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Krayt is composite with Legacy/Apocalypse feats

Round 1: Lightsabers only

Round 2: All out

Fight takes place on neutral ground

Team 2

Team 1.

Team 2 as wyyrlok is the weak link here probably

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Team 2 as wyyrlok is the weak link here probably

http://i.imgur.com/r2JfR8r.gif

Team 1 both rounds.

Team 1 with remarkable ease mmm

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
http://i.imgur.com/r2JfR8r.gif

Wyyrlok is the weakest here imo.

Arcann solos, kek.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok is the weakest here imo.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IZfCHT1bmJs/UutARnOXJpI/AAAAAAAABsQ/D5XxJIVQJCw/s1600/doc.gif

They haven't been exposed to my phenomenal Wyyrlok wank, Zoltan mmm

Sel if you can convince these bunch of swtor wankers that Miss Darth overrated I have Force Ghost hurr durr Nox is below Wyyrlok then you are omnipotent.

If anyone can do it, it's you tho.

I'm not sure Wyyrlok is above Thanaton tbh.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/herman-cain-smile.gif

Legend actually destroyed Ant in a Thanaton vs Wyyrlok debate a year or two ago.

Powerscaling tho http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

If anyone wants to actually debate this with me I'm down, doesn't even have to be a 1v1 if you're scurred mmm

Well everyone admits that Krayt and Arcann are above Wyyrlok, right? Krayt is a no brainer and Arcann's defense against Valkorion utterly shits on anything Wyyrlok's done.

So it's pretty much just Nox. If you want to go powerscaling, Nox being >>> Thanaton is far more solid in establishing placement than Wyyrlok putting up a bit of a fight against Krayt until he got blitzed/vaguely pwned.

But I mean, Wyyrloks best thing is his mental attacks. Not only does Nox have a helmet that specifically protects her from that, but she's resisted the Dread Masters. Preeetty sure they're above Wryyloks pay grade.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So it's pretty much just Nox. If you want to go powerscaling, Nox being >>> Thanaton is far more solid in establishing placement than Wyyrlok putting up a bit of a fight against Krayt until he got blitzed/vaguely pwned.

But I mean, Wyyrloks best thing is his mental attacks. Not only does Nox have a helmet that specifically protects her from that, but she's resisted the Dread Masters. Preeetty sure they're above Wryyloks pay grade.

It's cute that this is what you think I mean by Wyyrlok's power scaling http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

Sel why u no answur an pm http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

Originally posted by Selenial
It's cute that this is what you think I mean by Wyyrlok's power scaling http://r35.imgfast.net/users/3513/11/32/39/smiles/841309534.gif

I don't really care.

Wyyrlok can't threaten Nox with mental attacks, sorcery, lightning, TK or in sabers. It's Nox's fight to lose and she ain't losing. Her demolishing of Thanaton is better than Wyyrlok's feats.

Base Nox was able to defeat a Jedi Master so powerful no Sith on Alderaan dared face him, destroyed a small army right after getting off Korriban, has lightning capable of shattering rock and defeated Khem and a Terentatek with a training saber. Yet even when Nox supplemented her power with that of two ghosts, one of which was one of the greatest Sith Sorcerers in the Empires history, Thanaton still one-shot her and Khem. Nox at her peak utterly destroyed Thanaton, casually backhanding his lightning and ragdolling him. She's above Wyyrlok.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/CnErThMyAIZZC/200.gif

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well everyone admits that Krayt and Arcann are above Wyyrlok, right? Krayt is a no brainer and Arcann's defense against Valkorion utterly shits on anything Wyyrlok's done.

So it's pretty much just Nox. If you want to go powerscaling, Nox being >>> Thanaton is far more solid in establishing placement than Wyyrlok putting up a bit of a fight against Krayt until he got blitzed/vaguely pwned.

But I mean, Wyyrloks best thing is his mental attacks. Not only does Nox have a helmet that specifically protects her from that, but she's resisted the Dread Masters. Preeetty sure they're above Wryyloks pay grade.

This tbh. Wyyrlok is not above Nox.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
https://media3.giphy.com/media/CnErThMyAIZZC/200.gif

Thanks.

Team 1 wins sabers with low-moderate difficulty.

All-out is much closer with Krayt and Arcann being the undecided for me. As I am the least familiar with Legacy-Era characters. However, with what I know of Wyyrlok, Nox is solidly above him as far as force application and the fact, as pointed out by Neph, Wyyrlok's main retinue of tricks are nullified by Nox's own advantages. Even so, I'm undecided for all-out as I am unsure which contest would end first.

Originally posted by Selenial
Edit: Editing

Fair enough. Also Sel I signed up for Comicvine for the Kaggath, heres to it returning. Looking forward to the fun.

Just to check Sel, you understand what I mean by "Base Nox", right? As in, Act 1 Nox without the collective power of 5 Force Ghosts and personal improvement? My response will vary depending on your answer (between delirious laughter and not).

When's it returning?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just to check Sel, you understand what I mean by "Base Nox", right? As in, Act 1 Nox without the collective power of 5 Force Ghosts and personal improvement? My response will vary depending on your answer (between delirious laughter and not).

Yes, if they were prime Nox's feats she wouldn't be TCW Ahsoka level.

I frankly don't give a flying **** about being better than a bunch of nameless, featless Sith on Alderaan. Beating 4-5 droids at a time is also beyond irrelevant :>

Also damn, how do you know about it Hutchy? Ima need some TOT names here mmm

Neph be cruising for a bruising, do your work Sel.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=877848 saw it here
Just realizing it says spring

Too bad the mods deleted my comment.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=877848 saw it here
Just realizing it says spring

Yeh but like.... Why do you browse the TOR forums.

I had problems quoting you and can't edit so I probably won't continue this today, fyi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say that Nox is superior in sorcery. I said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her with sorcery. Because he cannot. He's displayed no sorcery capable of affecting her. All his displayed sorcery is mental-based, which Nox would laugh off.

Also I'd say that Nox likely has access to far more Sith lore and knowledge than anything the Legacy Sith have. And you're forgetting that Thanaton has had just as much time to study Sith Lore as Wyyrlok plus has access to all I mentioned previously and he couldn't do diddly squat to Nox. I'm fairly certain that she's also actually confirmed to possess a wider array of sorcerous abilities than Wyyrlok is, given she's known to possess drain, stealth, mental attacks, dark healing and rituals.



It seems you've forgotten that I said that this was BASE Nox. Act 1 Nox, who was still growing into her own power. Who had not yet harnessed the combined might of 5 Force Ghosts. All I was doing was establishing Nox's power unamped so that we could better powerscale her powers at her pinnacle, to impress upon you that Nox already has remarkably potent ability in this regard before a massive increase in power. Peak Nox's lightning would certainly infinitely stronger.

Also I'm not too impressed with that scan. He doesn't appear to be doing much damage to it, just separating the pieces and destroying whatever's holding it together.

It also seems that you've once again forgotten that I only said that Wyyrlok couldn't threaten her with his lightning. Which he cannot. Nox has high-end defenses against Force Lightning. She casually back-handed Thanaton's Force Lightning (who's lightning is absolutely nothing to sneeze at), something I don't think anyone's ever replicated. Deflecting Force Lightning at all is supposed to be "almost impossible" and "a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters". That Nox backhanded such powerful lightning, with such obscene ease, speaks not only of her defensive capabilities, but of her incredible Force Mastery. Later, Thanaton attempts to use a massive, charged Force Storm on her and she literally just walks through the attack.

Wyyrlok isn't doing shit to her with lightning and his own defenses aren't as strong as Nox's. She can likely get through his defenses with some ghost-powered lightning and destroy him.



It seems you're not going to bother with an argument because you don't actually have one, kek. I already know Wyyrlok has no impressive TK feats, so you can drop the act. It's pretty funny that you claim to prefer feats at the end of your post after this paragraph.

Nox ragdolling Thanaton >>>>>> Wyyrlok ragdolling Krayt's dead corpse.



If by that you mean that he was clearly being pressed and unable to mount a single attack and then later gets pathetically blitzed, then sure. Nox is stated to be just as skilled with a lightsaber as she is with the Force, and as I just established that's pretty goddamn skilled. As I already said, she defeated Khem Val and a Terentatek back to back with only a training saber. As an acolyte. As a recently freed slave with no combat experience. After fighting through tombs to get to him. Obviously she would have immensely improved her skills since then, and post-Act 3 she has access to Tulak Hord's lightsaber teachings. She also defeated a Sith Lord after being drained of the Force. Frankly, she has far more impressive lightsaber skills to Wyyrlok. "Didn't get owned by Krayt but then whoops he did" isn't enough to suggest superiority.

And, again, I merely said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her. Even if he proves the superior swordsman, which I doubt, she can just block his lightsaber with the Force.



Maybe because they were all Act 1 feats.



If you'd actually watched the fight, Thanaton tries a lesser attack first and Nox activates the ghosts and blocks him. Thanaton then gets serious and one-shots Nox and Khem at once through her raised defenses. Good to see you know what you're talking about though.



Cool.

Nox's feats are better.



You're arguing based on power-scaling here, honey. All I was doing was establishing that even "acolyte" Nox was able to defeat a very powerful Jedi Master and his padawans before any improvements. And lol, the game actually calls it an army repeatedly and Nox wrecks it literally still in the prologue. It was headed by a Sith Lord too. So Nox literally just off of Korriban was already killing Sith Lords and smashing armies. 5 droids my ass.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say that Nox is superior in sorcery. I said that Wyyrlok can't threaten her with sorcery. Because he cannot. He's displayed no sorcery capable of affecting her. All his displayed sorcery is mental-based, which Nox would laugh off.
Debatable, but it's not a debate we need get into since he'd win either way.



Cute, baseless opinion you have there. Not only did Wyyrlok have access to most of the Sith History that survived Palpatine's fall, but he was also one of the only Sith in history to have unrestricted access to all of Darth Andeddu's secrets and holocrons. Even the power of Essence Transfer.



So in effect, you're using an almost entirely unexplained concept to hope to the high heavens that Nox's power gain is 100% of what the ghosts' original power was? Force Ghost power doesn't work like that, unless you have a quote proving otherwise.


Except we know he destroyed the armor. And you can actually see it splitting into different pieces. If that's your only defense against the feat though, kek.



In regards to her "back-handing Thanaton's force lightning"... Lol. You are forgetting to mention the fact this is immediately following the line "No... I won't be defeated, I can't be" through exasperated tone. This is a Thanaton who's already lost the first round of the fight, and is clearly depleted. On top of this, the two are fighting in the Dark Council Chambers in one of the most powerful Dark Side Nexus' in the galaxy. Whoever is in the healthiest position is in the best position to abuse the Nexus, and obviously since he's beaten and weakened, and she was victorious, deflecting his lightning is not anywhere near as impressive as it would be while both were in their prime.

Now, what is ****ing hilarious is that Wyyrlok did the exact same thing, in the font of Darth Andeddu's power. This being the Dark Lord of the Sith who reined for hundreds of years, reanimated.



If only you could prove her "ghost-powered lightning was anything extraordinary





Wyyrlok is confirmed to be stronger in Telekinesis than any other One Sith. Dozens of other One Sith have better Telekinetic showings than Darth Nox does. That is all that needs to be said.

Thanaton was incredibly weakened at that point. Oh, and Wyyrlok has launched tonnes of rubble at incredibly speed, so he quite blatantly is proficient in Telekinesis




If by that you mean he's clearly a Soresu duelist who was barely holding off Krayt, which is something I never argue against, then sure. He got "Pathetically blitzed" by Krayt because his blade was down and he was lulled into believing he'd dominated Krayt's mind. That's not exactly going to happen with Nox. Holding off Krayt is a phenomenal feat, considering Krayt's one of the greatest duelists in Sith history

No, Nox as an inquisitor was said to be as skilled with the blade as the force. The game makes it incredibly clear though that you only pick one path, in many of the canon discussions you have. Hence the quote does not apply

Please prove to me that this Sith Lord was anything decent with a blade. Or with Telekinesis. Seeing as you can block Lightning with a Lightsaber without even being force sensitive, and he has nothing on him as a duelist. Youngling tier confirmed



Ah, so all you're arguing is that she's inferior in literally everything but won't die. That's really relevant in a team fight




Link pls, we're obviously talking about different fights.




Cool. Jedi Krayt had a decent duel with Kenobi. Sith Krayt >>>> Son since he improved exponentially twice

As for the army, since she didn't take them all on at the same time, I don't give a flying ****.

Originally posted by Selenial



In regards to her "back-handing Thanaton's force lightning"... Lol. You are forgetting to mention the fact this is immediately following the line "No... I won't be defeated, I can't be" through exasperated tone. This is a Thanaton who's already lost the first round of the fight, and is clearly depleted. On top of this, the two are fighting in the Dark Council Chambers in one of the most powerful Dark Side Nexus' in the galaxy. Whoever is in the healthiest position is in the best position to abuse the Nexus, and obviously since he's beaten and weakened, and she was victorious, deflecting his lightning is not anywhere near as impressive as it would be while both were in their prime.

Now, what is ****ing hilarious is that Wyyrlok did the exact same thing, in the font of Darth Andeddu's power. This being the Dark Lord of the Sith who reined for hundreds of years, reanimated.


Nexus or not, tanking a ****ing massive Force Storm like it's absolutely nothing, literally just standing there taking the full power of the bolts >> anything Wyyrlok throws at Nox with the Force.

And Thanaton's lightning is prominent enough to allow him to fly, no Nexus.

No, pretty sure we're talking about the same fight:

6DYYl9G9nds

12.10 - 12.40.

This is the only time Thanaton one-shots Nox so I can't think of any other fight you could be thinking of. As you can see, Nox clearly has her ghost-powered defenses up. She has Ergast and Andru at this point.

I'll get to the rest later.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, pretty sure we're talking about the same fight:

6DYYl9G9nds

12.10 - 12.40.

This is the only time Thanaton one-shots Nox so I can't think of any other fight you could be thinking of.

I'll get to the rest later.

Yeh, see I didn't (and still don't) think he actually attacked the first time.

Oh, and there's no point having the power to defend against anything if you don't know how to defend against it.

The 4 masters were combined > Traya, but she had a technique they didn't know how to defend against. Nox is obviously in the same position.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Nexus or not, tanking a ****ing massive Force Storm like it's absolutely nothing, literally just standing there taking the full power of the bolts >> anything Wyyrlok throws at Nox with the Force.

And Thanaton's lightning is prominent enough to allow him to fly, no Nexus.

At full strength, yes. Still not seeing how that automatically places him above Wyyrlok though. Esoteric =/= more raw power.

And yes, while in the ghost form she tanked that with likely tutaminis. However she obviously cannot maintain the ghost power constantly, or she would not be walking around not using it 98% of the time.

It's actually shown very well with the new KOTFE storyline. Using Valkorion's power takes insane tolls on the body of whoever is using it. I challenge any of you to prove Nox is exempt to this...

Originally posted by Selenial
Yeh, see I didn't (and still don't) think he actually attacked the first time.

Oh, and there's no point having the power to defend against anything if you don't know how to defend against it.

The 4 masters were combined > Traya, but she had a technique they didn't know how to defend against. Nox is obviously in the same position.

Well obviously, because otherwise your argument would suffer.

Prove it.

(also lol @ your two-faced argument. You'd happily use the deleted content of Traya pwning the Masters all at once when it suits you to but now that it doesn't....)

Originally posted by Selenial
The 4 masters were combined > Traya
What on earth makes you say that?

Originally posted by Selenial
It's actually shown very well with the new KOTFE storyline. Using Valkorion's power takes insane tolls on the body of whoever is using it. I challenge any of you to prove Nox is exempt to this...

KEK, Nox had her body reshaped by the Mother Machine so she could use the combined ghost power without suffering.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4blxhCl0B1qbqg2u.jpg

Do you even Nox?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well obviously, because otherwise your argument would suffer.

Prove it.

(also lol @ your two-faced argument. You'd happily use the deleted content of Traya pwning the Masters all at once when it suits you to but now that it doesn't....)

What? It's exactly the same with the 3 person scene. I do not believe Traya > Kavar, Vrook and Zez combined.

Even if she were, Nihilus was not stronger than the entirety of Katarr. Vitiate was not stronger than all of Nathema. They just had undefendable attacks.

Originally posted by Nephthys
KEK, Nox had her body reshaped by the Mother Machine so she could use the combined ghost power without suffering.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4blxhCl0B1qbqg2u.jpg

Do you even Nox?

She was reshaped so they didn't kill her, that doesn't mean she can use them constantly.

I mean seriously, give me one reason why a Sith obsessed with power wouldn't use them constantly if she could.

Also please continue to ignore every other area of the argument, really showing your strength here Neph

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Nexus or not, tanking a ****ing massive Force Storm like it's absolutely nothing, literally just standing there taking the full power of the bolts >> anything Wyyrlok throws at Nox with the Force.

And Thanaton's lightning is prominent enough to allow him to fly, no Nexus. Eh?

Not to butt in here but:

https://j.gifs.com/G6Knv0.gif

You're assessment is incorrect. Guy is groaning in pain and everything.

And visual spectacle is hardly a proper way of assessing ability. Wyyrlok is more powerful than a weakened Thanaton, so of course he could unleash a more potent attack.

On the other hand Wyyrlok was able to repel the offensive powers of Darth Krayt, so who really has the advantage here?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
On the other hand Wyyrlok was able to repel the offensive powers of Darth Krayt, so who really has the advantage here?

But mah swtoooooooooooooooooooooooor!!!!!

Originally posted by Selenial
What? It's exactly the same with the 3 person scene. I do not believe Traya > Kavar, Vrook and Zez combined.

Even if she were, Nihilus was not stronger than the entirety of Katarr. Vitiate was not stronger than all of Nathema. They just had undefendable attacks.

I'm not seeing any proof that Thanaton used such an attack.

Originally posted by Selenial
She was reshaped so they didn't kill her, that doesn't mean she can use them constantly.

I mean seriously, give me one reason why a Sith obsessed with power wouldn't use them constantly if she could.

Also please continue to ignore every other area of the argument, really showing your strength here Neph

Whats the difference? It was reshaped so she could wield the power freely, no negative effects at all. Why would it hurt her to use considering that?

I kind of assumed she basically was. Its not like we get to see much of TOR's combat. I figured the purple energy was mainly stylistic and absence doesn't necessarily mean she isn't using the ghosts. But if Nox can backhand Thanatons lightning normally, sign me up for that shit. But I think thats pretty much all she didn't use it for.

I said I'd reply to the rest later or tomorrow. I know that you're basically obsessed with me, but theres no need to be so thirsty atm.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Eh?

Not to butt in here but:

https://j.gifs.com/G6Knv0.gif

You're assessment is incorrect. Guy is groaning in pain and everything.

And visual spectacle is hardly a proper way of assessing ability. Wyyrlok is more powerful than a weakened Thanaton, so of course he could unleash a more potent attack.

On the other hand Wyyrlok was able to repel the offensive powers of Darth Krayt, so who really has the advantage here?

Okay, so he might have been in pain for a few seconds, but If you watch the whole video, in the end he just shrugs off the attack and proceeds to make Thanaton his *****.

It's not only visual spectacle. It's a huge Force Storm. It is obviously powerful. Considering Thanaton's lightning is powerful enough to allow him to fly, I seriously doubt his Force Storm is just something anyone can tank, much less so impressively done.

Krayt never attacked Wyyrlok with a Force Storm of that magnitude.

When Nox is explictly drawing on the power of the ghosts, his eyes start glowing, so it stands to reason he is not when they do not.

And logically speaking they should be a finite resource, so it wouldn't be wise to draw on their power constantly.

I believe it is stated Nox was reshaped so that the Force Ghosts simply don't take a toll on his body.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Okay, so he might have been in pain for a few seconds, but If you watch the whole video, in the end he just brushes off the attack and proceeds to make Thanaton his *****.

It's not only visual spectacle. It's a huge Force Storm. It is obviously powerful. Considering Thanaton's lightning is powerful enough to allow him to fly, I seriously doubt his Force Storm is just something anyone can tank, much less so impressively done.

Krayt never attacked Wyyrlok with a Force Storm of that magnitude. Right, after the storm subsides.

I'm not saying its not powerful, but your implication that its better than anything Wyyrlok can produce is false. As is your implication that its better than Krayt's telekinetic attacks when Krayt is vastly more powerful than Thanaton at full strength, let alone when he's weakened.

Krayt threw some rocks at him. They weren't even big.

Yeah, Thanaton's attack was more impressive. He was going all out with his strongest attack. Evidently it was stronger than the attack that one-shot Nox + ghosts in Act 2. I'll take that over what was basically the Consular's starting attack.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm not seeing any proof that Thanaton used such an attack.

Are you mentally retarded? mmm

In the video you linked: "I am older, and wiser, and studied in rituals you can't even imagine."

Please, where is there a mention of being more powerful there? He is clearly stating his knowledge is far more effective than her power.




No, it was reshaped so the power would not devour her slowly, nothing was said about her actual outbursts.

Yet you're not replying, it's almost as if you want this discussion to drag on so everyone forgets the rest of it. It does beg questioning, since this has probably taken as long as your reply to my actual post would have.

Sel... I think you're cool but the statement: "I am older, and wiser, and studied in rituals you can't even imagine." Is pretty much implying his superiority in all aspects...

Originally posted by Nephthys
Krayt threw some rocks at him. They weren't even big.

Yeah, Thanaton's attack was more impressive. He was going all out with his strongest attack. Evidently it was stronger than the attack that one-shot Nox + ghosts in Act 2. I'll take that over what was basically the Consular's starting attack. What cancerous logic, yes, lets assess all feats by the visual scale of the attack, and think nothing of the force behind it.

This is a sensible way to go about things.

And it was the last gasp of a man infinitely Krayt's inferior.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Sel... I think you're cool but the statement: "I am older, and wiser, and studied in rituals you can't even imagine." Is pretty much implying his superiority in all aspects...

Not in that context, at all

The inquisitor summons a barrier of strength that surprises Thanaton. Instead of flaunting his power, Thanaton flaunts his knowledge, indicating the strong likelihood that his knowledge is what gave him the advantage in that scenario...

Originally posted by Selenial
Not in that context, at all

The inquisitor summons a barrier of strength that surprises Thanaton. Instead of flaunting his power, Thanaton flaunts his knowledge, indicating the strong likelihood that his knowledge is what gave him the advantage in that scenario...

I don't know. To me the way it's meant to be interpreted seems pretty clear. I guess that could have been it as well...?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
What cancerous logic, yes, lets assess all feats by the visual scale of the attack, and think nothing of the force behind it.

This is a sensible way to go about things.

And it was the last gasp of a man infinitely Krayt's inferior.

It could be Vader doing it and I'd still say Thanaton's was more impressive. It was just some rocks. Such a basic and indirect attack isn't mind-blowing. Look:

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4586293-force+shield+wyyrlok.jpg

Oh yeah, clearly such an amazing attack. Look at the sheer force of it. Wow.

Kek, Krayt doesn't even have any really impressive TK feats tho.

Originally posted by Selenial
Are you mentally retarded? mmm

In the video you linked: "I am older, and wiser, and studied in rituals you can't even imagine."

Please, where is there a mention of being more powerful there? He is clearly stating his knowledge is far more effective than her power.

Still not seeing any proof, just supposition. Thanaton is just saying that he has devastatingly powerful rituals at his disposal. This does not suggest anything about how they might be defended against. The fact that he has powerful attacks at his disposal doesn't mean they can't be defended against. You're making that up out of literally nothing. He could have shot a laser out of his dick and it would have fit the sentence.

Originally posted by Selenial
No, it was reshaped so the power would not devour her slowly, nothing was said about her actual outbursts.

Yet you're not replying, it's almost as if you want this discussion to drag on so everyone forgets the rest of it. It does beg questioning, since this has probably taken as long as your reply to my actual post would have.

Nope, pretty sure it said she could wield it freely. They aren't outbursts, she could "wield their combined power" "like a weapon". If her body had been reshaped to be able to use their power without harm, why are you assuming it would cause harm? Why would Nox's body be reshaped to hold them but not use them when thats the entire point in the first place?

Like I said, I wasn't able to properly reply to you last time or edit my posts. I'm not in the mood to do a big post again anyway, I want to eat dinner and watch some shit now.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Still not seeing any proof, just supposition. Thanaton is just saying that he has devastatingly powerful rituals at his disposal. This does not suggest anything about how they might be defended against. The fact that he has powerful attacks at his disposal doesn't mean they can't be defended against. You're making that up out of literally nothing. He could have shot a laser out of his dick and it would have fit the sentence.

How the **** do you defend against a ritual you've never heard of. The whole point of rituals is to be esoteric and difficult to combat, to do things you are not yourself capable of. Palpatine says exactly that in the book of Sith. Thanaton was clearly not breaking through it with raw power





Nope. She was dying from the power, and the mother machine said that her power will no longer consume her. That doesn't mean she can use it freely at all. You have still utterly failed to come up with a reason why it's any different to Valkorion in KOTFE.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It could be Vader doing it and I'd still say Thanaton's was more impressive. It was just some rocks. Such a basic and indirect attack isn't mind-blowing. Look:

http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11115/111155790/4586293-force+shield+wyyrlok.jpg

Oh yeah, clearly such an amazing attack. Look at the sheer force of it. Wow.

Kek, Krayt doesn't even have any really impressive TK feats tho.I'm going to have to check in at the clinic after this, because I'm pretty sure you've given me a brain tumor.

Those "rocks" were held in the grip of a vastly powerful Sith Lord, and therefore in order to repel them Wyyrlok would have had to overcome the telekinetic force directing them at him, there is nothing indirect about it and the size and weight of the projectiles is irrelevant lol.

And for the record Krayt > Vader.

Originally posted by Selenial
How the **** do you defend against a ritual you've never heard of. The whole point of rituals is to be esoteric and difficult to combat, to do things you are not yourself capable of. Palpatine says exactly that in the book of Sith. Thanaton was clearly not breaking through it with raw power

With Force defenses. They stop people from using the Force on you. Theres barely any techniques that require a specialized defense. Esoteric doesn't mean "non-standard defense". Knowing about a ritual isn't necessary for defense. If someone does a ritual that shoots lightning (which is in the game), you can block it with normally no matter if you know about it or not. Unless you can prove there was something special about the ritual, there's no reason to assume it couldn't be defended against normally.

Which you can't do, because you can't prove anything to do with this theory of yours.

Originally posted by Selenial
Nope. She was dying from the power, and the mother machine said that her power will no longer consume her. That doesn't mean she can use it freely at all. You have still utterly failed to come up with a reason why it's any different to Valkorion in KOTFE.

Except she's shown using the power of all the ghosts freely without issue. The problem started when she tried to do that in Act 2. At the end of Act 3 she pulls it off and is stated to be able to wield the combined power of all the ghosts as a weapon. Theres absolutely no reason to think Nox would be negatively harmed, and we actually see its not the case. In KotFE you don't have a body specifically engineered to house and use Valkorions power.

I love how Neph only showed the picture with the forced perspective to make them look small as well, those boulders were actually pretty sizeable:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11115/111155790/4577157-10.png

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm going to have to check in at the clinic after this, because I'm pretty sure you've given me a brain tumor.

Those "rocks" were held in the grip of a vastly powerful Sith Lord, and therefore in order to repel them Wyyrlok would have had to overcome the telekinetic force directing them at him, there is nothing indirect about it and the size and weight of the projectiles is irrelevant lol.

And for the record Krayt > Vader.

Wyyrlok got TK pwned by Andeddu. Who isn't more powerful than Wyyrlok considering how their fight turned out. He definitely isn't more powerful than Krayt.

And he didn't have to overcome anything, firstly Krayt overcame his TK by wresting control over those rocks in the first place and then throwing them back and all Wyyrlok did was throw up a bubble and watch them bounce off. Vader's thrown objects at people as well and they certainly didn't impact with the force of a bomb or anything.

Lol, Vader >> Krayt in TK.

Originally posted by Selenial
I love how Neph only showed the picture with the forced perspective to make them look small as well, those boulders were actually pretty sizeable....



Meh, looks like perspective to me. The biggest are closer to the "camera". And they're decent sized by nothing special.

What the **** Sel?! You've just made this entire page a pain in the ass to read through. Thanks

Originally posted by Nephthys
With Force defenses. They stop people from using the Force on you. Theres barely any techniques that require a specialized defense. Esoteric doesn't mean "non-standard defense". Knowing about a ritual isn't necessary for defense. If someone does a ritual that shoots lightning (which is in the game), you can block it with normally no matter if you know about it or not. Unless you can prove there was something special about the ritual, there's no reason to assume it couldn't be defended against normally.

Which you can't do, because you can't prove anything to do with this theory of yours.
There is no more reason for it to be a ritual you can defend against than it being a ritual you can't, without what Thanaton says. With what Thanaton says, it becomes remarkably clear. There are hundreds of rituals which we see no defense against, you see them all the time.

To be honest, even if it's true that it's not a ritual, all that's proving is that Nox isn't as powerful with ghosts as you're suggesting, since Thanaton isn't some uber powerful Sith Lord eclipsing the rest of the council, in fact he's laughed at and considered one of the lowest among them...



Incorrect.

You see, she uses the ghosts defensively numerous times before she explodes in a ball of rage that knocks her out. She's fine. Only when using them rampantly offensively does she ever experience issue, IE, when she unleashes all of their power at once, she can't control them. Then she finds out the ghosts are killing her without her even using them. All the previous ghost walkers died mysteriously, which indicates the ghosts will kill any host they're found in unless a solution is invented. That solution was the mother machine.

Afterwards, she's no longer dying. Does she use the ghosts for a massive explosion that one shots Thanaton though? Does she use them to deflect his lightning? No. She uses them sparingly, because she still suffers the effects of excessive use. Just because they're not killing her slowly doesn't mean she's immune to every downside of the power

Originally posted by Emperordmb
What the **** Sel?! You've just made this entire page a pain in the ass to read through. Thanks

Ngl wasn't expecting that mmm

Fixed, TBH.

Thank you. I legitimately mean that. You could've left it there but you didn't. Props to you

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok got TK pwned by Andeddu. Who isn't more powerful than Wyyrlok considering how their fight turned out. He definitely isn't more powerful than Krayt.

And he didn't have to overcome anything, firstly Krayt overcame his TK by wresting control over those rocks in the first place and then throwing them back and all Wyyrlok did was throw up a bubble and watch them bounce off. Vader's thrown objects at people as well and they certainly didn't impact with the force of a bomb or anything.

Lol, Vader >> Krayt in TK.



Meh, looks like perspective to me. The biggest are closer to the "camera". And they're decent sized by nothing special.

Kek, no one was arguing Wyyrlok > Krayt in TK, especially since there's a quote saying Krayt "far outstrips" every One Sith in the specific realms of Telekinesis and Lightning...

Which, by the way, is why Krayf isn't << Vader in TK

Your Legacy knowledge is abysmal Neph, stick to TOR.

I never said anyone was arguing that.

And no, Vader is still >> Krayt in TK.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok got TK pwned by Andeddu. Who isn't more powerful than Wyyrlok considering how their fight turned out. He definitely isn't more powerful than Krayt. Because Wyyrlok failed to defend himself...Bounced off a bubble? Lmao. Since when is that a thing?

You've misread the panel, you can tell by Wyyrlok's gesture that he's deflecting them with telekinesis.That's not the point. The kinetic force of the attack isn't important, its the fact that Wyyrlok was able to overcome the Krayt driving them forward.Its called powerscaling my friend. Educate yourself.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Bounced off a bubble? Lmao. Since when is that a thing?

You've misread the panel, you can tell by Wyyrlok's gesture that he's deflecting them with telekinesis.

Since Force Bubbles are a thing?

Sel's quote says that Krayt "far outstrips" Wyyrlok in TK though.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's not the point. The kinetic force of the attack isn't important, its the fact that Wyyrlok was able to overcome the Krayt driving them forward.

Krayt isn't driving them forward though. In the first panel they're shown rimmed with his power to indicate his grip. In the second they're not, indicating that he's thrown them.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Its called powerscaling my friend. Educate yourself.

Meh. I doubt there's a One Sith near Vader in the least.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since Force Bubbles are a thing?

Sel's quote says that Krayt "far outstrips" Wyyrlok in TK though.I don't remember them being particular bouncy, it stands to reason the rocks would shatter on impact.

What's your point? Valkorion "far outstrips" Arcann in all respects yet he still blocked his lightning, which you wank the hell out of.

Face it, its an impressive showing, and better than anything Nox has accomplished in that regard.Uh-huh, except in the previous panel Wyyrlok is lifting and directing the rocks without any glowy blue light so that doesn't indicate anything.

Nor does it make sense for Krayt to release his grip as that would lessen the potency of the attack.Cool, you can start with these guys:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/4605627-2745118124-46055.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11117/111173561/4605628-4085535054-46056.jpg

Who are well below the likes of Wyyrlok on the Sith totem pole, who Krayt himself outstrips. Go figure.

As for the whole "not being able to handle the ghosts at full potency" thing. Like a sensible person rather than state "I think this so you're wrong" or "I believe this so HA!" I went back and watched these scenes myself. In the Act 2 finale, Nox is overwhelmed by the spirits all flooding him/her with their power, which is what unleashed the blast Sel says would still deteriorate Nox. Which, while plausible, is a superfluous argument. The real question to ask is not whether that same energy would still harm Nox that way,but rather, are the ghosts still capable of unleashing all that energy in such a way that it damages Nox? To which the answer is no and is WHY Nox can wield it as she does at the End of Act 3, as is obvious, in a more refined and effective manner without burning her body out.

Now, as to Thanaton being tired when we cinematically see Nox bat away his lightning and TK dominate him, etc. It always intrigues me that people seem to act like Nox hadn't just fought Thanaton and was instead coming in when he was already beaten down. Yes Thanaton is tired, why? Because Nox defeatd him through superior Force mastery. This childish notion of "X could only do Y to Z because Z was tired" right after they fought is applying a stipulation caused by X to begin with in this instance. For example, on a more physical plane and one not open to as much interpretation....

Try saying the same ting about say... two MMA fighters and one submitting the other when the one who was victorious was obviously superior the entire fight. "Well, X only submitted him because he was tired!" obviously, we just saw the other out-fight them to GET them there so.... pointless fact, bravo.

And before Sel says something along the lines of... what was it? "Nox had to tire Thanaton out to ragdoll him." first of all game mechanics due to the fact that in the MMO you have to deplete a health bar. Second, if Sel is going to say things are true since she believes them, then I will take my turn if you please.

Obviously at the end of the confrontation Thanaton is winded. What is interesting to note is that there is actually a clue here as to the "tone" of the fight itself, despite us doing it in a game-mechanics fight. Nox, obviously not winded, doesn't just kill Thanaton and be done with. (Obviously able to as well) Instead Nox shows Thanaton their disparity in power by tanking everything he throws at her and stays standing. Now, like Sel's thoughts but with obvious view-able support, these are speculations based on what can be observed by any who watch this cinematic.

Frankly I'm not seeing this is a particularly relevant or telling argument. OK so Nox stomped Thanaton, Wyyrlok gave Darth Andeddu the same treatment.

Not really comparable. Wyyrlok exploited a psychological weakness, Nox godstomped.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Frankly I'm not seeing this is a particularly relevant or telling argument. OK so Nox stomped Thanaton, Wyyrlok gave Darth Andeddu the same treatment.

Well Beni, when one uses their opinion/interpretation to undermine feats, mind you with support from an all-too-willing-to-believe party, you have to start at square one.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Frankly I'm not seeing this is a particularly relevant or telling argument. OK so Nox stomped Thanaton, Wyyrlok gave Darth Andeddu the same treatment.
I also don't see why you need to be Vader's equal in TK to outclass Nox, Thanaton, or Arcann, tbh.

Beni thinks Krayt's > Vader tho.

Also we're discussing Wyyrlok more than Krayt.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really comparable. Wyyrlok exploited a psychological weakness, Nox godstomped. And despite being a master of mental manipulation, and despite it being a stipulated contest of illusions, Andeddu utterly failed to see through them, I think its obvious regardless that Wyyrlok outclassed him.Originally posted by Nephthys
Beni thinks Krayt's > Vader tho.

Also we're discussing Wyyrlok more than Krayt. You mean Beni knows.

You on the other hand are a little behind the curve.

Wyyrlok certainly won, sure, but he didn't stomp him like Nox stomped Thanaton and not even close to the same humiliating degree.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wyyrlok certainly won, sure, but he didn't stomp him like Nox stomped Thanaton and not even close to the same humiliating degree.

What.

He quite calmly and effortlessly deflected the lightning Andeddu seeked to ambush him with, which prompted Andeddu to completely rethink his efforts and retreat into an area in which he stood more of a chance... And he still lost.

It's pretty clear Wyyrlok was the decisive victor.

Originally posted by Vixas
As for the whole "not being able to handle the ghosts at full potency" thing. Like a sensible person rather than state "I think this so you're wrong" or "I believe this so HA!" I went back and watched these scenes myself. In the Act 2 finale, Nox is overwhelmed by the spirits all flooding him/her with their power, which is what unleashed the blast Sel says would still deteriorate Nox. Which, while plausible, is a superfluous argument. The real question to ask is not whether that same energy would still harm Nox that way,but rather, are the ghosts still capable of unleashing all that energy in such a way that it damages Nox? To which the answer is no and is WHY Nox can wield it as she does at the End of Act 3, as is obvious, in a more refined and effective manner without burning her body out.

Now, as to Thanaton being tired when we cinematically see Nox bat away his lightning and TK dominate him, etc. It always intrigues me that people seem to act like Nox hadn't just fought Thanaton and was instead coming in when he was already beaten down. Yes Thanaton is tired, why? Because Nox defeatd him through superior Force mastery. This childish notion of "X could only do Y to Z because Z was tired" right after they fought is applying a stipulation caused by X to begin with in this instance. For example, on a more physical plane and one not open to as much interpretation....

Try saying the same ting about say... two MMA fighters and one submitting the other when the one who was victorious was obviously superior the entire fight. "Well, X only submitted him because he was tired!" obviously, we just saw the other out-fight them to GET them there so.... pointless fact, bravo.

And before Sel says something along the lines of... what was it? "Nox had to tire Thanaton out to ragdoll him." first of all game mechanics due to the fact that in the MMO you have to deplete a health bar. Second, if Sel is going to say things are true since she believes them, then I will take my turn if you please.

Obviously at the end of the confrontation Thanaton is winded. What is interesting to note is that there is actually a clue here as to the "tone" of the fight itself, despite us doing it in a game-mechanics fight. Nox, obviously not winded, doesn't just kill Thanaton and be done with. (Obviously able to as well) Instead Nox shows Thanaton their disparity in power by tanking everything he throws at her and stays standing. Now, like Sel's thoughts but with obvious view-able support, these are speculations based on what can be observed by any who watch this cinematic.

I'm on my phone so I can't do the usual quote, breakdown, reply, but I can respond to the general argument.

I mean, unless I'm mistaken, what you're saying in the first paragraph is that Nox never unleashes the same amount of energy that she did at the end of act 2. You wouldn't be wrong, if that's what you're saying, but this entire time I've been saying it's because the same thing would happen.

Why is that relevant you ask? Because Neph's been suggesting that Nox's ghosts would amp her lightning and telekinesis beyond anything we've ever seen Nox do, because ghosts and reasons and shit. It's a ridiculous argument, she's never done it before, one needs to ask why, when dealing with a psychopathic Sith obsessed with power.

As for your Thanaton Act III points, you missed the point I'm afraid Nox "ragdolling" is quite impressive, I'll admit. But the fact of the matter is it's a weakened Thanaton. Your argument that it doesn't matter because Nox fought him to that weakened state, is false. It'd be an acceptable argument if we're talking about beating Thanaton as a whole, but we're not, we're talking about the specific act of Telekinetically dominating him. The fact they fought first is relevant because it shows Nox could not simply do this from the start, she can only do it while she's on relatively fine form and he is not. The only thing Nox is displaying by Telekinetically dominating him isn't a distinct power gap over him, but a deeper Force Reserve and stamina, potentially provided by both the Nexus and her Force Ghosts.

So yeh, a decent feat, relevant in a fight, but not in the ways Neph has been suggesting, since he suggested that feat outclasses all the hype, and the feats, Wyyrlok has regarding TK.

Originally posted by Selenial
Why is that relevant you ask? Because Neph's been suggesting that Nox's ghosts would amp her lightning and telekinesis beyond anything we've ever seen Nox do, because ghosts and reasons and shit. It's a ridiculous argument, she's never done it before, one needs to ask why, when dealing with a psychopathic Sith obsessed with power.

Swtore directly states that Nox is able to "wield their combined power like a weapon". What I and Vixas are saying is that Nox can use the power (all of it) in a much more controlled, effective manner after Voss. Which is obviously correct.

Also have you just not watched the Thanaton duel in a while? She's clearly still using the ghost-amp to ragdoll and then defeat Thanaton. You have the glowing eyes and swirling energy still going on.

Originally posted by Selenial
I'm on my phone so I can't do the usual quote, breakdown, reply, but I can respond to the general argument.

I mean, unless I'm mistaken, what you're saying in the first paragraph is that Nox never unleashes the same amount of energy that she did at the end of act 2. You wouldn't be wrong, if that's what you're saying, but this entire time I've been saying it's because the same thing would happen.

Why is that relevant you ask? Because Neph's been suggesting that Nox's ghosts would amp her lightning and telekinesis beyond anything we've ever seen Nox do, because ghosts and reasons and shit. It's a ridiculous argument, she's never done it before, one needs to ask why, when dealing with a psychopathic Sith obsessed with power.

As for your Thanaton Act III points, you missed the point I'm afraid Nox "ragdolling" is quite impressive, I'll admit. But the fact of the matter is it's a weakened Thanaton. Your argument that it doesn't matter because Nox fought him to that weakened state, is false. It'd be an acceptable argument if we're talking about beating Thanaton as a whole, but we're not, we're talking about the specific act of Telekinetically dominating him. The fact they fought first is relevant because it shows Nox could not simply do this from the start, she can only do it while she's on relatively fine form and he is not. The only thing Nox is displaying by Telekinetically dominating him isn't a distinct power gap over him, but a deeper Force Reserve and stamina, potentially provided by both the Nexus and her Force Ghosts.

So yeh, a decent feat, relevant in a fight, but not in the ways Neph has been suggesting, since he suggested that feat outclasses all the hype, and the feats, Wyyrlok has regarding TK.

Ah I see, well then I appreciate your points Lady Selenial. Thank you for responding. Though I do have a counter-point should you hear me out.

As for Nox's ability to ragdoll Thanaton without him being exhausted, I can make a solid case for this. At the end of Act 2 we see Nox's expulsion of power completely outclasses Thanaton. Totally and utterly to the point he flees. Now, I was drawing a very fine line when I meant that scenario wouldn't happen again. I'm not precisely saying Nox cannot reach that level of power again without damaging themselves. To be quite frank such a black and white, yes or no, kind of thing is something seems one that will be colored by our perception of the charcter one way or the other without concrete statements or a feat(s) dictating one way or the other. What I WILL say though, is that given Nox's newfound level of precise control over the ghosts, and our lack of knowing precisely how the fight went (and obvious game-mechanics dictating "health" is a thing and that smugglers can take saber strikes) it is entirely possible, and supported by Nox's demeanor at the end of the fight by my perception (Again this can be colored by your opinion of the character, or fight as a whole). Nox isn't striking Thanaton at first, Nox is taking EVERYTHING Thanaton can throw at him and then shrugging and dominating him. Maybe their entire "fight" were it cinmetically, would e this way. We have no way of actually knowing. However, what we DO know is Nox, when forced to use the ghosts in an unrestrained manner by them, blew an actively-ready, lightsaber-drawn Thanaton across the room and left him electrified. To myself, and quite honestly I would think anyone willing to drop prejudice for a moment, could put 2 and 2 together to see a more refined, if POSSIBLY by our opinion dampened, application of said power could do the same.

Now then, onto the actual opponent xD Wyyrlok is very impressive and is one of the Legacy Era characters I enjoyed researching. He has impressive TK feats, and through his form of media is given ample opportunity to flaunt this. Now, having studied respect threads for both I feel I have a better grasp of the character of Wyyrlok and their contest. To be frank, not TOO much has changed from my initial concept of the fight. Darth Wyyrlok is arguably as focused in mental manipulation (TP) as Nox is lightning. However, Nox and their subsequent story are all about overcoming frankly worse, constant assaults on their mind and body by five different sith spirits. On top of that, should Wyyrlok enter his mind in an attempt to control him, Nox can Dream-Walk into his own mind and expel Wyyrlok. Thus, Wyyrlok's TP will serve him no good here.

Telekinesis: Honestly, I give Wyyrlok a small edge in raw TK. One does not have to win every facet of a debate. Though depending on how effective the force barriers are of certain individuals, it's entirely possible this cold be reversed. However, I will say that Nox has employed VERY effective TP against other powerful Sith who were attacking him as he used it. Case in point, Darth Kallous, the sith Nox dominates before facing Thanaton on Corellia. Who was unleashing torrents of lightning at Nox, only to be flung clear across the room.

Lightning: I would honestly say Wyyrlok is around if not slightly below even Thanaton in lightning. Nox holds a clear advantage here with their lightning capable of killing Terentateks (Known for their incredible force resistance) and turning stone walls to little more than dust.

Now then, lightsaber combat is another matter entirely. Wyyrlok obviously possesses more concrete feats. Though often brought up though, I feel Nox's defeat of Palladius is slightly overlooked here. Given that, over the course of the duel, Nox's strength in the Force was being constantly drained at an alarming rate. As a matter of fact, Palladius himself states Nox was weakened enough for him to ragdoll, further highlighting the skill Nox must possess in order to compensate for being at such a huge force disadvantage. Even assuming Palladius is a run-of-the-mill, absolutely average Lordling, this says a lot for Nox's skill with a saber. Nox's

Finally, I also don't doubt at all Nox also holds the advantage of force reserves and physical stamina. Given their proclivity of fighting through entire bases with impunity.

Quoting system not working properly, so I'll just cite the statements.



Darth Thanaton spent decades studying ancient sources of knowledge (secrets of Tulak Hord, Marka Ragnos, Ajunta Pall and Naga Sadow among them) to hone his talents in the Dark Side.

Yet, Darth Nox outgunned him in a span of like 3 years?

Point is that Darth Wyyrlok's command of the Force might still be insignificant against Darth Nox.



Darth Thanaton's Force Lightning was potent enough to blow apart structures over 30 years before his prime. More importantly, he exponentially grew in power since the events of Exal Kressh.

However, Darth Nox tanked Darth Thanaton's signature expression of Force Lightning by drawing on the power of Force ghosts bind to him.

Point is that Darth Wyyrlok isn't threatening Darth Nox in this area.


Really?

Following showings:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4540452-5697344975-yXbaq.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4540461-8515922073-v1V0k.gif

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4540460-7965052545-KRWwB.gif

- say a lot about a Darth Nox's powers in general. Dominating a super-strong Sith Lord like that is something that we expect from a Palpatine level Force-user. Granted that Darth Nox was drawing on the power of Force ghosts bind to him to fuel his own during this time, nothing suggests that his utilization of the power of Force ghosts is a one-time thing.



Darth Nox defeated a Sith Lord in combat whose prowess with a Lightsaber is officially stated to be unparalleled.

Originally posted by Selenial
To be honest, even if it's true that it's not a ritual, all that's proving is that Nox isn't as powerful with ghosts as you're suggesting, since Thanaton isn't some uber powerful Sith Lord eclipsing the rest of the council, in fact he's laughed at and considered one of the lowest among them...
What?

Darth Thanaton is officially counted among the most powerful Sith Lords in history. He was confident in his abilities to an extent that he threatened the entire Dark Council of dire consequences (on its face) after he is done with Darth Nox. Unfortunately for him, those Force ghosts....

Darth Marr did not expect Darth Thanaton's demise during his life-time. I'd take his views seriously.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I also don't see why you need to be Vader's equal in TK to outclass Nox, Thanaton, or Arcann, tbh.
Correction: you need to be superior then Darth Vader to pull it off.

Pretty much every Sith in SWTOR has telekinesis on par with Vader.

Originally posted by Trocity
Pretty much every Sith in SWTOR has telekinesis on par with Vader.
No.

Darth Vader have some notable and praiseworthy telekinetic showings. However, this doesn't imply that some of the greatest of the SWTOR era do not rival him in this area due to lack of equal showings on pound-to-pound basis and/or exploration of their personal stories in comparison.

Power-scaling and feats complement each other at times.

Probably not going to reply until Neph gets to my post mmm

Would like to do it all at once

Legend enslaved your souls people. Stop resisting.

I'll be a while because Homestuck happened.

Originally posted by Selenial
Debatable, but it's not a debate we need get into since he'd win either way.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Selenial
Cute, baseless opinion you have there. Not only did Wyyrlok have access to most of the Sith History that survived Palpatine's fall, but he was also one of the only Sith in history to have unrestricted access to all of Darth Andeddu's secrets and holocrons. Even the power of Essence Transfer.

Well he sure used that to great effect, huh? He sure Essence Transfered the shit out of Krayt!

Didn't he only get Andeddu's stuff right before he died? Anyway, the point is irrelevant. As I said, Wyyrlok's displayed no sorcery useful against Nox, whereas Nox has plenty of combat relevant sorcerous abilities to call upon.

Originally posted by Selenial
So in effect, you're using an almost entirely unexplained concept to hope to the high heavens that Nox's power gain is 100% of what the ghosts' original power was? Force Ghost power doesn't work like that, unless you have a quote proving otherwise.

Why would I hope, it's what it is. Nox can use their "combined power" in battle.

Originally posted by Selenial
Except we know he destroyed the armor. And you can actually see it splitting into different pieces. If that's your only defense against the feat though, kek.

Can you provide evidence for how much damage he did or if he truly destroyed it?

Originally posted by Selenial
In regards to her "back-handing Thanaton's force lightning"... Lol. You are forgetting to mention the fact this is immediately following the line "No... I won't be defeated, I can't be" through exasperated tone. This is a Thanaton who's already lost the first round of the fight, and is clearly depleted.

This is merely supposition on your part. It's equally likely that Nox just b*tchslapped Thanaton once and he reacted as he does. Nox knocking him to his knee's with one attack could easily lead to his statements of disbelief, combined with his previous defeat. There's nothing that suggests a lengthy battle that required Thanaton to suffer any attrition. There is no "clearly depleted", you're reading what you want to. Furthermore, Nox gives Thanaton time to recover, to gather himself and freedom to do whatever he wants.

Originally posted by Selenial
On top of this, the two are fighting in the Dark Council Chambers in one of the most powerful Dark Side Nexus' in the galaxy. Whoever is in the healthiest position is in the best position to abuse the Nexus, and obviously since he's beaten and weakened, and she was victorious, deflecting his lightning is not anywhere near as impressive as it would be while both were in their prime.

WTF no. That isn't how it works, stop being a derp and stating your dumb fanon theories as fact.

Originally posted by Selenial
Now, what is ****ing hilarious is that Wyyrlok did the exact same thing, in the font of Darth Andeddu's power. This being the Dark Lord of the Sith who reined for hundreds of years, reanimated.

No he didn't. He reflected Andeddu's lightning with his palm, something very standard. It's just what Dooku did in AotC. There's no indication of ease. Nox literally slapped it aside in a deliberately insulting manner.

Originally posted by Selenial
If only you could prove her "ghost-powered lightning was anything extraordinary

http://p.fod4.com/p/media/5c597eb60b/uF9MjJo3QIaijySXC4iL_Confused%20Christian%20Bale.gif

She not only has her own power to draw upon but can freely use the "combined power" of 5 ghosts and wield them "as a weapon". I'm pretty sure 6 powerful Force Users worth of lightning is pretty ****ing extraordinary.

Originally posted by Selenial
Wyyrlok is confirmed to be stronger in Telekinesis than any other One Sith. Dozens of other One Sith have better Telekinetic showings than Darth Nox does. That is all that needs to be said.

Thanaton was incredibly weakened at that point. Oh, and Wyyrlok has launched tonnes of rubble at incredibly speed, so he quite blatantly is proficient in Telekinesis

Post the quote confirming that please? Also no, they don't, you're being ridiculous.

Um, no shit? Did you think I was arguing Wyyrlok can't use TK? Also you can't prove it was at incredible speed cuz it's in panel format. You just made that part up, again.

Also Thanaton wasn't incredibly weakened.

Originally posted by Selenial
If by that you mean he's clearly a Soresu duelist

Ahahahaha!

He wasn't getting his ass kicked, he was clearly just using Soresu! Of course!

Originally posted by Selenial
who was barely holding off Krayt, which is something I never argue against, then sure. He got "Pathetically blitzed" by Krayt because his blade was down and he was lulled into believing he'd dominated Krayt's mind. That's not exactly going to happen with Nox. Holding off Krayt is a phenomenal feat, considering Krayt's one of the greatest duelists in Sith history

Holy shit! Wrongaroony! Wyyrlok had his blade held high in preparation for a killing stroke. Krayt didn't even have his lightsaber in his hand. He retrieved it, activated it, turned around and buried it in Wyyrlok's chest before the guy could perform a single swing at a defenseless opponent who's giving a monologue. You should really double check your claims....

Originally posted by Selenial
No, Nox as an inquisitor was said to be as skilled with the blade as the force. The game makes it incredibly clear though that you only pick one path, in many of the canon discussions you have. Hence the quote does not apply

......

I'm pretty sure Nox is always an Inquisitor. And since the quote applies to all Inquisitor's, it applies to Nox. I'd say GG but, yeah......

Originally posted by Selenial
Please prove to me that this Sith Lord was anything decent with a blade. Or with Telekinesis. Seeing as you can block Lightning with a Lightsaber without even being force sensitive, and he has nothing on him as a duelist. Youngling tier confirmed

It doesn't matter how good the guy is with TK, Nox was literally defenseless and the guy proves it by shoving you effortlessly with it. Also the guy is a Sith Lord, he has superhuman reflexes and attributes and precognition. Nox beating him in sabers despite lacking the Force is a fantastic feat.

Originally posted by Selenial
Ah, so all you're arguing is that she's inferior in literally everything but won't die. That's really relevant in a team fight

No, I'm arguing that Nox is superior to Wyyrlok and he's the weakest one here. Keep up.

Originally posted by Selenial
Cool. Jedi Krayt had a decent duel with Kenobi. Sith Krayt >>>> Son since he improved exponentially twice

As for the army, since she didn't take them all on at the same time, I don't give a flying ****.

Hyuk hyuk, good one.

You know outside of video games people don't stare at you as you take out their buddies from across the room, right? And they can become aware of you without direct eye contact from 5 feet away? And can communicate and coordinate, right? Even when they're not in the same room?

Also nice job missing my point about Nox being able to beat a Sith Lord 5 minutes off of Korriban, which she arrived at as a slave with no combat experience or force mastery.

Originally posted by Selenial
There is no more reason for it to be a ritual you can defend against than it being a ritual you can't, without what Thanaton says. With what Thanaton says, it becomes remarkably clear. There are hundreds of rituals which we see no defense against, you see them all the time.

To be honest, even if it's true that it's not a ritual, all that's proving is that Nox isn't as powerful with ghosts as you're suggesting, since Thanaton isn't some uber powerful Sith Lord eclipsing the rest of the council, in fact he's laughed at and considered one of the lowest among them...

No, it doesn't. You still haven't given a single shred of evidence to support this theory. Unless there's something to suggest standard defenses or ghost-powered defenses wouldn't work, you cannot claim it was an unblockable attack. This is the same shit you tried to pull when you said Wall of Light was unblockable and it's equally as retarded here. Also no there aren't hundred of rituals we see with no defense. Zannah blocked Bane's ritual with a standard barrier. I don't have to prove that force defenses can block a force attack. Exceptions have to be proven.

That's retarded logic. Instead of shitting on Nox, you should re-evaluate your placement of Thanaton (as well as the fellow Dark Councilors). He's stated to be "supremely powerful" for a reason. He's not considered a low Council member, Ravage is just a twit. His feat of one-shotting a ghost-amped Nox is incredible and all it does is support the notion that he's an underrated Sith. I said I doubted Wyyrlok was even above Thanaton for a reason. Maybe you should educate yourself, Legend makes a strong case for him.

(and spoiler alert, Thanaton WON that thread )

Originally posted by Selenial
Incorrect.

Um, what? No. She uses them freely. That's a fact. Have you actually played played the Inq storyline? Because I'm seriously doubting it considering your posts. I'd thought you'd done them all.

Originally posted by Selenial
You see, she uses the ghosts defensively numerous times before she explodes in a ball of rage that knocks her out. She's fine. Only when using them rampantly offensively does she ever experience issue, IE, when she unleashes all of their power at once, she can't control them. Then she finds out the ghosts are killing her without her even using them. All the previous ghost walkers died mysteriously, which indicates the ghosts will kill any host they're found in unless a solution is invented. That solution was the mother machine.

Afterwards, she's no longer dying. Does she use the ghosts for a massive explosion that one shots Thanaton though? Does she use them to deflect his lightning? No. She uses them sparingly, because she still suffers the effects of excessive use. Just because they're not killing her slowly doesn't mean she's immune to every downside of the power

https://media.giphy.com/media/6mnp45e41uzZe/giphy.gif

She explodes because she's lost control of her power. That wasn't like, an attack she was doing. She didn't even manage to attempt an attack. Try actually looking at what you're talking about in the future:

MfMzL1RAeHc#t

2.50

It's not an attack that she failed to replicate because her grasp of the power is lesser. When she exploded it was due to her poor control and precisely because she couldn't contain the power and it damaged her. Afterwards she's able to use it with control and ease. After she walks out of Thanaton's Force Storm she continues to use the ghosts power to dominate him. Again, how about you actually check your sources before you post:

J3VCiF3OhCE

6.06

I need to reboot that fugging tournament. Was 10/10 quality.

It's hilarious how Ant had that thread in the bag and completely tanked his own case, lol.

These days, I'm in complete agreement that Wyyrlok > Thanaton. Heck, there's a Nox vs Wyyrlok argument going here, for fvck's sake.

How is there a debate when everyone knows that being in TOR automatically makes you better?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
These days, I'm in complete agreement that Wyyrlok > Thanaton. Heck, there's a Nox vs Wyyrlok argument going here, for fvck's sake.

Counterpoint: Thanaton can fly with lightning tho.

Also Thanaton ritual-pwning Nox is comparable to Wyyrlok, imo.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
How is there a debate when everyone knows that being in TOR automatically makes you better?

Blasphemers have invaded the board.

Indeed. Nox is Krayt tier at the least.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Thanaton ritual-pwning Nox is comparable to Wyyrlok, imo.

I dunno, is it? I recognize that even 2 ghosts Nox was very powerful, but it probably isn't better than Wyyrlok wrecking Andeddu.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And Krayt and Nox are similar in strength imo.

GG2EZ

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I dunno, is it? I recognize that even 2 ghosts Nox was very powerful, but it probably isn't better than Wyyrlok wrecking Andeddu.

Wyyrlok didn't wreck him, it was a decent fight. Thanaton one-shot high-Jedi Master level Nox amped by 2 ghosts, one of which was one of the greatest Sorcerers in Imperial history and the other who had slaughtered hundreds of Sith that had invaded his tomb.

Its some tight shit.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Indeed. Nox is Krayt tier at the least.

Except that Krayt was already "far superior" with lightning/TK to Wyyrlok prior to his Reborn ampage. Then there's the whole deal with Apocalypse, which raises Krayt a good notch.

Fact is: There is a LARGE gap between Thanaton and Nox, and Thanaton is Nox's prime confirmed-powerful showing in victory. It would be like us trying to place someone like Sidious if his closest duel was against Ki-Adi Mundi. Mundi's a good swordsman on his own, just not compared to Sids. Thanaton's a force beast on his own, just not compared to amped-Nox. I'd say Wyyrlok fits in that large gap between them.

I also feel it worth mentioning, again, that a decent "portion" of why I give the victory to Nox is because Wyyrlok's main focus (TP) is useless against Nox. Even Selenial, in her very colored opinion of Nox can see that... I hope. While Nox is above Wyyrlok so much with lightning, an ability that will affect the outcome of the match much more than failed TP.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Except that Krayt was already "far superior" with lightning/TK to Wyyrlok prior to his Reborn ampage. Then there's the whole deal with Apocalypse, which raises Krayt a good notch.
Yes, but Nox is in TOR, SKILLZ.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
These days, I'm in complete agreement that Wyyrlok > Thanaton. Heck, there's a Nox vs Wyyrlok argument going here, for fvck's sake.
You disappoint me.

Exal Kressh have feats comparable to Wyyrlok III and she couldn't overwhelm Teneb Kel. Darth Thanaton is a profound leap from Teneb Kel; this is not just apparent from literature but also the fact that Darth Thanaton literally "killed" Darth Nox (amped by the power of two Force ghosts) with a single esoteric technique. The ghosts revived Darth Nox afterwards.

Darth Nox had to bind 6 Force ghosts to himself and undergo metamorphosis from the Mother Machine to wield them as a weapon, to take out Darth Thanaton in the end. As I pointed out before, this is Palpatine TIER shit.

I just assume that Darth Nox is not featured in future developments. His story remains largely ambiguous after his primary story arc or he released the Force ghosts. Officially, a Jedi Master (i.e. Hero of Tython) represents the Outlander.

Look at the center:

http://www.mmo-central.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/SWTOR-Alliances-1080x582.jpg

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exal Kressh have feats comparable to Wyyrlok III

Not really.



Uh, she definitely did.



Hardly.



Odds are he died an irrelevant death at the hands of the Eternal Empire, like the rest of the Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Not really.
Exal Kressh destroyed large structures, resisted telepathic influence of the Emperor, disintegrated a Lightsaber of Teneb Kel, cut a swath through scores of opponents (including dozens of Sith Warriors) and also crashed the huge space station. Moreover, she was capable of combat even after getting shot in the back by a powerful rifle.

I'd say she is comparable.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, she definitely did.
Teneb Kel took lot of abuse. Credit where due.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Hardly.
It is.

Shall I remind you what some Force ghosts did to Palpatine?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Odds are he died an irrelevant death at the hands of the Eternal Empire, like the rest of the Jedi and Sith.
He might have freed the Force ghosts. Who knows.

Kek, Newguy doesn't even know that Thanaton iS SUPREME VITIATE TIER. Whhat a ****ing noob.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Kek, Newguy doesn't even know that Thanaton iS SUPREME VITIATE TIER. Whhat a ****ing noob.

Nawwww, he's trash tier. It's simple: everyone in the sith empire is trash compared to Vitiate, and canon says Sidious > Vitiate and Plagueis > Vitiate (see: hardcover back of Plagueis, which came out after Vitiate's introduction and even references the Sith Emperor). So scaling 80% Vader = RotJ Palpatine and we conclude that Vader could've crushed anyone in TOR except for Vitiate and maybe Revan like a toothpick.

Originally posted by Selenial
Yet you're not replying, it's almost as if you want this discussion to drag on so everyone forgets the rest of it. It does beg questioning, since this has probably taken as long as your reply to my actual post would have.

This is pretty ironic right now tbh.