both physical, and magical.'

In the scan, he crushes a wooden club. Then turns a human into stone.

Shall I say that the gods only gave Adam club crushing level strength? And the ability to only turn humans into stone?

Course not. We know that Adam has strength FAR in excess of crushing wooden clubs.

So the next step of thinking is, did the gods give Adam herald level strength....but only human level magical power?? That is an incredible leap of logic.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I don't debate imps.

Lol...he transmute a human. DCNU Superman doesn't have fts of resisting such an attack...are you implying he would transmute him as well?

Lol...you're arguing against Thor speed and he has a ft of him INSTANTLY reacting to an attack from Phoenix. Does that give him instantaneous speed or are you being picky?

I don't need to show a scan of mind raping...I can do better. Aquaman stabs Adam in the back of the head with his Trident while Adam is busy TRYING to turn Namor to stone (lol).

So Adam will be turning Namor to stone while at the same time hitting Aquaman with lightning? Hilarious. Have scans of that?

Adam gets stabbed in the brain by Aquaman. Got any piercing resistant fts?

Whether you debate IMPs or not, is moot. They are an accepted feat for Wally. I don't see why Adam, with about 4 appearances in the DCnU, is not allowed this feat. 1 feat out of 4 is a pretty good number, no?

Lol. He crushed a wooden club. Are you saying that is the limit of the Strength of Amon is wooden club level? No? Then why is the Power of Aton limited to human level?

I'm not saying he has instantaneous reaction feats. I am saying that the spell is instant. On panel. Don;t get why you are arguing against it. Clear as day. With Thor, he then has a whole slew of other feats that count AGAINST his speed. Do you have scans of BA's slow speed? Please post them.

So no scans of mind raping (thought not, lol. Concession accepted)

Multiple attackers at once with lightning? Sure. Note he is also in the sky bombarding five attackers and sparing the innocents. Aquaman cannot fly, last I checked.

http://s9.postimg.org/g1xanusjz/Justice_League_of_America_2013_Featuring_Bl.jpg

*drops mic*

Edit: SEVEN attackers, at once.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hence why I posted the full scan.

'The gods themselves gave Adam great power to help him avenge his family. Power both physical, and magical.'

In the scan, he crushes a wooden club. Then turns a human into stone.

Shall I say that the gods only gave Adam club crushing level strength?
The thing is, Adam has already displayed his strength to be above club crushing,now let me ask you a question.
Say Adam's only appearance is that scene where he kills that guy,now assuming that's his ONLY appearance, would you say he has herald level strength? No ofcourse not. We KNOW his strength is far above club level because he has SHOWN that. Has he shown his magical/spell casting side to be above average human level? When he has faced herald level,or even above normal human level has his magical spell casting come into play?.
THAT is why you can't assume he can do that to anyone,or would you say he could do that to clark?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hence why I posted the full scan.

'The gods themselves gave Adam great power to help him avenge his family. Power both physical, and magical.'

In the scan, he crushes a wooden club. Then turns a human into stone.

Shall I say that the gods only gave Adam club crushing level strength? And the ability to only turn humans into stone?

Course not. We know that Adam has strength FAR in excess of crushing wooden clubs.

So the next step of thinking is, did the gods give Adam herald level strength....but only human level magical power?? That is an incredible leap of logic.



Whether you debate IMPs or not, is moot. They are an accepted feat for Wally. I don't see why Adam, with about 4 appearances in the DCnU, is not allowed this feat. 1 feat out of 4 is a pretty good number, no?

Lol. He crushed a wooden club. Are you saying that is the limit of the Strength of Amon is wooden club level? No? Then why is the Power of Aton limited to human level?

I'm not saying he has instantaneous reaction feats. I am saying that the spell is instant. On panel. Don;t get why you are arguing against it. Clear as day. With Thor, he then has a whole slew of other feats that count AGAINST his speed. Do you have scans of BA's slow speed? Please post them.

So no scans of mind raping (thought not, lol. Concession accepted)

Multiple attackers at once with lightning? Sure. Note he is also in the sky bombarding five attackers and sparing the innocents. Aquaman cannot fly, last I checked.

http://s9.postimg.org/g1xanusjz/Justice_League_of_America_2013_Featuring_Bl.jpg

*drops mic*

Edit: SEVEN attackers, at once.

why bring up Imp when i dont care for it?

If that is Adam only showing, crushing wood then yes, that is the limit of his strength. Too bad we have other showings showcasing Adam strength.

The spell traversed a human into stone. You never answered my question about Clark by the way.

Aquaman has controlled fish. Fish have brains so I guess that means he can control Adam as well. Ya know, the same way Adam can turn Namor into stone (even though he has not done a super human like that).

I asked you to show me a scan of Black Adam turning someone into stone while at the same time, blasting someone with lightning. Does that exist?

Please pick the mic back up because you didn't prove anything.

Originally posted by carver9
why bring up Imp when i dont care for it?

If that is Adam only showing, crushing wood then yes, that is the limit of his strength. Too bad we have other showings showcasing Adam strength.

The spell traversed a human into stone. You never answered my question about Clark by the way.

Aquaman has controlled fish. Fish have brains so I guess that means he can control Adam as well. Ya know, the same way Adam can turn Namor into stone (even though he has not done a super human like that).

I asked you to show me a scan of Black Adam turning someone into stone while at the same time, blasting someone with lightning. Does that exist?

Please pick the mic back up because you didn't prove anything.

Because YOU ignoring it, doesn't mean it is invalid.

We do. The panel also clearly states his physical AND magical powers were all given by the gods - so are you saying they only gave him human level magical powers?

And yes, he will transmute Clark.

Except DCnU Aquaman has shown he does not control minds. On panel . You really should try debating with someone who doesn't keep up with Aquaman.

Moving the goalposts, eh? Please read my original post on multiple attackers. I specifically asked if Namor has shown any resistance to magical attacks. Should be easy to show, right? Namor has a looooong history.

This thread...

Can namor or aquaman do to superman what Adam did to him?

And before someone says he was holding back, can namor or aquaman do that to him?

^ Return of the king...

Originally posted by carver9
Lame speed fts.

Is that what it was supposed to be?

Originally posted by carver9
Lame speed fts.

I know, right?

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk has speed fts of moving in a blur, something that this Doomsday clearly wasn't doing.

Originally posted by carver9
Wasnt impressed by your speed fts. You show Orion moving in a blur, the same scans I posted of Hulk.



What speed feats do you speak of, carver?



Oh wow, so these are counted as speed feats...but BA's are lame? Even though he has like four appearances (his first, his Villains Month appearance, his Forever Evil appearance and his Sinestro Corps appearance)?

Great work.

I may have to change my mind on a split. This is looking more like a BA majority.
Sweet repping, DS.

Nice to see his bad assness carried over in the reboot. Captain Marvel i have not been fond of.

Y is nu adam being discussed? He doesnt have enough appearances tp warrant a thread.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Y is nu adam being discussed? He doesnt have enough appearances tp warrant a thread.

Post crisis Adam is too fast for them.

Originally posted by Surtur
Post crisis Adam is too fast for them.

He's not so there's that

Originally posted by Sin I AM
He's not so there's that

I posted a feat of him fighting with Jay Garrick at super speed. Something neither Aquaman nor Namor could ever hope to accomplish. Jay wasn't anywhere near as fast as Wally, but he wasn't exactly slow either.

Originally posted by Surtur
I posted a feat of him fighting with Jay Garrick at super speed. Something neither Aquaman nor Namor could ever hope to accomplish. Jay wasn't anywhere near as fast as Wally, but he wasn't exactly slow either.

Outlier

Namor's taken Whizzer while outnumbered...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_Z96rcYLQeQ/VXt_e-uw0oI/AAAAAAAAoE8/ZyEFxjzh19o/s1600/av155_23.jpg

Black Adam

Although both Namor and Arthur are strong they severely lack speed compared to Adam.

Originally posted by Surtur
I posted a feat of him fighting with Jay Garrick at super speed. Something neither Aquaman nor Namor could ever hope to accomplish. Jay wasn't anywhere near as fast as Wally, but he wasn't exactly slow either. Adam is fast but he doesn't really have a tendency to fight like that against other bricks. He was kind of force to fight like that against Jay but he may not resort to using his speed and would most likely brawl it out with Namor and AM instead.

Of course if he did use that speed it'd be an asset but it's unlikely that he would. You gotta take character into consideration in these fights unless of course they're blood lusted.

Namor and Aquaman Drop him. Speed isnt making a difference here

Nah, if he fought them the same way he fought Jay he'd trounce them quite easily

Originally posted by RadZoa
Adam is fast but he doesn't really have a tendency to fight like that against other bricks. He was kind of force to fight like that against Jay but he may not resort to using his speed and would most likely brawl it out with Namor and AM instead.

Of course if he did use that speed it'd be an asset but it's unlikely that he would. You gotta take character into consideration in these fights unless of course they're blood lusted.

Adam is usually bloodlusted, and why would he let himself get beat to death?

Originally posted by riv6672
Namor's taken Whizzer while outnumbered...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_Z96rcYLQeQ/VXt_e-uw0oI/AAAAAAAAoE8/ZyEFxjzh19o/s1600/av155_23.jpg

You just illustrated something perfect actually. This scan is why the mere act of fighting someone with super speed isn't enough. This scan seems like classic speedster PIS you find a lot. Like when Quicksilver runs straight into Hulk's arm that he stuck out or something like that.

I mean Whizzer doesn't seem to really be using his speed there. Compare that to the BA speedfeat where they are specifically drawn fighting at super speed, with the narration even talking about it as well.

Also even if you want to take it at face value Whizzer is way slower then Jay Garrick.

I know, just threw it out there for conversation's sake.
Thanks for catching it!

Namor also reacted to blur,and was able to handle the members of the squadron supreme before hyperion showed up with his city. Quicksilver didn't run straight into hulk"s arm,he tried to blitz hulk,and hulk reacted,just because they are not speedsters dosent mean they can't react to one

Originally posted by Genii96
...just because they are not speedsters dosent mean they can't react to one
True.
A lot of super strong characters have at least superhuman reflexes. Hulk has caught tank rounds in flight. Those are NOT slow.

Originally posted by Genii96
Namor also reacted to blur,and was able to handle the members of the squadron supreme before hyperion showed up with his city. Quicksilver didn't run straight into hulk"s arm,he tried to blitz hulk,and hulk reacted,just because they are not speedsters dosent mean they can't react to one

There is at least one time I'm pretty sure he is running around Hulk in a circle and Hulk sticks his arm out and boom Quicksilver runs into it. You are essentially saying Hulk has reflexes on the level of Quicksilver.

Originally posted by Surtur
There is at least one time I'm pretty sure he is running around Hulk in a circle and Hulk sticks his arm out and boom Quicksilver runs into it. You are essentially saying Hulk has reflexes on the level of Quicksilver.

No, he was running at Hulk at super speed and got slapped.

Originally posted by carver9
No, he was running at Hulk at super speed and got slapped.

Okay, but that is still a variation of the classic speedster PIS.

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, but that is still a variation of the classic speedster PIS.

Why when Hulk has on numerous of occasions slapped speedsters in the face? Remember, he also outpaced Ironman by foot. Outran his thrusters.

Originally posted by carver9
Why when Hulk has on numerous of occasions slapped speedsters in the face? Remember, he also outpaced Ironman by foot. Outran his thrusters.

I guess if it was the very very weakest and slowest version of Quicksilver it might make some semblance of sense for Hulk to be able to do it.

Originally posted by Surtur
I guess if it was the very very weakest and slowest version of Quicksilver it might make some semblance of sense for Hulk to be able to do it.

Or is fast.

Originally posted by carver9
I agree with you Sorrow...I just think that showing was more in-depth. Also, I think this belongs here.


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/IndestructibleHulk12010.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/IndestructibleHulk12011.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/IndestructibleHulk12012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/comic/IndestructibleHulk12013.jpg

Originally posted by Surtur
Okay, but that is still a variation of the classic speedster PIS.

Not at all. Alot of bricks are that fast. A classic trope is speedsters being surprised at how fast bricks can be.

Originally posted by carver9
No, he was running at Hulk at super speed and got slapped. Speedsters get hit A LOT by bricks. Meanwhile characters who are fast but not speedsters like Spiderman have no problem dodging bricks like Hulk and Juggernaut.

Originally posted by RadZoa
Speedsters get hit A LOT by bricks. Meanwhile characters who are fast but not speedsters like Spiderman have no problem dodging bricks like Hulk and Juggernaut.

Spiderman has dodged Firelord and Silver Surfer, along with Thor, etc, etc...what is your point? Hulk has also punched Spiderman clean in his face without any issues.

You guys should know better than to be using PIS/CIS in debates.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Y is nu adam being discussed? He doesnt have enough appearances tp warrant a thread.

I reckon he has the feats to compete here. Namor and Aquaman are both strong, and have feats with speed - so does BA (blitzing Ultraman, a Guardian of the Universe - moreover, he has actually DEFEATED a Guardian, back in the past).

He now has a Yellow Lantern ring, and has transmutation abilities. The two on one advantage is kinda negated when your opponent can attack multiple targets at once with magical lightning (as shown), or can create multiple constructs.

Carver, the team's current biggest supporter, LOVES using this scan:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111117653/3738753-2041804435-28728.jpg

Magical lightning. Aquaman kinda falls there. And this is lightning from Shazam, no less.

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman has dodged Firelord and Silver Surfer, along with Thor, etc, etc...what is your point? Hulk has also punched Spiderman clean in his face without any issues. Firelord and Surfer aren't speedsters, Thor even less so, why you brought this up, I have no idea. My point was that speedsters have a tendency to get hit by bricks they normally wouldn't get hit by. Hulk's hit Spiderman before, and how many times has he missed? Yeah, that's what I thought

Originally posted by RadZoa
Firelord and Surfer aren't speedsters, Thor even less so, why you brought this up, I have no idea. My point was that speedsters have a tendency to get hit by bricks they normally wouldn't get hit by. Hulk's hit Spiderman before, and how many times has he missed? Yeah, that's what I thought

Does this only apply to Spiderman or am I able to bring up the speedsters that missed Batman or Deathstroke? Let me know.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I reckon he has the feats to compete here. Namor and Aquaman are both strong, and have feats with speed - so does BA (blitzing Ultraman, a Guardian of the Universe - moreover, he has actually DEFEATED a Guardian, back in the past).

He now has a Yellow Lantern ring, and has transmutation abilities. The two on one advantage is kinda negated when your opponent can attack multiple targets at once with magical lightning (as shown), or can create multiple constructs.

Carver, the team's current biggest supporter, LOVES using this scan:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111117653/3738753-2041804435-28728.jpg

Magical lightning. Aquaman kinda falls there. And this is lightning from Shazam, no less.

Excellent post, you spoil us, DS.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I reckon he has the feats to compete here. Namor and Aquaman are both strong, and have feats with speed - so does BA (blitzing Ultraman, a Guardian of the Universe - moreover, he has actually DEFEATED a Guardian, back in the past).

He now has a Yellow Lantern ring, and has transmutation abilities. The two on one advantage is kinda negated when your opponent can attack multiple targets at once with magical lightning (as shown), or can create multiple constructs.

Carver, the team's current biggest supporter, LOVES using this scan:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111117653/3738753-2041804435-28728.jpg

Magical lightning. Aquaman kinda falls there. And this is lightning from Shazam, no less.

U feel aa thogh he has enough feats to stack against these two?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I reckon he has the feats to compete here. Namor and Aquaman are both strong, and have feats with speed - so does BA (blitzing Ultraman, a Guardian of the Universe - moreover, he has actually DEFEATED a Guardian, back in the past).

He now has a Yellow Lantern ring, and has transmutation abilities. The two on one advantage is kinda negated when your opponent can attack multiple targets at once with magical lightning (as shown), or can create multiple constructs.

Carver, the team's current biggest supporter, LOVES using this scan:


Magical lightning. Aquaman kinda falls there. And this is lightning from Shazam, no less.

You can't use one instance of lightning to suggest it's as powerful as a different source of lightning. The scan suggest Aquaman can survive lightning that's hurts Superman and Wonder Woman as well and it seems to be the voltage we have no idea whether it's science controlling nature or magic either because it's not stated.

Given Frankenstein was able to restrain Shazam physically who had to resort to saying Shazam I'd say Black Adam if he is even stronger then Aquaman shouldn't be so by much. But on feats alone Aquaman has better strength feats so I wouldn't say he's faster.

Frankenstien restraining Shazam for a panel who had to break out of it by yelling Shazam


Frankenstein tossing Shazam


Same book. Aquaman grappling Frankenstien


In terms of speed Aquaman showed he was fast enough in Throne of Atlantis to react to Wonder Woman trying to lasso him and to land a punch on Superman who was at a distance from him.

In terms of Magic, Aquaman's trident absorbs and redirects magic shown in Aquaman Annual 1 where he absorbed Morgan Le Fei's magical attack apparently capable of destroying Hong Kong and sent it right back.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I reckon he has the feats to compete here. Namor and Aquaman are both strong, and have feats with speed - so does BA (blitzing Ultraman, a Guardian of the Universe - moreover, he has actually DEFEATED a Guardian, back in the past).

He now has a Yellow Lantern ring, and has transmutation abilities. The two on one advantage is kinda negated when your opponent can attack multiple targets at once with magical lightning (as shown), or can create multiple constructs.

Carver, the team's current biggest supporter, LOVES using this scan:


Magical lightning. Aquaman kinda falls there. And this is lightning from Shazam, no less.

You can't use one lightning instance to suggest what another lightning instance is capable of unless we either no the damage output of Adam's lightning or if we're just hyping it up on what we think it's able to do. The lightning instance in Throne of Atlantis we can't say whether it's natural or magical because we have no idea it's also a great showing if we consider Wonder Woman's feats of tanking Zeus lightning and Superman being shocked by like 10000 volts I believe and Aquaman survived lightning alongside them.

It's irrelevant though since Aquaman Annual 1 shows Aquaman's trident absorbs magic. Morgan Le Fey tried to use a magical blast to destroy Hong Kong and Aquaman absorbed it and sent it right back.

I doubt Black Adam is stronger since Aquaman has more and to be honest better physical feats.

Trinity Wars: Frankenstein restrained Shazam who had to say Shazam to get him off, and Frankenstien also through him sending him flying. Same comic event had Aquaman grappling with Frakenstein. Futures End Frankenstein fought on par with Teth for the most part loosing his arm though cause well he's a zombie and his limbs are stitched together.

Throne of Atlantis: Showcased Aquaman's speed he reacted to Wonder Woman attempting to lasso him. Also was able to get to and hit Superman when they were at a distance.

I feel Aquaman alone could beat him, Namor is just assurance.

Not agreeing, but its nice to see Aquaman repped so highly.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
You can't use one instance of lightning to suggest it's as powerful as a different source of lightning. The scan suggest Aquaman can survive lightning that's hurts Superman and Wonder Woman as well and it seems to be the voltage we have no idea whether it's science controlling nature or magic either because it's not stated.

Given Frankenstein was able to restrain Shazam physically who had to resort to saying Shazam I'd say Black Adam if he is even stronger then Aquaman shouldn't be so by much. But on feats alone Aquaman has better strength feats so I wouldn't say he's faster.

Frankenstien restraining Shazam for a panel who had to break out of it by yelling Shazam


Frankenstein tossing Shazam


Same book. Aquaman grappling Frankenstien


In terms of speed Aquaman showed he was fast enough in Throne of Atlantis to react to Wonder Woman trying to lasso him and to land a punch on Superman who was at a distance from him.

In terms of Magic, Aquaman's trident absorbs and redirects magic shown in Aquaman Annual 1 where he absorbed Morgan Le Fei's magical attack apparently capable of destroying Hong Kong and sent it right back.

True that, and agreed, BA's lightning is no ordinary lightning - it can be aimed with a lot of precision (hitting thugs in a crowd of people) and can also turn people into stone, as opposed to Ocean Master simply blasting it from the sky.

Using Frankenstein is...I get where you're coming from, but he's simply a brick with his fists and his strength.

BA is a flying brick, with a Yellow Lantern ring and magical lightning that he has used in his showings to turn people into stone, just because he wants to. I get that Aquaman can leap great distances (as seen with Morgan) but BA doesn't just sit in one patch of sky...he hurtles around (as seen with the Pale Vicar, and with Ultraman).

Moreover, if we're using Shazam as the yardstick, didn't BA utterly stomp him when he first appeared in the DCnU? My recollection on that is shaky, tbh.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True that, and agreed, BA's lightning is no ordinary lightning - it can be aimed with a lot of precision (hitting thugs in a crowd of people) and can also turn people into stone, as opposed to Ocean Master simply blasting it from the sky.

Using Frankenstein is...I get where you're coming from, but he's simply a brick with his fists and his strength.

BA is a flying brick, with a Yellow Lantern ring and magical lightning that he has used in his showings to turn people into stone, just because he wants to. I get that Aquaman can leap great distances (as seen with Morgan) but BA doesn't just sit in one patch of sky...he hurtles around (as seen with the Pale Vicar, and with Ultraman).

Moreover, if we're using Shazam as the yardstick, didn't BA utterly stomp him when he first appeared in the DCnU? My recollection on that is shaky, tbh.

Shazam has more feats since then like tossing Wonder Woman in Trinity Wars or trading a few Punches with Superman in the prelude before he was ganged up on by the League.

To my understanding Black Adam beat a Shazam who just received the powers so no really control of them even then the powers he split among the other Orphans were that of his own. Shazam really has no combat skill where as Aquaman in Annual 2 showed skill against Wonder Woman being able to break out of grapples or grappling and in Aquaman and The Others he showed skill combating Cheshire where he was going easy on her and disarmed her twice.

Even then Frankenstein was trading Punches with Black Adam in Futures End, he got his arm ripped off but I'd attribute that to being a guy covered in stitches and both pulling in opposition


I don't think speed should be a problem Aquaman doesn't run at Super speed what he does is charge at Super speed which was shown in Throne of Atlantis against Superman and Wonder Woman. Leaping is nothing but an upwards charge and by calculation Aquaman has been always been quicker on land due to the pressure being off if we look at his best estimated speed the faster then atleast base hypersonic feat when swimming that should put him massively hypersonic with charges and that's just by calculation. It's not far fetch since Mera was able to leap into this hypersonic air craft from the sea all the way pass clouds so that's considerable distance as well and Aquaman is usually ahead of her when swimming in a hurry.

The Yellow Ring probably is a nice attribute but what feats would you say Black Adam has with it? Would you say that his constructs are more durable then Hal as GL? Cause during the Graves arc Wonder Woman casually broke his with a backhand. She directly punched Graves Pretas protection and it was still covering him. Aquaman shattered that same Pretas protection with the back end of his trident, he was also the only one to pierce into Darkseid's body.

I honestly think omnidirectional magic would just be absorbed by the trident, shown in most of Teth's fights though like some of the ones you brought up like Ultraman or The Pale he doesn't really even use alot of Magic in a fight other then "Shazam" he tends to duke it out.

This is BA when he met Shazam:

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/shazam-meets-black-adam-for-the-first-time-4.jpg

So, if Frankenstein managed to subdue Shazam for a panel, BA did it with one hand, lol (AND Shazam was pretty pissed off at this point). He hadn't split his powers here. And control of powers is one thing, but am not sure how more control of your powers enables you to stop being overpowered?

This is him against a speedster:
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/99801/3134410-black+adam+and+darla.png

Speedblitzing Shazam:
http://static6.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/99801/3134101-billy+and+adam.png

As for multiple enemies:
http://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/get-him-2.jpg?w=620&h=917

Of course, not saying that his fear is > Hal's will - but it is pretty high up there. As to how strong they are, certainly they should be up there. Enough to give him a boos. Aquaman, incidentally, was THROWN by Flash when piercing Darkseid - proof that he does not possess the strength necessary, or the speed to stab.

As for the 'shown in most of his fights', he's had four appearances. The first showing with Billy, the Forever Evil showing, the Yellow Ring showing, and the Villains Month showing.

So, 25% of his appearances involve him transmuting someone into stone. Pretty good odds, I'd say.

One last point - it's not omnidirectional lightning.

http://s9.postimg.org/g1xanusjz/Justice_League_of_America_2013_Featuring_Bl.jpg

It can target specific...well, targets, lol. In a mob, it can pick out specific people, and hit them, whilst sparing innocents, as opposed to just spamming the battlefield a la OceanMaster, or a Thor. To defend against it, Aquaman would need a field around him, or a shield of some sort, which surrounds him. Or even be able to spin his trident at speeds to shield himself - and his back, when another bolt sneaks round (I've shown BA producing up to seven bolts to hit 7 targets).

Adam wins

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
One last point - it's not omnidirectional lightning.


It can target specific...well, targets, lol. In a mob, it can pick out specific people, and hit them, whilst sparing innocents, as opposed to just spamming the battlefield a la OceanMaster, or a Thor. To defend against it, Aquaman would need a field around him, or a shield of some sort, which surrounds him. Or even be able to spin his trident at speeds to shield himself - and his back, when another bolt sneaks round (I've shown BA producing up to seven bolts to hit 7 targets).

He's done so against Atlantean weaponry and has disarmed several Atlanteans spinning his trident. What feats does Black Adam's lightning even have to suggest it's going to harm Aquaman whose taken lightning alongside and able to harm Superman and Wonder Woman

Whereas Teth's is being used against humans who are less durable then Aquaman even the Batman instance Batman wears and insulated suit protecting him from Voltage and got dropped by a smaller dosage Orm even calling him fragile that's still better then random human fodder though in comparison. Later Aquaman takes Orm's purple lightning and this is it being spread through a current or over distance.

Not to mention OP suggested in partnering Aquaman up so he's not doing this solo I'd post links but the site doesn't let me at this point.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
He's done so against Atlantean weaponry and has disarmed several Atlanteans spinning his trident. What feats does Black Adam's lightning even have to suggest it's going to harm Aquaman whose taken lightning alongside and able to harm Superman and Wonder Woman

Whereas Teth's is being used against humans who are less durable then Aquaman even the Batman instance Batman wears and insulated suit protecting him from Voltage and got dropped by a smaller dosage Orm even calling him fragile that's still better then random human fodder though in comparison. Later Aquaman takes Orm's purple lightning and this is it being spread through a current or over distance.

Not to mention OP suggested in partnering Aquaman up so he's not doing this solo I'd post links but the site doesn't let me at this point.

And to turn it back on you - were the Atlantean missiles going at the speed of lightning?

As I've said, it isn't lightning the same way Orm's is. It can be aimed at specific targets, and can turn people to stone. Neither of which Orm's could do.

I know your next argument may well be, well, what feats does it have against superhumans? To which my reply would be, I would need to see proof that the gods who gave Adam power - both physical and magical - skimped on the magical part, and only gave him herald level strength, and street level magical power.

Edit: as for lightning:

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/4061745-aquaman+%282011-%29+034-003.jpg

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Given Frankenstein was able to restrain Shazam physically who had to resort to saying Shazam I'd say Black Adam if he is even stronger then Aquaman shouldn't be so by much. But on feats alone Aquaman has better strength feats so I wouldn't say he's faster.

Frankenstien restraining Shazam for a panel who had to break out of it by yelling Shazam

Just to point out - Shazam specifically said Frankenstein DIDN't have him, and who's to say he didn't say it to get out of Deadman's powers? Deadman is incredibly powerful, after all...


http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3276344-2013-08-28+06-47-50+-+justice+league+%282011-%29+023-008.jpg

And is THIS what you were referring to? Aquaman holds the trident in his hand - doesn't exactly look as if he is loving that lightning...


http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2894509-justiceleague_17_thegroup_009.jpg

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/2894513-justiceleague_17_thegroup_010.jpg

These are from his respect thread, btw. Not lowballing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And to turn it back on you - were the Atlantean missiles going at the speed of lightning?

As I've said, it isn't lightning the same way Orm's is. It can be aimed at specific targets, and can turn people to stone. Neither of which Orm's could do.

I know your next argument may well be, well, what feats does it have against superhumans? To which my reply would be, I would need to see proof that the gods who gave Adam power - both physical and magical - skimped on the magical part, and only gave him herald level strength, and street level magical power.

My next point would be what feats do these gods have that Black Adam draws his power from.

You've posted a scan of Black Adam grabbing a speedster with no speed feats and beating up Shazam who just got the abilities.

I commented on Aquaman charging Wonder Woman before she fully was able to get her lasso on him which she has lasso'd people like Supergirl.

I don't see the stone thing being a question of durability if he uses it I don't see how standard Aquaman would counter it at this point heck with it he should logically be able to beat Anyone the league though it's not something Teth uses frequently given the majority of his fights in the New52 against characters he hasn't but if we put it on the table I'd give it to him for that. In terms of physicals though at this point in time Aquaman has him beat.

Lobo being able to beat on Sinestro with the yellow Aura up and make him bleed and I think we'd both agree Sinestro's ring power should be way above Teth's. Lobo hurt his hand punching Superman who didn't even blink, Aquaman punched Superman who was gone for awhile and continued to use that same fist to punch Orm sending him back a few feet in one instance and breaking his helmet in another.

Aquaman Annual 2 he and Wonder Woman fight both being possessed. In terms of durability he fought Hercules who is the God Shazam gets his strength from atleast before Darkseid Wars, and the only reason I'd say Shazam did as bad as he did against Teth was his inexperience Futures End neither got any boost to my knowledge and Teth couldn't beat Shazam like he originally did.

Durability wise he was able to take hits from a J'onn Jonnz who amped himself by increasing his size which he has shown to do when pulling the Brainiac ship and mentioned amping via shape-shifting when fighting Despero in the watchtower.

Forever Evil stated Aquaman was one of the strongest beings on Earth alongside Wonder Woman and Superman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just to point out - Shazam specifically said Frankenstein DIDN't have him, and who's to say he didn't say it to get out of Deadman's powers? Deadman is incredibly powerful, after all...


And is THIS what you were referring to? Aquaman holds the trident in his hand - doesn't exactly look as if he is loving that lightning...




These are from his respect thread, btw. Not lowballing.

Tanking in the form that he's conscious after Orm's lightning. Adam's chest lightning has no feats against anyone who isn't human for the most part.

Shazam got out of the grapple by yelling Shazam it really doesn't prove he was physically capable of getting out since he used magic to blast them away. Franky was still restraining him to get Deadman to do whatever he was. As well as the fact Frank also tossed him aside in an earlier instance.

This link rule is a bit annoying by the way how do I get it removed..

yeah, i'm still convinced it's a split. but in my head i was using pre-nu adam and nu arthur for some reason. never really thought nu adam had enough feats, while arthur did. still don't really think he has enough feats for a fair comparison.

What link rule?

Originally posted by riv6672
What link rule?

I can't post links yet or something.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i'm still convinced it's a split. but in my head i was using pre-nu adam and nu arthur for some reason. never really thought nu adam had enough feats, while arthur did. still don't really think he has enough feats for a fair comparison.

Nu Aquaman has better physical feats the only way Adam takes this if we're using Nu versions is if we take the turning people into stone this as something he'd do in this fight.

I'd honestly argue P52 Aquaman could tp Pre52 Adam to the most notable tp resistance thing Teth has was the overloading Martian Manhunter's mind who tried to probe him I'd say it was plot but even if didn't probing, Mind reading, Influencing works by mentally targeting the Frontal Lobe. Aquaman's Seizure thing attacks the Basal Ganglia which isn't located in the frontal lobe.


Check out Arthur Curry aka Aquaman Respect Thread if you'd like on comicvine.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I can't post links yet or something.

It's a standard anti-spambots rule.

Once you get enough posts, you'll be able to post links.

Yeah, i post so much i dont think i ever even noticed that rule.

Getting 100 posts is a requirement, iirc.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's a standard anti-spambots rule.

Once you get enough posts, you'll be able to post links.

Appreciate it guess that means I'm going to be busy posting.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, i'm still convinced it's a split. but in my head i was using pre-nu adam and nu arthur for some reason. never really thought nu adam had enough feats, while arthur did. still don't really think he has enough feats for a fair comparison.

But then how does nu arthur get around the whole massive speed disadvantage he most definitely has against pre-nu adam? Since it's surely not like Namor can pick up the slack there, being also absurdly slower.

Originally posted by Surtur
But then how does nu arthur get around the whole massive speed disadvantage he most definitely has against pre-nu adam? Since it's surely not like Namor can pick up the slack there, being also absurdly slower.

He's been faster and stronger on land since Pre-Crisis the only this is that in the Silver Age his strength would diminish over time because of lack of water. After the Silver Age that was pretty much retconned and would only be brought up in titles outside the Aquaman title if at all to be a plot point in the Aquaman title he's addressed it as silly to think he'd be completely fine at the 59 minute mark but poof be dead at 60. There's a thread on Comicvine called "The Aquaman Misconception and Facts thread" feel free to check it out there's also a thread I've mentioned earlier called "Aquaman Composite Respect Thread" its full of links and in the speed sub area has some calculations with the explanation to it. DC characters or bricks usually have some speed advantage in the DC/Marvel crossover Namor couldnt really even touch Aquaman and Aquaman was laughing and joking around about it while Namor said stay still.

As for the speed argument Nu Adam doesn't have any feats suggesting he's faster then Nu Aquaman whose charged both Nu Superman and Nu Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Getting 100 posts is a requirement, iirc.
Ha, yeah i likely did that in an hour. I love that new new board smell.

On topic though, this has been really interesting debate. I started out favoring the duo, but wound up on Adam's side.

Lightning isn't even effective on namor.

Magical lightning that turns people into stone? I'll need to see proof of Namor's mystical defences, tbh.

Lightning itself isn't effective on him,as for mystical defences,he resisted dr strange's mystical attack and the mystical backlash KO'd strange. His royal blood is also a powerful mystical item ingredient and atlantean magic flows through him as king of atlantis(he isn't a magician himself). So I guess he is quite more magical resistant than an average less than peak human,no? When he faced khan,a magician who trapped him and doom in a bottle,he broke through and ripped khan's head off. He also has a magical trident with him too. Also I would like to see adam's mystical prowess being able to seriously affect someone remotely superhuman,

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
He's been faster and stronger on land since Pre-Crisis the only this is that in the Silver Age his strength would diminish over time because of lack of water. After the Silver Age that was pretty much retconned and would only be brought up in titles outside the Aquaman title if at all to be a plot point in the Aquaman title he's addressed it as silly to think he'd be completely fine at the 59 minute mark but poof be dead at 60. There's a thread on Comicvine called "The Aquaman Misconception and Facts thread" feel free to check it out there's also a thread I've mentioned earlier called "Aquaman Composite Respect Thread" its full of links and in the speed sub area has some calculations with the explanation to it. DC characters or bricks usually have some speed advantage in the DC/Marvel crossover Namor couldnt really even touch Aquaman and Aquaman was laughing and joking around about it while Namor said stay still.

Nobody said Aquaman isn't faster then normal, what he isn't is anywhere near the speed of Black Adam, nor is Namor. If you believe either of those characters could fight Jay Garrick at super speed please tell me I am wrong.



The speed argument was specifically about preNu Adam.

Originally posted by Genii96
Lightning itself isn't effective on him,as for mystical defences,he resisted dr strange's mystical attack and the mystical backlash KO'd strange. His royal blood is also a powerful mystical item ingredient and atlantean magic flows through him as king of atlantis(he isn't a magician himself). So I guess he is quite more magical resistant than an average less than peak human,no? When he faced khan,a magician who trapped him and doom in a bottle,he broke through and ripped khan's head off. He also has a magical trident with him too. Also I would like to see adam's mystical prowess being able to seriously affect someone remotely superhuman,

Normal lightning doesn't turn you to stone so talking about feats that aren't with mystical "turn you to stone" lightning are irrelevant. As for the rest nothing you said suggests Namor could resist magical transmutation. I don't even understand the relevance of you mentioning the magic trident unless it has protected him from magical spells in the past. Has it?

Also frankly the "Dr. Strange mystically attacked him and it KOed Dr. Strange" seems..well, strange. What does this mean? Was it a magical energy blast that bounced off Namor? Was this Classic Strange? Jobber Strange? Was this some kind of transmutation spell that failed?

Originally posted by Surtur
Nobody said Aquaman isn't faster then normal, what he isn't is anywhere near the speed of Black Adam, nor is Namor. If you believe either of those characters could fight Jay Garrick at super speed please tell me I am wrong.



The speed argument was specifically about preNu Adam.

Check out "Arthur Curry aka Aquaman Respect Thread" on Comicvine

I'd post links but I can't at the moment anyways I was thinking this was current versions of each character. Namor before SS ofcourse

I feel like Aquaman's trident doesn't just absorb energy but disrupts magic I'll look for something to back it up since right now it's just a thought.

Are you saying this respect thread contains feats showing Aquaman is a high end speedster? Or is that just for the bit about absorbing energy?

Originally posted by Surtur
Are you saying this respect thread contains feats showing Aquaman is a high end speedster? Or is that just for the bit about absorbing energy?

It contains reaction, and traveling speed feats.

It has the feats of him absorbing energy with his trident and redirecting it as well.

There's actually alot of stuff and more stuff to be added.

Do you think Aquaman could replicate the Jay Garrick feat?

Aquaman on his seahorse is faster than any Speedforce user, canon

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Aquaman on his seahorse is faster than any Speedforce user, canon

There is a huge asterisk to this statement though, context matters. The seahorse is a speedforce user. This needs to be made clear.

Originally posted by Surtur
There is a huge asterisk to this statement though, context matters. The seahorse is a speedforce user. This needs to be made clear.

No, the seahorse is beyond speedforce...

It's the poweroftheocean, bro... Pr tries to tap into it every once in a while. Ends in lifesavers getting his ass out of water.

I just wonder what would happened if it had a baby with the kryptonian horse named Comet that wanted to bang Supergirl.

Originally posted by Surtur
Do you think Aquaman could replicate the Jay Garrick feat?

Tagging a running Jay, yes I do. Racing one not really unless it's at sea.

It's silly logic to think about despite being a comic because of trying to think of how it would be possible in are world, but Silver Age Aquaman has been stated as faster then Superman at sea whose had problems Tagging himat Sea.Comicfan11 on comicvine has scans to show it in his images. On land he's shown dodging Weather Wizards lightning from a cloud just above his head. Other Silver Age stuff with him doing moves he saw Flash doing before like creating wind funnels under water.

Scans where Amazo with the League power had Aquaman coming at him and saying he couldn't react in time. JL Detroit Era which carried through throughout the Pre-Flashpoint era.

Silver Age silliness aside the Morrison JLA run had Aquaman being able to perceive a running Wally clone. The Waid run had him keep up with Wally at sea trying to stop a Durlan Civil War. The Aquaman Time and Tide serious had him suprise a running Barry in chase of the Trickster. Aquaman Vol 6 number 1 referenced Time and Tide and showed him Reflexively. In JLA Classified he suprised a running Wally with Hydrokinesis right in from of him. In the PAD started volume run he dodged a blow from a monster Timmorn who was able to tag a running Jay.

The only instance I can think of anyone really outspeeding Aquaman is Wally under diress trying to save multiple League members and if we count Johnny Quicks speed Punches as something he wasn't able to react to which didn't really do anything to him but make him go "Ow".

To your question though I think he can react to alot of Speedsters and I feel all the stuff I mentioned is referenced like when you see Aquaman react to a speeding Flash in Injustice or Ocean Master eventually perceiving Flash in The Animated Throne of Atlantis movie I'd say it's derived from the comics and their reflexes being better in air.

Jay can run at nearly the speed of light, so do you think Aquaman can react at nearly the speed of light? He'd need to be able to react at those speeds to tag Jay as he is running.

You mentioned racing at sea, can Aquaman swim at the speed of light? Or near it?

Originally posted by Surtur
Jay can run at nearly the speed of light, so do you think Aquaman can react at nearly the speed of light? He'd need to be able to react at those speeds to tag Jay as he is running.

You mentioned racing at sea, can Aquaman swim at the speed of light? Or near it?

There's nothing to suggest he's lightspeed I believe in his own feats, the feats I'm talking about are based in comparison to other characters.

Like charging Amazo before he can react. I'd post scans but yuknow. It's logic based on we see what one character can do so we see no when another character counters that or competes against that where it should logically place them. Similar to we know how hot heat vision is so when we see someone survive it we know how much heat they took or the destructive capabilities of the Omega Beams in terms of Durability.

I don't believe Jay is anywhere near Light speed so your going to have to show me a Jay without speed stealing coming anywhere near that. Personal curiosity and all.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
There's nothing to suggest he's lightspeed I believe in his own feats, the feats I'm talking about are based in comparison to other characters.

Like charging Amazo before he can react. I'd post scans but yuknow. It's logic based on we see what one character can do so we see no when another character counters that or competes against that where it should logically place them. Similar to we know how hot heat vision is so when we see someone survive it we know how much heat they took or the destructive capabilities of the Omega Beams in terms of Durability.

I don't believe Jay is anywhere near Light speed so your going to have to show me a Jay without speed stealing coming anywhere near that. Personal curiosity and all.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/35/Flash_Jay_Garrick_0006.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120227012238

IIRC he lost it during Infinite Crisis, then regained it in Flash Rebirth although running at light speed takes a heavy toll on him now.

Not sure about Earth 2 Jay though

If you turn on a flashlight in a dark world and run faster than light speed , do you stay in the dark/outrun the light?

How does it feel to outrun light?

Originally posted by RadZoa
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/3/35/Flash_Jay_Garrick_0006.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120227012238

IIRC he lost it during Infinite Crisis, then regained it in Flash Rebirth although running at light speed takes a heavy toll on him now.

Not sure about Earth 2 Jay though

I can't read that the image is blurry are there any scans of him actually running that fast.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
If you turn on a flashlight in a dark world and run faster than light speed , do you stay in the dark/outrun the light?

How does it feel to outrun light?

It's usually attributed to writers making the statement a character is running faster then light or capable of doing sometimes it's based on calculations of how fast a character is going compared to light.

Alot of writers tend not to follow their own calculations or do much research.

Some characters are suggested to be lightspeed or near it based on what they've done against characters. Like I'm guessing the Black Adam/Jay Garrick instance is being used for that reason. Reason I brought up instances of Aquaman compared to speedsters which I'm not sure is being taken seriously which seems pretty double standarded.

Realistically anyone traveling faster then light should be in the dark. Running faster then light here would be outrunning the time it takes for light to travel from the sun to the earth.

Originally posted by TethAdamTheRock
If you turn on a flashlight in a dark world and run faster than light speed , do you stay in the dark/outrun the light?

How does it feel to outrun light?

It feels like Colossus Big c

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I can't read that the image is blurry are there any scans of him actually running that fast.


http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/111254/3052646-9255926333-14045.jpg

It's an older scan, I believe in one JSA comic Jay told Mr Terrific that only Wally can run that fast because running faster than light would risk losing himself in the speed force

Post Flash Rebirth (I think) Jay could run around light speed or just a bit under but he would risk having a heart attack if he kept it up for long. He's probably around the same level as Northstar ei 99% but can't sustain it, although more experienced and has speed force abilities like speed stealing and ridiculous durability to where he can shrug off being punched across the US by Zoom.

Here's a bio scan stating that Jay was able to run at light speed but has slowed down a bit due to age


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/jaybio.jpg

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
My next point would be what feats do these gods have that Black Adam draws his power from.
Well....it turns a decrepit 1000 year old man into a guy capable of throwing down with Ultraman. This is of course, physically - but to then say the physical powers are herald level, and his magical powers are street level, is a bit weird.


He physically overpowered him, showing he has great strength, and the speedster feat was to show he had good reflexes.


But then, PIS comes into play - especially if you start using ABC logic.

Aquaman charged WW = Aquaman is faster than WW.
GL has tagged WW = GL is faster than WW
Batman has stolen GL's ring = Batman is faster than GL who is faster than WW who is faster than Supergirl.

See how it all breaks down? You've been using Frankenstein, and WW, and Supergirl, all as proxies for Aquaman's speed - when we all have seen them perform at less than 100%.


He has used it in 25% of his appearances. In ANY other character, that would be amazing.


And same again here - using Sinestro and Lobo as proxies for BA.


And did he overpower Hercules?


And did J'onn display any of this when fighting Aquaman?


So you think Aquaman could pull Brainiac's ship as well? Or push the moon like Ultraman? Etc etc.

Originally posted by RadZoa
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11/111254/3052646-9255926333-14045.jpg

It's an older scan, I believe in one JSA comic Jay told Mr Terrific that only Wally can run that fast because running faster than light would risk losing himself in the speed force

Post Flash Rebirth (I think) Jay could run around light speed or just a bit under but he would risk having a heart attack if he kept it up for long. He's probably around the same level as Northstar ei 99% but can't sustain it, although more experienced and has speed force abilities like speed stealing and ridiculous durability to where he can shrug off being punched across the US by Zoom.

Here's a bio scan stating that Jay was able to run at light speed but has slowed down a bit due to age


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/jaybio.jpg

Appreciate it man this is all new to me, suggest though Jay was capable of doing so at a younger age.

Beatboks is the guy to go to for Jay feats, as well

Check the Battlezone out, it has some nice feats for Jay.

Aye, although he's still ridiculously fast in his older age he's def slowed down as he got older

Here's some more scans on Jay,

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4061014-5689354338-38277.png

Hours and minutes feel like years to him

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111130781/3753171-0219993905-28369.jpg

He's able to converse with Flash and Kid Flash in nanoseconds.

or feel free to scroll through my bz with scoob. gathered tons of jay stuff..... he's got some great feats.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Well....it turns a decrepit 1000 year old man into a guy capable of throwing down with Ultraman. This is of course, physically - but to then say the physical powers are herald level, and his magical powers are street level, is a bit weird.


He physically overpowered him, showing he has great strength, and the speedster feat was to show he had good reflexes.


But then, PIS comes into play - especially if you start using ABC logic.

Aquaman charged WW = Aquaman is faster than WW.
GL has tagged WW = GL is faster than WW
Batman has stolen GL's ring = Batman is faster than GL who is faster than WW who is faster than Supergirl.

See how it all breaks down? You've been using Frankenstein, and WW, and Supergirl, all as proxies for Aquaman's speed - when we all have seen them perform at less than 100%.


He has used it in 25% of his appearances. In ANY other character, that would be amazing.


And same again here - using Sinestro and Lobo as proxies for BA.


And did he overpower Hercules?


And did J'onn display any of this when fighting Aquaman?


So you think Aquaman could pull Brainiac's ship as well? Or push the moon like Ultraman? Etc etc.

The way powers work is that they have to have feats doing something. You can't suggest because Flash can't beat up class 100 characters with an IMP or phasing that other forms of his attack are just as powerful it's pretty baseless. Heat Vision isn't as powerful as Frost Breath or visa versa without the feats to suggest so. It's baseless to suggest his lightning can harm a character because it hurt human fodder and the character using the attack is a class 100. You also can't compare 2 different characters using lightning or electrical attacks.. by that logic Electro is just as powerful as Thor.. voltage and destructive capabilities are different. Same with 2 different characters using heat vision or any form of attack being done by two different characters.


I brought up a bunch of scans in reference to Aquaman's speed and reflex.

Your comparing skills are a bit ridiculous... Batman took a ring off Hal when they were talking and walking around a sewer show me a scan of Batman taking off GL's ring when Green Lantern is in a offensive standpoint against Batman.

Whereas my Wonder Woman instance is Wonder Woman actually acting upon Arthur first and Arthur reacting

My Superman instance is after the fact The Trinity attacked Aquaman specifically Batman and Aquaman was at a distance from them charging to hit Superman.

Whereas Batman and Hal were right next to each other face to face talking.

Did I suggest he was faster then Wonder Woman or Superman? If so show me where what I'm stating was he showed he was fast enough to hit Superman before a reaction and fast enough to react to Wonder Woman trying to lasso him.

Also Wonder Woman stomped Hal the only time he got any hits in was when Superman distracted Diana other then that he's was sent flying twice, blood drawn from him and didn't get any hits in without aid.

Aquaman fought Wonder Woman in Aquaman Annual 2 after the GOW upgrade and did better then Hal.

So your examples don't really break down well.


J'onn physically shapeshifted his size when he was fighting Aquaman and has been shown and said to be stronger when doing so in previous comics.

Aquaman was showing restraint against Hercules and didn't have his trident when he got rejuvenated with water to get back into the fight he started stomping Hercules sending him across an island and then meeting up with him in the next panel.

Originally posted by RadZoa
Aye, although he's still ridiculously fast in his older age he's def slowed down as he got older

Here's some more scans on Jay,

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111130781/4061014-5689354338-38277.png

Hours and minutes feel like years to him

http://static9.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111130781/3753171-0219993905-28369.jpg

He's able to converse with Flash and Kid Flash in nanoseconds.

Wouldn't this be considered ABC logic if we use this based on the previous user?

Regardless Aquaman's reacted to a running Barry and kept up with a running Wally as well as percieved thr movements of a Wally clone suggesting those are invalid and Adam's/Teth feat is would kinda be a bit biast, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Surtur
Normal lightning doesn't turn you to stone so talking about feats that aren't with mystical "turn you to stone" lightning are irrelevant. As for the rest nothing you said suggests Namor could resist magical transmutation. I don't even understand the relevance of you mentioning the magic trident unless it has protected him from magical spells in the past. Has it?

Also frankly the "Dr. Strange mystically attacked him and it KOed Dr. Strange" seems..well, strange. What does this mean? Was it a magical energy blast that bounced off Namor? Was this Classic Strange? Jobber Strange? Was this some kind of transmutation spell that failed?
Like I said,I meant normal lightning attacks
- Namor's blood is a powerful magical ingredient, atlantean magic flows through him, he is not on the same level as some random fodder human whom black adam's magic worked against. Does it matter which strange? Strange utterly shits on BA on term of magical strength
Namor resisted his magical attacks so hard that the mystical back lash KO'd him,

I am not the one to prove anything, you are the one to show if BA's magic can affect one who is several hundred times more powerful than an average human in every way. Good luck with that

A magical trident can be used to block the lightening attack coming out from BA's chest, and one hit from that trident will end adam will end adam

You are heavily overhyping a power used a on an average human. Where was this power when he faced ultraman? or everyone else? Surely with so few appearances, the 'writer forgot his power' excuse won't work

Originally posted by Genii96
Like I said,I meant normal lightning attacks
- Namor's blood is a powerful magical ingredient, atlantean magic flows through him, he is not on the same level as some random fodder human whom black adam's magic worked against. Does it matter which strange? Strange utterly shits on BA on term of magical strength
Namor resisted his magical attacks so hard that the mystical back lash KO'd him,

I am not the one to prove anything, you are the one to show if BA's magic can affect one who is several hundred times more powerful than an average human in every way. Good luck with that

A magical trident can be used to block the lightening attack coming out from BA's chest, and one hit from that trident will end adam will end adam

You are heavily overhyping a power used a on an average human. Where was this power when he faced ultraman? or everyone else? Surely with so few appearances, the 'writer forgot his power' excuse won't work


The thing that makes the power questionable in the fight is its not really used other then that one instance so I'm questioning the context behind its usage.

Fighting Ultraman really has no merit since he lost pretty bad unless getting beat up by characters are now being used as feats or they're highly considered on this site.

A character pushing a star or moon is irrelevant if they're shown to be able to fight characters capable of doing so. Superman has pushed heavy objects in the New52 yet Wonder Woman hasn't really moved worlds yet in every instance they fought in the New52 it was on par. Shazam doesn't have these world moving feats and didn't get KO'd or dead after being hit by Superman. After his you haven't seen me yet statement.

Aquaman's trident would definitely harm Teth. http://m.imgur.com/a/XWUnj

Namor resisting The Eye of Aggamatto sounds impressive.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
The way powers work is that they have to have feats doing something. You can't suggest because Flash can't beat up class 100 characters with an IMP or phasing that other forms of his attack are just as powerful it's pretty baseless. Heat Vision isn't as powerful as Frost Breath or visa versa without the feats to suggest so. It's baseless to suggest his lightning can harm a character because it hurt human fodder and the character using the attack is a class 100. You also can't compare 2 different characters using lightning or electrical attacks.. by that logic Electro is just as powerful as Thor.. voltage and destructive capabilities are different. Same with 2 different characters using heat vision or any form of attack being done by two different characters.

This would be true...if the very same scan didn't explicitly said that BA was given power by the gods to avenge his family...power both physical and magical.

To then turn around and say, well, the gods that gave him great speed, strength, stamina etc...skimped on his magical ability. THAT is what I a m having issues with.


So Batman is able to outreact a GL and it's automatic capabilities? OK.


https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/aquaman-vs-wonder-woman-1-throne-of-atlantis.jpg

She succeeded in getting the lasso around him. And rather than command him to yield, she just kept on talking. Hardly the speed feat you're making it out to be - when she actually succeeds in lassoing him.




Surely if he is, as you're saying, fast enough to hit Supes BEFORE a reaction...you're saying he's faster?


He still managed to bubble her up, and then grab her. My point is, she has showings where she isn't too fast to be untouchable.


It's to show not every showing a character has is at 100% full speed/strength.


But....he didn't restrain him with his superior strength, right?

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
The thing that makes the power questionable in the fight is its not really used other then that one instance so I'm questioning the context behind its usage.

Fighting Ultraman really has no merit since he lost pretty bad unless getting beat up by characters are now being used as feats or they're highly considered on this site.

A character pushing a star or moon is irrelevant if they're shown to be able to fight characters capable of doing so. Superman has pushed heavy objects in the New52 yet Wonder Woman hasn't really moved worlds yet in every instance they fought in the New52 it was on par. Shazam doesn't have these world moving feats and didn't get KO'd or dead after being hit by Superman. After his you haven't seen me yet statement.

Aquaman's trident would definitely harm Teth. http://m.imgur.com/a/XWUnj

Namor resisting The Eye of Aggamatto sounds impressive.
I didn't bring up ultraman as a demerit, I was pointing out that he waas overhyping that magical attack so much that obviously it would have been helpful against ultraman since he was physically weaker.

You are saying exactly my point,it has been used once,on an average human,it should not be hyped this much

I don't think strange used agamotto's eye when namor resisted him