Originally posted by The Ellimist
No, you were responding to the part of my quote where I called you out on wanking over fluffy adjectives to the point of sounding like a walking parody - and you responded by wanking to more meaningless adjectives. It's like you don't register things that people make as arguments.
Damn! You are telling me that I don't maintain track of my arguments?
My original response:
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How is Vitiate (as of Revan) overrated? He is really powerful at that time.
He killed 9 members of the Dark Council some hours before his confrontation with Revan. When the latter found out about this, he found it difficult to digest for a while. However, Revan had to try...
Novel also reveals that Vitiate was more likely to defeat Revan and his allies then the other way round.
I'd say he will approach Luke Skywalker.
was intended for your original statement:
Originally posted by The Ellimist
IMHO he's ridiculously overrated.
In my original post; I have pointed out a fact that Vitiate was immensely powerful during the era of Revan. To lend credibility to this assertion, I provided some reasons (additional facts) below it. No rocket-science here.
However, your response was to break my argument into different bits and respond to each bit separately; unfortunately, you lost track of my argument in this manner and now you are accusing me of sticking to adjectives and not following my own argument?
My advice to you is that you should read the entire response first and then respond to it. In this manner, you can avoid confusion.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
They were both one-off mysterious events that are never replicated whenever Vitiate is not prepared or he's facing characters with feats.
If you actually think Vitiate could pull this against Vader or Palpatine, when didn't he use it to insta-kill Scourge and Meetra?
Again! What kind of 'preparation' was involved in those mysterious developments? Did Vitiate hire some Force-users to use Battle Meditation to fuel his power during those moments? You need to prove these assertions, if you are making them in the first place (basic debating rule, my friend).
Look at this showing: https://i.imgur.com/15dEtT9.webm
Doesn't it tells you something?
Those Knights of Zakuul had successfully cornered the Outlander and his allies including powerful Lana Beniko and Senya; those Knights might have slaughtered the entire group but Valkorion intervened.
Characters having some feats are not necessarily special. Some are given more attention then the others for storytelling purpose because developers do not have unlimited time and resources at their disposal to explore each and every character out there. Also, read my analogy before:
ANALOGY: Jedi Master Orgus Din had impressive Force abilities and considerable experience in combat but he eventually met his match in Darth Angral. The latter Sith wasn't a frontline warrior and doesn't have (individualistic) showings on par with the Jedi Master in question but we witness him killing Din on-screen.
My point is that you have to focus on more then some feats to assess the power of a character. Every bit of information/assessing tactic is useful such as accolades, power-scaling, feats and others.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
That doesn't change the fact that he enslaved and drew energy from them, .ie, a far greater feat than anything Revan's done.
Siphoning life-force of willing hosts is much easier then doing the same with unwilling hosts.
Revan (Reborn) wasn't a Sith Lord; he had ample knowledge of Force Drain powers but he used them only in dire situations but not to harm others. He was certainly capable of grand showings nonetheless:
Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle... Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence.
From Chronicles of the Old Republic
Originally posted by The Ellimist
There's no reason to believe that Sidious is lying to himself, when was already in the process of creating Force storms.
Palpatine is a Sith; lying and manipulating others is part of his nature.
Anyways, I do not doubt Palpatine's ability to pull it off but I maintain my point-of-view that it would take more then a mere thought. Affecting the external environment with telekinetic powers is different from affecting the external environment with some other power. Palpatine may find it much easier to destroy a building with a Force Storm then with his telekinetic powers.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
To Vitiate, probably. Not to Palpatine.
See above.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Face it; Palpatine has Revan outclassed in pretty much every category. He has better lightsaber feats, better speed feats, better destructive feats, better sorcery feats and better TP feats. There's just no way Revan is lasting more than 15 seconds against him by feats, accolades, powerscaling, or anything, really.
Palpatine > Revan (point-of-view) is not at dispute here. However, underestimating Revan is not wise either.
I'd say that Revan will challenge Palpatine as much as Yoda could, if not better. Revan have his own set of talents that grant him advantage in combat situations such as his mindset, ability to wield both Light and Dark Sides, formidable defensive abilities and esoteric powers such as Teleportation.
Revan doesn't needs to match Palpatine pound-for-pound in the context of feats to challenge him.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So were the Jedi Palpatine one-shotted.
One-shotting is not the right choice of term here! Blitzing is. A lightsaber would kill any humaniod with a single well-executed hit.
And those Jedi Masters weren't peers of Revan in raw power; they were renowned for their dueling skills, not their strength in the Force. Mace Windu was a legitimate powerhouse however and he handled Palpatine just fine.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You think these victories put him on Palpatine's level?
If anything, the fact that his fight against non-Force sensitive Mandalore was even a challenge is a mark against him.
One-shotting a powerful member of the Dark Council is definitely Palpatine-tier showing.
As for your remark regarding non-Force sensitive; you think that non-Force sensitive beings are mooks and cannot challenge Force-users?
Watch this:
SoSayqv1TVI
Specially the scene where Cad Bane and Obi-Wan fight ; here is a glimpse:
http://i63.tinypic.com/mwp99l.png
Underestimating non-Force sensitive beings is literally foolish. They form the backbone of the strength that defines an Empire and some of them are formidable enough to challenge even the most powerful Jedi.
Or you think that Obi-Wan was weakling?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Ooohh, he faced dozens of opponents at a time! ROFLAMO - Sidious when confronted with an attempted coup kills 50 stormtroopers with Force lightning.
Great for him.
Revan, during the events of Jedi Civil War, was in amnesic state and did not properly understand the depths of his powers at that time. CONTEXT, my friend.
Nonetheless! On the Star Forge; Revan destroyed an entire army of Star Forge battledroids initially (an accomplishment that impressed Darth Malak because these droids were specially designed to confront and defeat Force-users in general) and then cut a swath through the stationed Imperial forces comprising of elite troops and powerful Dark Jedi (dozens of them at times) to advance further. In the end, he defeated a well-prepared Darth Malak who had been drawing on the life-force of scores of Jedi captives to fuel his own to make sure that he will not tire out. Demonstrating such a consistent combat-prowess during amnesic state is not something to sneeze it; it is an accomplishment that only the most powerful Jedi in the galactic history was capable of.
Originally posted by The Ellimist
You can speculate about what he could do all you want, but the reality is that he has never demonstrated anything to put him on the level of Palpatine.
Really?
1. Projecting the Dark Side power of a nexus planet towards the Jedi stationed on the fleets in the space above to influence them?
2. Excellent combat performance on the Star Forge while being in amnesic state?
3. Easily defeating powerful Sith Lords in confrontations?
4. Cheating death through sheer force of will?
You are wrong.
It is true that we cannot compare Revan and Palpatine in each and every action and/or discipline, but we can compare them in certain areas (like I have done above) to draw conclusions from.