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Ahsoka is in her prime. Galen Marek as of his first battle with Rahm Kota.

Battle takes place on the orbital station where he and Kota fought. Who wins?

You sound mad.

Well Rahm Kota caught Marek's lightning while laughing apparently and Ahsoka is far beyond Kota based on their respective showings against Vader. So yeah Ahsoka stomps.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You sound mad.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Well Rahm Kota caught Marek's lightning while laughing apparently and Ahsoka is far beyond Kota based on their respective showings against Vader. So yeah Ahsoka stomps.

....Beyond Kota in Force application?.....Uh huh.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
....Beyond Kota in Force application?.....Uh huh.

Yes. If you combined Legends and Canon that's obvious. Vader no diffed Kota within 5 seconds brute forcing his way through his TK defenses. I highly doubt he could do that to Ahsoka casually.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes. If you combined Legends and Canon that's obvious. Vader no diffed Kota within 5 seconds brute forcing his way through his TK defenses. I highly doubt he could do that to Ahsoka casually.

I was just talking about Force application, we haven't seen Ahsoka do anything as far as redirecting/absorbing Force Lighting casually.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

Tell me. Why did you make this thread, Beni?

Galen stomps. ****ing put up Beni.

We all know why he made this thread. D:<

Ahsoka kicks his ass so hard he kills himself mid-fight.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Ahsoka kicks his ass so hard he kills himself mid-fight.

Galen is a superior force user, superior duelist and superior physically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkNLHictW8

I appreciate your input, Syndicate.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Well Rahm Kota caught Marek's lightning while laughing apparently and Ahsoka is far beyond Kota based on their respective showings against Vader. So yeah Ahsoka stomps.

Ahsoka can't bare-hand lightning though.

I'll be typing up a post as to why. It's landing platform will be the Ahsoka wank juices that have solidified on this forum.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ahsoka can't bare-hand lightning though. Anakin can't either but we all know he'd murder-stomp Kota/early-TFU Galen.

Ahsoka handily beats Early-game Marek tbh.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Tell me. Why did you make this thread, Beni? To promote intelligent discussion.

Blocks fire from over a dozen rebel soldiers and casually throws a TIE.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qeIxiho5iGE/VIxBTbeLCII/AAAAAAAGcM0/wnBKZVuwltM/s1600/p1_24%2Bcopy.jpghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NRyfRR8Ud4k/VIxBUONKNmI/AAAAAAAGcNA/Mi6wpM0gOuY/s1600/p1_25%2Bcopy.jpg

Throws another TIE casually, skids an enourmous control console and flings a group of rebel soldiers with a force push, uses force lightning to kill a group of stormtroopers.

Note: Stormtrooper armor is insulated.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m2LV9vWzw_k/VIxBV2YK9QI/AAAAAAAGcNM/fXmEx3EKzXY/s1600/p1_26%2Bcopy.jpghttp://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/127594/5020447-7396835236-46100.jpg

Galen by this point has lasted for 6 hours in an extended bout against Vader and has been stated to have all but perfected lightsaber combat.

"Under Vader's relentless tutelage, the Apprentice all but perfected the fine art of lightsaber combat and learned to wield many fearsome dark side powers." - The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.

"He fought like a machine, too, with relentless blows and single- minded aggression. The first time they had dueled, in Starkiller's first life, Vader had displayed no anger at all-just determination, not to kill his apprentice, but to wear him into submission. The fight had raged across the training deck of the Executor for hours, with Starkiller never landing a SINGLE blow, no matter how he tried. He had gone from excitement at thinking that he had graduated to a new level of mastery to realizing just how much he had left to learn. More fuel had been added to the hatred he had felt for his Master and tormentor, along with a twisted kind of love for the man who made him stronger by showing him how weak he was. The fight had only stopped when Starkiller collapsed unconscious from exhaustion and was dragged by PROXY to his meditation chamber." - The Force Unleashed 2.

He's also stated to have superhuman agility and been shown to be able to apply the Force in midcombat on more then one occasion before this point.

"The men leapt and tumbled with inhuman agility. When they gestured, metal walls buckled, and engine parts flew like like missiles." - The Force Unleashed.

"This time he pushed telekinetically as he came, attempting to knock Kota's feet out from under him before bringing his blade to bear." - The Force Unleashed.

Rahm himself is not an opponent to be underestimated. He deflected Galen's attacks casually at the beginning of the fight and near the end ripped the control station from the TIE factory it was attached to.

"He raised his left hand and with the power of the dark side unleashed a bolt of Sith lightning at the renegade Jedi. Kota only laughed. Raising his left hand in a move that was a mirror image of the apprentice's own, he sent the lightning arcing back to its source. The energy struck both of them, hurling them apart." - The Force Unleashed.

"Again, however, Kota deflected his Force energies back at him. Again they were pushed apart." - The Force Unleashed.

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/127594/4293455-kzdd2e.gif

Originally posted by Beniboybling
To promote intelligent discussion.

Intelligent discussion my ass.

http://blogs.plos.org/obesitypanacea/files/2010/10/SaltShaker.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Spilled_Pepper.jpg

Originally posted by Syndicate
Intelligent discussion my ass. Your response is interesting, a value your contribution to these boards.

Vader still > Marek even by the end of TFU. Ahsoka gave Vader a very good fight, and Vader was actually trying to kill her, so. That only shows how good Ahsoka and Vader are tbh.

I'll give you this tho: Galen has better TK than her.

Yeah, Galen wouldn't be able to do as well as Ahsoka did against Vader at this point.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Vader still > Marek

I don't know why I'm even bothering with you but an explanation for your beliefs would be nice.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Yeah, Galen wouldn't be able to do as well as Ahsoka did against Vader at this point.

He already has and better.

Ahsoka can only win if she beats him in a duel, if not she gets godstomped by Galen's force abilities. Again she has no experience with lightning so he can potentially oneshot her with his FL

Uh... the Galen that fought Kota is not the same as the Galen at the end of the book who beats Vader.

Originally posted by carthage
Ahsoka can only win if she beats him in a duel, if not she gets godstomped by Galen's force abilities. Again she has no experience with lightning so he can potentially oneshot her with his FL Like Dooku stomped AotC Kenobi with lightning?

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Uh... the Galen that fought Kota is not the same as the Galen at the end of the book who beats Vader.

Who are you responding to? Btw quoting's a thing.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I don't know why I'm even bothering with you but an explanation for your beliefs would be nice.

WTF is your problem? That seemed personal.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Who are you responding to? Btw quoting's a thing. That's ironic given you've like just discovered quoting, but given the context of my post I was clearly responding to you.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
WTF is your problem? That seemed personal.

Because your statement was idiotic. How the hell could Galen possibly be construed as being TFU Vader's inferior by the end of TFU? D:<

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Uh... the Galen that fought Kota is not the same as the Galen at the end of the book who beats Vader.

Like Dooku stomped AotC Kenobi with lightning?

And? Your point?

She hasn't been shown to be capable of deflecting force lightning either.

Originally posted by Syndicate
And? Your point?

She hasn't been shown to be capable of deflecting force lightning either. "He already has and better" except at the point he fought Kota he actually hasn't, lmao.

It should be common sense/basic knowledge.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Uh... the Galen that fought Kota is not the same as the Galen at the end of the book who beats Vader.

Like Dooku stomped AotC Kenobi with lightning?

She's never shown deflecting lightning with his saber at all, and has never even experienced it in TCW. Why should anyone believe she is capable of it?

Originally posted by carthage
She's never shown deflecting lightning with his saber at all, and has never even experienced it in TCW. Why should anyone believe she is capable of it? Seeing as how AotC Kenobi easily blocked Dooku's lightning despite never encountering something like it before it should be common sense, plus the fact Anakin likely would have taught her given the fact he regularly encounters Dooku.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
"He already has and better" except at the point he fought Kota he actually hasn't, lmao.

It should be common sense/basic knowledge.

Except he has. Go back and actually read my post on the first page. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Because your statement was idiotic. How the hell could Galen possibly be construed as being TFU Vader's inferior by the end of TFU? D:<

'I don't know why I'm even bothering with you' honestly seems like it goes beyond that statement. I've never treated you badly tbh.


And not idiotic. Whenever Vader and Galen fight during TFU and TFUII, Vader never actually attempts to kill him and in the novel is described as not going all out, etc. And Galen, even then, is hard-pressed against him all the time. So, that's why.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Except he has. Go back and actually read my post on the first page. I'm not going to repeat myself. YOU HEARD IT HERE, FOLKS: SPARRING MATCHES WITH VADER > HOLDING YOUR OWN AGAINST A SERIOUS VADER WHO IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO MURDER YOU!

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
'I don't know why I'm even bothering with you' honestly seems like it goes beyond that statement. I've never treated you badly tbh.


And not idiotic. Whenever Vader and Galen fight during TFU and TFUII, Vader never actually attempts to kill him and in the novel is described as not going all out, etc. And Galen, even then, is hard-pressed against him all the time. So, that's why.

The novel STATES that BEFORE that point Vader had either not been giving it his all or Galen himself had acquiesced so Vader at the time also had the advantage of Galen not knowing his full capabilities.

"The apprentice understood that, until this moment, they had never truly fought as equals. His master had either held back or he himself had capitulated."

And Galen still defeats him both in lightsaber combat and in the Force. This is after he's fought through the Imperials standing between him and the Rebel leaders on the Death Star. And even still he retains enough energy to fight Sidious afterwards.

Thus my seemingly "aggressive" response is really me being frustrated with the lack of thought that went into your post.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
YOU HEARD IT HERE, FOLKS: SPARRING MATCHES WITH VADER > HOLDING YOUR OWN AGAINST A SERIOUS VADER WHO IS ACTUALLY TRYING TO MURDER YOU!

A 6 hour sparring match vs a fight that lasted a few minutes where Vader's main goal is retrieving a Sith Holocron.

Alright now. I have to go to school. Keep pumping out your cancer so I can nuke this thread when I return.

Originally posted by Syndicate
A 6 hour sparring match vs a fight that lasted a few minutes where Vader's main goal is retrieving a Sith Holocron. Ahsoka sparring with Anakin endlessly vs. Anakin beating down Dooku in minutes. TCW Ahsoka > Dooku confirmed.

Sparring with your master isn't the same as fighting him in a battle to the death, you ****ing moron.

Galen wrecks her in force.

Loses sabers.

All out is really up there.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/L02M3FJhkF19S/giphy.gif

Harder, Syn. Try harder.

I will only address this supposedly "idiotic" idea that Vader > Marek.

Marek defeated Vader in TFU, but that was in part a by-product of Vader becoming unbalanced by his application of Dun Moch.

On the other hand in their second confrontation with Marek's more powerful clone it's stated that:

He may have defeated Vader before, but Vader had learned from that mistake. He knew the measure of his former apprentice now.

And with Marek failing to apply any kind of Dun Moch he is decisively beaten. Hence Vader's superiority.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
http://media0.giphy.com/media/L02M3FJhkF19S/giphy.gif

Tbf I'm only saying all out is out there because idk which Galen this is.

Early Galen can range from the one who fought Ti, to the very earliest one.

The crazy thing is that galen is really young when he's performing all these feats, I'm pretty sure he was like 19
So imagine a living weapon trained by birth only in his prime
He would've been crazy
But because it's early galen I think ahsoka just about takes it (6/10)

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Tbf I'm only saying all out is out there because idk which Galen this is.

Early Galen can range from the one who fought Ti, to the very earliest one.

Hm?

OP says it's Galen as of his fight with Kota.

Its not close when you consider how much more powerful Galen is.

I didn't read OP, sorry.

I guess the only thing that changes is that Ahsoka takes all out.

Although Force Powers would make a difference so meh.

Logically Ahsoka should be Maul-tier in the Force.

Regardless, she's a massively superior duelist to Galen at this point.

Is she really though?

Yes.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Sparring with your master isn't the same as fighting him in a battle to the death, you ****ing moron.

What is it, Fresh?

You become more Freshest by the day. I'm proud of you.

Originally posted by Beniboybling

I will only address this supposedly "idiotic" idea that Vader > Marek.

Marek defeated Vader in TFU, but that was in part a by-product of Vader becoming unbalanced by his application of Dun Moch.

On the other hand in their second confrontation with Marek's more powerful clone it's stated that:

He may have defeated Vader before, but Vader had learned from that mistake. He knew the measure of his former apprentice now.

And with Marek failing to apply any kind of Dun Moch he is decisively beaten. Hence Vader's superiority.

Pretty much what I was referring to.


Anyway, what is for sure, tho, is that Galen is Ahsoka's superior in the Force by a significant margin. If this is all-out, I'm not sure the fight would end. If it's pure sabers, I think Ahsoka would win in a close fight.

Galen as of his fight with Kota is getting molested, not close at all.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You become more Freshest by the day. I'm proud of you. Yeah well Synidcate will do that to you

Ah, right. I was thinking of end-game Marek or TFUII.

Yeah Ahsoka eviscerates him.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Ahsoka sparring with Anakin endlessly vs. Anakin beating down Dooku in minutes. TCW Ahsoka > Dooku confirmed.

Sparring with your master isn't the same as fighting him in a battle to the death, you ****ing moron.

Sith training is obviously going to be harsher you "****ing moron."

Also quote for Ahsoka sparring "endlessly" with Anakin.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Harder, Syn. Try harder.

I will only address this supposedly "idiotic" idea that Vader > Marek.

Marek defeated Vader in TFU, but that was in part a by-product of Vader becoming unbalanced by his application of Dun Moch.

On the other hand in their second confrontation with Marek's more powerful clone it's stated that:

He may have defeated Vader before, but Vader had learned from that mistake. He knew the measure of his former apprentice now.

And with Marek failing to apply any kind of Dun Moch he is decisively beaten. Hence Vader's superiority.

Dun Moch? What are you talking about? The only think that comes close to what you're saying is Galen saying Vader didn't have a father and Vader temporarily gaining the advantage BECAUSE of that. It worked in Vader's favour just like Dooku's backfired Dun Moch worked in Anakin's.

Also there's nothing stating that the Clone is more powerful then the original and btw the clone was at the time was unaware of how powerful Vader by the end of TFUII was just like Galen was unaware of how powerful Vader was by the end of TFU.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah Ahsoka eviscerates him.

I'll be dealing with you on CV later.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Sith training is obviously going to be harsher you "****ing moron."

Also quote for Ahsoka sparring "endlessly" with Anakin.
True sith training is more intense most likely
But the master isn't gonna actually kill the apprentice lol you're delusional if you think that just because he survived a 6 hour sparring sesh doesn't mean he could actually beat him

Originally posted by hutchy1345
True sith training is more intense most likely
But the master isn't gonna actually kill the apprentice lol you're delusional if you think that just because he survived a 6 hour sparring sesh doesn't mean he could actually beat him

Of course not but then neither could Ahsoka. I think fighting Vader for 6 hours in a Sith sparring session is as good or better then fighting Vader for a few minutes when he's distracted by attempting to accomplish a more primary objective.

How do you know vader is distracted? Maybe he thought that the fall from his tk would kill ahsoka
Either way when the temple was collapsing he looked like he definitely wanted ahsoka dead and yet she seems to have survived

Originally posted by Syndicate
I'll be dealing with you on CV later.
Right sorry I haven't replied to you yet about Zannah's sorcery. You posted literally right as I was about to sneak out of my house that night and I haven't had enough computer access since then to reply.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Right sorry I haven't replied to you yet about Zannah's sorcery. You posted literally right as I was about to sneak out of my house that night and I haven't had enough computer access since then to reply.

No problem. Your lack of faith in Galen is disturbing though...

Originally posted by Syndicate
No problem. Your lack of faith in Galen is disturbing though...
Eh he's just too far before his peak at this point. I don't see his lightsaber skills measuring up to Ahsoka's performance against Vader when he is still being given a good fight by Kota.

End of novel Galen is a completely different story though.

Originally posted by hutchy1345
How do you know vader is distracted? Maybe he thought that the fall from his tk would kill ahsoka
Either way when the temple was collapsing he looked like he definitely wanted ahsoka dead and yet she seems to have survived

Because there's a Sith superweapon powering up right above him that might be used to damage the Empire. Something Sidious would not be pleased with as that's the reason he was sent there in the first place. Given Ahsoka and he have fallen much greater distances before I doubt that. That's because the holocron had already been removed and she had just cut off a portion of his mask enraging him. We don't know if she survived and even if she did we don't know under what circumstances she managed to.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Eh he's just too far before his peak at this point. I don't see his lightsaber skills measuring up to Ahsoka's performance against Vader when he is still being given a good fight by Kota.

End of novel Galen is a completely different story though.

I can understand that but then again he did fight through Imperial AND Rebel forces blocking his way to Kota beforehand so perhaps he could have defeated Rahm more quickly had his force reserves not been as depleted as they were.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Because there's a Sith superweapon powering up right above him that might be used to damage the Empire. Something Sidious would not be pleased with as that's the reason he was sent there in the first place. Given Ahsoka and he have fallen much greater distances before I doubt that. That's because the holocron had already been removed and she had just cut off a portion of his mask enraging him. We don't know if she survived and even if she did we don't know under what circumstances she managed to. Naw my friend for one the there is no evidence the superweapon was powering up to fire, in fact its implied that Ezra would need to provide a target for that to happen.

Then we have Vader expressing his disbelief that Ezra knew how to operate it, nor does removing the holocron seem a particularly pressing matter for him.

So we've no reason to assume he had half his attention on the temple while fighting Ahsoka, as that would serve no purpose.

More likely, as I have said before, that he was directing all his attention and powers to Ahsoka so he could remove her as an obstacle and recover it.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Naw my friend for one the there is no evidence the superweapon was powering up to fire, in fact its implied that Ezra would need to provide a target for that to happen.

Then we have Vader expressing his disbelief that Ezra knew how to operate it, nor does removing the holocron seem a particularly pressing matter for him.

So we've no reason to assume he had half his attention on the temple while fighting Ahsoka, as that would serve no purpose.

More likely, as I have said before, that he was directing all his attention and powers to Ahsoka so he could remove her as an obstacle and recover it.

And how would Vader know that?

He could have been bluffing and even if not he's likely going to want to get there before Maul or somebody with knowledge on how the weapon works actually gets up there to use it.

If there's a car crash on the side of the road it serves no purpose to slow down and see what happened but we do anyways. It's a subconscious action.

I think you're not taking into account that these characters can be distracted just like any other.

Ahsoka slaughters.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Sparring with your master isn't the same as fighting him in a battle to the death, you ****ing moron.

Well, since he's talking strictly stamina, it basically is. I don't know who the **** you think Vader is, but he's not exactly going to let Marek take a quick five to grab a glass of water and breathe. Nor is he the kind of person to go easy on Marek, you train by being beaten, Vader would push him to his limits for the full duration.

Furthermore, I don't see why everyone's placing Marek below Ahsoka in blade work. This guy's mastered three seperate forms of Lightsaber combat by this point, Soresu being one of them. His defense was good enough to hold back a fully trained Juyo master, which is supposedly the hardest form to defend against and requiring many other forms mastered to even learn... His fights with Ti and Paratus should be taken into account too. All he did was refine his force techniques and his adaptability, so it's not like he improved so dramatically that his fights with them are out of early-Galen's reach.

Ahsoka challenging Vader doesn't automatically place her above him

Y'all mother****ers using Kota vs Vader as an example, forgetting that he was blind and had fallen kilometres off a space station, hardly in his prime.

I don't see how Ahsoka's making it through Galen's defences before being shat on in the force...

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, since he's talking strictly stamina, it basically is. I don't know who the **** you think Vader is, but he's not exactly going to let Marek take a quick five to grab a glass of water and breathe. Nor is he the kind of person to go easy on Marek, you train by being beaten, Vader would push him to his limits for the full duration.

Furthermore, I don't see why everyone's placing Marek below Ahsoka in blade work. This guy's mastered three seperate forms of Lightsaber combat by this point, Soresu being one of them. His defense was good enough to hold back a fully trained Juyo master, which is supposedly the hardest form to defend against and requiring many other forms mastered to even learn... His fights with Ti and Paratus should be taken into account too. All he did was refine his force techniques and his adaptability, so it's not like he improved so dramatically that his fights with them are out of early-Galen's reach.

Ahsoka challenging Vader doesn't automatically place her above him

Y'all mother****ers using Kota vs Vader as an example, forgetting that he was blind and had fallen kilometres off a space station, hardly in his prime.

I don't see how Ahsoka's making it through Galen's defences before being shat on in the force...

Pretty much. Even though I don't rate Galen very highly as a duelist.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, since he's talking strictly stamina, it basically is. I don't know who the **** you think Vader is, but he's not exactly going to let Marek take a quick five to grab a glass of water and breathe. Nor is he the kind of person to go easy on Marek, you train by being beaten, Vader would push him to his limits for the full duration.

Furthermore, I don't see why everyone's placing Marek below Ahsoka in blade work. This guy's mastered three seperate forms of Lightsaber combat by this point, Soresu being one of them. His defense was good enough to hold back a fully trained Juyo master, which is supposedly the hardest form to defend against and requiring many other forms mastered to even learn... His fights with Ti and Paratus should be taken into account too. All he did was refine his force techniques and his adaptability, so it's not like he improved so dramatically that his fights with them are out of early-Galen's reach.

Ahsoka challenging Vader doesn't automatically place her above him

Y'all mother****ers using Kota vs Vader as an example, forgetting that he was blind and had fallen kilometres off a space station, hardly in his prime.

I don't see how Ahsoka's making it through Galen's defences before being shat on in the force...

Let's not forget that Kota wasn't a bad duelist, his fight with Galen ended more or less because his stamina gave out rather than just being beaten by sheer bladework.

Kota also was able to switch styles mid-duel and even had some moves that Galen(who trained with PROXY who had all these famous lightsaber duelists and their moves to imitate) hadn't seen before.

Well put Syndicate.

Thanks for the support Sel.

Also thank you Nuis.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, since he's talking strictly stamina, it basically is. I don't know who the **** you think Vader is, but he's not exactly going to let Marek take a quick five to grab a glass of water and breathe. Nor is he the kind of person to go easy on Marek, you train by being beaten, Vader would push him to his limits for the full duration.

Furthermore, I don't see why everyone's placing Marek below Ahsoka in blade work. This guy's mastered three seperate forms of Lightsaber combat by this point, Soresu being one of them. His defense was good enough to hold back a fully trained Juyo master, which is supposedly the hardest form to defend against and requiring many other forms mastered to even learn... His fights with Ti and Paratus should be taken into account too. All he did was refine his force techniques and his adaptability, so it's not like he improved so dramatically that his fights with them are out of early-Galen's reach.

Ahsoka challenging Vader doesn't automatically place her above him

Y'all mother****ers using Kota vs Vader as an example, forgetting that he was blind and had fallen kilometres off a space station, hardly in his prime.

I don't see how Ahsoka's making it through Galen's defences before being shat on in the force... Told you this thread had discussion value.

Originally posted by Syndicate
And how would Vader know that?Because if he didn't he would have been in much more of a hurry to remove it.Bluffing? What do you mean?

And right, another reason to put all his powers into defeating Ahsoka. Not a reason to actually be concentrating on the temple exterior at the expense of his opponent.Uh-huh. I think you're not taking into account that Vader is a Dark Lord of the Sith capable of tapping in to a mystical and ominipresent energy field.

He's perfectly capable of remaining aware of his surroundings (which is all he need be) while applying all his skills in combat with Ahsoka. And it would be a rookiee error he'd never commit to allow himself to be distracted (which would serve no purpose) when in combat with a lethal opponent - one that can be won in nanoseconds and lost by a fractional misstep.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Dun Moch? What are you talking about? The only think that comes close to what you're saying is Galen saying Vader didn't have a father and Vader temporarily gaining the advantage BECAUSE of that. It worked in Vader's favour just like Dooku's backfired Dun Moch worked in Anakin's.Nope, I'm talking about what happened after:Marek understood that he couldn't unbalance Vader by pissing him off, but by exposing the weak, fragile character Vader hid behind his mask, and it worked.Ah I was mistaken, what the quote actually says is that the clones inherited Marek's skill and Force ability.

Regardless Vader still capably defeated him.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Told you this thread had discussion value.

Before we continue I'd like you to tell me honestly if you really thought that or if this was a troll thread directed at me.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because if he didn't he would have been in much more of a hurry to remove it.Bluffing? What do you mean?

And right, another reason to put all his powers into defeating Ahsoka. Not a reason to actually be concentrating on the temple exterior at the expense of his opponent.Uh-huh. I think you're not taking into account that Vader is a Dark Lord of the Sith capable of tapping in to a mystical and ominipresent energy field.

He's perfectly capable of remaining aware of his surroundings (which is all he need be) while applying all his skills in combat with Ahsoka. And it would be a rookiee error he'd never commit to allow himself to be distracted (which would serve no purpose) when in combat with a lethal opponent - one that can be won in nanoseconds and lost by a fractional misstep.

He was in a hurry to remove it. That's my point.

That he thought Ezra knew how to use the weapon. Also I'm saying that he's not going to have his full attention on Ahsoka as he's going to be distracted by having to make sure no one like Maul or Kanan are making their way towards Ezra to help him use the weapon.

And how would that change his basic human nature in this regard?

He likely didn't NEED to have his full attention on the fight given Ahsoka's inferiority. Aside from that though if he's projecting his senses somewhere else his full attention is not going to be on the fight thus he's not fighting at full capacity.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Nope, I'm talking about what happened after:Marek understood that he couldn't unbalance Vader by pissing him off, but by exposing the weak, fragile character Vader hid behind his mask, and it worked.Ah I was mistaken, what the quote actually says is that the clones inherited Marek's skill and Force ability.

Regardless Vader still capably defeated him.

Holy shit. xD Jeezus dude. I haven't seen someone attempt to reach that far since... Well, ever. Vader shows absolutely no sign of being affected by Galen's words. It's simply Galen coming to the realization that using the Dark Side for revenge would leave him worse off then before. Vader's energy is flagging by that point in the fight and so he succumbs to Galen's bladework.

Actually that's in doubt once I took a second look at the fight. The clone muses on needing to get into an indefensible position likely to get Vader to lower his guard which is exactly what happens. I think it highly likely the clone orchestrated those events so that he could get into a position where he could defeat Vader.

Been a busy few days so I missed this. Cba to debate the topic at large but I'll address this much.Originally posted by Syndicate
Before we continue I'd like you to tell me honestly if you really thought that or if this was a troll thread directed at me. Legit thread. Originally posted by Syndicate
He was in a hurry to remove it. That's my point.Except he wasn't, in fact he seems much more interested in getting information from Ahsoka and Ezra.No he didn't, he explicitly expresses disbelief it was the case when he's about to strike him down. The fact that he was prepared to kill him pretty much proving he thought the boy was useless.And I'm saying that again as a Dark Lord of the Sith capable of tapping in to a mystical and omnipresent energy field all he'd need to be is aware of his surroundings (which is an important thing to do while in lightsaber combat as is) and that he doesn't need to project anywhere when his natural senses should easily encompass the span of several hundred meters.

So no, I'm failing to see how to be fully effective in lightsaber combat, Vader has to employ tunnel vision.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Been a busy few days so I missed this. Cba to debate the topic at large but I'll address this much.Legit thread. Except he wasn't, in fact he seems much more interested in getting information from Ahsoka and Ezra.No he didn't, he explicitly expresses disbelief it was the case when he's about to strike him down. The fact that he was prepared to kill him pretty much proving he thought the boy was useless.And I'm saying that again as a Dark Lord of the Sith capable of tapping in to a mystical and omnipresent energy field all he'd need to be is aware of his surroundings (which is an important thing to do while in lightsaber combat as is) and that he doesn't need to project anywhere when his natural senses should easily encompass the span of several hundred meters.

So no, I'm failing to see how to be fully effective in lightsaber combat, Vader has to employ tunnel vision.

I think you're lying to be completely honest.

When he faced Ezra he only bothered talking to him because he was confident in his ability to dispatch Ezra and take the holocron. Like many Sith including Maul Vader suffers from overconfidence.

*Shrug* Say he didn't. As I mentioned he's still not going to want to wait for Maul or someone else who might have knowledge on how to use it to make their way up to Ezra.

Evidence? When have we been shown that Vader's standard senses are projected hundreds of meters in canon?

Because he's still going to have to be monitoring things occurring outside of the fight.

Originally posted by Selenial
Well, since he's talking strictly stamina, it basically is. I don't know who the **** you think Vader is, but he's not exactly going to let Marek take a quick five to grab a glass of water and breathe. Nor is he the kind of person to go easy on Marek, you train by being beaten, Vader would push him to his limits for the full duration. Syndicate wasn't talking strictly stamina, he was using that sparring match as evidence Galen is better than Ahsoka period. Vader was never going all out on him, and regardless if Vader was "pushing him to his limits" we have no idea what limits those were. I'm quite aware that it's a very impressive stamina feat, though.

Originally posted by Selenial
Furthermore, I don't see why everyone's placing Marek below Ahsoka in blade work. This guy's mastered three seperate forms of Lightsaber combat by this point, Soresu being one of them. His defense was good enough to hold back a fully trained Juyo master, which is supposedly the hardest form to defend against and requiring many other forms mastered to even learn... His fights with Ti and Paratus should be taken into account too. All he did was refine his force techniques and his adaptability, so it's not like he improved so dramatically that his fights with them are out of early-Galen's reach. And Ahsoka has fought evenly with a far superior Juyo master in Maul, and at one point in the duel advances on him and pushes him back, albeit briefly. I know what you're going to say to that, but the fact that Ahsoka was capable of pushing back an incredibly offensive fighter back speaks volumes to her own offensive potency, even if it was brief. Marek mastering three forms is cool I guess but in terms of pure combative effectiveness and feats Ahsoka simply outstrips him.

What about Marek's performances against Kazdan or Ti put him above or near Ahsoka as a duelist, lol? He wasn't really doing too well in either cases.

Also, you say Galen hasn't improved much between Kota and Ti, but Vader seems to disagree, because he goes from stating he doesn't think Marek will survive Kazdan, then he says how Kazdan and Kota were plebs and Marek needs to face a true Jedi Master in Shaak Ti. I'm sure there was some decent amounts of improvement...

Originally posted by Selenial
Y'all mother****ers using Kota vs Vader as an example, forgetting that he was blind and had fallen kilometres off a space station, hardly in his prime. Why would him being blind (and did his fall actually cause lasting injuries?) make him more susceptible to getting butt****ed by Vader's telekinesis?

Originally posted by Selenial
I don't see how Ahsoka's making it through Galen's defences before being shat on in the force... I don't know, gurl. She's a much superior duelist than he and powerful enough to not get 'shat on' in the Force, so I think she'll take his lily white ass to the curb. Ahsoka will succeed where Shaak Ti miserably failed.

Originally posted by Syndicate
I think you're lying to be completely honest.LMAO. Don't assume my world revolves around you dear. ...And yet he has an even longer exchange with Ahsoka, guess he didn't believe her a threat either right?Right, point being that we've no reason to assume Vader believed it was about to fire, heck we can't even claim Vader knew how it worked.I needn't even provide any considering Maul sensed the presence of ships dropping out of hyperspace over Dathomir, and indeed sensed Vader's arrival on Malachor. It's common sense.

Regardless the fact that he effortless Force choked someone radioing him from orbit i.e. from thousands of kilometers away, proves that his perceptions well exceed a few hundred meters.Which he can do without any need to project and therefore without any detriment to his abilities.

I don't assume your world does. Just that a singular thread you made at a time when I was getting Ahsoka does. :P

Maybe not one that would inconvenience him as much as she actually did.

Granted, though he does seem to have some familiarity with the Sith Temple as we see in his conversation with Ezra. The weapon however looks like its charging up to me. Strange flashing lights being emitted and what not.

Was Maul engaged in battle or otherwise occupied when he sensed this? Also the example you provided is Vader focusing specifically on the person he's radioing with no other distractions.

Let me give you an example. Vader senses all force users in the surrounding area. Maul, Kanan, Ezra and of course Ahsoka. He knows where they are but currently most of his focus is on the fight with Ahsoka. Don't you think he's going to have to keep tabs on these other force users during the fight which would take away some of his focus in his fight with Ahsoka? Granted Ahsoka would have to do the same in regards to Maul.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Maybe not one that would inconvenience him as much as she actually did.OK, but assumptions aside nothing implicit or explicit suggests he was in a hurry to receive the holocron, merely that he wanted it.OK, but what it looks like to you isn't really relevant.Nope, but then he sensed something from infinitely further than the distances were discussing, and Vader is significantly more powerful than him.

The same goes for the second example, he was hundreds of thousands of kilometer away.No. As I said before it would be a rookie error to give undue concentration (bar simple awareness of his surroundings) to the environment when he is engaging a lethal adversary and when it would serve no purpose, as its not as if he can do anything while Ahsoka has him occupied. Focusing on events elsewhere only extending that period of occupation.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK, but assumptions aside nothing implicit or explicit suggests he was in a hurry to receive the holocron, merely that he wanted it.OK, but what it looks like to you isn't really relevant.Nope, but then he sensed something from infinitely further than the distances were discussing, and Vader is significantly more powerful than him.

The same goes for the second example, he was hundreds of thousands of kilometer away.No. As I said before it would be a rookie error to give undue concentration (bar simple awareness of his surroundings) to the environment when he is engaging a lethal adversary and when it would serve no purpose, as its not as if he can do anything while Ahsoka has him occupied. Focusing on events elsewhere only extending that period of occupation.

If you don't think that that's alright with me. I hold a different opinion however considering his mission was to retrieve it and it was powering up over his head.

It probably looked like that to Vader as well. Even if he didn't think Ezra could use it why take the risk?

Distance doesn't get rid of the attention you have to direct at the thing you're sensing.

"undue concentration" And that's what I'm saying. I'm not suggesting Vader would be actively keeping tags on all the people in the surrounding vicinity just that he'd be turning some of his attention to them. Ahsoka would likely do the same with Maul. You don't think this is likely?

Originally posted by Syndicate
If you don't think that that's alright with me. I hold a different opinion however considering his mission was to retrieve it and it was powering up over his head.But it wasn't, so your opinion is wrong. Until you substantiate your opinion with actual proof, I have no reason to care.Maul wasn't directing his attention at anything in either of those examples. And obviously ones perceptions will be stronger at closer range.Yes, but not enough to detriment his combat abilities, which would be again be both a rookiee error and counter intuitive.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
But it wasn't, so your opinion is wrong. Until you substantiate your opinion with actual proof, I have no reason to care.Maul wasn't directing his attention at anything in either of those examples. And obviously ones perceptions will be stronger at closer range.Yes, but not enough to detriment his combat abilities, which would be again be both a rookiee error and counter intuitive.

Well it actually was considering it just needed commands to be inputted for it to be used.

Fair enough. If you want to hold a different one that's fine. I was simply explaining why I believe what I believe.

Maul became aware of the ships presence upon it coming out of hyperspace thus it took up a part of his attention for that moment. If he chose to actively ignore it or continue to focus attention on it afterwards that was his choice.

But you admit that it would have been a factor for both combatants?

Originally posted by Syndicate
Maul became aware of the ships presence upon it coming out of hyperspace thus it took up a part of his attention for that moment. If he chose to actively ignore it or continue to focus attention on it afterwards that was his choice.OK.No more so than any other combat related scenario, where is important to remain aware of your surroundings and avoid tunnel vision.

If anything the fact Ahsoka was able to duel evenly with a stronger opponent than her yet still remain aware of what was going on at the temple's apex demonstrates any impact would have been negligible.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
OK.No more so than any other combat related scenario, where is important to remain aware of your surroundings and avoid tunnel vision.

If anything the fact Ahsoka was able to duel evenly with a stronger opponent than her yet still remain aware of what was going on at the temple's apex demonstrates any impact would have been negligible.

"yet still remain aware of what was going on at the temple's apex"

What do you mean by this?

That she was aware of where Ezra was and perhaps/probably sensed Vader's arrival.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That she was aware of where Ezra was and perhaps/probably sensed Vader's arrival.

When did she shown awareness of Ezra's location during the fight with Vader? Granted she knew where he was beforehand but why would she have given attention to his position after the fact when she's fighting Vader?

I'm talking about her fight with Maul.

... I was talking about her fight with Vader.

Maul isn't in the same tier as Vader.

:facepalm:

My point is it sets a precedent for a duelist to be able to contend with no detriment to their ability and still remain aware of their surroundings. Bearing in mind that Vader would have had a much easier time with Ahsoka than she did Maul.

You being the one who brought up Ahsoka vs. Maul in the first place.

It doesn't mean there wouldn't be a detriment to their ability. Maul still has to keep track of Kanana/Ezra and Vader. And Ahsoka has to do the same for Vader and as shown, Ezra.

Quote me when I brought it up.

Goodness. Not even going to get into that.

Then don't.