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What are your opinuons of the below page?
https://www.change.org/p/warner-bros-boot-zack-snyder-off-of-justice-league

I'm on board. Snyder needs the boot.

Wb will just replace him with someone worse.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Wb will just replace him with someone worse.

While I understand your concern, I highly doubt anyone could do a worse job representing Superman than Snyder did. Supes was basically as charismatic as a cadaver. Also, Batman's character was pretty stupid. He never came across as a brilliant detective...everyone was outsmarting him. He came across as a hypocritical douche....but hey, He was awesome in those fight scenes!


Point is, Snyder did a terrible job representing the CHARACTERS, which is the most important aspect of comic book movies imo.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb


While I understand your concern, I highly doubt anyone could do a worse job representing Superman than Snyder did. Supes was basically as charismatic as a cadaver. Also, Batman's character was pretty stupid. He never came across as a brilliant detective...everyone was outsmarting him. He came across as a hypocritical douche....but hey, He was awesome in those fight scenes!


Point is, Snyder did a terrible job representing the CHARACTERS, which is the most important aspect of comic book movies imo.

As long as WB is in charge to the extent they are, I don't trust them to hire anyone to do a better job. BvS did get some things right, which might be too much for whoever they bring in. Snyder still did MoS too, which, even with its problems, does have its high points.

Take the power away from Snyder, sure, but don't give it to someone at WB.

To be honest even Nolan's Batman did detective work in each film. He was always a step ahead of the police detectives. Burton's Batman as well.

I thought the point of getting rid of the Bale/Nolan Batman was to give a truer representation of the character?

Originally posted by -Pr-
As long as WB is in charge to the extent they are, I don't trust them to hire anyone to do a better job. BvS did get some things right, which might be too much for whoever they bring in. Snyder still did MoS too, which, even with its problems, does have its high points.

Take the power away from Snyder, sure, but don't give it to someone at WB. What if they get Matthew Vaughn? I heard that suggestion and I like it. Thoughts?

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
What if they get Matthew Vaughn? I heard that suggestion and I like it. Thoughts?

I like Vaughn, and I like what he did with First Class. But I don't consider it anything close to a superb X-Men movie; just the most acceptable of a mostly bad bunch.

I'd still want someone from DC to have more input.

What if they get Uwe Boll? There are directors much worse than Snyder out there?
If they want to give it a try they can ask Michael Bay though. He's been improving from the trainwreck Transformers to TMNT. He's the reason many of the shitty concepts in TMNT were thrown out. Maybe this would be a good training ground?

Originally posted by -Pr-
I like Vaughn, and I like what he did with First Class. But I don't consider it anything close to a superb X-Men movie; just the most acceptable of a mostly bad bunch.

I'd still want someone from DC to have more input. Well, First Class SAVED the X franchise.

Kick-Ass and Kingsmen were both highly received as well. I think I'd trust him to do a better job than Snyder at least. I suppose they might be able to find someone better but honestly, Vaughn is my pick. As far as picking someone from DC? Johns could always oversee things....and quite honestly, I'd trust Vaughn to represent the characters better than Snyder did....course that's not saying much.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Well, First Class SAVED the X franchise.

Kick-Ass and Kingsmen were both highly received as well. I think I'd trust him to do a better job than Snyder at least. I suppose they might be able to find someone better but honestly, Vaughn is my pick. As far as picking someone from DC? Johns could always oversee things....and quite honestly, I'd trust Vaughn to represent the characters better than Snyder did....course that's not saying much.

I wouldn't be so sure, but I think Snyder leans on the script far more than someone like Vaughn does.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Wb will just replace him with someone worse.

Sad truth.

I think they should give Johns a higher ranking role when it comes to the movies.

Perhaps the Feige of DC movies. They need a producer who gets DC characters and knows a lot about the comic book plots, to oversee a Shared Movie Universe IMO.

I don't think WB give a shit, tbh. And they won't unless BvS falls even further below projections.

I initially just gave this a passing glance, so read it as "Petition made to shoot Snyder".

Just give DC their own movie studio. It's common sense at this point. I mean look at Disney with Marvel and Star Wars. They give the studios some money & instructions but basically leave Marvel and Lucasfilm to it.

I wish they would, but WB has always liked keeping its talons in DC.

^ But why can't they see that's not working out for them. Then look at what is working for the competition. Like I said, at this point it seems like common sense.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ But why can't they see that's not working out for them. Then look at what is working for the competition. Like I said, at this point it seems like common sense.

Because WB is so phenomenally successful each year that it would take an absolute disaster to make them change their minds. They'd always believed they knew best, and it's made them money in the past.

I, if I'm being honest, really don't like the direction they've taken with the movies. I don't want a Marvel "Saturday morning cartoon" thing either, but something in the middle between that and what we've been getting so far would be ideal imo.

Higher the person who directed the mask movie
Mask 2

Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't want a Marvel "Saturday morning cartoon" thing either, Comon now, "Saturday morning cartoon"? Winter Soldier, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man etc would have words with you.


I think the humor has really hurt several Marvel movies (Iron Man 3, Thor 2, AoU) but let's not exaggerate. I agree though, the reason Winter Soldier was my favorite Marvel movie is because they NAILED Cap's fighting abilities and the story/tone was fantastic. Also, Bucky as Winter Soldier was pure amazing to watch... It looks like Civil War is going to be more in line with Winter Soldier's tone so that's a good trend; especially considering Avengers 3 + 4 are going to be done by the Russo Brothers too.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Comon now, "Saturday morning cartoon"? Winter Soldier, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man etc would have words with you.


I think the humor has really hurt several Marvel movies (Iron Man 3, Thor 2, AoU) but let's not exaggerate. I agree though, the reason Winter Soldier was my favorite Marvel movie is because they NAILED Cap's fighting abilities and the story/tone was fantastic. Also, Bucky as Winter Soldier was pure amazing to watch... It looks like Civil War is going to be more in line with Winter Soldier's tone so that's a good trend; especially considering Avengers 3 + 4 are going to be done by the Russo Brothers too.

Winter Soldier is the only one I'd take as the exception.

In general, Marvel's movies, even as good as they've been, have been very "safe" movies. Iron Man, Hulk etc, are the same. They won't touch anything too dark or mature for fear that they might not reach as wide and as common an audience.

Likening them to cartoons isn't really an insult. I love something like Young Justice for example. But there's only so far they'll go (like them not willing to touch on Tony's alcoholism), and I would hope that WB/DC would push the envelope a bit more than that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Winter Soldier is the only one I'd take as the exception.

In general, Marvel's movies, even as good as they've been, have been very "safe" movies. Iron Man, Hulk etc, are the same. They won't touch anything too dark or mature for fear that they might not reach as wide and as common an audience.

Likening them to cartoons isn't really an insult. I love something like Young Justice for example. But there's only so far they'll go (like them not willing to touch on Tony's alcoholism), and I would hope that WB/DC would push the envelope a bit more than that. I disagree in regards to TIH and IM1. Also, Marvel is moving in a more serious tone thankfully, now that Whedon is gone.

Russos are bringing that perfect mix of Dark and Light. DC and Marvel should both look at the Russos and try to accomplish that kind of tone. Main reason I'm super stoked for Civil War.

HACK SNYDER needs to go, that being said, WB is too stupid to listen so what THEY SHOULD do is hire another producer and give that person more power as they strip Hack of his power

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
I disagree in regards to TIH and IM1. Also, Marvel is moving in a more serious tone thankfully, now that Whedon is gone.

Russos are bringing that perfect mix of Dark and Light. DC and Marvel should both look at the Russos and try to accomplish that kind of tone. Main reason I'm super stoked for Civil War.

Guess we disagree then.

I do think the Russos do good work, but I don't think they're going to change Marvel in its entirety moving forward. Marvel at large has a mostly winning formula, and I don't expect them to deviate from it.

Like you though, I am psyched for Civil War.

Originally posted by -Pr-
But there's only so far they'll go (like them not willing to touch on Tony's alcoholism),


I was waiting for that in each IM sequel. Was surprised they never went there, as that was a classic IM story IMO, one that really made the Billionaire Playboy much more down to Earth and relatable. (Not that we're all alcoholics but we all have issues we try to ignore).

Plus they heavily hinted at it in IM1. And RDJ could have played that side of the character real well.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I was waiting for that in each IM sequel. Was surprised they never went there, as that was a classic IM story IMO, one that really made the Billionaire Playboy much more down to Earth and relatable. (Not that we're all alcoholics but we all have issues we try to ignore).

Plus they heavily hinted at it in IM1. And RDJ could have played that side of the character real well.

They wanted to, and even shot scenes for IM2 that referenced it, but Disney/Marvel shut them down.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guess we disagree then.

I do think the Russos do good work, but I don't think they're going to change Marvel in its entirety moving forward. Marvel at large has a mostly winning formula, and I don't expect them to deviate from it.

Like you though, I am psyched for Civil War. It's one thing to say Disney doesn't allow full on alcoholism, but that doesn't make it a cartoon.

Iron Man 1 had plenty of adult themes; like the morality of arms dealing and the effect it has on the world. Also, his alcoholism was referenced; it just didn't have a giant neon sign hanging around his neck that said "Alcoholic". All the violence in the film too....so many people got absolutely murdered in IM1. It was certainly not cartoonish. Yes, it was funny at times, but it had just the right amount. There are more cartoon like Marvel films like GoTG and Ant-Man, but I'm tired of people trying to lable Marvel movies as "Kids" movies.


They are for all ages. And again, The Russos ARE moving at least THEIR films in the more mature tone of WS. Seeing as they have Civil War and both Infinity War movies....I'm totally hyped about that.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
It's one thing to say Disney doesn't allow full on alcoholism, but that doesn't make it a cartoon.

Iron Man 1 had plenty of adult themes; like the morality of arms dealing and the effect it has on the world. Also, his alcoholism was referenced; it just didn't have a giant neon sign hanging around his neck that said "Alcoholic". All the violence in the film too....so many people got absolutely murdered in IM1. It was certainly not cartoonish. Yes, it was funny at times, but it had just the right amount. There are more cartoon like Marvel films like GoTG and Ant-Man, but I'm tired of people trying to lable Marvel movies as "Kids" movies.


They are for all ages. And again, The Russos ARE moving at least THEIR films in the more mature tone of WS. Seeing as they have Civil War and both Infinity War movies....I'm totally hyped about that.

I'm using cartoon as an example, not a knock against it in the slightest. I never said they were kids movies either.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm using cartoon as an example, not a knock against it in the slightest. I never said they were kids movies either. True, you haven't.


Getting back on topic though........

Snyder needs to go.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
True, you haven't.


Getting back on topic though........

Snyder needs to go.

Agreed, but only if a DC guy like Johns is given some real power.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Agreed, but only if a DC guy like Johns is given some real power.
Maybe it just needs to have a talented guy, not a DC guy. Justice League maybe needs to be just a good movie rather than a good comic book movie.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe it just needs to have a talented guy, not a DC guy. Justice League maybe needs to be just a good movie rather than a good comic book movie.

TBH, that's not good enough for me. Maybe it is for others, but after the X-Men movies, no thanks.

Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe it just needs to have a talented guy, not a DC guy. Justice League maybe needs to be just a good movie rather than a good comic book movie.

Have you not heard the complaints about how the characters are not portrayed correctly for this and for BvS?

People have their pre-conceived notions about these characters, so it's difficult for someone new to take them in their own direction just to make a good film.

That's where "Icons" as Quanchi puts it, can be more difficult to get "right" and can easily be polarising.


IMO They should get talented directors who have their vision, but they should have a DC guy (or group) watching over them and controlling the overall direction of the DCEU. That's what's working so well for Marvel and Star Wars.

To be honest, Batman and Superman shouldn't be hard to get right. Really. You can add all the depth you want, but they should always boil down to the universal themes that they've had for years:

Batman: Broody, doesn't play well with others, but secretly cares about the people around him. Smartest guy in the room.

Superman: Super nice. Boyscout. Saves cats from trees and always has a smile on his face. Just don't make him mad or you get the world of cardboard moment.

And you can even go to the Justice League if you want:

Wonder Woman: Regal, elegant, a warrior princess.

Aquaman: Solitary, broody king-type that lives between two words. Similar to wonder woman warrior wise. An outsider.

And so on. That's one thing the Marvel movies got right for the most part: The spirit of the characters even if they aren't 1:1 translations of the comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Aquaman: Solitary, broody king-type that lives between two words. Similar to wonder woman warrior wise. An outsider.


Talks to the fish, loves to throw starfish at people and is a big fan of seahorse riding, don't forget.

Also, bedded a halibut once.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That's one of the things Marvel movies got right for the most part: The spirit of the characters even if they aren't 1:1 translations of the comics. Yep, the main reason I was so disappointed with BvS. Hopefully they'll right the ship going forward...otherwise they're gonna sink.

Originally posted by -Pr-


Superman: Super nice. Boyscout. Saves cats from trees and always has a smile on his face.

F*ck this. That's the Superman I borderline disliked for the first 23 years of my life. A one-dimensional, boring, morally omniscient dope who is locked into being a beacon of sunshine no matter the situation. Such a character is truly alien.

Cavill Superman is a far more relatable, grounded, and believable interpretation than Superman of yesteryear. If Superman was real he would have very little to smile about. People would to want kill him, control him, make him leave, or make him their god. Cavill portayed a HUMAN reaction to all of these viewpoints: outside of banging his girlfriend and saving little girls from fires the world kind of sucks, but he will still fight to protect it.

So you and your ilk can pine for the flag waving boy scout that was invented in the 50s, I will continue to enjoy the science fiction action hero he was originally designed to be with a 21st century twist.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Talks to the fish, loves to throw starfish at people and is a big fan of seahorse riding, don't forget.

Also, bedded a halibut once.

One time!

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yep, the main reason I was so disappointed with BvS. Hopefully they'll right the ship going forward...otherwise they're gonna sink.

Aye.

Originally posted by TheGrat1
F*ck this. That's the Superman I borderline disliked for the first 23 years of my life. A one-dimensional, boring, morally omniscient dope who is locked into being a beacon of sunshine no matter the situation. Such a character is truly alien.

Cavill Superman is a far more relatable, grounded, and believable interpretation than Superman of yesteryear. If Superman was real he would have very little to smile about. People would to want kill him, control him, make him leave, or make him their god. Cavill portayed a HUMAN reaction to all of these viewpoints: outside of banging his girlfriend and saving little girls from fires the world kind of sucks, but he will still fight to protect it.

So you and your ilk can pine for the flag waving boy scout that was invented in the 50s, I will continue to enjoy the science fiction action hero he was originally designed to be with a 21st century twist.

Nobody said he had to be one-dimensional and boring. Being pleasant and polite doesn't make a person lack anything else bar a scowl.

Nice of you to twist what I was saying so utterly and completely though.

You're right, he wouldn't be one-dimensional he would be two-dimensional. Either smiling all the time or mad giving "World of cardboard" speeches. Such a compelling character. And I don't know about you, but getting the same character we've had since the 1970s does sound boring to me.

But hey let's apply these ideas to BvS. Should Kal-El be smiling while Lex tells him to go kill Batman? How about when he throws pictures of his tied up mother at him? Or is that when he goes: "You know what Lex? I live in a world of cardboard..." Or does he reach into his bag of boy scout tricks and tie Lex up with a sheepshank knot?

And was he not polite? Did he not calmly surrender to the military and Zod. Did he not show up for the senate hearing when he was asked to? He tried to have a cordial conversation with Bruce Wayne. And he also calmly but determinedly, tried to push the Gotham dock stories past Perry despite being shut down at every turn. By saying "pleasant and polite" you make it seem like he was bad Superman from Superman 3. I've already stated I can't expect a realistic person to be any more pleasant given his circumstances. Honestly, if the average mf was given Superman's abilities on Monday we would all probably be kneeling before them on Thursday.

Let's be real here. You are not asking for Cavill to say please and thank you more often. You yourself said always having a smile on his face. You want somethibg close to Reeve Superman. And there is nothing wrong with that version, it just wouldn't fly today.

That sounds a tad like a strawman, tbh. I wrote two to three lines. A broad outline of the character, and you're applying it to specifics.

I don't want Reeve Superman. At all.

Yep, I don't want Reevesman. But I do want Superman. Whatever we got in BvS sure wasn't superman.

I dont know if this is the right place to post this but...

Holy shit some people around the web on various sites are dong heavy damage control on BvS. Like posting paragraph upon paragraph explaining all the deeper meanings and workings of this movie. They are trying to convince everyone that there is tons of inner meaning that flew over everyone head. And if "we" the audience wernt so shallow and dumb we would have enjoyed this masterpiece of a movie.

This reminds me of those paintings those hipster edgy artists make.
They take a white canvas then lets say they put paint on his cat , blind folds himself and uses the cat as a paint brush.
The painting looks like a random mess.
But art enthusiasts will stare at it for a while and say it symbolizes inner struggle and the artists soul reaching a new horizon, shedding away his inner demons, etc.

When in fact its just some stupid ****ing brush strokes done with a cat while the idiot was on meth or some shit.

This is exactly what this type of BvS damage control signifies.
The only deep concepts Snyder knows is forcing religions undertones in whatever he can.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yep, I don't want Reevesman. But I do want Superman. Whatever we got in BvS sure wasn't superman.

Originally posted by -Pr-
That sounds a tad like a strawman, tbh. I wrote two to three lines. A broad outline of the character, and you're applying it to specifics.

I don't want Reeve Superman. At all.

Then elaborate and enlighten me. As you said I only have what you wrote to go on and it sounded a lot like Reeveman to me. Going back and reading the thread it seems you don't really hate Snyder and the job he has done, you just believe that there is room for improvement. I plan on seeing all of these films so I want them all to be as good as they possibly can be, and I certainly do not believe the job they have done is beyond reproach.

This is an open invitation to anyone in the thread by the way. I am curious to hear how you would get Superman "right". Let BvS be the starting point. It is 16 months after Metropolis, what does your boy do on the daily?

I really liked Morrison's Superman in the nu52. He wasn't a boy-scout, was ruthless, and rather bad ass but was still very heroic and very "Superman".

The only Superman-centric stories I have read are Superman: Earth One volumes 1-3 and Kingdom Come. MoS was heavily influenced by Earth One and KC Supes operated in shades of gray. Both excellent stories, and both Supermen we're pretty far from how I usually hear detractors of Cavillman wanting the character to be portrayed.

KC's Superman is very different than Cavillman. But I do love KC Superman, wouldn't mind seeing more influence from him. Anyway, my problem with Cavillman is he's just so damn bland. I also want Superman to enjoy "super heroing" and to smile from time to time.

An idealistic and positive Superman who's also vulnerable and somewhat naive

Vs.

A fiercely intelligent and ruthless Batman who's righteous but somewhat jaded

THOSE are the characterizations most people would love to see IMO because the interplay and interactions between them would be fascinating

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Yep, I don't want Reevesman. But I do want Superman. Whatever we got in BvS sure wasn't superman.


that's the superman we needed not the one we deserve

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
I disagree in regards to TIH and IM1. Also, Marvel is moving in a more serious tone thankfully, now that Whedon is gone.

Russos are bringing that perfect mix of Dark and Light. DC and Marvel should both look at the Russos and try to accomplish that kind of tone. Main reason I'm super stoked for Civil War.

Whedon's Avengers is better than any Phase 2 movie, including Winter Soldier oand GOTG.

Originally posted by Inhuman
I dont know if this is the right place to post this but...

Holy shit some people around the web on various sites are dong heavy damage control on BvS. Like posting paragraph upon paragraph explaining all the deeper meanings and workings of this movie. They are trying to convince everyone that there is tons of inner meaning that flew over everyone head. And if "we" the audience wernt so shallow and dumb we would have enjoyed this masterpiece of a movie.

This reminds me of those paintings those hipster edgy artists make.
They take a white canvas then lets say they put paint on his cat , blind folds himself and uses the cat as a paint brush.
The painting looks like a random mess.
But art enthusiasts will stare at it for a while and say it symbolizes inner struggle and the artists soul reaching a new horizon, shedding away his inner demons, etc.

When in fact its just some stupid ****ing brush strokes done with a cat while the idiot was on meth or some shit.

This is exactly what this type of BvS damage control signifies.
The only deep concepts Snyder knows is forcing religions undertones in whatever he can.


People who constantly need to prove how "mature" and "deep" they are are the most juvenile ones of all. BvS had no depth whatsoever.

Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Whedon's Avengers is better than any Phase 2 movie, including Winter Soldier oand GOTG. While I don't agree with your opinion, Avengers 1 is a great movie. I'd still take Winter Soldier over it though. Just my taste, I enjoy a little less humor and a little more seriousness.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
While I don't agree with your opinion, Avengers 1 is a great movie. I'd still take Winter Soldier over it though. Just my taste, I enjoy a little less humor and a little more seriousness.

Fair enough. We're quibbling over what are both great movies. Winter Soldier was awesome.

I think that universes where some parts are silly or whimsical like Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy and other parts are more grounded like WS or the Netflix shows make for a more complex universe than one that is grimdark all the time like the DC Murderverse.

Well they've apparently already started filming JL, so the petition seems to have failed.


Strange as well given BvS hasn't even hit $800million yet.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well they've apparently already started filming JL, so the petition seems to have failed.


Strange as well given BvS hasn't even hit $800million yet. You liked it so why do you care ?

Originally posted by Inhuman
I dont know if this is the right place to post this but...

Holy shit some people around the web on various sites are dong heavy damage control on BvS. Like posting paragraph upon paragraph explaining all the deeper meanings and workings of this movie. They are trying to convince everyone that there is tons of inner meaning that flew over everyone head. And if "we" the audience wernt so shallow and dumb we would have enjoyed this masterpiece of a movie.

This reminds me of those paintings those hipster edgy artists make.
They take a white canvas then lets say they put paint on his cat , blind folds himself and uses the cat as a paint brush.
The painting looks like a random mess.
But art enthusiasts will stare at it for a while and say it symbolizes inner struggle and the artists soul reaching a new horizon, shedding away his inner demons, etc.

When in fact its just some stupid ****ing brush strokes done with a cat while the idiot was on meth or some shit.

This is exactly what this type of BvS damage control signifies.
The only deep concepts Snyder knows is forcing religions undertones in whatever he can.

Like this you mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IdckKLhIN-E
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=32628911

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Like this you mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IdckKLhIN-E
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=32628911

Yes. Especially in forums and blogs.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well they've apparently already started filming JL, so the petition seems to have failed.


Strange as well given BvS hasn't even hit $800million yet.


well they don't wanna look even more foolish right now... I won't be at all surprised if they fire Hack after the numbers for Civil War are known...


anyways what about Greg Berlanti being there "Feige"?

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker



anyways what about Greg Berlanti being there "Feige"?

Is that in the cards?