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Scenario 1: Jessica has to face off against the bikers Matt did in episode 3. She starts at the lift where he dropped off Frank, and has to work her way down to the bottom, like he did.

Scenario 2: She has to take on the group of prison thugs Frank fought in episode 9. She also starts where Frank did, and have them come at her.

Jessica is 100% fit and rested before the start of each round. Also, PIS is off.

She can't fight.

Still, barring PIS, she is strong enough to one-shot most people, and intelligent enough to utilize her surroundings when she gets into serious trouble, like she did against Luke.

She should be able to one shot everyone one hit at a time.

Also keep in mind that neither Matt or Frank were even in the best of shape when they were in those scenarios.

Not saying she could clear. I am unsure of it myself, hence the thread. But I think that she could at least make a good fight of it, seeing as PIS is off here.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Still, barring PIS, she is strong enough to one-shot most people, and intelligent enough to utilize her surroundings when she gets into serious trouble, like she did against Luke. She still won't win.

She'll get shanked or bludgeoned to death.

Did she not kinda over power Luke in an episode?

Not really. She kinda did when they were in bed, but that is hardly the most convincing showing. She was unable to hold him back when he was really pissed during the one episode, and their strength seemed to be pretty equal during the last fight, with it going back and forth a lot. Luke's unbreakable skin tipped the balance though, which is why Jessica ended up having to flee and shoot him.

Yeah her durability from the hits she took from him in that last fight was pretty good just watched on Youtube.

If the thugs didn't have weapons I'd give her the win. But with knives, shanks, guns and a hammer she ain't getting out of those fights without serious injury.

Luke punched or threw her 20 feet and she was able to get up and keep fighting him.

Originally posted by golem370
Luke punched or threw her 20 feet and she was able to get up and keep fighting him.

Doesn't matter. She seems to get cut up as easily as a normal human and she doesn't have the skill to avoid all the knives coming at her. She gets stabbed multiple times.

Originally posted by Mindset
She can't fight.

Sexist pig

She showed a little skill Luke Cage taking him to the ground a couple times.

Originally posted by golem370
She showed a little skill Luke Cage taking him to the ground a couple times.

Luke Cage was another brawler with no shown skill.

I think Jessica might fare a bit better in Scenario 1 if the bikers come at her on at a time but she's in trouble in the prison scene due to the enclosed space and the weapons of the prisoners.

If she is serious she could toss one inmate into the others doing damage.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
I think Jessica might fare a bit better in Scenario 1 if the bikers come at her on at a time but she's in trouble in the prison scene due to the enclosed space and the weapons of the prisoners.

The bikers tried their best to gang up on Matt multiple times, and they were packing weapons ranging from sidearms to baseball bats to knives as well. And Jessica is facing both scenarios just like Matt and Frank did.

After further consideration, I think she could probably take a lot of the blunt force trauma, even from the melee weapons. But the others are right. She has no real proper fighting skill, and no XP with anti-weapon fighting (unlike Matt or Frank), so she is likely going to end up getting shot and stabbed multiple times, which will be her end. But I still think she can take out a good number of thugs on either side before going down.

And of course, I would never put Luke in this gauntlet. None of them packed anything that had the same amount of punch as a point-blank shotgun blast to the chin, so he could casually stroll through both scenarios and one-shot guys, even if he is a crappy fighter.

On a side note, did JJ ever one-shot somebody who was actively trying to fight her?

She did. But every person she ever one-shotted was some random goon or thug. She's never one-shotted anyone who actually has any decent durability showings. So I am not actually convinced that she could one-shot someone like Frank or Matt, assuming she can even manage to land a solid blow on two people who are way faster and more skilled than she is. I mean one fractured rib was enough to tip the balance in Simpson's favour in his last fight with her.

Edit: But I think she should be able to one/two-shot most of these guys, if she can hit them. But I went back to a lot of her fights, and she tends to get swarmed a lot. And if the guys have sharp weapons when they swarm her, she is going to get stabbed repeatedly.

She has the strength to one shot Frank or Matt if she wanted.

I have my doubts. Matt and Frank are way more durable than the average street thug. Jessica has never one-shotted anyone who can tank the kind of damage Daredevil or Punisher can. And that is assuming she could even tag them properly. Matt's speed/reaction feats >>>>> anything Jessica has done, especially in season 2. And Frank had comparable combat speed to Matt.

They maybe faster but she imo doesn't show what she can do physically against normal people just my opinion.

It's no maybe. A guy who can catch an arrow fired at the back of his head is way faster than someone who can't avoid a 100lbs girl wielding a 2x4.

And regardless of personal opinions, the fact is that she has no screen feats that prove she can one-shot people with Frank/Matt's durability level.

But that is irrelevant to this match in anyways. She isn't fighting Matt or Frank here.

JJ has trouble with even above average goons, like those security personnel who took her out.

Cages punches were strong enough to crush concrete and she took some. She also punches hard enough to hurt Cage. I mean, she ripped a car door right off its hinges and she's not strong enough to one shot normal people? Come on. Matt and Frank take a lot of damage for being human, but they arent superhuman durable.

She's not as good a fighter as Matt and Frank and shes not bulletproof and can be punctured, but theres really no reason why she couldnt just grab a guy by his leg and use him as a battering ram to clear some of these scenarios.

The evidence that she can one-shot people on Matt/Frank's level is when she killed Luke's wife. She didn't even punch her all that hard, but she was dead on impact and went flying. Neither of those guys would've survived that hit either. So it's obvious since she's always fighting regular people that can holds back a lot. If she didn't hold back and hit them with decent punches, if they weren't ko'd they'd be too hurt to move.

Thing is though, while they are not stated to explicitly be superhuman, some of the damage/hits they take is way more than any normal human should be able to and keep going.

Just to name one example, how many regular humans can take a 20 foot drop off a water tower, bounce spine first off the edge of a metal roof, drop another dozen or so feet, and then just get back up and keep fighting. And Matt has a few similarly ridiculous feats of soaking up damage.

I've never argued that Jessica won't one-shot normal people. Hell, I state it in my second post.

I mean I did create this thread because I felt there was at least some argument for Jessica actually making it through the scenarios. If I thought she was totally useless and had no shot, I wouldn't have bothered.

I just have some doubts now about how she is going to handle the more pointy weapons. Not too worried about the bats and things. She should be able to soak up the blunt force trauma without too much hassle IMO, seeing as PIS is off.

I actually brought up the fractured rib earlier specifically to show that while she is tough (she did sustain it getting hit by a truck after all), when she does get hurt, it tends to affect her overall ability quite noticeably. So if she does end up getting stabbed or shot, her odds are rapidly going to deteriorate.

But just to be clear, while I don't think she could oneshot Matt or Frank (at least based on current evidence, we will likely get a better idea once Defenders is underway), I don't think they can KO her in H2H at all, barring PIS. Neither of those two hit anywhere near as hard as Luke does, and she was taking even his blows quite well. And even if they get her into some kind of submission, she should be able to muscle her way out of it, given that the strength gap is significant.

With PIS off, I really don't see that happening. The reason being as I said, she's not holding back.

In the show it's obvious she's not trying to cause permanent injury, and it effects her fights. The reason getting swarmed usually works against her is because usually she's giving people love taps compared to how hard she could really hit. She's slugging it out with Goon #1, Goon #2 sneaks up and whacks her in the head.

In this scenario, that shouldn't happen, because she'll punch Goon #1 hard enough that he's immediately out of commission.

That'd solve the melee problem at least imo. She has no defense against getting shot...except maybe her flight/super leaps.


And you don't think if she hit them around the level of the punches she threw against Cage or the Kill punch she gave to his wife would put Matt or Frank down?

I never said she can't put them down. But the fact is that we have seen Frank and Matt keep going even with broken bones, concussions, stab/gunshot wounds etc. Remember, Matt also does use that weirdo pseudo-meditation nonsense to amp his damage soak/healing, and Frank wouldn't even die after he got shot in the head, and it took a sedative and multiple tazers to bring him to his knees. So it's not a case of her not hurting them. It's a case of them being able to go on despite grievous amounts of damage. But I don't think they could stand up to a lot of blows from her.

And I do want to clear one thing up. I consider Jessica getting repeatedly put down by the guys with tazers, and the KO with the 2x4 as PIS, considering they were both directly tied to Kilgrave escaping from her, and inconsistent with most of her other showings. The first time the guys held her up long enough for Kilgrave to make a run for it. The KO was when she had Kilgrave in her apartment, and then got KO'd so that the dumb ginger girl and the others could release him. So those two showings I would take with a pinch of salt.

Originally posted by KingD19
The evidence that she can one-shot people on Matt/Frank's level is when she killed Luke's wife. She didn't even punch her all that hard, but she was dead on impact and went flying. Neither of those guys would've survived that hit either. So it's obvious since she's always fighting regular people that can holds back a lot. If she didn't hold back and hit them with decent punches, if they weren't ko'd they'd be too hurt to move.

There's a big difference between hitting an unsuspecting woman who's standing still and taking the full hit on the chest... and trying to punch someone actively moving and expecting the hit.

Even if JJ hits DD in the exact same spot she hit the woman but DD was in motion, it wouldn't have the same kind of impact.

One shotting someone who is not moving and completely unaware is pretty easy, even for normal humans. KO I mean, not to kill. But one shotting someone who is on the move and fighting back is completely different.

That's not the point that she was standing still. It was that Jessica was unhindered and trying to hurt/kill her. Normally when she fights, she realizes the people she's fighting are doing their job or under Killgrave's control so she holds back. But we can see just how hard she can hit, which is a whole lot harder than any blunt force impact these guys have gone up against. A cock back, followed by a jab was enough to send Luke's wife flying and kill her instantly. Imagine if she threw a hard as f*ck haymaker at Frank's ribs. Even if he blocked it, his arms would be shattered.

Without PIS protecting the people she fights, Jessica would be hitting guys and sending them flying like Cap if she felt like it.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's not the point that she was standing still. It was that Jessica was unhindered and trying to hurt/kill her. Normally when she fights, she realizes the people she's fighting are doing their job or under Killgrave's control so she holds back. But we can see just how hard she can hit, which is a whole lot harder than any blunt force impact these guys have gone up against. A cock back, followed by a jab was enough to send Luke's wife flying and kill her instantly. Imagine if she threw a hard as f*ck haymaker at Frank's ribs. Even if he blocked it, his arms would be shattered.

Without PIS protecting the people she fights, Jessica would be hitting guys and sending them flying like Cap if she felt like it.

The average middle to heavyweight pro boxer or even a legit black belter have enough power to kill someone with a direct and unhindered punch to a person's chest - given proper placement of hit. That doesn't mean that all their hits are automatically bone crunching, life-threating, knock out guarantees.

Fact is, the only person JJ ever killed with one shot is a non-combative woman who was taken by surprise and didn't put up a fight.

Let's not pretend that:

1. A woman has the same durability as a man
2. A non-combative woman has the same durability as trained fighters like Matt and Frank
3. A hit to an unsuspecting victim will have the same effect as a hit to an actively fighting combatant
4. A hit directly to the chest is the same as a hit to the side of the torso


JJ is definitely strong enough to kill Matt or Frank with a single hit. I just don't think she'll be able to perform that hit in the context of a fight.

She sent the cop flying 10 feet with a punch

Originally posted by golem370
She sent the cop flying 10 feet with a punch

And he didn't die right?

Was she trying to kill him?

Originally posted by golem370
Was she trying to kill him?

No, but that still means the only person she did kill was a defenseless woman. Did the policeman at least get knocked out?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T96vjUlr06Q
Jess does have some skills though

Anybody who can stop a car from driving off by easily lifting the back end off the ground should be able to kill someone with a punch not to mention snap a lock off a door or punching a 200lbs man 10 feet. Here is another decent feat the guy in the Aston Martin drove off and she was standing across the street but when he stops she is right there.

Originally posted by golem370
Anybody who can stop a car from driving off by easily lifting the back end off the ground should be able to kill someone with a punch not to mention snap a lock off a door or punching a 200lbs man 10 feet. Here is another decent feat the guy in the Aston Martin drove off and she was standing across the street but when he stops she is right there.

Which is why, again, I'm asking if she's ever killed, or even KO'd someone with one-shot - someone who was actively fighting her? At least we can support it with feats. This is not me challenging you, I'm legitimately curious to see if she has feats.

I said should not did knock out someone.

Anyway, the thugs in this thread are not Matt or Frank, and do not actually have any of their damage soak/durability showings. So we stack up how Jessica's hits would do against them here, not the other two.