Vakorion vs. Abeloth

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carthage
Can Abeloth bring down the giant?

Emperordmb
Abeloth tentacle rapes him and gets a new avatar body.

Sinious
Originally posted by carthage
Can Abeloth bring down the giant? yes smile

S_W_LeGenD
Abeloth is a terrible fighter but defeating her is far from easy.

Valkorion can down some avatars of Abeloth in a prolonged confrontation but risks loosing a few of his own in the process. Not sure how the two can stop each other in the disembodied form.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Abeloth tentacle rapes him and gets a new avatar body.
Valkorion is not a mortal individual. And no! Abeloth is not raping an entity like Valkorion. If Darth Krayt could withstand her powers, Valkorion can do better.

Emperordmb
Abeloth's not in a heavily weakened or wounded Avatar body, she doesn't have any personal stake in her fight with Valkorion (ie. wanting him to become part of her family), and Valkorion has no assistance.

Valkorion gets absolutely and utterly stomped.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Abeloth's not in a heavily weakened or wounded Avatar body, she doesn't have any personal stake in her fight with Valkorion (ie. wanting him to become part of her family), and Valkorion has no assistance.
Abeloth conjured her strongest avatar to contend with the duo of Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt. This confrontation took place in the realm of Abeloth on top of everything. Yet, the Jedi and Sith were able to withstand her powers.

Luke Skywalker managed to defeat an avatar of Abeloth earlier, using the environment to his advantage. However, Abeloth brought another avatar to overwhelm the Jedi Master soon after.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Valkorion gets absolutely and utterly stomped.
Wishful thinking.

1. Valkorion have superior showings than Abeloth.
2. Valkorion can acquire countless avatars just like Abeloth.
3. Valkorion is most potent in disembodied form.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Abeloth conjured her strongest avatar to contend with the duo of Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt. This confrontation took place in the realm of Abeloth on top of everything.

FACT: powerful Jedi and Sith were able to withstand her powers.
FACT: Luke and Krayt had aid from a Skywalker in Oneness and Vestara Khai amped by the Font of Power, as well as another Jedi. All five of them together definitely exceed Valkorion's power.
FACT: Abeloth had just recently been weakened by the loss of an avatar body, and Abeloth had a particularly vulnerable avatar body that was barely substantiated whose death weakened her.
FACT: FOTJ was not Abeloth's peak.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wishful thinking.

Valkorion have superior showings than Abeloth.

Valkorion can acquire countless avatars just like Abeloth.
Valkorion doesn't have shit on dominating Luke Skywalker in a state of oneness.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
FACT: Luke and Krayt had aid from a Skywalker in Oneness and Vestara Khai amped by the Font of Power, as well as another Jedi.
The Abeloth had created several avatars and the Jedi and Sith created Strike Teams to confront each. Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt fought the most powerful avatar however.

Abeloth's actions aren't much different from those of Sel Makor; creating and using several avatars to overwhelm opposition. With this strategy, the entity can prolong confrontation and get the opportunity to acquire new avatars in the process.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
FACT: Abeloth had just recently been weakened by the loss of an avatar body, and Abeloth had a particularly vulnerable avatar body that was barely substantiated whose death weakened her.
Loss of a single avatar did not had a profound impact on the well-being of Abeloth. Loss of several avatars (collectively) weakened her to the extent that she was unable to function.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Valkorion doesn't have shit on dominating Luke Skywalker in a state of oneness.
Busting a large planet >

AncientPower
Composite full-powered Abeloth quite literally stomps.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
Composite full-powered Abeloth quite literally stomps.
Nonsense.

Have you read Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi: Vortex? I suggest that you do so.

Emperordmb
Fate of the Jedi Vortex? The One where Luke went into a state of Oneness while fighting a weakened Avatar body and Abeloth completely dominated him even then?

Said weakened Avatar body not being comparable to OG body Abeloth who fought the Son and Daughter, or planet assimilating Abeloth who had progressed far beyond the point she was at in FOTJ.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Fate of the Jedi Vortex? The One where Luke went into a state of Oneness while fighting a weakened Avatar body and Abeloth completely dominated him even then?
You are wrong, my friend. I shall refresh your memory.

Abeloth had created a supply of vessels (for herself to use) but she was using them one at a time.

Luke Skywalker contended with two avatars of Abeloth on separate occassions with following outcomes:

1. Abeloth puts Luke on a choke-hold but the Jedi Master manages to overwhelm this avatar by using the environment to his advantage. Luke suffers some injuries as well.

Intermission (Luke proceeds to fight nearby Sith)

2. Abeloth brings another avatar and puts the injured (and demoralized) Luke on the choke-hold again; this time, Luke lacks the strength to withstand her choke-hold for long and makes a desperate attempt to invoke the state of oneness but is prevented from doing so and subdued.

The aforementioned confrontations took place in a cave where a lava pit was present and the Sith were attempting to take advantage of the situation; so there was less room for Luke Skywalker to maneuver.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Said weakened Avatar body not being comparable to OG body Abeloth who fought the Son and Daughter, or planet assimilating Abeloth who had progressed far beyond the point she was at in FOTJ.
Your "weakened" claims are nonsense.

AncientPower
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Fate of the Jedi Vortex? The One where Luke went into a state of Oneness while fighting a weakened Avatar body and Abeloth completely dominated him even then?

Said weakened Avatar body not being comparable to OG body Abeloth who fought the Son and Daughter, or planet assimilating Abeloth who had progressed far beyond the point she was at in FOTJ.

This.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by AncientPower
This.
No, he is wrong and spreading disinformation. See above.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have memory problems, my friend. I shall refresh it.

Abeloth had created a supply of vessels (for herself to use) but she was using them one at a time.

Luke Skywalker contended with two avatars of Abeloth on separate occassions with following outcomes:

1. Abeloth puts Luke on a choke-hold but the Jedi Master manages to overwhelm this avatar by using the environment to his advantage. Luke suffers some injuries as well.

Intermission (Luke proceeds to fight nearby Sith)

2. Abeloth brings another avatar and puts the injured (and demoralized) Luke on the choke-hold again; this time, Luke lacks the strength to withstand her choke-hold for long and attempts to invoke the state of oneness but is prevented from doing so and subdued.

The aforementioned confrontations took place in a cave where a lava pit was present and the Sith were attempting to take advantage of the situation; so there was less room for Luke Skywalker to maneuver.
Ummm it was her first Avatar body that overwhelmed Luke in a state of Oneness. And also, this was right after Abeloth got a leg and arm chopped off, was submerged in a pool of lava, was stabbed, had three of her ribs broken, and had lava thrown all over her back, and she was simultaneously maintaining an illusory hold over several Sith.

Don't pretend Luke was somehow the one disadvantaged by circumstance in that instance.

Also don't insult me and accuse me of lying for my recollection of events in a novel when your recollection you are so pompously and arrogantly professing to be correct is inaccurate. It just makes you come off as an ignorant douche, and just makes you look like even more of a dumbass when someone proves you wrong.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ummm it was her first Avatar body that overwhelmed Luke in a state of Oneness.
The first avatar (Akanah) failed to subdue Luke Skywalker, period.

As far as the oneness claim is concerned; Luke Skywalker called upon the Force in similar manner as Revan against Vitiate long ago; difference in both scenarios is that Luke was experiencing an unusually strong physical choke-hold while Revan was experiencing a powerful telepathic assault.

Luke responded by pulling a heavy beam towards the position of the avatar (Akanah), using it to crush it.

Revan responded by unleashing a powerful Force-wave, sending Vitiate packing across the hall.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And also, this was right after Abeloth got a leg and arm chopped off, was submerged in a pool of lava, was stabbed, had three of her ribs broken, and had lava thrown all over her back, and she was simultaneously maintaining an illusory hold over several Sith.
Luke initially assaulted the avatar (Akanah) with his Lightsaber (injuring it) and than Force-pushed this avatar into the nearby pit of lava. However, a few Sith diverted Luke's attention towards them and Abeloth took advantage of the situation; the avatar (Akanah) somehow managed to escape the pit of lava and caught Luke by surprise, putting him in a choke-hold.

Soon after, Luke did all he could to destroy the avatar (Akanah) and he was successful. However, the Jedi Master suffered some injures in the process.

Of-course, if a being as powerful as Abeloth puts another Force-user in a choke-hold than she is more likely to prevail.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Don't pretend Luke was somehow the one disadvantaged by circumstance in that instance.
Luke was doing just fine until the Sith grabbed his attention and Abeloth managed to take advantage of this situation.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Also don't insult me and accuse me of lying for my recollection of events in a novel when your recollection you are so pompously and arrogantly professing to be correct is inaccurate. It just makes you come off as an ignorant douche, and just makes you look like even more of a dumbass when someone proves you wrong.
Easy there. My intention was not to insult you.

I am pointing out a fact that Abeloth was at the height of her power during the events of Vortex and Luke still managed to defeat one of her avatars. Your recollection of events is far from perfect and agenda-filled.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The first avatar (Akanah) failed to subdue Luke Skywalker, period.

As far as the oneness claim is concerned; Luke Skywalker called upon the Force in similar manner as Revan against Vitiate long ago; difference in both scenarios is that Luke was experiencing an unusually strong physical choke-hold while Revan was experiencing a powerful telepathic assault.

Luke responded by pulling a heavy beam towards the position of the avatar (Akanah), using it to crush it.

Revan responded by unleashing a powerful Force-wave, sending Vitiate packing across the hall.
Luke actually managed enough room to catch his breath right before going into oneness. And with Oneness, Luke was pulling himself and Abeloth up, then Abeloth overpowered him regardless. Luke was trying to get himself enough space to fight by pulling them upwards, the beam falling on Abeloth wasn't exactly intentional on Luke's part.

Not to mention, Luke states at one point that Abeloth's power is almost beyond his comprehension and another time that she's using the Force with far greater strength than he ever did, which includes the times he's been in oneness, the time Leia joined her and the unborn Anakin's power with him to overwhelm DE Sidious, the time he was in proximity to the kaibur crystal, etc.

Abeloth being substantially more powerful than Luke is no question it's a fact.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke initially assaulted the avatar (Akanah) with his Lightsaber (injuring it) and than Force-pushed this avatar into the nearby pit of lava. However, a few Sith diverted Luke's attention towards them and Abeloth took advantage of the situation; the avatar (Akanah) somehow managed to escape the pit of lava and caught Luke by surprise, putting him in a choke-hold.

Soon after, Luke did all he could to destroy the avatar (Akanah) and he was successful. However, the Jedi Master suffered some injures in the process.

Of-course, if a being as powerful as Abeloth puts another Force-user in a choke-hold than she is more likely to prevail.


Luke was doing just fine until the Sith grabbed his attention and Abeloth managed to take advantage of this situation.
You do realize Abeloth was trying to seduce Luke before she fell into the lava right? And not to mention Abeloth was simultaneously mindraping all of the Sith present with the exception of Taalon and Vestara.


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Easy there. My intention was not to insult you.

I am pointing out a fact that Abeloth was at the height of her power during the events of Vortex and Luke still managed to defeat one of her avatars. Your recollection of events is far from perfect and agenda-filled.
Abeloth was certainly not at the height of her power during the events of Vortex.

You seem to have forgotten earlier in the series when Abeloth was handling Luke with substantial help just fine in Allies.

Or in Apocalypse when she has him on his ass almost immediately after their fight in the Jedi temple began.

Vortex absolutely is not Abeloth's peak in power. She's better in apocalypse and in her only 1v1 with Luke in apocalypse she utterly stomped him. In Vortex she was weakened from the loss of her body on her planet, and certainly not that soon after her escape from the maw. The longer Abeloth is out of her prison the further and further she progresses, and she had not progressed to nearly the point in FOTJ that she had in past escapes, where she had assimilated entire planets into her being and singlehandedly wiped out various civilizations.


When Luke was in Oneness and Abeloth was in a heavily wounded body, she physically overpowered him and slammed him into the ground. In Allies when her powers were being stifled by the combined efforts of hundreds of Sith at once, Abeloth ragdolled Luke and several other Sith. When Abeloth had just suffered the loss of one avatar, she floored Luke with a single telekinetic strike when he charged her. When they encountered each other in the temple, Abeloth beat him almost immediately.

And none of this is at Abeloth's peak, and none of this is within the range of Valkorion's capabilities.

NewGuy01
Abeloth actually can kill Vitiate's spirit beyond shadows, lol.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion won't defeat Abeloth, but the Godlander might.

Trocity
Abeloth wrecks, and when did Valkorion ever bust a planet?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
He's talking about Ziost.

Trocity
Ahhhhh ok yeah, I should have known. That didn't really even enter my mind when I was reading this thread. The Ziost feat is super impressive, but that's no where near busting a planet lol

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

Beniboybling
Yah only DE Palpatine has that kind of power. smile

Tondemonai
Kek

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Valkorion won't defeat Abeloth, but the Godlander might.
His will commands a thousand stars.

Sinious
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yah only DE Palpatine has that kind of power. smile indeed

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yah only DE Palpatine has that kind of power. smile
Force Storm (Wormhole) cannot obliterate an entire planet in the manner you presume. It can wreck the surface or crust at maximum.

Moreover, Palpatine had limitation in the aspect of conjuring and controlling the Force Storm (Wormhole) power.

FreshestSlice
1. Stop calling it "Force Storm(Wormhole)." We know what you're talking about and it just becomes jarring to read after you repeat the phrase five or six times.
2. Yes, yes it can.
2. No, he didn't. He could conjure them at will and could safely move Luke across the galaxy with them, and even if he couldn't, he doesn't need to control it to wreck a planet.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
1. Stop calling it "Force Storm(Wormhole)." We know what you're talking about and it just becomes jarring to read after you repeat the phrase five or six times.
Yes, Sir. embarrasment

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
2. Yes, yes it can.
It's Luke's opinion.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
2. No, he didn't. He could conjure them at will and could safely move Luke across the galaxy with them, and even if he couldn't, he doesn't need to control it to wreck a planet.
Form Storm is essentially a wormhole. It can be utilized for destructive purposes but it is not like a black-hole.

Yes, a Wormhole can devastate a region, depending upon the circumstances. But to bust a planet, the wormhole have to be stupendously big.

EmperorSidious2
Absolutely a stomp. Valkorion dies in less than 2 seconds.

SunRazer
Abeloth rips him apart. She's several orders of power beyond the Sith Emperor.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It's Luke's opinion.

As awful as Luke's opinion is, it's pretty accurate here.

No one's talking about Palpatine casually blowing up a planet, kek.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke actually managed enough room to catch his breath right before going into oneness. And with Oneness, Luke was pulling himself and Abeloth up, then Abeloth overpowered him regardless. Luke was trying to get himself enough space to fight by pulling them upwards, the beam falling on Abeloth wasn't exactly intentional on Luke's part.
When Abeloth's avatar (Akanah) attacked Luke Skywalker from behind, he managed to flip on his back before he hit the floor. As soon as the avatar (Akanah) was all-over Luke, she put him in a choke-hold. From hereon-wards, Luke was essentially in a compromised position. Luke could still muster sufficient strength to prevent Abeloth from crushing his neck and stab her with his Lightsaber. But the Lightsaber impalement didn't work so Luke resorted to attacking Abeloth with nearby objects (half a dozen loose cushions first; then a glob of molten lava; and eventually a heavy crossbeam). The glob of molten lava weakened the Abeloth's avatar (Akanah) and the heavy crossbeam sealed its fate.

He continued to reach with the Force, now going higher toward the ceiling vault, and caught hold of one of the long crossbeams that held the roof in place. Luke pulled, trying to open a little space so he could gain his feet and fight, and they both began to rise.

Abeloth pulled in the opposite direction, and they dropped back to the floor.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

After the above, Luke called upon the Force on a greater level (oneness like event; similar to Revan's) and tore a long crossbeam from its foundation. And the end-result:

Then a two-meter length of beam came plummeting out of the darkness and caught Abeloth across the back. The impact compressed his chest until he thought it would split. Then her leg went slack, her stump slipped from Luke's throat, and she fell motionless. Her face pressed against his, cheek-to-cheek.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

The crossbeam falling on the avatar (Akanah) was actually intentional on Luke's part. It was located right above the position of the avatar.

Your point is moot.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not to mention, Luke states at one point that Abeloth's power is almost beyond his comprehension and another time that she's using the Force with far greater strength than he ever did, which includes the times he's been in oneness, the time Leia joined her and the unborn Anakin's power with him to overwhelm DE Sidious, the time he was in proximity to the kaibur crystal, etc.

Abeloth being substantially more powerful than Luke is no question it's a fact.
Luke felt overwhelmed by the fact that Abeloth had a virtually endless supply of vessels at her disposal and was stronger then any Jedi on individual basis.

Luke could take down an avatar or two under the right circumstances but could not afford to defeat Abeloth in a real-time situation due to her capabilities. Real-time situation is the key term.

The following revelation says it all:

And yet, the woman Luke had just slain had also been Abeloth. There could be no other explanation for the power she had wielded. They were both Abeloth.

Luke began to loose heart. He did not think he had the strength to kill her

... again. And if he was lucky enough to succeed, how many times would she return? Not wanting to be trapped near the stage pit, he limped toward the front of the hall.

"How many bodies do you have?" He asked.

"More than you can kill." The Callista-eyes shone, perhaps in delight at the fear she was causing Luke, and she began to advance. "I promise you that."

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

There is also this revelation:

Abeloth's effort to set them against each other was a good sign, suggesting she lacked strength to battle them outright. Unfortunately, it was also a good tactic, as Luke could not permit any Sith to know Allana's true identity and leave the hall alive.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex

The revelation implies that Abeloth could not defeat Luke and Taalon together in a confrontation, with a single avatar at the least.

The word power does not just translates to 'raw power' in a strict sense, it has a greater meaning. Abeloth was substantially more powerful then any Jedi in the sense that she had a virtually endless supply of vessels at her disposal (and) raw power greater then that of any Jedi as well. Luke could not hope to defeat Abeloth in a prolonged confrontation and/or real-time situation because he did not possess similar capabilities.

Focus on the context, my friend.

Now, replace Abeloth with Valkorion and Luke will find himself in the same boat again. Luke might be capable of tackling an avatar of Valkorion under the right circumstances but he cannot defeat Valkorion in a real-time situation.
+
Valkorion is also substantially more powerful than any Jedi and/or Sith by virtue of his capabilities and raw power. Following statements:

"The Dread Masters changed Oricon. Even their combined power is insignificant compared to the Emperor."

&

"...The Emperor will prove far too powerful for Revan, or anyone else." (Darth Marr)

- make absolute sense, right? Yes, they do. Full stop.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You do realize Abeloth was trying to seduce Luke before she fell into the lava right? And not to mention Abeloth was simultaneously mindraping all of the Sith present with the exception of Taalon and Vestara.
Yes, but that trick didn't work. Luke saw through the ruse and Force-pushed her avatar (Akanah) in to the nearby pit of lava.

Additionally;

Where it is stated that Abeloth was multi-tasking during her confrontations with Luke? Sarasu Taalon and Vestara were exceptions now?

Keep up the good work. All the hype that you have created about Abeloth, will evaporate in this debate. I'll make sure of it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Abeloth was certainly not at the height of her power during the events of Vortex.
Based on?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
You seem to have forgotten earlier in the series when Abeloth was handling Luke with substantial help just fine in Allies.
You are referring to a Force-wave unleashed by Abeloth? The entity fled after knocking Luke and his allies with a Force-wave.

Do keep in mind Revan's signature Force-wave as well; the one that sent 8 individuals packing across the arena simultaneously including powerhouses Satele Shan and Darth Marr. And Valkorion >>

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Or in Apocalypse when she has him on his ass almost immediately after their fight in the Jedi temple began.
And?

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vortex absolutely is not Abeloth's peak in power. She's better in apocalypse
Was Abeloth growing in power with passage of time? Provide evidence.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
and in her only 1v1 with Luke in apocalypse she utterly stomped him.
She didn't utterly stomp him. Luke held his own for a while in spite of being injured earlier.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
In Vortex she was weakened from the loss of her body on her planet, and certainly not that soon after her escape from the maw.
This was the situation 'after' a prolonged confrontation with Luke and his allies.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
The longer Abeloth is out of her prison the further and further she progresses, and she had not progressed to nearly the point in FOTJ that she had in past escapes, where she had assimilated entire planets into her being and singlehandedly wiped out various civilizations.
I am not getting this.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
When Luke was in Oneness and Abeloth was in a heavily wounded body, she physically overpowered him and slammed him into the ground.
Luke managed to pull-off what he wanted to do. Abeloth's effort was in vain.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
In Allies when her powers were being stifled by the combined efforts of hundreds of Sith at once, Abeloth ragdolled Luke and several other Sith.
Provide evidence.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
When Abeloth had just suffered the loss of one avatar, she floored Luke with a single telekinetic strike when he charged her. When they encountered each other in the temple, Abeloth beat him almost immediately.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
And none of this is at Abeloth's peak, and none of this is within the range of Valkorion's capabilities.
Nice joke.

Abeloth was not consistently weakened; she suffered a setback from her confrontations in Vortex but managed to recover afterwards. However, she miscalculated her chances during the events of Apocalypse by adopting the strategy of multi-tasking:

The theory was that Abeloth had only a single Force presence, shared by her avatars, so harming any of her avatars would make it easier to defeat all of them. Assuming that the shadow-gouls were being animated by Abeloth - and Saba saw no other possibility - then they were growing weaker because Luke was succeeding in the Maw.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse

Using a single avatar at a time, was safer approach. Multi-tasking during a prolonged confrontation led to her downfall.

As far as Valkorion is concerned, he holds his own in the domain of feats and accomplishments. He clearly matches Abeloth in some areas and is even better then her in some.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Emperordmb
When Abeloth had just suffered the loss of one avatar, she floored Luke with a single telekinetic strike when he charged her. When they encountered each other in the temple, Abeloth beat him almost immediately.
Lesser Force-users have affected Luke with their telekinetic abilities.

FreshestSlice
Damn, DMB. You really going to let LeGenD treat you like this is the TOR forum?

Sinious
I believe in you, Legend. Prove Valkorion > Abeloth. smile

FreshestSlice
Honestly, LeGenD has the better argument here, but all common sense points in DMb's favor.

Nephthys
thumb up

Valkorion honestly might have better feats than Abeloth, but Abeloth should win anyway unless she bungles it just because One's should be far above the likes of Valkorion.

Sinious
Better combat feats most likely, but Abeloth still has superior showings of raw power.

Nephthys
Better than life-wiping Ziost?

Sinious
The amount of time and effort went into that compared to Abeloth's creating a volcano from the ground and destroying entire city feats (both pulled off at will iirc) is inferior in raw power imo.

Syndicate
Originally posted by Sinious
The amount of time and effort went into that compared to Abeloth's creating a volcano from the ground and destroying entire city feats (both pulled off at will iirc) is inferior in raw power imo.

I have to admit that line of reasoning doesn't really make sense to me.

Nephthys
It took time and effort because Vitiate was in a weakened spirit form. erm

Sinious
Still, its a more complex way of achieving destruction than the two feats I've mentioned, so I don't see it as purely raw power.

But, I haven't considered the fact that Vitiate was weakened, damn. erm

Syndicate
I think I'm slowly being turned to the side of Vitiate > Sidious...

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Sinious
The amount of time and effort went into that compared to Abeloth's creating a volcano from the ground and destroying entire city feats (both pulled off at will iirc) is inferior in raw power imo.
A one off Sith from TOR destroyed a city with "raw power" tho.

Sinious
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
A one off Sith from TOR destroyed a city with "raw power" tho. lmfao damn maybe he is above Abe..... smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. Vitiate while weakened cleansed the planet, then gained all the power from all those millions of deaths. Hence his oneshot-fests. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
The amount of time and effort went into that compared to Abeloth's creating a volcano from the ground and destroying entire city feats (both pulled off at will iirc) is inferior in raw power imo.
My friend,

Abeloth did not create a volcano, she caused eruption of a dormant one.

The dormant volcano was dormant no longer. Gouts of orange magma spewed kilometers into the air and rained death down along the side of the mountain. It was a terrifying sight, but what alarmed Luke even more than the racing lava was the cloud above it. It looked like smoke, churning and billowing, gray and thick, but it was nothing so benevolent as mere choking ash. He knew what he was looking at.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse

More importantly:

Abeloth was feeding on the dark side energy of their fear, Ben knew. He had seen her do it on Pydyr, when the entire population of the moon believed they were dying from an illusory plague. And now she was doing it on Coruscant, where the anxiety of the inhabitants had to be mounting by the hour as the battle raged ever more fiercely. With trillions of inhabitants on Coruscant, Abeloth's harvest would be limitless. Ben could not help wondering if this had been her plan all along - to set Jedi and Sith against each other, then feast on the fallout.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse

&

It was being drawn down into the heart of the Jedi Temple, where in the computer core on level 351, Abeloth was feeding on the dark side power being released by billions of terrified Coruscanti.

Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse

Abeloth fed on the energy emitted by billions of inhabitants of the planet Coruscant to acquire sufficient strength to cause seismic activity throughout the world (i.e. Coruscant) and multi-task in combat situations. She had a virtually endless supply of reserves on this world.

--

Valkorion's showings on Ziost are relatively superior. He managed to telepathically influence nearly the entire populace of Ziost, using them to spread chaos and bloodshed. At the same time, Valkorion fed on the chaos and bloodshed to recover his strength or become more powerful then ever before. When he recovered, he devastated the entire world with a blast of power soon after.

Global cataclysms are not unheard of. Whole worlds teeming with life have been rendered lifeless by meteorites, broken apart by instability in the planet's own core--even atomized by the destructive force of a supernova. But the eerie calm of a world stripped of life yet left otherwise intact is another matter altogether. Whispered rumors have persisted of planets snuffed out through intricate Sith rituals or by way of deadly, arcane machines--such as the device Revan sought to employ on Yavin 4--but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

To give you an idea, Darth Bane conjured a Death Field of about 30m in diameter and he could not sustain it without drawing on the power of the nexus and consuming his opponents. In contrast, Valkorion created a Death Field and expanded it across the planet Ziost, consuming all life-forms and ravaging the environment of the world in the process. The kinetic energy behind Valkorion's ultimate attack caused seismic activity throughout the world and even shook the space stations.

Therefore, we have statements of Valkorion being miles ahead of any Jedi and/or Sith in power and capabilities.

Sinious
So feats wise, is there no one above Valkorion? smile

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
At this point, he should be banned from versus debates. smile

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
So feats wise, is there no one above Valkorion? smile
Only Bedlam spirits.

Sinious
Makes sense, though only until the arrival of GodLander who will transcend time and space and eventually the Force itself through becoming its master.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
Makes sense, though only until the arrival of GodLander who will transcend time and space and eventually the Force itself through becoming its master.
Who is GodLander?

Sinious
Freshest should fill you in on that. He is the gonna surpass the Mortis trio and become the godfather of the force.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Who is GodLander?

"Forget what your old masters taught you. Not even Valkorion understands. The Force is not an ally, slave, or transaction. The Force is a paradox. It empowers, and imprisons. It destroys and unites. It binds the galaxy together, and tears people apart. It has a will... but needs a commander."
"You will create a pure extension of the Force's will--one you alone control. With it, you can unite a thousand stars."
"Trust in the path ahead. Your Alliance... and the Force... awaits its Commander. Farewell."

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Sinious
Freshest should fill you in on that. He is the gonna surpass the Mortis trio and become the godfather of the force.
Interesting. Most interesting.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
"Forget what your old masters taught you. Not even Valkorion understands. The Force is not an ally, slave, or transaction. The Force is a paradox. It empowers, and imprisons. It destroys and unites. It binds the galaxy together, and tears people apart. It has a will... but needs a commander."
"You will create a pure extension of the Force's will--one you alone control. With it, you can unite a thousand stars."
"Trust in the path ahead. Your Alliance... and the Force... awaits its Commander. Farewell."
Jesus.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So basically, every being in the entire mythos got it wrong and the Outlander has the opportunity to become... God?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So basically, every being in the entire mythos got it wrong and the Outlander has the opportunity to become... God?
Damn

Well, as far as I am aware, those assertions about the Force are true to an extent. Scary stuff.

Moreover;

"I have evolved beyond Light and Dark."

What do fellow members make of the aforementioned statement?

Nephthys
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
So basically, every being in the entire mythos got it wrong and the Outlander has the opportunity to become... God?

It's not an opportunity, it's a promise. estahuh

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Damn

Well, as far as I am aware, those assertions about the Force are true to an extent. Scary stuff.

Moreover;

"I have evolved beyond Light and Dark."

What do fellow members make of the aforementioned statement?

It means Valkorion is no longer bound by anything. Not the light, the dark or any.... statements that may pertain to them. shifty

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Honestly, there's probably been about 5 understandings of the force shown in KOTFE:

Light
Dark
Transaction (Knights of Zakuul)
Whatever Valkorion is
Paradox (will of the force)

Something tells me that Valkorion aligns oppositely with the Paradox understanding.

Sinious
I myself have been contemplating on howw Valkorion's take on the force is linked to Zakuul's if it is at all.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The thing about the transaction understanding is that I think it's reserved for the Knights and citizens of Zakuul, given that the understanding is based on their endearment towards the Immortal Emperor.

Sinious
Why would the Knights not like the Emperor?

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
When did I say they wouldn't? That's how the Knights draw on the force. Through their devotion to the Emperor. Or something like that.

Sinious
LOL I'm high and tipsy and read that as "reversed for the knights and citizens"

No regrets tbh

Tondemonai
Originally posted by Syndicate
I think I'm slowly being turned to the side of Vitiate > Sidious...

You have at last been enlightened. I thought it never to happen, but you have realized the truth of the matter and enlightened yourself

Trocity
When Tond says you've been enlightened, you know you f***ed up.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tond isn't wrong that Valkorion > Sidious, right Trocity? smile

SunRazer
There's also Abeloth shutting down the visuals of all ships in an entire solar system, with enough potency for the disruptions to seemingly be caused by solar flares.

Trocity
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Tond isn't wrong that Valkorion > Sidious, right Trocity? smile

Perhaps.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You must bend. smile

AncientPower
Evolve or perish Trocity.

FreshestSlice
Those who don't bend, break! Move beyond Palpatine or Luke.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Out with Sidious and Luke. In with Valkorion and the Godlander.

JKBart
sorry

Trocity
https://youtu.be/qvWv3uosN9E?t=60

NewGuy01
I think Valky's talk is a bunch of pish-posh, because he's still clearly an evil lightning-spamming bastard. He's clearly dark-oriented, even if he's not as narrow minded as most Sith anymore.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I think Valky's talk is a bunch of pish-posh, because he's still clearly an evil lightning-spamming bastard. He's clearly dark-oriented, even if he's not as narrow minded as most Sith anymore.

Gotta love it when a genocidal narcissistic tyrant waxes philosophic bullshit about moral ambiguity and young dumbasses fall for it.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I think Valky's talk is a bunch of pish-posh, because he's still clearly an evil lightning-spamming bastard. He's clearly dark-oriented, even if he's not as narrow minded as most Sith anymore.
That's great, but since nothing in game supports you, and more importantly contradicts you, your opinion, while noted, means absolute shit.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Gotta love it when Valkorion inevitably proves you (temp, sas) wrong again. smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Gotta love it when Valkorion inevitably proves you (temp, sas) wrong again. smile

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/peter-skins-his-knee-family-guy.gif

How's that knee feelin'? excellent

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Rather fine. You're gonna wanna stick around when Valkorion surpasses everyone. smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Rather fine. You're gonna wanna stick around when Valkorion surpasses everyone. smile

http://kidshealth.org/EN/images/headers/P-kneeInjuries-enHD-AR1.jpg

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes. Keep insulting my muscular knees. smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yes. Keep insulting my muscular knees. smile

I've no doubt they're particularly calloused from all that kneeling. wink

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It's forced me to get in the weight room and grow stronger.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It's forced me to get in the weight room and grow stronger.

Heh, while I'm pleased by the insinuation that my will forced you to submit, we both know the truth is that you capitulated and willingly knelt.

For while you may posture, your shame will ensure that you never truly rise, my servant. excellent

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ever since you died, I've been busy silently probing levels of SWTOR wank and proceeding to increase it. Your reign is over

The_Tempest
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Ever since you died, I've been busy silently probing levels of SWTOR wank and proceeding to increase it. Your reign is over

That you would, in your desperation, align your views with those of lesser creatures is proof enough that Sheev still haunts your dreams. You've long-since abandoned scholarly debate and flung yourself bodily over the precipice of reason into the abyss of shitposting and trolling, like the angsty teen who an hero'skills himself to escape the perpetual misery of life.

Either way, your soul is mine. I have claimed it and your knee for Sheev. excellent

FreshestSlice
LeGenD has become powerful. He's feasted on the TOR forum unchecked for some time now. He's actually winning a debate with DMB about Valkorion against a Ones' level opponent. All is lost.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
LeGenD has become powerful. He's feasted on the TOR forum unchecked for some time now. He's actually winning a debate with DMB about Valkorion against a Ones' level opponent. All is lost.

Does citing a dozen sources without constructing a meaningful argument comprise winning now? He might make for a hell of a bibliographer, but he certainly hasn't made a great case here.

You only compound his failure by praising it. Your flattery compels him to surge onward.

FreshestSlice
It does when he's citing DMB's sources against him.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It does when he's citing DMB's sources against him.

We'll see how it plays out; don't count DMB out yet. Remember: he's still proudly waving the banner of the dead horse named Bane like the most spastic member of a high school colorguard.

FreshestSlice
True, but much like Bane, everyone but Neph will begin to disagree with him as this goes on.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
True, but much like Bane, everyone but Neph will begin to disagree with him as this goes on.

Perhaps. But a being on a slightly lower tier than the Mortis Anchorites is still well above Valkorion's paygrade.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Not necessarily. smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Not necessarily. smile

http://www.kneepainrunning.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Causes-of-Knee-Pain-in-Children.jpg

That's a cute helmet you're wearing, servant. excellent

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Temp, you use snapchat?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Does citing a dozen sources without constructing a meaningful argument comprise winning now? He might make for a hell of a bibliographer, but he certainly hasn't made a great case here.

You only compound his failure by praising it. Your flattery compels him to surge onward.
Talk about desperation.

How about you offer a counterargument?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
I think Valky's talk is a bunch of pish-posh, because he's still clearly an evil lightning-spamming bastard. He's clearly dark-oriented, even if he's not as narrow minded as most Sith anymore.
His majesty uses electric-judgement. Happy Dance

NewGuy01
As I recall, in the fight where you use Valkorion's power, the lightning ability is listed as "dark side blast". confused

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
How's skyrim?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
There's also Abeloth shutting down the visuals of all ships in an entire solar system, with enough potency for the disruptions to seemingly be caused by solar flares.
Yes, that is a very good feat. Don't recall Valkorion attempting something similar so far but he has a Teleportation showing that blinded everything in the surroundings, causing numerous casualties in the process.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138626/4558718-9974502854-b4ia8.gif

"We suffered many casualties upon the Emperor's return..." (Darth Marr)

Do keep in mind that Valkorion was far from his peak while performing the aforementioned action.

However, I have something better for comparison: Valkorion demonstrated the power to create beings of pure dark side energy with sheer force of will. For example, he conjured Monoliths on Ziost to spread chaos and destruction across the planet and fuel his feeding effort as a consequence. These monsters were/are virtually indestructible.

Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor

Moreover, in the upcoming Chapter 12, Valkorion will 'transform' the Outlander with his powers. The transformation would be of such a magnitude that if the Outlander was a normal individual before, he will emerge as a powerful Force-user afterwards.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
As I recall, in the fight where you use Valkorion's power, the lightning ability is listed as "dark side blast". confused
I was teasing. smile

Do the Jedi not perceive Electric Judgement as a Dark Side ability? I suppose they do. Correct me, if I am wrong.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
You do good work, LeGenD.

Syndicate
LeGenD has impressed me recently.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Syndicate, out of curiosity, are you on anything rn?

SunRazer
Valkorion's teleportation feat isn't even in the same league as Abeloth wrecking the visuals of all ships across an entire solar system.

The creation of the Monoliths is off-panel and doesn't constitute something that could be brought to a fight.

Nephthys
Life-wiping a planet so hard the space station feels it > messing with visuals. Range isn't superior to power.

SunRazer
Too bad whatever Abeloth did had the approximate power of solar flares, which would also devastate planets if they were in the proximity of one. That's apart from the fact that Abeloth has subconsciously melted cities by getting angry.

And unless I'm mistaken, they felt it through the Force, and of course that would happen upon tremendous loss of life.

Nephthys
Planet > city. And metaphorically being compared to a solar flare isn't the same as actually being comparable to one in terms of power.

Vitiate could sneeze and it'd be felt through the Force, c'mon. laughing

SunRazer
Subconsciously doing it > putting in actual effort. Also, it wasn't metaphorical - they literally thought it was the work of solar flares, IIRC.

I can imagine ol'Brit Valkorion sneezing, but the Vitiate that HoT fought in the temple, with the Voldemort-slits? Nah.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Valkorion's teleportation feat isn't even in the same league as Abeloth wrecking the visuals of all ships across an entire solar system.
This is a terrible argument.

Valkorion's teleportation effort was not intended to accomplish that. We get to witness its residual effects.

Originally posted by SunRazer
The creation of the Monoliths is off-panel and doesn't constitute something that could be brought to a fight.
You will see in Chapter 12.

SunRazer
You were the one who mentioned the teleportation feat in response to me bringing up Abeloth's feat. You started the comparison - I'm just saying that it's not comparable.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
You were the one who mentioned the teleportation feat in response to me bringing up Abeloth's feat. You started the comparison - I'm just saying that it's not comparable.
I mentioned it because it achieved similar effects. However, there is more to the argument at hand.

If Valkorion could blind virtually everybody on a massive scale (causing nuemerous casualties in the process) with just the residual effect of his teleportation effort in a weakened form; imagine the possibilities when he is at his prime and have the intention to do something similar to Abeloth's feat.

SunRazer
Yeah, no. A solar system is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the radius Vitiate covered.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Nephthys
Range isn't superior to power.


I mean, Kaan could telepathically compel every Sith in the galaxy. That's far greater range than, say, Sidious has ever shown. Is Kaan a better telepath than Sidious?

Beniboybling
You're assuming on no basis Sidious couldn't do the same.

Seeing as he's significantly more powerful in general and more dominating as a telepath, I would say he can.

SunRazer
Sidious has maintained galactic telepathic influence before, anyway.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Yeah, no. A solar system is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the radius Vitiate covered.
Again, your argument remains terrible. Your argument is like this:

1. Abeloth kicks a football, sending it across the field.

2. Valkorion hits the ground, the force of impact sends the football moving some distance in the field.

Therefore, range covered by Abeloth > Vitiate.

What a terrible argument. I have not seen one such in a long time.

This is my point: If Valkorion could blind virtually everybody on a massive scale (causing nuemerous casualties in the process) with just the residual effect of his teleportation effort in a weakened form; imagine the possibilities when he is at his prime and have the intention to do something similar to Abeloth's feat.

Try to understand my point.

Nephthys
Never across the whole galaxy to that many force users with that great an effect.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
You're assuming on no basis Sidious couldn't do the same.

Seeing as he's significantly more powerful in general and more dominating as a telepath, I would say he can.

Thanks for agreeing with my point.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again, your argument remains terrible. Your argument is like this:

1. Abeloth kicks a football, sending it across the field. to the moon.

2. Valkorion hits the ground, the force of impact sends the football moving some distance in the field.

Therefore, range covered by Abeloth > Vitiate.

What a terrible argument. I have not seen one such in a long time.

This is my point: If Valkorion could blind virtually everybody on a massive scale (causing nuemerous casualties in the process) with just the residual effect of his teleportation effort in a weakened form; imagine the possibilities when he is at his prime and have the intention to do something similar to Abeloth's feat.

Try to understand my point. Fixed lmao, assuming creating a blinding flash of light over kilometers remotely compares to doing the same across light years is ridiculous.

It wouldn't even have been visible from orbit.Originally posted by Nephthys
Thanks for agreeing with my point. Right.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Fixed lmao, assuming creating a blinding flash of light over kilometers remotely compares to doing the same across light years is ridiculous.

It wouldn't even have been visible from orbit.Right.
1. Abeloth did not unleash a flash of light.

2. Valkorion's teleportation effort emitted a flash of light, leading to nuemerous casualties among the forces stationed nearby or in the space.

3. The two feats are vastly different with different intent behind them.

SunRazer
@S_W_Legend - Yes, and here's my point - the range of the feats is so vast that even if Vitiate was stripped of the hindrances and attempted a similar feat, he probably wouldn't be able to replicate it. Your belief that he can perform something better if he tried something like that is completely unfounded and based precisely on your quantification of the feats, which you can't prove.

The analogy is more like:

1. Abeloth kicks a football 14000 meters.

2. An injured Vitiate knocks a football 3 meters by smashing the ground.

Therefore, if an uninjured Vitiate tried kicking the ball, he'd be able to replicate or exceed the 14000 meter coverage by Abeloth. That's not how it works.

Nephthys
Darth Vader choked some dude across the galaxy. Exar Kun choked 8 Jedi in the same room as him. These are comparable because distance is a big factor for an omnipresent energy field, despite how much more ridiculously powerful the latter feat is.

Seems legit.

SunRazer
Except for the fact that a solar flare would've been even more potent than what Vitiate did. So it's not just more range - it's also just more potent.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Abeloth did not unleash a flash of light.

2. Valkorion's teleportation effort emitted a flash of light, leading to nuemerous casualties among the forces stationed nearby or in the space.

3. The two feats are vastly different with different intent behind them. Shall we start with three? Considering it would invalidate any attempt by yourself to draw a comparison between them. erm

Nephthys
Except that she didn't actually do a solar flare so it's irrelevant. All she did was mess up a bunch of ships visuals with the Force. Big deal. You don't need to match the power of an actual event to do something with the Force. People have demonstrated abilities much more potent than that who are firmly beneath Valkorion.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
@S_W_Legend - Yes, and here's my point - the range of the feats is so vast that even if Vitiate was stripped of the hindrances and attempted a similar feat, he probably wouldn't be able to replicate it. Your belief that he can perform something better if he tried something like that is completely unfounded and based precisely on your quantification of the feats, which you can't prove.

The analogy is more like:

1. Abeloth kicks a football 14000 meters.

2. An injured Vitiate knocks a football 3 meters by smashing the ground.

Therefore, if an uninjured Vitiate tried kicking the ball, he'd be able to replicate or exceed the 14000 meter coverage by Abeloth. That's not how it works.
Now, this is much better stated. Credit where due.

However, Valkorion have demonstrated the ability to affect targets from light-years distances as well as the strength to replicate Abeloth's showings in other areas.

So why this case is an exception?

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Nephthys
Except that she didn't actually do a solar flare so it's irrelevant. All she did was mess up a bunch of ships visuals with the Force. Big deal. You don't need to match the power of an actual event to do something with the Force. People have demonstrated abilities much more potent than that who are firmly beneath Valkorion. Funnily enough its stated to be outside of Grand Master Luke's abilities, and they decide that only Abeloth would capable of such power. So naw.

SunRazer
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Now, this is much better stated. Credit where due.

However, Valkorion have demonstrated the ability to affect targets from light-years distances as well as the strength to replicate Abeloth's showings in other areas.

So why this case is an exception?

Aside from the fact that Vitiate hasn't replicated Abeloth's showings in other areas, this isn't how it works. Affecting targets across light-years via telekinesis is a lot different from mind controlling targets across light-years, because the latter would universally be agreed upon as a superior showing. There is no cross-comparison between different areas of the Force.

Nephthys
Originally posted by SunRazer
Aside from the fact that Vitiate hasn't replicated Abeloth's showings in other areas, this isn't how it works. Affecting targets across light-years via telekinesis is a lot different from mind controlling targets across light-years, because the latter would universally be agreed upon as a superior showing. There is no cross-comparison between different areas of the Force.

Kaan was mind-controlling thousands of Sith across the galaxy.....

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Funnily enough its stated to be outside of Grand Master Luke's abilities, and they decide that only Abeloth would capable of such power. So naw.

You assume Luke is comparable to Valkorion. He's transcended any mortal limits. excellent

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by SunRazer
Aside from the fact that Vitiate hasn't replicated Abeloth's showings in other areas, this isn't how it works.
Really?

Compare both in the areas of Essence Transfer, Flow-Walking, Force Deflection, Teleportation, Force Lightning, Telepathy, Alter Environment, Force Illusion, and Force Drain powers.

You are absolutely wrong, my friend. smile

Originally posted by SunRazer
Affecting targets across light-years via telekinesis is a lot different from mind controlling targets across light-years, because the latter would universally be agreed upon as a superior showing. There is no cross-comparison between different areas of the Force.
Valkorion affected targets across light-years via telepathic abilities and Force Drain powers as far as I am aware.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by Nephthys
You assume Luke is comparable to Valkorion. He's transcended any mortal limits. excellent I'd say he's been thoroughly transcended by Luke's new beard. smile

Nephthys
Suggesting Luke's beard is even in the same solar system of quality compared to Valkorion's majestic facial hair, is despicable. crackers

The_Tempest
Lmao. Pretty sure Dooku's beardsword is still supreme. Get back to me when either Valkorion or Luke can maim an infidel with their chin scruff.

Beniboybling
Lel.

https://i.imgur.com/ibVNtNj.png

Valky and Dooku would bend the knee before the presence of this beard. smile

The_Tempest
No doubt that Luke looks positively fabulous, but Dooku's beard ensures that he's never truly disarmed. In many ways, the good Count is a vaguely more sinister iteration of the Dos Equis man.

Nephthys
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111250671/4868744-emperor2.jpg

Please, anyone saying they wouldn't rocking chair this is a ****ing liar or degenerate.

The_Tempest
Puh-lease. That Mr. Monopoly-looking motherfvcker can GTFO.

http://images.forbes.com/media/2012/04/18/mr-monopoly_197x282.jpg

Only hipsters and other breeds of douche allow their stashes to curl.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No doubt that Luke looks positively fabulous, but Dooku's beard ensures that he's never truly disarmed. In many ways, the good Count is a vaguely more sinister iteration of the Dos Equis man. Dooku's beardsword is indeed powerful, but comparatively lacking in sharpness in his live action appearances. I'd say Luke takes the majority.

Beniboybling
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Puh-lease. That Mr. Monopoly-looking motherfvcker can GTFO.

http://images.forbes.com/media/2012/04/18/mr-monopoly_197x282.jpg

Only hipsters and other breeds of douche allow their stashes to curl. thumb up

Beniboybling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Force Storm (Wormhole) cannot obliterate an entire planet in the manner you presume. It can wreck the surface or crust at maximum.

Moreover, Palpatine had limitation in the aspect of conjuring and controlling the Force Storm (Wormhole) power. Luke's claim that it can kill worlds, Palpy almost doing to do Da Soocha, and obliterating a capital ship logically able to tank planetary core fracturing impacts, suggests otherwise.

Nephthys
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Puh-lease. That Mr. Monopoly-looking motherfvcker can GTFO.

http://images.forbes.com/media/2012/04/18/mr-monopoly_197x282.jpg

Only hipsters and other breeds of douche allow their stashes to curl.

It's called class, you arse.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Luke's claim that it can kill worlds, Palpy almost doing to do Da Soocha, and obliterating a capital ship logically able to tank planetary core fracturing impacts, suggests otherwise.

You know, it never ceases to amaze how experts are mysteriously unreliable AF when it comes to attesting Sheev's power, but every Tom, Dick & Harry who remotely endorses Valkoriate has a PhD in Force Studies and Valkoriology.

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/kermit-meme.jpg

FreshestSlice
Takes some real loyalty to defend a pedophile as must as you do, Tempest.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Takes some real loyalty to defend a pedophile as must as you do, Tempest.

His Imperial Majesty should be celebrated for providing wayward minors guidance and purpose.

Nephthys
I hate it when people name their equipment like that.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I hate it when people name their equipment like that.

Oh, I'm sure it rolls nicely off the tongue, if you catch my drift.

Nephthys
It's just a bit of a mouthful, is all.

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