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Neutral ground.

20 meters distance.

All out.

Can they bring down the giant?

Valkorion absolutely slaughters, lel.

no one else?

Valkorion overpowers them pretty much instantly. Exar Kun is at best as powerful+skilled overall as Darth Marr, Malgus is around that level too and Dooku is way beneath them.

Yeah, they don't stand a chance. Replace Kun with Arcann, Dooku with Scourge, and they may have a shot though.

Originally posted by JKBart
Valkorion overpowers them pretty much instantly. Exar Kun is at best as powerful+skilled overall as Darth Marr, Malgus is around that level too and Dooku is way beneath them.

Yeah, they don't stand a chance. Replace Kun with Arcann, Dooku with Scourge, and they may have a shot though.

Team wins, he'd get overwhelmed by their collective speed and cut down.

Valkorion

Originally posted by AncientPower
Team wins, he'd get overwhelmed by their collective speed and cut down.
Nonsense.

Count Dooku and Darth Malgus are nearly non-factors. Exar Kun cannot carry his Team much.

Quality thread there Sin I expected more from you... used to look up to your wisdom at times, now back to Neph

The fact that you look up to anybody on KMC makes a little part of me die on the inside.

Originally posted by Syndicate
The fact that you look up to anybody on KMC makes a little part of me die on the inside.
Sinious is chill tbh

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion


Nonsense.

Count Dooku and Darth Malgus are nearly non-factors. Exar Kun cannot carry his Team much.

Yeh but no, he has no speed feats even approaching his enemies' and he isn't one-shotting anybody here. Darth Marr was distracted by Knights of Zakuul when Valkorion killed him. He managed to take out Arcann... sure, and got stabbed in the back for tunnel visioning. A weaker Voice got cut down easily in close-quarters by the Hero of Tython.

Malgus, Dooku and Exar Kun combined is enough, Kun tanks his lightning storm long enough for Malgus and Dooku to get in close where Valkorion has nothing on his enemies.

No scenario exists where he wins, what.. he's going to blast them all at once? Well each of them are just too powerful for that to work, Dooku is the only Arcann is arguably superior to and he lasted an impressive amount of time solo.

Originally posted by AncientPower
he isn't one-shotting anybody here. I hope you mean while in this fight against 3 people. Cause if you think Valkorion cannot one-shot Dooku or Malgus, I'm gonna argue against you on that tbh.
Originally posted by Tondemonai
Quality thread there Sin I expected more from you... used to look up to your wisdom at times, now back to Neph I'm honestly not sure what is wrong with the thread. Originally posted by Emperordmb
Sinious is chill tbh these fools can't comprehend my vision

Individually, Valkorion is obviously a tier above, but this isn't him against any one Sith, this is a team of three bonified powerhouses, the likes of which he's never faced. The only comparable fight is against Revan and the circumstances there are self-explanatory.

Team is just too strong.

Originally posted by Sinious
20 meters distance.

Valkorion.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion. I had to

Originally posted by AncientPower
Individually, Valkorion is obviously a tier above, but this isn't him against any one Sith, this is a team of three bonified powerhouses, the likes of which he's never faced. The only comparable fight is against Revan and the circumstances there are self-explanatory.

Team is just too strong. You underwank the gap between them. Its more than a tier even with Kun who is MVP of his team. I'm not siding Valkorion until someone makes a good argument though.

lol @ Vitiate's performance against Revan having any significance here. Vitiate has been >>>>>> any other force user he encountered as far as we know until that point in the novel. And one of the members of team Revan had lost to him quite easily in a former confrontation with Alek, the other was a mere sith lord of his own empire, and there was a random jedi helping them. He clearly felt like f'ing around which won't be the case here.

His mentality towards strike teams have changed drastically after that point as it can be seen by his performance against Braga strike team. He also became a lot more cautious in general. Not to mention Vitiate fed on Revan + his servants for the next 300 years after that and then drained Ziost. Revan being able to touch him there doesn't mean anything here as Valkorion is now more cautious, wiser, significantly more powerful, and seems to have found a way to defend against saber attacks in case someone closes the gap (No, Valkorion is not immune to sabers, but its also pretty clear that its not insta-win for his opponents when they close the gap).

Yes and against Arcann and the Hero he tunnel visioned his son and then got backstabbed, here he'll have to focus Kun or get hit hard in return. If he does focus Kun then he leaves Malgus and Dooku time to pincer him, if he continues focusing Kun he gets flanked and dies, if he moves to one shot Dooku then Malgus backstabs and Kun can counter.

He isn't winning, this team is miles above Braga's and he cannot focus one without leaving himself open; this is only made worse by the fact all three of them have varyingly better speed and reaction feats than Valkorion himself.

He can kill one of them, in Dooku, before dying and that is as good as the scenario gets for him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes and against Arcann and the Hero he tunnel visioned his son and then got backstabbed, You mean after he KO'd him and engaged in a conversation with HoT? That's pretty much the same with Sidious getting killed by Vader and hardly applies to combat situation. Like I said, I am not arguing that Valkorion wins, but remember the distance is 20 meters and that gives him some advantage.

Yeah, 20 meters is enough ground that he can potentially slaughter Malgus and Dooku.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yeh but no, he has no speed feats even approaching his enemies' and he isn't one-shotting anybody here.
What is your criteria for judging speed of an individual? Running fast?

Name one Jedi and/or Sith whom Valkorion have not successfully responded to during a confrontation.

In-fact, Valkorion's reaction-time approaches nanosecond levels. Watch this footage:

=2fT3QcLxv5I

4:32 - 5:20

"Accept my power or watch her die. Choose quickly, time has not stopped." (Valkorion)

Using the Outlander as a vessel, Valkorion unleashed a blast of power so fast that nobody could react to his move.

Your argument is baseless and moot.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Marr was distracted by Knights of Zakuul when Valkorion killed him.
Darth Marr was facing Valkorion when the latter made his move.

http://i65.tinypic.com/34o3lfc.png

Guess what? Pwned.

Originally posted by AncientPower
He managed to take out Arcann... sure, and got stabbed in the back for tunnel visioning.
So? shit happens; anybody can be taken by surprise depending upon the circumstances.

ANALOGY: During a confrontation between Luke Skywalker and Abeloth, the Sith diverted the attention of the Jedi Master towards them and Abeloth took advantage of this momentary distraction from behind, putting the Jedi Master in a choke-hold.

Based on the aforementioned example, should we assume that Luke Skywalker suffers from tunnel vision and/or is not a good combatant?

It's not easy to back-stab Valkorion in a straightforward confrontation. Years ago, he prevented (4) powerful Jedi from getting close to him and defeated all of them.

Originally posted by AncientPower
A weaker Voice got cut down easily in close-quarters by the Hero of Tython.
How is this confrontation relevant to this discussion?

However, I would like to point out that even the (weakened) Voice was fast enough to not get blitzed by Hero of Tython at point blank range and this confrontation was far from being short.

http://i64.tinypic.com/24dh9a0.png

Do keep in mind that Hero of Tython have history of blitzing opponents.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Malgus, Dooku and Exar Kun combined is enough, Kun tanks his lightning storm long enough for Malgus and Dooku to get in close where Valkorion has nothing on his enemies.
Exar Kun cannot withstand Valkorion's powers for long. Situation is hopeless for the others as well.

Originally posted by AncientPower
No scenario exists where he wins, what.. he's going to blast them all at once? Well each of them are just too powerful for that to work, Dooku is the only Arcann is arguably superior to and he lasted an impressive amount of time solo.
Valkorion can one-shot even the likes of Revan and you think that Exar Kun, Count Dooku and Darth Malgus can do better?

Arcann appears to be stronger than both Darth Malgus and Count Dooku on individual basis and a peer of Revan in strength. This is a good read: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/arcann-respect-thread/103998/

Originally posted by AncientPower
Individually, Valkorion is obviously a tier above, but this isn't him against any one Sith, this is a team of three bonified powerhouses, the likes of which he's never faced. The only comparable fight is against Revan and the circumstances there are self-explanatory.
A TIER above?

Valkorion is miles ahead of any individual in the Strike Team, your precious Exar Kun included.

Valkorion made millions of Sith shit their pants and busted a planet, and you think that the likes of Exar Kun, Darth Malgus and Count Dooku would intimidate him?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Team is just too strong.
No, it is not.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes and against Arcann and the Hero he tunnel visioned his son and then got backstabbed, here he'll have to focus Kun or get hit hard in return. If he does focus Kun then he leaves Malgus and Dooku time to pincer him, if he continues focusing Kun he gets flanked and dies, if he moves to one shot Dooku then Malgus backstabs and Kun can counter.

He isn't winning, this team is miles above Braga's and he cannot focus one without leaving himself open; this is only made worse by the fact all three of them have varyingly better speed and reaction feats than Valkorion himself.

He can kill one of them, in Dooku, before dying and that is as good as the scenario gets for him.
So much nonsense in a single post.

Valkorion's reaction-time approaches nanosecond levels. He can bombard the entire Strike Team with impunity. Conventional defenses would be utterly useless.

This Strike Team isn't miles ahead of the Strike Team led by Tol Braga. This Strike Team can be asserted to be relatively superior though.

More importantly, Valkorion 'easily' defeated the Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga.

Legend, we don't know if he can reach the level of speed he reached as a spirit with a unique force power.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes and against Arcann and the Hero he tunnel visioned his son and then got backstabbed, here he'll have to focus Kun or get hit hard in return. If he does focus Kun then he leaves Malgus and Dooku time to pincer him, if he continues focusing Kun he gets flanked and dies, if he moves to one shot Dooku then Malgus backstabs and Kun can counter.

He isn't winning, this team is miles above Braga's and he cannot focus one without leaving himself open; this is only made worse by the fact all three of them have varyingly better speed and reaction feats than Valkorion himself.

He can kill one of them, in Dooku, before dying and that is as good as the scenario gets for him.
So much nonsense in a single post.

Valkorion's reaction-time approaches nanosecond levels. He can bombard the entire Strike Team with impunity. Conventional defenses would be utterly useless.

This Strike Team is definitely superior then the Strike Team led by Tol Braga but not literally miles ahead of it.

More importantly, Valkorion 'easily' defeated the Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga.

Originally posted by Sinious
Legend, we don't know if he can reach the level of speed he reached as a spirit with a unique force power.
Valkorion is an entity; he is beyond the limitations of morality.

More importantly, Valkorion responded that fast through a physical vessel (i.e. the Outlander), saving Lana Beniko from death in a split-second moment. It's a legit speed feat.

Originally posted by Sinious
I'm honestly not sure what is wrong with the thread.

It's not that I have a problem, per say, just I'm used to you making match ups that are much more balanced. Team gets wrecked. Valkorion's superiority is far too vast for them to take more than one or two rounds.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion is an entity; he is beyond the limitations of morality.

More importantly, Valkorion responded that fast through a physical vessel (i.e. the Outlander), saving Lana Beniko from death in a split-second moment. It's a legit speed feat. Aside from when he takes physical form.

And he clearly exists outside of the Outlander, he only channels his offensive force powers through them and with their permission.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion is an entity; he is beyond the limitations of morality.

More importantly, Valkorion responded that fast through a physical vessel (i.e. the Outlander), saving Lana Beniko from death in a split-second moment. It's a legit speed feat.
Indeed, he is flow walking and slowing time, it is not the same as moving extremely fast. If Valkorion perceived things while in his body that much faster than Arcann, how did he not see Arcann coming? Getting sucker punched by someone is not the same as getting sucker punched by someone x100 times slower than you.

Kek, Valkorion already said he let himself be killed.

I thought that was common knowledge. Valkorion TP's Dooku to fight Malgus and then takes down Exar.

I remember that vaguely tbh and can't recall where exactly it is stated. mind sharing?

It doesn't even matter. Valkorion clearly isn't x500 times faster than Arcann. I would be wanking the shit out of him if he were, trust me.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kek, Valkorion already said he let himself be killed.

Valkorion also said that he'd "decided" not to kill the PC right after getting his ass handed to him on Ziost.

? Yeah he decided he didn't want to kill the PC after the events of Ziost. We see this clearly carried out when he doesn't kill and indeed helps the outlander throughout KOTFE.

He tries and fails to kill the PC and then petulantly states that well, I didn't even wanna kill you anyway! Baka!

Originally posted by Tondemonai
It's not that I have a problem, per say, just I'm used to you making match ups that are much more balanced. Team gets wrecked. Valkorion's superiority is far too vast for them to take more than one or two rounds. I rank Kun and Malgus higher than most people, so to me it didn't look like a bad fight.

I completely forgot about TP though. That might imbalance the fight terribly before it starts.

What's TP

Originally posted by Sinious
I remember that vaguely tbh and can't recall where exactly it is stated. mind sharing? Tbh.

Not seeing logic there seeing as he is pissed and trying to get his throne back.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
What's TP

Telepathy.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
What's TP telepathy. Valkorion before his prime demonstrated some of the best TP feats. It can easily turn the tide against inferior force users.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
What's TP Toilet paper

Originally posted by Nephthys
He tries and fails to kill the PC and then petulantly states that well, I didn't even wanna kill you anyway! Baka!
No, he says he's decided they're worth keeping around. He never said he didn't try to kill them. And we clearly see he can anyway so this point is moot.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, he says he's decided they're worth keeping around. He never said he didn't try to kill them. And we clearly see he can anyway so this point is moot.

He says that only after failing to kill them, forgive me if I don't regard his "mercy" too highly.

He kicks your ass in Chapter XII when he's confirmed weaker than before. Let it go.

Chapter what? I'm talking about Vitiate on Ziost here. He tries to kill you while possessing those people and ****ing fails. I'm obviously not saying the PC is > Vitiate I'm saying that at that point Vitiate couldn't kill you so to save face he acted like he didn't even want to like a tiny little child.

He obviously could have killed you on Ziost by eating you. You don't have a leg to stand on here. The fact that he couldn't defeat you with one body he's controlling out of thousands isn't really that unexpected.

He only had one body because the PC owns him and cuts him off from the rest. The whole thing is that he threw everything at you and got chumped. And there's no "obviously". The fact that he decides to "spare" you after failing to kill you like a thousand times in a row is so transparently pathetic its absolutely hilarious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He only had one body because the PC owns him and cuts him off from the rest. The whole thing is that he threw everything at you and got chumped. And there's no "obviously". The fact that he decides to "spare" you after failing to kill you like a thousand times in a row is so transparently pathetic its absolutely hilarious.
No, that wasn't the whole thing, kek. The player doesn't cut him off from anything except for the five or six people they're able to shock randomly. What the hell are you talking about?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He kicks your ass in Chapter XII when he's confirmed weaker than before. Let it go.

He does? Spoilers pls.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No, that wasn't the whole thing, kek. The player doesn't cut him off from anything except for the five or six people they're able to shock randomly. What the hell are you talking about?

Maybe you should play Ziost again, bro. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He does? Spoilers pls.

Yeah never mind, the outlander gets lmfao lol raped by Valkorion.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah never mind, the outlander gets lmfao lol raped by Valkorion. Spoilers pls

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8QUKZzRa4

that was HOT

Who for all intents and purposes is the Outlander.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzyjphCa74UyQ6zQofoBbcKKbJDyi-M_U

It's not even close.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe you should play Ziost again, bro. Just sayin'.
Or, maybe you should learn what you're talking about.

no I mean that was pretty hot

http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/922207309.gif

LoveingTT5 days ago
"Vaylin won't be my companion. She will fall hard before me and become my Apprentice, subject, sycophant, vassal, tool, resource, weapon, ect. Just like the once noble Jaesa fell to her knees in reverence to her lord, so too shall the proud princess beg for my praise from her knees, while her daddy has a front row seat to it all. When I'm taking your little girl from behind like a mad beast and she's calling me papa, Valkorion, remember it was I that took your life, your empire, your woman and your child from you. My seed shall flood her womb and cleanse your mud ridden blood with my own."

Interesting that the Outlander thought Satele had become the apprentice of Marr.

No, that's just one option for the Idiotlanders out there that can't even sense Marr.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He tries and fails to kill the PC and then petulantly states that well, I didn't even wanna kill you anyway! Baka!
I believe that Valkorion was not in the position to bring his full power to bear against the protagonist in this particular confrontation. As powerful as the host was, Valkorion was multi-tasking on an insane level.

Moreover, Valkorion warned the protagonist that he is going to devastate the world, giving the protagonist a chance to escape.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Aside from when he takes physical form.

And he clearly exists outside of the Outlander, he only channels his offensive force powers through them and with their permission.
My friend, none of this contradicts my point.

Of-course, Valkorion exists outside the Outlander; he is using the Outlander as a vessel for some agenda that we are not yet aware of.

However, ponder over this:

1. Lana Beniko is disarmed and on the verge of getting struck by a Zakuul Knight; the Knight's weapon is already in motion.
2. Valkorion immediately manifests and informs the Outlander that he can save Lana from death, should he accept his offer.
3. The Outlander accepts.
4. The Outlander unleashes a massive blast of power, leveling the field.
5. The attack materializes so fast - before the attacking Zakuul Knight could land a blow on Lana - and the latter is saved.

In the aforementioned example, Valkorion unleashed a Force power through a physical vessel just like he would with a Voice.

The need for permission and/or additional dialogue before the attack - are irrelevant details for storytelling purpose. The mechanism is same with a Voice.

Originally posted by Sinious
Indeed, he is flow walking and slowing time, it is not the same as moving extremely fast. If Valkorion perceived things while in his body that much faster than Arcann, how did he not see Arcann coming? Getting sucker punched by someone is not the same as getting sucker punched by someone x100 times slower than you.
Aryn Leener once approached nanosecond(s) level reaction-time so why this is impossible for Valkorion?

Valkorion did not physically move that fast but unleashed a Force power that fast (reaction-time). This is my point.

Arcann is supposed to be immensely fast by the way.

Lol Aryn Leneer used a form of moving meditation to amplify her speed, it is by no means her actual reaction speed.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend, none of this contradicts my point.

Of-course, Valkorion exists outside the Outlander; he is using the Outlander as a vessel for some agenda that we are not yet aware of.

However, ponder over this:

1. Lana Beniko is disarmed and on the verge of getting struck by a Zakuul Knight; the Knight's weapon is already in motion.
2. Valkorion immediately manifests and informs the Outlander that he can save Lana from death, should he accept his offer.
3. The Outlander accepts.
4. The Outlander unleashes a massive blast of power, leveling the field.
5. The attack materializes so fast - before the attacking Zakuul Knight could land a blow on Lana - and the latter is saved.

In the aforementioned example, Valkorion unleashed a Force power through a physical vessel just like he would with a Voice.

The need for permission and/or additional dialogue before the attack - are irrelevant details for storytelling purpose. The mechanism is same with a Voice. Learn to distinguish between attack speed and reaction speed. The former is evidently impressive, but the latter was dependent on a flow-walking ability unique to his spiritual form.

Valkorion just unleashes everything he has with the Force. Dooku dies first, then Malgus in short order, then Kun gets overwhelmed once he's on his own.

Tbh, though personally I think Malgus and Dooku die at the same time.

I'm not so sure Valkorion can overwhelm Dooku AND Malgus at once. That seems excessive.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lol Aryn Leneer used a form of moving meditation to amplify her speed, it is by no means her actual reaction speed.
You and your assumptions...

Want me to post information here?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Valkorion just unleashes everything he has with the Force. Dooku dies first, then Malgus in short order, then Kun gets overwhelmed once he's on his own.
This.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not so sure Valkorion can overwhelm Dooku AND Malgus at once. That seems excessive.
It is not.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You and your assumptions...

Want me to post information here?

I own the novel, thanks. I spent a serious degree of time debating the maths on TFN so no I am not making assumptions here; I over-analysed her 'feat' and she quite clearly hasn't replicated that speed, or anywhere near it for that matter, in any combative situation.

She sunk into a mindset, presumably moving meditation given her working on the ship's systems the whole time she performed that feat. It states very clearly that she had to maintain complete focus and would exhaust herself doing it for too long.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not so sure Valkorion can overwhelm Dooku AND Malgus at once. That seems excessive.

How so? Malgus and Dooku are indeed both incredibly powerful force users, but we've seen Valkorion one shot comparably/more powerful force users, (Arcann, Revan). His 2nd attack on Arcann in his weakened state also had extreme coverage, making taking them both out at the same time wholely possible.

One-shotting similarly powerful force users doesn't mean he can do so to 2 of them at once. You think he could do that to Revan and Arcann if they were together?

Malgus and Dooku together doesn't compare to Revan and Arcann together, so the point is moot.

Well firstly, Arcann and Revan >/>> Dooku and Deceived!Malgus, and secondly, maybe. I mean he exerted little to no effort when he one shotted Arcann. I don't want to shortchange Revan, but given the ridiculous spread of Valkorion's Lightning, I'd think he could at least overwhelm the two, especially in a setting like this with a 20 meter separation. I'd argue the Outlander is superior to Deceived Malgus, and he gets lolstomped by a much weaker Valkorion.

I forgot this was just Deceived Malgus.

Hell, even if the team closes the distance and cuts Valkorion down, (which I don't think they will,) he'll finish off whoever's left as a spirit.

Outlander> any version of Malgus

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Aryn Leener once approached nanosecond(s) level reaction-time so why this is impossible for Valkorion?

Valkorion did not physically move that fast but unleashed a Force power that fast (reaction-time). This is my point.

Arcann is supposed to be immensely fast by the way. But logically, Arcann is at least as fast as Aryn, and if Valkorion can make Arcann look like he is frozen with his sheer speed, then Valkorion pretty much blitzes every character with ease, which is obviously not the case. His reaction time in flow walking doesn't reflect his actual speed in combat. I didn't clarify but I consider the team victorious if they can bring down Valkorion's body, so his spirit flow walking reaction time is not gonna help him here that much.

I don't doubt his speed though, just saying that he's obviously not x500 faster than anyone else.

Arcann is probably faster than Aryn, just not the mythical one legend is claiming. She is not nanosecond tier outside of a mental state that can incapacitate her if she maintains it too long and she has to maintain full concentration to employ.

Agreed, though I honestly doubt even that Aryn was moving at nanosecond speed as much as it's an extreme over exaggeration on the author's part. I've yet to see anyone break the sound barrier, let alone approaching the speed of light.

The description is very flowery indeed.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Learn to distinguish between attack speed and reaction speed. The former is evidently impressive, but the latter was dependent on a flow-walking ability unique to his spiritual form.
Valkorion flow-walked (and) attacked in split-second moment. Clear enough?

It still isn't helping against Exar Kun, who has clocked reactions and speed far faster than thought by being a perfect match for Ulic Qel-Droma years before his prime.

Or Count Dooku whom has moved fast enough to defend himself against Yoda who is blinding to other High Council members.

How goes your day, ancient?

Uneventful, yourself? Though admittedly finding a great speed feat for Ulic and Kun has brightened my day.

Well, it's 2:05 am where I am, and I'm going to be up the entire night, so pretty eventful.

Ouch, how's the caffeine?

More like adderall, but it's at a pretty high level. If anything it feels like 2 in the afternoon. Getting side effects like loss of appetite, cold sweats, and shrinkage is tough, though. I also possess an insatiable necessity to socialize.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It still isn't helping against Exar Kun, who has clocked reactions and speed far faster than thought by being a perfect match for Ulic Qel-Droma years before his prime.

Or Count Dooku whom has moved fast enough to defend himself against Yoda who is blinding to other High Council members.
Let's put it this way;

Darth Marr can be blindingly fast in combat situations; another Sith Lord (or Jedi) may find it difficult track his moves. Yet, Revan was fast enough to react to Darth Marr's moves in a combat situation. Similarly, Valkorion was fast enough to react to Revan's moves in a combat situation.

My point is that speed is a largely ambiguous benchmark. Therefore, your speed based argument is useless in this debate.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You do good work, LeGenD.

Care to tell us what speed feats Darth Lachriss had at that point? I already know the answer.

By the way you missed the point, Valkorion cannot take down Kun anywhere near as fast as he would need to before Dooku and Malgus had him in a pincer, placing him on the defensive against two masterful duelists and leaving Kun time to retaliate as well.

He cannot sustain his attack on Kun without dying, given that if he does he ends up getting stabbed. If he ceases his attack then Kun gets to retaliate in turn, I don't doubt that he'd likely kill one of Malgus or Dooku but not without leaving open his flank and dying from a blindside attack.

As far as telepathy he goes, against persons of actual note he has successfully broken the minds of Revan and Alek in a prepared ambush, he broke the Hero of Tython, Tol Braga, Kiwiiks, Warren Sedoru and the other with preparation after incapacitating them, all of the aforementioned eventually broke his will. He also has his Ziost feat but in that case he couldn't adequately effect Lana Beniko's mind, only the Sixth Line and the fodder population.

Even then, when Vitiate moved to telepathically dominate Revan, he notably left his guard down and got floored, presumably if he attempts to break somebody here, he is in for two bouts of Force lightning and a Force blast.

I have also heard talk of Valkorion going spirit mode, which I'm quite certain Sinious dismissed. Even so Exar Kun banished the very powerful spirit of Freedon Nadd easily, if Valkorion tries appearing as a spirit here then Kun logically may be able to accomplish the same.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion flow-walked (and) attacked in split-second moment. Clear enough? lmao

Valkorion was fast enough to have an "apocalyptic duel" with the HoT despite being massively weakened and starting the duel with her lightsaber a foot from his face while he was unarmed. He also humiliated Arcann when he attacked him in sabers. Speed isn't a problem with him.