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*Canon feats only for Maul

Force sabers all out

In DoE, Darth Bane suspected that the ancient sith were far beyond him because he struggled to master their powers. Sidious expresses admiration for Bane in Plagueis but doesn't care about Maul, so the Ancient Sith >>> Bane > Maul. Ulic is on par with a pre-prime Exar Kun who was the most powerful of the ancient sith according to KJA. Ulic wins easily, and he probably defeats Palpatine too: IIRC Drew Karpyshyn said that Bane vs. Revan vs. Vader was too close to call, so that must mean that Ulic >> Sidious, because Sidious is only 12.5% above Vader as per George Lucas, but the ancient sith are so far above Revan (and by transitive property Bane and Vader) that Traya said they (Exile and co.) were like children playing with toys to them. The quotes that Palpatine is the GOAT are <<< Drew's word, because Drew is an out-of-universe source.

Spite thread.

Originally posted by The Ellimist In DoE, Darth Bane suspected that the ancient sith were far beyond him because he struggled to master their powers. Sidious expresses admiration for Bane in Plagueis but doesn't care about Maul, so the Ancient Sith >>> Bane > Maul.

The fact that Palpatine expressed admiration for Bane does not necessarily mean he admired Bane's power or his skill. He might've thought he was formidable, sure, but it's a subjective assumption at best. For all we know, he might've expressed admiration for Bane due to his accomplishments as Sith (ie Rule of Two, wiping out the One Sith, revolutionising the Sith Order, etc).



Lad, if all your power scalings made sense, a lot of things wouldn't. Power scaling doesn't always work; there are a lot of different quotes that contradict each other, a lot of different factors to consider, and a lot of idiotic inconsistency in the SW universe.



Wut.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
The fact that Palpatine expressed admiration for Bane does not necessarily mean he admired Bane's power or his skill. He might've thought he was formidable, sure, but it's a subjective assumption at best. For all we know, he might've expressed admiration for Bane due to his accomplishments as Sith (ie Rule of Two, wiping out the One Sith, revolutionising the Sith Order, etc).


Nah.



Yeah but that could apply to every argument you're making too; why do yours beat mine when inconsistencies clash? Fact is according to Drew, Revan, Bane and Vader are on the same tier, and according to Traya, ancient sith >>>> Revan. Deal with it punk.



Nah.

Ulic without too much trouble.

Ulic

Ulic, good lord.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Nah.



Yeah but that could apply to every argument you're making too; why do yours beat mine when inconsistencies clash? Fact is according to Drew, Revan, Bane and Vader are on the same tier, and according to Traya, ancient sith >>>> Revan. Deal with it punk.



Nah.


It could be, yah.


That wasn't my point. The best way to debate X vs. Y is by taking into account each other's feats and accolades and compare them. When you start power scaling to the extent you are you start finding a lot of inconsistencies that obviously cannot possibly be accurate. It's bullshit that Bane is stronger than Sidious. There are quotes stating him as the most powerful (at least Legends ones), and that's the impression every author gives and has ever given us of Sidious. His feats and his accolades are vastly superior and more impressive to Bane's. If by power scaling you reached the conclusion that he's somehow more powerful, that actually pretty much proves my point.

Fact is, Drew's opinion means nothing. What he wrote in the book matters, not what his personal views on certain characters are.
For amusement's sake, let's say Drew is correct for a second. You're arguing he says Revan = Bane = Vader. So, unless you think Vader > Sidious, Bane's actually inferior according to your own logic.
And yeah, according to Traya many things. Still, she wasn't actually wrong, but it doesn't mean much. Ancient Sith = Vitiate, Tulak Hord, Marka Ragnos, etc. Considering KOTOR Jedi were pretty shit overall, it's actually not surprising at all if it turns out Ancient Sith are superior. As an efficient reference to Kreia's claim, Marka's spirit manifests itself to Ulic and Exar and deems them worthy Sith successors. Very good arguments can be made that Exar or Ulic < Prime Revan. Kreia was referring to Revan waaay before his prime, so it doesn't matter, anyway.

Try again, kid. It's Colonel to you.

Originally posted by Sinious
Ulic

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
It could be, yah.


That wasn't my point. The best way to debate X vs. Y is by taking into account each other's feats and accolades and compare them. When you start power scaling to the extent you are you start finding a lot of inconsistencies that obviously cannot possibly be accurate. It's bullshit that Bane is stronger than Sidious. There are quotes stating him as the most powerful (at least Legends ones), and that's the impression every author gives and has ever given us of Sidious. His feats and his accolades are vastly superior and more impressive to Bane's. If by power scaling you reached the conclusion that he's somehow more powerful, that actually pretty much proves my point.

Fact is, Drew's opinion means nothing. What he wrote in the book matters, not what his personal views on certain characters are.
For amusement's sake, let's say Drew is correct for a second. You're arguing he says Revan = Bane = Vader. So, unless you think Vader > Sidious, Bane's actually inferior according to your own logic.
And yeah, according to Traya many things. Still, she wasn't actually wrong, but it doesn't mean much. Ancient Sith = Vitiate, Tulak Hord, Marka Ragnos, etc. Considering KOTOR Jedi were pretty shit overall, it's actually not surprising at all if it turns out Ancient Sith are superior. As an efficient reference to Kreia's claim, Marka's spirit manifests itself to Ulic and Exar and deems them worthy Sith successors. Very good arguments can be made that Exar or Ulic < Prime Revan. Kreia was referring to Revan waaay before his prime, so it doesn't matter, anyway.

Try again, kid. It's Colonel to you.




You think the solution to inconsistencies in evidence is to use feats as the gold standard?

Oh, my god.

You see, at least with power-scaling, authors have some sort of ability to rank how powerful characters are relative to one another. This requires far less precise tracking than the need to calculate the energy output of each exercise of telekinesis to make sure that it isn't grossly out of proportion to everyone else - you don't believe me? Well, let's apply your logic to people. No powerscaling, just feats.

I seem to recall Yoda struggling to lift a metal pillar that a mid-tier Sith from TOR could do in his sleep.

I seem to recall FotJ Luke being wary of taking a long fall that AotC Anakin makes in his sleep.

I seem to recall movie characters moving in distinctly slower than light speeds, compared with the faster-than-eye-can-perceive PoD Bane's of the world.

I seem to recall Kopecz (no name Kaan brotherhood sith) taking out an entire squad of soldiers before they can fire more than one shot, while Yoda and Obi Wan fail to replicate this feat against clone troopers in far more favorable conditions.

I seem to recall Luke failing in many cases to use telekinesis that persons such as Bane have demonstrated to get himself out of sticky situations.


Come on, now.

Any version of Maul gets beat by Ulic.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Any version of Maul gets beat by Ulic.

To be fair TCW Maul is debatable.

Traya thinks Revan is like the Heart of the Force tho, implying that Revan is like the strongest thing she's ever known. Also, Jedi Revan>Jedi Kun so if they had the same boosts when they fell to the DS Sith Revan>Sith Kun.

Wow, it's been awhile merchant.

Btw what makes you think Jedi Revan> Kun?

Mando Wars Revan is almost featless, Jedi Kun stomped nearly 30 Ruk'ata with his powers suppressed by a nexua and Nadd's spirit, he also defeated Vodo multiple times over.

Kun was drawing on the dark side for that feat. He wasn't hindered. That was kinda the point.

He had to use his anger, whilst Nadd's spirit blocked his Force powers, he wasn't corrupted yet.

Jedi Master Vrook who was present when Kun was still in the Dantooine academy said that Revan is the greatest student to have ever been trained there, something along those lines.

Vrook's council was never around during the Great Sith war, Vodo was the Jedi Watchman of Dantooine, the Jedi Enclave and its council was established after the Exar Kun war, once the entire Order rebuilt and underwent extreme policy changes.

Don't drink Ant cool-aid.