Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

A former member DarthAnt66 made a wonderful respect thread of Soa: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/soa-respect-thread-1712494/

Soa apparently rivals the likes of Yoda and Luke Skywalker in the domain of Telekinesis. Soa is also a master of esoteric powers such as Mind Trap, Teleportation and Floating Meditation. Perhaps more.

Soa's most dangerous Force power and/or talent seems to be Mind Trap; Soa can use this technique to trap the essence of an opponent in a psychic prison for like eternity, rendering the body of the opponent motionless. It's like a one-shot ability.

Mind Trap might be the reason why Soa became a formidable threat to the galaxy at large. This would explain why it was so difficult to imprison him in the first place.

Your thoughts?

Ant's still a member, he's just on a vacation. A long vacation.

Soa should be up there with the highest Force Users, yeah. That the Rakata needed everything to beat him and still couldn't kill him, that he makes the Republic-Empire conflict irrelevant, that he was considered a threat greater than the Republic and is stated to be able to spell "certain doom" for the galaxy if he escaped... all suggest he's a being of almost godlike power.

Soa doesn't rival Luke in TK at all...

Originally posted by SunRazer
Soa doesn't rival Luke in TK at all...
Enlighten me.

Ugh...TOR....I like the game well enough, but the power of their characters vary so wild. Soa has all this supposed power, yet an army(not armies as suggested, but the quote says it took an army) were able to overpower and lock him away?

Soa isn't the only one either, the Dread Masters were captured by a Republic Commando Force and 1 lone Jedi, yet they had all this great power both collectively and individually.

Yeah. First the Dread Masters are captured by one squad and one Jedi Master.

Then they occupy an entire planet and full squad of Sith forces and full squad of Jedi forces can't do sh*t about them lol.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ugh...TOR....I like the game well enough, but the power of their characters vary so wild. Soa has all this supposed power, yet an army(not armies as suggested, but the quote says it took an army) were able to overpower and lock him away?

Soa isn't the only one either, the Dread Masters were captured by a Republic Commando Force and 1 lone Jedi, yet they had all this great power both collectively and individually.
Not only that, eight people come in and kill him, and as for the Dread Masters, they share all their power. Fighting one of them is like fighting all of them.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not only that, eight people come in and kill him, and as for the Dread Masters, they share all their power. Fighting one of them is like fighting all of them.

Ya know it just occurred to me, that the army that overpowered Soa would be vastly inferior to any later army in the SW timeline, given that Soa was locked away even before the events of TOR.

Nah, Infinite Empire tech is probably some of the best in SW.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Nah, Infinite Empire tech is probably some of the best in SW.

Which is all fine and dandy, but I wasn't speaking about tech. There are other things to note for an army, other than tech.

The point being here, Soa has all that supposed power yet gets overtaken by an army.

That army was helmed by the entire, galaxy-spanning, Infinite Empire.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Nah, Infinite Empire tech is probably some of the best in SW.
It was also all powered by Force Sensitivity, which the Rakata were starting to lose, I believe.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That army was the entire, galaxy-spanning, Infinite Empire.

It was also all powered by Force Sensitivity, which the Rakata were starting to lose, I believe.

Was it noted as being the entire IE? Because all I'm seeing is that it took an army, then LATER it took the Rataka and the other ancients to imprison, which imply that it wasn't the whole IE.

So I guess sure, to subdue and imprison him took all of the IE. But just to subdue took an army.

Plus then later, this guy gets beaten by a much smaller group?

Granted that they are the galaxy's greatest heroes, but this just points to Soa= Galaxy level being, as nothing more than hype.

I need to go to bed now though, tired.

Isn't Mind Trap tech and not a force power?

Originally posted by ares834
Isn't Mind Trap tech and not a force power?

Was force powered tech, half an half. So not a true Force power yeah, but the tech was powered by the Force.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Ugh...TOR....I like the game well enough, but the power of their characters vary so wild. Soa has all this supposed power, yet an army(not armies as suggested, but the quote says it took an army) were able to overpower and lock him away?

An army of Rakata. Rakata are pretty ****ing nuts, as pointed out in the Respect Thread:

"The Rakata civilization was powerful beyond measure; the threats they sought to contain in this prison transcended anything the Republic is currently prepared to face."

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Plus then later, this guy gets beaten by a much smaller group?

Granted that they are the galaxy's greatest heroes, but this just points to Soa= Galaxy level being, as nothing more than hype.

I need to go to bed now though, tired.

All that proves is that the TOR protags are the ****ing best. Lot'ek was also said to be a galaxy-level threat and they beat him as well.

Yeah Neph, the Rakata have great feats of creating things sure, but their war capabilities? Those never really seemed great, other than the Starforge(which again is just a great big factory). Their ships were just flying blocks with one laser cannon.

So I'm questioning how they managed to even subdue Soa if his power is that great, I don't see why an army would pose any threat to him if the galaxy at the time wasn't all that technologically advanced except for the Rakata.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Soa apparently rivals the likes of Yoda and Luke Skywalker in the domain of Telekinesis.

Originally posted by The Ellimist

Soa not just lifts several objects equivalent to the Muntuur Stones in weight (possibly greater) but also throws them around as if they are nothing.

You're letting facts get in the way of the PT/OT wank

TOR wank has a more disturbing history of obstructing facts. It's like politics. Neither side is clean (yes, that does mean the PT party as well), but most are really only going to try and expose the corruption of the opposite party.

I don't think TOR wank obstructs facts nearly as much as the PT/OT wank but that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Soa not just lifts several objects equivalent to the Muntuur Stones in weight (possibly greater) but also throws them around as if they are nothing.

Yoda TK's droid transport ships and Luke moves black holes.

Yeah the recorded weight of the Muuntur stones is off by a mile.

Lets keep the politics outside of respect threads.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Yoda TK's droid transport ships and Luke moves black holes.
Yoda did not lift them, he moved them into each other.

Luke Skywalker never influenced a cosmic black hole. It was an artificial Vong manifestation. And it is not a feat without equal.

Soa lifted and tossed 30 foot statues around as if they were nothing. Want to discuss weight of statues that large? Realistically, they should put Muntuur stones to shame.

Friend Vader lifted a 74 foot AT-AT weighing likely thousands of tonnes - they put the Munturr stones to shame, as Yoda would to Vader.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Friend Vader lifted a 74 foot AT-AT weighing likely thousands of tonnes - they put the Munturr stones to shame, as Yoda would to Vader.
AT-AT can never be that heavy. It is a machine, not a solid mass like a stone.

LOL

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
AT-AT can never be that heavy. It is a machine, not a solid mass like a stone. https://media.giphy.com/media/kioZpjoUyj9EA/giphy.gif

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
AT-AT can never be that heavy. It is a machine, not a solid mass like a stone.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda did not lift them, he moved them into each other.


The force needed to do that is still far superior to tossing around stone statues, lol.

Those are like several hundred meter long vessels that have engines of their own, and Yoda easily accelerates a dozen meters/s^2 at the least, which makes it more impressive than the minimum needed to lift one. And they're easily significantly more than hundreds of thousands of times heavier than those stone statues.



They were massive enough to pull in missiles and turbolasers. A singularity the size of those 30 foot tall statues wouldn't even be noticed by anyone, lol.



30 foot tall statues?

Kyp Durron has ragdolled freighters, Luke has destroyed and rebuilt Vader's fortress, Yoda has lifted hundreds of droidekas at the same time, - do you seriously think tossing around 30 foot statues is particularly impressive?

Soa's apparently godlike Force barrier was broken by a drill falling on him. Galen Marek, in comparison, shielded an entire cruiser from atmospheric reentry. Luke has cloaked 1800 meter long capital ships with the Force, Sidious has wrecked super star destroyers - in what universe did you think this makes Soa impressive?

Why do you ****ers keep treating Ops mechanics as actual showings?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why do you ****ers keep treating Ops mechanics as actual showings?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbR2JZmlWo

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why do you ****ers keep treating Ops mechanics as actual showings?

Originally posted by Trocity
LOL

Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://media.giphy.com/media/kioZpjoUyj9EA/giphy.gif

Originally posted by The Ellimist


Look at the size of AT-AT:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/tubachris85x/AT-ATSCALE.jpg

You guys seriously think it would weigh thousands of tonnes?

You guys really suck at estimating the size of objects.

---

This behemoth, if built, would have weighed 1000 tons:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/TacFireGuru/My%20Models/Landkreuzer%20P-1000%20Ratte/3117273915_2_3_qJPRlYRZ_zps0904aa37.jpg

Landkreuzer P-1000 Ratte is a relatively much larger vehicle than AT-AT Walker.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
https://media.giphy.com/media/kioZpjoUyj9EA/giphy.gif Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
AT-AT Landkreuzer can never be that heavy. It is a machine, not a solid mass like a stone.

Anyway, an 11x35m tank is not "much larger" than a 30x20m (going off the movies) AT-AT.

Which only lends credence to the latter being thousands of tonnes.

Legend don't use his thinker dat much.

Originally posted by Trocity


Legend don't use his thinker dat much.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/33f7c21a61e18c4922648f84e3066835/tumblr_inline_ntsz5vC8x71rkf4dx_500.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling


Anyway, an 11x35m tank is not "much larger" than a 30x20m (going off the movies) AT-AT.

Which only lends credence to the latter being thousands of tonnes.
My friend, you are an idiot.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=293

It is not just about height and length. AT-AT is an entirely different design than the behemoth that I used as a reference.

P.1000 dimensions:

Length: 35m
Width: 14m
Height: 11m

AT-AT dimensions:

Length: 20m
Width: 4m
Height: 22.5m

Have a good look:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/80/84/06/808406427c9d64f17602923a19085887.jpg

P.1000 is a far more heavily built vehicle design in comparison.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/TacFireGuru/My%20Models/Landkreuzer%20P-1000%20Ratte/3117273915_2_3_qJPRlYRZ_zps0904aa37.jpg

Originally posted by Trocity


Legend don't use his thinker dat much.


Sorry, you don't use your brain much.

That tank couldn't have weighed that much, it's a machine, not a solid mass like a stone.

See...this is why having mass defined for vehicles in SW would be a good thing...for issues like this.

I mean, even rough math shows that an AT-AT would weigh roughly 200 tonnes. One of the Rakatan statues however would weigh roughly 25 tonnes (Less than the stones Dooku lifted, LeGenD) so even if Beni was beyond mentally retarded in saying an AT-AT weighs 1000's of tonnes, his point still stands.

LOL@Stones weighing more than machines.

A stone would weigh more than a machine of equivalent size tbh. Depending on the type of stone.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A stone would weigh more than a machine of equivalent size tbh. Depending on the type of stone.
Density of Steel is three times the density of granite. If we're talking a Machine that's not meant to fit a human (or is large enough that it doesn't matter) it'll be heavier.

Shush, that uses atoms and science and shit, and ain't nobody got time for that when we could just use our opinions.

I still can't believe LeGeNd seriously thinks Soa tossing some statues is more impressive than Yoda tossing droid transport ships.

Originally posted by Selenial
I mean, even rough math shows that an AT-AT would weigh roughly 200 tonnes. One of the Rakatan statues however would weigh roughly 25 tonnes (Less than the stones Dooku lifted, LeGenD) so even if Beni was beyond mentally retarded in saying an AT-AT weighs 1000's of tonnes, his point still stands.
Your estimate AT-AT seems to be reasonable.

As for the statues, I will see what I can find. But they are really heavy in real-life.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend, you are an idiot.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=293

It is not just about height and length. AT-AT is an entirely different design than the behemoth that I used as a reference.

P.1000 dimensions:

Length: 35m
Width: 14m
Height: 11m

AT-AT dimensions:

Length: 20m
Width: 4m
Height: 22.5m

Have a good look:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/80/84/06/808406427c9d64f17602923a19085887.jpg

P.1000 is a far more heavily built vehicle design in comparison.


Oh, hello. May I interrupt your self-demolition before somebody gets hurt?

First: You may want to do your research. The Panzer VII "Maus", the largest Tank ever constructed with its 3x3x10 meters, had a weight of 188 tons. If you compare that to the AT-AT, then the part of the walker above its legs could easily weigh around 600 tons. Add the legs, and you are pretty much guaranteed to hit the 1,000 ton mark.

In fact the people over at Stardestroyer.net came up with much higher results, which means I'm probably giving you a conservative estimate here.

And, mind you, this is steel we're talking about. Not some space-age material that, apparently, easily shrugs off heavy laser fire that is pretty much capable of leveling buildings. Which could be even heavier than that.

You would need pretty big and massive stone statues to match that...

Originally posted by Nai
Oh, hello. May I interrupt your self-demolition before somebody gets hurt?

First: You may want to do your research. The Panzer VII "Maus", the largest Tank ever constructed with its 3x3x10 meters, had a weight of 188 tons. If you compare that to the AT-AT, then the part of the walker above its legs could easily weigh around 600 tons. Add the legs, and you are pretty much guaranteed to hit the 1,000 ton mark.

Lmao this is what I get for assuming LeGenD's original numbers were actually accurate.

I'm finding it difficult to actually see how anyone puts a number on it though. The AT-AT's top half would weigh over 4000 tonnes if it was steel the entire way through, but it's pretty ****ing difficult to tell just how hollow the thing actually is. I mean, it's supposed to be able to carry 40 passengers after all, along with a minimum of five speeder bikes.

Let's just agree that its heavier than the ****ing Muntuur stones.

I think Soa is badass and pretty powerful, but he's certainly done nothing to suggest he's on Luke, Yoda or Sidious's level.

Other than apparently taking the entirety of the infinite empire to enslave him?

Infinite Empire LOLtier confirmed

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Infinite Empire LOLtier confirmed

Yeah, they had like 300 planets.

And it's sort of vague as to *how* Soa "fought" the Rataka. Did he have followers? An army? Resources? Like, why wouldn't he? You could just as easily argue that it took the combined resources of the Old Republic to take down Vitiate, or the entire Rebel Alliance/New Republic to take down Palpatine/reborn Palpatine.

As far as I understand, Soa's followers are limited to those you fight in the Ops. Also, Lol@yoda having a shot vs. a giant Rakata

lol @ basically everything you say tbh.

Originally posted by Trocity
lol @ basically everything you say tbh.

http://web.ftc-i.net/~rkanderson/images/amwa/bantrolls.gif

Thanks for the taking the time to go and look up that image.

Unless you have it saved on your computer, which is even more sad.

Could you two please stop killing this thread?

It's not even an interesting bloodshed ;_;

Trocity is a master of looking dumb each time he posts. Probably needs to stop trolling so he gains modicum of credibility

I don't care, neither of you provides funtime

Originally posted by MS Warehouse
Trocity is a master of looking dumb each time he posts. Probably needs to stop trolling so he gains modicum of credibility

Ironic.

Originally posted by Trocity
Ironic.

Hey look, another guy who doesn't understand what ironic means

Originally posted by Trocity
Ironic.

0/10

Originally posted by Nai
Oh, hello. May I interrupt your self-demolition before somebody gets hurt?

First: You may want to do your research. The Panzer VII "Maus", the largest Tank ever constructed with its 3x3x10 meters, had a weight of 188 tons. If you compare that to the AT-AT, then the part of the walker above its legs could easily weigh around 600 tons. Add the legs, and you are pretty much guaranteed to hit the 1,000 ton mark.

In fact the people over at Stardestroyer.net came up with much higher results, which means I'm probably giving you a conservative estimate here.

And, mind you, this is steel we're talking about. Not some space-age material that, apparently, easily shrugs off heavy laser fire that is pretty much capable of leveling buildings. Which could be even heavier than that.

You would need pretty big and massive stone statues to match that...
Those estimates are way off and unrealistic for a vehicle of that design.

My assessment is grounded in statistics of P.1000 Ratte, which dwarfs Panzer VII Maus in size (at-least in the drawings).

Have a good look:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e193/TacFireGuru/My%20Models/Landkreuzer%20P-1000%20Ratte/3117273915_2_3_qJPRlYRZ_zps0904aa37.jpg

Futuristic technologies are supposed to reduce weight and make vehicles more efficient. For example, M1A3 Abrams MBT would have superior armor and protective measures then M1A2 Abrams MBT but would be relatively lighter as well. This is based on actual data, not an assumption.

P.1000 and AT-AT scaled for comparison:

http://i63.tinypic.com/2m8390x.png

Originally posted by Selenial
Lmao this is what I get for assuming LeGenD's original numbers were actually accurate.

I'm finding it difficult to actually see how anyone puts a number on it though. The AT-AT's top half would weigh over 4000 tonnes if it was steel the entire way through, but it's pretty ****ing difficult to tell just how hollow the thing actually is. I mean, it's supposed to be able to carry 40 passengers after all, along with a minimum of five speeder bikes.

It could also be configured to carry 2 deconstructed AT-STs. But here's the interior.

http://threads.rebelscum.com/photogallery/data//500/0010.JPG

Originally posted by Selenial
Lmao this is what I get for assuming LeGenD's original numbers were actually accurate.

I'm finding it difficult to actually see how anyone puts a number on it though. The AT-AT's top half would weigh over 4000 tonnes if it was steel the entire way through, but it's pretty ****ing difficult to tell just how hollow the thing actually is. I mean, it's supposed to be able to carry 40 passengers after all, along with a minimum of five speeder bikes.
They forgot to consider P.1000 in their assessments.

Doesn't takes a genius to blow their argument out of water, just common sense and a bit more extensive research.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2m8390x.png

P.1000 is a considerably larger design then an AT-AT. More importantly, P.1000 is officially estimated to have weighed 1000 tons.

---

AT-AT cargo capacity is officially 1 metric ton.

Legend those images are not to scale

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Legend those images are not to scale
Art and estimations are not your forte. I have scaled P.1000 and AT-AT in accordance with their reported/known dimensions:

P.1000 dimensions:

Length: 35m
Width: 14m
Height: 11m

AT-AT dimensions:

Length: 20m
Width: 4m (Top) / 5m (Bottom)
Height: 22.5m

Too bad for you: P.1000 >> AT-AT in size and your estimation of AT-AT is way off. You should laugh at your own stupidity.

Friend, the AT-AT is more accurately 30m tall (and given that, likely 30m in length) evidenced from how it appears on screen and how ridiculous your diagrams look.

Regardless who cares? You are no closer to proving that an AT-AT isn't heavier than some 9 meter statues and a bunch of stones weighing 5-7 tonnes each.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Friend, the AT-AT is more accurately 30m tall (and given that, likely 30m in length) evidenced from how it appears on screen and how ridiculous your diagrams look.
My friend, I have checked the official specifications of AT-AT before scaling it.

Here: http://www.starwars.com/news/acme-archives-directs-at-at-specplate-now-available-exclusive-preview

Full image here: http://i64.tinypic.com/16h4t28.jpg

I have scaled the two diagrams in accordance with their specs. And these diagrams are professional works, not mine.

I accept your concession in advance.

The size of an AT-AT is 15 meters wide, 20 meters tall according to the New Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels, The Essential Guide to Vehicles and Fact File 3. There we go.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My friend, I have checked the official specifications of AT-AT before scaling it.

Here: http://www.starwars.com/news/acme-archives-directs-at-at-specplate-now-available-exclusive-preview

Full image here: http://i64.tinypic.com/16h4t28.jpg

I have scaled the two diagrams in accordance with their specs. And these diagrams are professional works, not mine.

I accept your concession in advance. Uh I did? And I'm saying that a more accurate height/length is around 30m, going off again how large they appear in the movies and how ridiculous your diagram looks.

Funnily enough, official material can and has been inaccurate in this regard.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Regardless who cares? You are no closer to proving that an AT-AT isn't heavier than some 9 meter statues and a bunch of stones weighing 5-7 tonnes each.
A statue may vary in weight in accordance with the materials used to create it.

We don't know the material of the statues that Soa lifted and tossed around but they were really large and must have weighed lot more then 5 - 7 tonnes each.

Have a look at the statues in the chamber of The Infernal One:

http://swtorbrasil.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/swtor-eternity-vault-soa-the-infernal-one.jpg

They are like 30 feet tall each. And made of some kind of stone. I expect them to be around 50 tons in weight each.

For reference, 10 m tall Moai statue named Paro weighs 82 tons.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Uh I did? And I'm saying that a more accurate height/length is around 30m, going off again how large they appear in the movies and how ridiculous your diagram looks.

Funnily enough, official material can and has been inaccurate in this regard.
Looks can be deceiving. You sound like those 19th century whalers who would overestimate the size of the whales they typically caught or came across.

Official specifications of AT-AT have been conveyed to you. Member Zenwolf have provided even more conservative sizes figures.

By the Empire's time, however, large "walkers" dominated ground combat - above all. Standing 22.5 meters high, the long-striding All Terrain Armored Transport - known as AT-AT or simply walker - loomed over the battlefields of the Galactic Civil War like a huge armored version of pachyderm cavalry.

Taken from Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare

The officially known dimensions of AT-AT are following:-

Height = 22.5 m
Length = 20 m

facepalm We know what the official sources say. They take lower precedence than the films, which make it pretty clear that the AT-AT's are not 22.5 meters tall.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
facepalm We know what the official sources say. They take lower precedence than the films, which make it pretty clear that the AT-AT's are not 22.5 meters tall.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A statue may vary in weight in accordance with the materials used to create it.

We don't know the material of the statues that Soa lifted and tossed around but they were really large and must have weighed lot more then 5 - 7 tonnes each.

Have a look at the statues in the chamber of The Infernal One:

http://swtorbrasil.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/swtor-eternity-vault-soa-the-infernal-one.jpg

They are like 30 feet tall each. And made of some kind of stone. I expect them to be around 50 tons in weight each.

For reference, 10 m tall Moai statue named Paro weighs 82 tons. Cool, let's go with 50 then shall we? Noting of course that Soa only breaks off and levitates less than half of each:

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11114/111140132/4793606-1134748866-47922.gif

So we're dealing with what, 20 tonnes each? That's 80 tonnes altogether. Heavier than the Muntuur stones? Sure. Heavier than an AT-AT? Don't be absurd. Even if we assumed that AT-AT was dwarfed by the 1000 tonne tank you provided, said tank would have to be over 12 times its mass for such an assessment to work. Which is again absurd.

Indeed even if we were to assume an AT-AT was half its mass (despite being larger ), Vader would still be lifting 6 times the mass Soa did.

So Vader is lifting the heavier object here, a much heavier object; Yoda >> Vader, ergo, this feat does not put Soa in Yoda's league, like remotely. Case closed.

EDIT: Corrected the maths, don't worry, Yoda's still better.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Looks can be deceiving. You sound like those 19th century whalers who would overestimate the size of the whales they typically caught or came across.

Official specifications of AT-AT have been conveyed to you. Member Zenwolf have provided even more conservative sizes figures.

By the Empire's time, however, large "walkers" dominated ground combat - above all. Standing 22.5 meters high, the long-striding All Terrain Armored Transport - known as AT-AT or simply walker - loomed over the battlefields of the Galactic Civil War like a huge armored version of pachyderm cavalry.

Taken from Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare

The officially known dimensions of AT-AT are following:-

Height = 22.5 m
Length = 20 m Official specifications also place the AT-AT's height at a mere 15 meters.

But of course, sourcebooks are never wrong, and on that basis I accept your concession that Palpatine is a universe buster.

I can't believe Legend is still arguing that tossing around those statues puts Soa above Yoda.

But a machine can never be as heavy as solid mass like stone.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Official specifications also place the AT-AT's height at a mere 15 meters.
No.

More than 15 meters tall and 20 meters long, this nearly unstoppable behemoth looked like a giant legendary beast from the dark side.

Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But of course, sourcebooks are never wrong, and on that basis I accept your concession that Palpatine is a universe buster.
Too bad, that is revelation of a single source. And contradicted by DE sources themselves.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I can't believe Legend is still arguing that tossing around those statues puts Soa above Yoda.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F7AsCtzkw3w/maxresdefault.jpg

See that tiny figure right below the body of the AT-AT? That's Luke. Now please, kindly continue to argue that the AT-AT is 15 meters tall, and Luke is 3 feet tall.

That tiny Luke over there has 19px height.
AT-AT has 433px height.

433/19 = 22,8

Luke Skywalker = 172 cm height
AT-AT = 172 cm * 22,8 = 3921,6 cm height

3921,6 cm = 39,216 meters

Solved

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No.

More than 15 meters tall and 20 meters long, this nearly unstoppable behemoth looked like a giant legendary beast from the dark side.

Taken from The Complete Star Wars EncyclopediaEvidently not the material I was referring to.

WEG and the old Essential Guide recorded it as 15 meters, evidently since updated, but being wrong once means they can be wrong again.The sources you have raised being contradicted by the movies, clever boy.Originally posted by JKBart
That tiny Luke over there has 19px height.
AT-AT has 433px height.

433/19 = 22,8

Luke Skywalker = 172 cm height
AT-AT = 172 cm * 22,8 = 3921,6 cm height

3921,6 cm = 39,216 meters

Solved

Originally posted by The Ellimist
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/F7AsCtzkw3w/maxresdefault.jpg
Here:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/fire-hall-227-%E2%80%93-1904-queen-street-east-2-jpg.8627/

Look at the door below the clock tower for reference.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
See that tiny figure right below the body of the AT-AT? That's Luke. Now please, kindly continue to argue that the AT-AT is 15 meters tall, and Luke is 3 feet tall.
You brainless idiot, stop misquoting my assessments.

I have considered AT-AT at 22.5 m in height and 20 m in length.

Do you seriously think the guy in your picture looks as small as Luke does next to the AT-AT?

As JkBart points out, the idea that the AT-AT is 22.5 meters tall can be disproven by just counting pixels. Like, this is fantastically dumb, even by your standards. And it wouldn't even substantiate your insane notion that tossing around statues would make a Yoda-tier feat in either case.

Yeah, tossing around those statues doesn't make Soa a Yoda level combatant, and Vader's feat is simply and logically more impressive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Do you seriously think the guy in your picture looks as small as Luke does next to the AT-AT?
Do you have a brain or something even remotely similar in your skull?

Why are you looking at the human in the photo of the building that I cited?

I told you to look at the door below the clock tower. That door will give you an idea how tall a human would be in comparison to it while standing really close to it.

Here is another photo: http://www.molon.de/galleries/Malaysia/KL/Batu/img.php?pic=7

People (standing closer to the camera) look larger then those who are standing very close to the statue. That statue is 42 m tall.

You don't have even basic sense of photography.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
As JkBart points out, the idea that the AT-AT is 22.5 meters tall can be disproven by just counting pixels. Like, this is fantastically dumb, even by your standards. And it wouldn't even substantiate your insane notion that tossing around statues would make a Yoda-tier feat in either case.
AT-AT is officially 22.5 meters tall (confirmed in 2 sources that I have cited). Deal with it.

Using screenshots to estimate the size of an object can be problematic and not recommended.

That picture of the tower is taken from the angle, making the perspective completely different.

As you can see, in the picture it looks like the tower is leaning backwards lmao, that's why the guy looks larger

Screenshot with AT-AT shows everything perfectly aligned, that's why it's legit

http://i.imgur.com/nqQGqG7.gif

Is there a reason why you're trying to guess how big the AT-AT is relative to Luke by arguing from pictorial analogies rather than...just using the AT-AT image directly, like Bart did?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Using screenshots to estimate the size of an object can be problematic and not recommended.

Why? Luke and the AT-AT are essentially vertical, so it's pretty easy to line them up, measure their pixel length, and convert. Simple arithmetic. And we know that the films hold precedence over sourcebooks. Where is the "problem" in Bart's calculations?

Seriously, I thought you were at a point where your stupid comments had hit diminishing returns and you couldn't really make your reputation worse than it really was, but clearly I underestimated you.

It's problematic because it doesn't align with his opinion.

Also Legend should I assume a concession on the Yoda vs Soa front (i.e. the actual debate) considering your lack of a response?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Is there a reason why you're trying to guess how big the AT-AT is relative to Luke by arguing from pictorial analogies rather than...just using the AT-AT image directly, like Bart did?

Why? Luke and the AT-AT are essentially vertical, so it's pretty easy to line them up, measure their pixel length, and convert. Simple arithmetic. And we know that the films hold precedence over sourcebooks. Where is the "problem" in Bart's calculations?

Seriously, I thought you were at a point where your stupid comments had hit diminishing returns and you couldn't really make your reputation worse than it really was, but clearly I underestimated you.
Here is a much closer look at AT-AT: http://www.bitrebels.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Inside-The-AT-AT-Imperial-Walker-1.jpg

You can see humans stationed inside it. The height of AT-AT in the aforementioned photo is compatible with 22.5 m official figure.

22.5 m = 73.81 feet

A 6 foot tall individual will look really short next to a 73.81 foot tall structure or vehicle.

That's a sourcebook. The movies take precedence. You know, as we've been repeating to you multiple times.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
That's a sourcebook. The movies take precedence. You know, as we've been repeating to you multiple times.
These columns are 75 feet tall:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2hdvced.png

Now;

http://i68.tinypic.com/xqmctf.png

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Also Legend should I assume a concession on the Yoda vs Soa front (i.e. the actual debate) considering your lack of a response? Don't ignore me Leg, its upsetting.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cool, let's go with 50 then shall we? Noting of course that Soa only breaks off and levitates less than half of each:

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11114/111140132/4793606-1134748866-47922.gif

So we're dealing with what, 20 tonnes each? That's 80 tonnes altogether. Heavier than the Muntuur stones? Sure. Heavier than an AT-AT? Don't be absurd. Even if we assumed that AT-AT was dwarfed by the 1000 tonne tank you provided, said tank would have to be over 12 times its mass for such an assessment to work. Which is again absurd.

Indeed even if we were to assume an AT-AT was half its mass (despite being larger ), Vader would still be lifting 6 times the mass Soa did.

So Vader is lifting the heavier object here, a much heavier object; Yoda >> Vader, ergo, this feat does not put Soa in Yoda's league, like remotely. Case closed.

EDIT: Corrected the maths, don't worry, Yoda's still better.
Fair.

I did not argue that Soa lifted mass equivalent to an AT-AT. However, we shall keep in mind that Soa was not struggling with handling 80 tonnes of mass either. He casually lifted such mass and tossed it around as if it was nothing. And he did this while floating mid-air.

Therefore, Soa could certainly do a lot better then what we see on-screen. He is promoted as a threat to the entire galaxy, my friend.

Potentially, but then what Vader lifted was far heavier.

Whereas he has no trouble manipulating massive metal objects like this:

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4997850-vaderplatforms1.gif

Which more than compares to what Soa accomplished in terms of mass and manipulation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
These columns are 75 feet tall:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2hdvced.png

Now;

http://i68.tinypic.com/xqmctf.png



And like I've already pointed out to you, why are you trying to make pictorial analogies and rough guesses when you could just put the AT-AT picture in photoshop and measure its and Luke's relative pixel lengths?

JkBart already did that for you, and you conveniently ignored his post. You instead look for tilted pictures of other things, assume that they're equivalent, and then guess from there.

You're either a dishonest troll or an idiot.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And like I've already pointed out to you, why are you trying to make pictorial analogies and rough guesses when you could just put the AT-AT picture in photoshop and measure its and Luke's relative pixel lengths?

JkBart already did that for you, and you conveniently ignored his post. You instead look for tilted pictures of other things, assume that they're equivalent, and then guess from there.

You're either a dishonest troll or an idiot.
Translation: I (The Ellimist) don't want to concede due to my ego.

I accept your concession. Your blabbering makes no difference.

As for the thread itself,

@33 minutes, 52 seconds:

a59NA6c1nBA#t=33m52s

Yeah, I'm sure Yoda is pissing in his pants.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Translation: I (The Ellimist) don't want to concede due to my ego.

I accept your concession. Your blabbering makes no difference.

"
That tiny Luke over there has 19px height.
AT-AT has 433px height.

433/19 = 22,8

Luke Skywalker = 172 cm height
AT-AT = 172 cm * 22,8 = 3921,6 cm height

3921,6 cm = 39,216 meters

Solved"

Huh. It's almost like you've deliberately avoided responded to Bart's calculations to instead post other unrelated photos and vaguely guess based on your gut feeling.

Jesus, I can't believe you're a functioning human being at this point. Maybe I shouldn't.

Factor in the fact Mark Hammil is actually 175cm, and is wearing boots that add a minimum of 2cm onto his height, and it's even bigger

Would squish Soa tbh.

Soa can toss statues doe

That almost makes him a threat to padawan Anakin

Originally posted by The Ellimist
"That tiny Luke over there has 19px height.
AT-AT has 433px height.

433/19 = 22,8

Luke Skywalker = 172 cm height
AT-AT = 172 cm * 22,8 = 3921,6 cm height

3921,6 cm = 39,216 meters

Solved"

Huh. It's almost like you've deliberately avoided responded to Bart's calculations to instead post other unrelated photos and vaguely guess based on your gut feeling.

Jesus, I can't believe you're a functioning human being at this point. Maybe I shouldn't.
Luke Skywalker has 32 px height

AT-AT has 418 px height

----

1. You misquote my statements
2. I do have a functioning brain, thankfully. I am capable of doing my homework and am good in arts and similar stuff.
3. You better do your own homework before pointing a finger at another person's intellect. You are not as smart as you pretend to be.

Lmao

Oh, and don't forget that Luke is actually extending his arm upwards to use his grappling hook.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

2. I do have a functioning brain, thankfully. I am capable of doing my homework and am good in arts and similar stuff.

lol

up

Soa loses to Yareal Poof.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Crk9VaIT8aKRy/giphy.gif

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
https://media.giphy.com/media/Crk9VaIT8aKRy/giphy.gif

Brakiss oneshots as well

I now genuinely think LeGenD lied when he said he had an education.

I think all of you just wasted your time. The force doesn't take into account how heavy something is. Unless something in Legends has disproven that, but Yoda does say you use the force by concentrating on the force around an object, and "this crude nature" matters not. So the force doesn't care about size or weight, but it's more difficult to concentrate on the force around a larger object, and of course, objects farther away.

Originally posted by Zentrex
I think all of you just wasted your time. The force doesn't take into account how heavy something is. Unless something in Legends has disproven that, but Yoda does say you use the force by concentrating on the force around an object, and "this crude nature" matters not. So the force doesn't care about size or weight, but it's more difficult to concentrate on the force around a larger object, and of course, objects farther away.

He obviously doesn't mean that literally or else you could create all sorts of loopholes like condensing the matter of, say, a continent into a really tiny object (Star Wars tech should be able to do this) and then using it as a telekinetic weapon.

It does matter.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
He obviously doesn't mean that literally or else you could create all sorts of loopholes like condensing the matter of, say, a continent into a really tiny object (Star Wars tech should be able to do this) and then using it as a telekinetic weapon.

If he doesn't mean that literally, how does he mean it? I get your point, but such technology would only exist for plot purposes, and they can just say in the star wars lore that such technology is not possible, or has never been created or attempted before.

And it's not just Yoda, either. It's also the book "weapon of a jedi", which isn't legends, but it shows that when George Lucas was creating the Force, he thought it up as what it was described as.

And who's to say that the weapon you speak of is a loophole? Yeah, maybe a really dense object being really easy to lift CAN provide a type of weapon for a jedi. Perhaps they go to a planet with high density rocks, and manage to use rocks there as telekinetic weapons. That might even make for a good story. In fact, I remember a young adult novel called "Spore" in which Jerec used the force on these low-gravity boots (which weighed like 200 pounds, but were the size of regular shoes) to cause some damage. On top of that, it can show why gasses is effective weapons against force users. They're light, but spread out, and thus hard to move. So, someone with enough knowledge of the force could maybe make use of large, lightweight objects which would be difficult to lift with the force, but easy normally, creating easy-to-make barriers for Jedi. And what if a jedi creates a lightsaber with a super heavy rock inside it so it can't be lifted by a normal hand, only through the force? That would make for a clever weapon. So, yeah, it's not a loophole, but a pretty cool plot element.

Originally posted by Zentrex
If he doesn't mean that literally, how does he mean it?

It's clearly metaphorical, with some truth with respect to the psychological contributions. That's the only explanation that doesn't break Star Wars.



I took the extreme example (and in Legends they do mine neutronium, etc.) of a general principle, that having a power that moves things indifferent to mass breaks the entire system and leads to all sorts of no-limit abilities where if I'm in a star destroyer as a Jedi I can tear all of it apart by hugging the hull and just deconstructing it because force (the physics term) doesn't matter to me. Luke shouldn't have struggled to manipulate those artificial singularities at all in NJO, after all. You allow for absurd perpetual-motion/free-energy situations where by playing games with density and space configurations a random Jedi padawan could power the Death Star.



And there's a reason why he decided not to give the Jedi those abilities.



No it's not a "pretty cool plot element", lol. If they can make artificial singularities, which they can, then they completely screw over the mythos by combining it with telekinesis having no dependency on mass.

I don't think you've thought this through very carefully, honestly.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
It's clearly metaphorical, with some truth with respect to the psychological contributions. That's the only explanation that doesn't break Star Wars.

It's the only explanation that doesn't break certain stories. But, you can imagine star wars as having several continuities, and most of those can follow this rule.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I took the extreme example (and in Legends they do mine neutronium, etc.) of a general principle, that having a power that moves things indifferent to mass breaks the entire system and leads to all sorts of no-limit abilities where if I'm in a star destroyer as a Jedi I can tear all of it apart by hugging the hull and just deconstructing it because force (the physics term) doesn't matter to me. Luke shouldn't have struggled to manipulate those artificial singularities at all in NJO, after all. You allow for absurd perpetual-motion/free-energy situations where by playing games with density and space configurations a random Jedi padawan could power the Death Star.

The force allows for perpetual motion/free energy anyway. That's what it is. And it's harder to lift things which are harder to conceptualize in one's mind with the force. That's the "catch". this makes playing games with density and space configurations hard enough to make it impossible, for most force wielder, anyway.

I didn't go into detail, but we know it's harder to lift a bigger object, because it's harder to concentrate around. That's why abilities like Pyrokenesis are so difficult to control. You have to keep your mind wrapped around every aspect of the flame, even if it's tiny. So you can't just "mess around" with density and space configurations as easy as all that. You can, however, maybe build a lightsaber out of neutronium and then make it impossible to use without the force. And also, if something like the hull of a star destroyer is BIG, then it's harder to destroy, no matter the density. Also, singularities aren't just dense objects. If an object is so dense that gravity, space, and other forces are being impacted by it, then it would be harder to focus the force around it, just as it's harder to focus the force around something moving, like fire, gas, or blaster bolts. So Luke absolutely should have struggled as he did.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
And there's a reason why he decided not to give the Jedi those abilities.

He DID give jedi those abilities.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
No it's not a "pretty cool plot element", lol. If they can make artificial singularities, which they can, then they completely screw over the mythos by combining it with telekinesis having no dependency on mass.

I'll admit I didn't explain that size and distance weren't the only factors. Anything which is harder to focus the force around is harder to move. And the kinds of things you describe would be near impossible for a mind not fully in tune with the force to conceive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
I don't think you've thought this through very carefully, honestly.

I didn't explain it very carefully. And I didn't think through this, George Lucas did.

And, actually, I wanted to add, this is what I said on the "assessing Soa" post about this way of assessing the Force and why it's valid and true to Lucas' original vision and all that:

...feats are comparable. While nothing matches Grand Master Luke's feats, or similarly overpowered ones, I think the force bonds and projection we see in the Last Jedi is comparable to Legends-level powers.

So, in the Original Trilogy we're told that it's possible to lift giant things with the force because size doesn't matter in the Force. But it's still more difficult to lift objects which are larger. Why? Well, in order to lift something using the force, (it's implied by Yoda in Empire strikes back but states it directly in the canon novel Weapon of a Jedi), one must feel the force around them and the object they wish the move, and "swim" through the force and become the force, which the object is part of. Then, it's as simple as moving a part of your body, since all things are bound together by the force, like your body is bound to your mind. Which is also why becoming One with Force causes you to become so powerful. You are connected to all things, and are all living things embodied now. It would also explain why being completely one with the force means you can no longer affect the physical world, because you are no longer connected to the physical world in any way, just the essense of life. But that's retconned in both the legends and new new canon, so whatever, I guess. But I haven't answered the question of why it's harder to lift bigger things yet. So, if you have to wrap your focus around an entire object in order to lift it, you have to feel the force all around it and you. If the object is small, like a stone, then you can focus on the force around it easily. If the object is the size of an X-Wing, it takes considerably more practice and concentration and meditation. This also explains why it's harder to move things which are farther away. You have to sense the force that surrounds something WAY far away, yourself, thereby making you need to focus on the force between you and that object, so it would be much harder to lift something up that's several meters away, than something that's only inches away. This is why Vader strangling Ozzel from so far away is an incredible display of power, which it has been acknowledged as being in many books. He can reach so far through the force that he can kill people which are far enough away from him that they can't be seen through the naked eye. And Sidious strangling Count Dooku from half-way across the galaxy in TCW is even more impressive. So basically, when using the force, size and distance matter, but weight doesn't. So, lifting a cotton ball which spans 10 feet by 10 feet would be just as difficult as lifting a lead block that's 10 feet by 10 feet. And a tiny piece of a neutron star would be just as easy to lift as a rock that same size, regardless of density.

So when Luke creates that projection from Achch-To to Crait, it spans LIGHTYEARS. If he can effectively become so in tune with the force that he can do that, he should be able to concentrate on the force around Dreadnaughts no problem. He should be ripping them out of the Sky. And that's not even the end of it. Snoke creates that bond between Rey and Kylo. This bond requires the kind of energy which would kill Rey. It's also a strong enough bond to teleport actual matter (when Kylo touches the rainwater from Ahch-to), make Kylo and Rey forget their actual surroundings (When Rey fires that blaster off in the hut), and make them see the surroundings of the others (the Ben Swolo scene). It's also powerful enough to make them touch each other, and teleport their own essense and part of their physical body over lightyears. That kind of power is close to GM Luke's feat with pinning Caedus to that chair. And it rivals the most powerful of legends characters, so yeah, maybe Canon = Legends, now.

-

https://i.imgur.com/CvUMouJ.png

https://i1.wp.com/www.vanessanixanthony.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/em-dash1.gif

Originally posted by Azronger
I now genuinely think LeGenD lied when he said he had an education.


Seriously, get a life. How would you? Staying in your mom's basement for too long has taken a toll on your mental health.

AT-AT isn't as big as people assuming it to be. Movie based shots can be tricky for size-related estimations.

Official dimensions of AT-AT are:

22.5 m in TH
~16 m in TL