Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

TCW Maul/Savage
KOTOR Revan/Malak

Fight takes place on neutral ground

Good fight. I'll go with the Zabraks.

Malak gets shanked and Revan gets annihilated

I don't put Revan as highly as many people do, but I also put KotOR Revan (assuming it's the game's ending) very close to his prime. It can honestly go either way. While I put Savage superior overall to Malak, I think Malak has pretty much the perfect skillset to win despite that; most stuff Savage holds won't work on Malak. Strength-based style is a bad choice against him, and that's where's Malak better technical skill and experience comes into. Malak can defend against any power Savage throws at him, even if he is inferior within these areas, but he has his own extremely exotic techniques Savage never encountered, so Malak can quite honestly win.

Maul vs. Revan is immensely close, but there is a high chance Malak takes out Savage faster, which also increases the odds they will soon attack Maul in two, where he simply can't survive. Revan on his own has a good chance too.

Team 2 for a small majority.

Kek at Malak taking out Savage.

Hmm assumed it's SF amped Malak (without the Jedi techno-coffins). If not, then Malak falls, and Revan can't win 2v1.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kek at Malak taking out Savage.

Kek indeed. But, tbf, it'd be a good one.

Indeed. Malak has the physicals and skill to push Savage, but I have doubts about his power.

I see him pulling a few wins against Savage if he abuses his drain and FL, but otherwise he's not going to last very long

What is wrong with you people? Team 2.

Team 1.

Team 2 comfortably.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Kek at Malak taking out Savage.
A Sith wannabe is better then Darth Malak - the most powerful Sith of the Empire established by Darth Revan after latter's removal?

Well, Revan's Empire was full of Dark Jedi and corrupt Jedi that claimed to be Sith, so you can't really call Savage a wannabe.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A Sith wannabe is better then Darth Malak - the most powerful Sith of the Empire established by Darth Revan after latter's removal?
Inherently and in terms of realized ability, most probably.

What about Revan vs. Maul, ILS?

Originally posted by ILS
Inherently and in terms of realized ability, most probably.
This is ridiculous assumption.

Darth Malak is counted among the most powerful Sith in galactic history:

Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt.

Taken from Behind the Threat: The Sith

I don't touch Revan. My stance on him currently is that if half the shit Ant says about him does stand up to scrutiny, then whehey, he's great. If not, and I don't have the patience to be the one applying the scrutiny, then that's a shame for his fans.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is ridiculous assumption.

Darth Malak is counted among the most powerful Sith in galactic history:

Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt.

Taken from Behind the Threat: The Sith Okay? Plo Koon was accoladed as one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and Savage kicked his ass despite Plo being aided by a group of clone troopers.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Well, Revan's Empire was full of Dark Jedi and corrupt Jedi that claimed to be Sith, so you can't really call Savage a wannabe.
An Empire of weaklings would have never challenged the Jedi Order. There were powerful Sith in the Empire, though all have not been identified due to lack of need in the official story:

With legions of armored troopers spreading throughout the galaxy, all led by masters of the Force, the Sith Empire seems unstoppable.

Taken from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

Originally posted by ILS
Okay? Plo Koon was accoladed as one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and Savage kicked his ass despite Plo being aided by a group of clone troopers.
Details please.

Darth Malak >> Plo Koon by the way

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Details please.

Darth Malak >> Plo Koon by the way In The Sith Hunters comic book.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629193-1925290811-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629194-6620531772-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629195-3775890957-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629196-9216374468-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629197-7533365610-46252.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629198-1569926798-46252.jpg

They have equivalent accolades. Why else would Malak be far superior to Plo?

Because LeGenD said so.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because LeGenD said so. It occurred to Legend that the primary source of evidence for Malak being >> Savage is accolades. I wonder how he's going to reconcile the fact Malak has the same accolade as someone Savage whipped the ass of.

Malak wouldn't even be caught in the same era as that PT scrub.

Originally posted by ILS
In The Sith Hunters comic book.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629193-1925290811-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629194-6620531772-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629195-3775890957-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629196-9216374468-46253.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629197-7533365610-46252.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179633/4629198-1569926798-46252.jpg
Thanks for sharing.

I see both Darth Maul and Savage Opress there. It's difficult to determine how the events unfolded from these scans. They make it clear that the brothers defeated the Jedi, but to me - Darth Maul appears to be doing most work.

Originally posted by ILS
They have equivalent accolades. Why else would Malak be far superior to Plo?
Plo Koon could be at 200th position and still be counted among the strongest Jedi.

Darth Malak is counted among the "very best" of Sith. An opponent lesser then Revan could not defeat him.

It's not just the hype factor; Darth Malak became a master of the Dark Side and his powers and skills are more then enough for opponents like Savage Opress. Its a shame that we don't have novels written for Darth Malak and neither he have been depicted in big-budget mediums.

>an opponent lesser than Revan could not defeat him
> that's why Revan did it multiple times, while Malak was amped and after Revan went through an army and Bastila three times

I'd like to go through Bastila three times too.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for sharing.

I see both Darth Maul and Savage Opress there. It's difficult to determine how the events unfolded from these scans. They make it clear that the brothers defeated the Jedi, but to me - Darth Maul appears to be doing most work.




Maul never fought Koon.


Let's not forget Savage has also battered another Council Member in Adi Gallia, and also Ventress who is easily a match for most Council Members.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I'd like to go through Bastila three times too.
It's not nearly as satisfying as it sounds.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
>an opponent lesser than Revan could not defeat him
> that's why Revan did it multiple times, while Malak was amped and after Revan went through an army and Bastila three times
Author's perspective and official information carry more weight then your assumptions.

Confrontations between Revan and Darth Malak have always been described as being fierce, vicious and desperate irrespective of the setting and circumstances involved.

Revelations for confrontation on the Star Forge:

Revan then confronted Darth Malak himself in a fierce duel, but Revan prevailed and finally defeated Darth Malak.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

--

It is a period of uncertainty across the galaxy. After a long and vicious battle in the deepest area of the Star Forge, Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Revan succeeds in destroying his ex-apprentice Darth Malak. After recovering from the duel, Revan seeks out the secret dark outposts...

From Chronicles of the Old Republic

--

"...that battle would have been a brutal, hard fought affair spread over multiple pages." (Drew Karpyshyn)

--

Earlier battles were also hard fought and intense. Stopping Darth Malak was an extremely difficult task.

I like how none of that actually addressed my point.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I like how none of that actually addressed my point.
Not Jedi was powerful enough to stop Darth Malak with the exception of Revan. Do you disagree?

Maybe that's an indication of how weak the Jedi order of that era was.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not Jedi was powerful enough to stop Darth Malak with the exception of Revan. Do you disagree?
Sure. That still has **** all to do with anything I said.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sure. That still has **** all to do with anything I said.
How about you clarify your point instead of offering riddles?

A number of quotes depict the Jedi of the KotOR era as being in their prime. I'll direct you now to a number of quotes from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. To avoid the annoyance of typing out the quotes and making my post an absolute eyesore to read, I've taken the following scans from DarthAnt66's blog at the following link - http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/kotor-era-is-the-prime-of-the-jedi/95277/

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4576973-3375218548-39699.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4576974-2116841268-38299.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4576975-4365102923-38309.png

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for sharing.

I see both Darth Maul and Savage Opress there. It's difficult to determine how the events unfolded from these scans. They make it clear that the brothers defeated the Jedi, but to me - Darth Maul appears to be doing most work.Maul fought Bruu-Jun Fan and Ko Solok, Savage fought Plo Koon and clone troops. Two separate fights.
Not seeing your point. The phrasing in Malak's quote was that he was among the "most powerful" Sith, the phrasing in Koon's was "one of the most powerful Jedi ever". There's no difference in impressiveness.
According to you.
Plenty of people have been called "masters" of the Force, Savage included. I'm still not seeing your point.

You don't need to be as strong as Revan to defeat Malak. The point was obvious.

Originally posted by ILS
Maul fought Bruu-Jun Fan and Ko Solok, Savage fought Plo Koon and clone troops. Two separate fights.
Thanks for clarifying.

Well, Plo Koon sucks in canon then. Not impressed.

Originally posted by ILS
Not seeing your point. The phrasing in Malak's quote was that he was among the "most powerful" Sith, the phrasing in Koon's was "one of the most powerful Jedi ever". There's no difference in impressiveness.
Darth Malak was also the ruler of an Empire. He had to prove his mettle time and again to maintain his throne.

Plo Koon, being a Jedi, wouldn't be tested like an Emperor would be.

Originally posted by ILS
According to you.
If he was giving Revan migraines then how would a lesser Jedi cope with him?

Originally posted by ILS
Plenty of people have been called "masters" of the Force, Savage included. I'm still not seeing your point.
Which source recognizes Savage Opress as a master of the Force?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You don't need to be as strong as Revan to defeat Malak. The point was obvious.
OK

So who is the minimum needed to take on Darth Malak?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, Plo Koon sucks in canon then. Not impressed.It was in Legends. And no, Plo Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever. He factually doesn't suck.
Okay? Yoda didn't rule an Empire, is he worse than Malak now?
He lost his jaw to Darth Revan, and lost to Revan despite Revan running a massive gauntlet beforehand, Malak having a massive nexus to draw on and weaken Revan, and Malak having multiple Jedi to revive himself with. That doesn't preclude the possibility that there could be people better than Malak who are worse than Revan.
Here:


This was early into his training with Dooku, and before he even began training with Maul where he saw more refinement. This was also during a time period where Savage grew "more powerful with every passing day", to the point Dooku felt his power grow from across the galaxy and deemed him "a threat to us all". In other words, Savage has plenty of sources fellating how powerful he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/savage-opress-respect-thread-1683541/

Now, do you have some kind of conclusive or even fairly reasonable case for Malak being better than Savage? Other than accolades and unrelated accomplishments like ruling an empire?

ILS taking his enemy to the slaughterhouse.

Proud of you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
OK

So who is the minimum needed to take on Darth Malak?
Don't know. Probably someone like Savage Opress.

Originally posted by ILS
It was in Legends. And no, Plo Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever. He factually doesn't suck.
But his lack of performance in combat situations doesn't bodes well for him and his hype.

Originally posted by ILS
Okay? Yoda didn't rule an Empire, is he worse than Malak now?


Yoda is an exception; he have much greater credibility then Plo Koon.

Originally posted by ILS
He lost his jaw to Darth Revan, and lost to Revan despite Revan running a massive gauntlet beforehand, Malak having a massive nexus to draw on and weaken Revan, and Malak having multiple Jedi to revive himself with. That doesn't preclude the possibility that there could be people better than Malak who are worse than Revan.
So?

This still doesn't proves that somebody inferior then Revan could handle Darth Malak.

Originally posted by ILS
Here:
The word "crude" implies lack of refinement and development. It is a useless statement to cite.

Originally posted by ILS
This was early into his training with Dooku, and before he even began training with Maul where he saw more refinement. This was also during a time period where Savage grew "more powerful with every passing day", to the point Dooku felt his power grow from across the galaxy and deemed him "a threat to us all". In other words, Savage has plenty of sources fellating how powerful he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/savage-opress-respect-thread-1683541/
Good for him.

And these were his last words: "Brother, I am an unworthy apprentice. I'm not like you. I never was."

Originally posted by ILS
Now, do you have some kind of conclusive or even fairly reasonable case for Malak being better than Savage? Other than accolades and unrelated accomplishments like ruling an empire?
Yes.

- Freezing (powerful) Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi at the same time
- Repelling a lightsaber-throw attack
- Defeating Bastilla Shan
- Trapping Revan in a whirlwind of energy
- Freezing Revan
- Force Drain powers
- Force Lightning

Darth Malak also have excellent dueling skills.

Savage Opress doesn't have an answer for advanced Sith powers and neither does he stack up to an opponent as formidable as Darth Malak.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yes.

- Freezing Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi
- Trapping Revan in a whirlwind of energy
- Freezing Revan
- Force Drain powers
- Force Lightning
lel

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
lel
They are credible showings; meaningful in combat situations in particular.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Yoda is an exception; he have much greater credibility then Plo Koon.


A question, LeGend.

Why do you use 'have' instead of 'has' when it's so easily distinguishable and learned? Honest question.

What's your first language?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
A question, LeGend.

Why do you use 'have' instead of 'has' when it's so easily distinguishable and learned? Honest question.
My bad

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
What's your first language?
Urdu

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They are credible showings; meaningful in combat situations in particular.
They sure are. They also aren't impressive enough to place Malak above Savage.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They sure are. They also aren't impressive enough to place Malak above Savage.


Savage Opress never acquired such abilities.

Malak > Savage. He drains and lightnings him to death.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Freezing (powerful) Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi at the same time

A Padawan and a random, a Non-Force Sensitive random at that.

I think this goes without saying as being the definition of average for anyone worth mentioning.

Bastila is virtually featless until the string of losses she has at the end of this. She killed one random Dark Jedi, and that's pretty much it.

Which is just TK, something, frankly, Savage outclasses Malak in by miles.

The same amnesiac that doesn't remember anything more than a week of Jedi training.

None of which actually prove superiority in anything, unless you're also going to say that every random with Lighting and Drain is above Savage, and in that case, you could just concede to ILS now.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Urdu Are you Indian like DMB?

Originally posted by ILS
It was in Legends. And no, Plo Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever. He factually doesn't suck.
Okay? Yoda didn't rule an Empire, is he worse than Malak now?
He lost his jaw to Darth Revan, and lost to Revan despite Revan running a massive gauntlet beforehand, Malak having a massive nexus to draw on and weaken Revan, and Malak having multiple Jedi to revive himself with. That doesn't preclude the possibility that there could be people better than Malak who are worse than Revan.
Here:


This was early into his training with Dooku, and before he even began training with Maul where he saw more refinement. This was also during a time period where Savage grew "more powerful with every passing day", to the point Dooku felt his power grow from across the galaxy and deemed him "a threat to us all". In other words, Savage has plenty of sources fellating how powerful he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/savage-opress-respect-thread-1683541/

Now, do you have some kind of conclusive or even fairly reasonable case for Malak being better than Savage? Other than accolades and unrelated accomplishments like ruling an empire?

ILS be like
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3924385/cloves-death-o.gif

an Legend:
So are you saying accolades don't mean shit?
This is what you call double standards. Malak can't be better than one Jedi because he faced the tribulation of ruling an empire but not another. If you concede that it doesn't necessarily make Malak better than Yoda, you concede that it doesn't necessarily make him better than anyone, aside from those within that Empire at least.

And it doesn't, unless you can point what Plo Koon-tier beings Malak was superior to within his empire. And don't say Bandon you ****.
Why are you asking me for proof? It was your assertion that the gap between Revan and Malak is so small that there isn't one person who could fit in between it, despite the fact there's obviously quite a large gap given that Revan defeated Malak with horrific circumstances.
It suggests Savage's mastery is still raw and unrefined, not that the mastery isn't there. So he's still a master even if he's raw in his application. And like I said, he would go on to become much more refined when he trained under Maul; I'd refer you to him decapitating the entire leadership of the Black Sun with one lightsaber throw, stopping a knife millimetres from Maul's head (which Maul had full confidence in him to do), coordinating telekinetic attacks with Maul, and shattering the supposedly impenetrable metal Beskar which was fashioned into a prison cell, which should logically be Beskar in one of it's toughest moulds.
Okay? In what way does this prove Savage is weaker than Malak? You keep bringing up pieces of "evidence", to use the term loosely, that make no real link between Savage and Malak.
The only thing there that could possibly be relevant is Malak rekting Revan. What had Revan done up to that point to suggest parity to Savage, who as I said, has shattered Beskar? The same Savage who also before his prime held Dooku and Ventress by their throats against his their will (granted he was enraged, but he was well before his prime, and Ventress/Dooku combined >>> Malak).
Better than Savage's?
That remains to be proven. All you've done is list that Malak has Force Lightning and Drain. When has he successfully applied either power against someone even remotely comparable to Savage in a combat scenario?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
ILS be like
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3924385/cloves-death-o.gif

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Are you Indian like DMB?

Urdu's spoken in Pakistan

ILS is taking SWL to the curb.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Are you Indian like DMB? LMAO

Originally posted by Lord Stark
ILS be like
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/3924385/cloves-death-o.gif
Should have left the Malak wanking to Ant.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
A Padawan and a random, a Non-Force Sensitive random at that.
Ranks do not mean much. People underestimate an average Jedi Master as well.

Bastilla Shan was a powerful Jedi during that time. Making her irrelevant for a while by freezing her in a spot (alongside another individual) is really impressive when we know that she could do the same to other Jedi.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I think this goes without saying as being the definition of average for anyone worth mentioning.
Really? How many have repelled a Lightsaber-throw attack?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Bastila is virtually featless until the string of losses she has at the end of this. She killed one random Dark Jedi, and that's pretty much it.
Ah! The feats based trump card...

@The_Tempest? Didn't I tell you this?

1. She is officially recognized as a powerful Jedi; implying that she would have impressive Force abilities.

2. She prevented Revan and Co. from arresting her on Lehon (by knocking them out with a Force-wave) and later on blocked Revan's companions from entering her chambers with exception of Revan.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which is just TK, something, frankly, Savage outclasses Malak in by miles.
I doubt this! We haven't seen much from Darth Malak in this area but he should be formidable in the use of Telekinesis.

Darth Malak choking two Jedi simultaneously on the Star Forge:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4511459-0819195294-KY7Bb.gif

This showing is years before his prime:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/3825656-malak+pushhh.png

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The same amnesiac that doesn't remember anything more than a week of Jedi training.
So the Jedi Order are stupid enough to send Revan to fight Sith when he is not prepared for the challenge?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
None of which actually prove superiority in anything, unless you're also going to say that every random with Lighting and Drain is above Savage, and in that case, you could just concede to ILS now.
Really?

Darth Malak have the option to freeze Savage Opress in place and then chop his head off.

Or

Darth Malak also have the option to use powers such as Force Drain and Force Lightning to great effect against Savage Opress to weaken and eventually overwhelm him.

When did Malak repel a lightsaber throw attack?

Originally posted by |King Joker|
re you Indian like DMB?
Pakistani

---

Originally posted by ILS
So are you saying accolades don't mean shit?
No, they are useful. However, there is a need to focus on ambiguities.

Plo Koon might be counted among the most powerful Jedi but we don't know where he actually stands in the big picture with this bit of information. To address this ambiguity, we look into his feats and performance (in general).

Besides usual stuff, I noticed Plo Koon disarming Aurra Sing, killing droids and criminals, and holding his own against Asajj Ventress (while being injured). However, we have evidence of him loosing to Savage Opress, so we have an indication from this that where he might stand.

Savage Opress is good (no doubts about this). But I don't perceive him to be among the most powerful Sith; he never even acquired the mantle in the first place. His losses to real Sith like Darth Maul, Count Dooku and Palpatine imply that he was not up to the mark.

On the other hand, we have Darth Malak who not just became a Sith but proved his mettle by ruling an Empire in an era when multiple masters of the Force co-existed with him and were members of his Empire. Other Jedi attempted to stop him (including powerful Bastila Shan) but only Revan succeeded. This is a measure of his strength.

You say that Plo Koon is counted among the most powerful Jedi ever?

Well, Bastila Shan is considered to be in the league of Count Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi:

Bastila could be thought of as a second-tier Jedi. She's clearly not as capable as characters such as Mace Windu, Jedi Master; Yoda, Jedi Master; or Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter; but she's roughly on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master or Darth Tyranus.

Taken from Wizards of the Coast: Champions of the Force Preview 6

Originally posted by ILS
This is what you call double standards. Malak can't be better than one Jedi because he faced the tribulation of ruling an empire but not another. If you concede that it doesn't necessarily make Malak better than Yoda, you concede that it doesn't necessarily make him better than anyone, aside from those within that Empire at least.
See above

Originally posted by ILS
And it doesn't, unless you can point what Plo Koon-tier beings Malak was superior to within his empire. And don't say Bandon you ****.
See above

Originally posted by ILS
Why are you asking me for proof? It was your assertion that the gap between Revan and Malak is so small that there isn't one person who could fit in between it, despite the fact there's obviously quite a large gap given that Revan defeated Malak with horrific circumstances.
There might be one person but it isn't Savage Opress.

Originally posted by ILS
It suggests Savage's mastery is still raw and unrefined, not that the mastery isn't there. So he's still a master even if he's raw in his application.
It is a meaningless/poorly written statement.

You are not a master until you achieve refinement.

Originally posted by ILS
And like I said, he would go on to become much more refined when he trained under Maul; I'd refer you to him decapitating the entire leadership of the Black Sun with one lightsaber throw, stopping a knife millimetres from Maul's head (which Maul had full confidence in him to do), coordinating telekinetic attacks with Maul, and shattering the supposedly impenetrable metal Beskar which was fashioned into a prison cell, which should logically be Beskar in one of it's toughest moulds.
Savage Opress is good; never doubted this. But these showings aren't something that a Dark Lord should not be capable of. I am looking at the bigger picture here.

Originally posted by ILS
Okay? In what way does this prove Savage is weaker than Malak? You keep bringing up pieces of "evidence", to use the term loosely, that make no real link between Savage and Malak.
Darth Malak proved to be worthy of being a Sith Lord (not just being a Sith Lord but also proved himself worthy of being referenced among the greatest Sith) and examples of his powers were cited by even the likes of Darth Plagueis while instructing his apprentice.

Savage Opress was a Sith wannabe and died as as Sith wannabe (personally admitting his lack of ability). At least, he had the courage to admit his shortcomings.

Originally posted by ILS
The only thing there that could possibly be relevant is Malak rekting Revan. What had Revan done up to that point to suggest parity to Savage, who as I said, has shattered Beskar?
Look at this:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4511371-3044562405-y7r7P.gif

All of it is relevant! Freezing (powerful) Bastilla Shan and then multi-tasking by trapping Revan into a whirlwind of energy! It is a really impressive showing.

Originally posted by ILS
The same Savage who also before his prime held Dooku and Ventress by their throats against his their will (granted he was enraged, but he was well before his prime, and Ventress/Dooku combined >>> Malak).
Bastilla Shan/Revan/Carth Onasi collectively > Darth Malak too. Didn't stop him from schooling them with a good strategy.

Savage Opress's choke-hold on the duo of Asajj Ventress and Count Dooku was a temporary gain for him or you think that he would have choked both to death?

At maximum, the aforementioned feat implies that he can put Darth Malak in a chokehold but he isn't gaining anything from it because Darth Malak will eventually resist it and resume spanking.

Originally posted by ILS
Better than Savage's?
Yes.

Originally posted by ILS
That remains to be proven. All you've done is list that Malak has Force Lightning and Drain. When has he successfully applied either power against someone even remotely comparable to Savage in a combat scenario?
You need to prove that Savage Opress can resist powers of Darth Malak in the first place. You can't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ranks do not mean much. People underestimate an average Jedi Master as well.

Bastilla Shan was a powerful Jedi during that time. Making her irrelevant for a while by freezing her in a spot (alongside another individual) is really impressive when we know that she could do the same to other Jedi.

Ranks actually mean a lot. If Bastila had the control and focus to be a Jedi Knight or a Master, she would have been one. Instead she's a 19 year old, who's hot headed and with no actual showings to back up your hype. It doesn't guarantee inferiority in power, but given she has no showings, at all, to show why we should give her the benefit of the doubt, I won't.

He didn't repel it; you're ignoring the limitations of the game's engine to support your argument. Malak I mean it looks like it hit him square in the face, sparks fly and everything, but I'm guessing that didn't actually happen, otherwise he'd have blocked sabers on the several other occasions where that would have come in handy. Like when Revan chopped his face in two.

The first one isn't even a feat, and most of her accolades for power are because of her battle meditation. The second is her running away, with just minutes later she is shit stomped, all of this is after her being captured anyway, so it's not a bench mark for her being stunned before.

Did you just put choking two no names and pushing a random over Savage TKing Dooku, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and squads of droids? And shuttles? And dozens of soldiers? Really? Not to mention this:

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/3767047-savage+pushing+ship.gif

or this:

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/3766606-savage+breaks+out+of+prison+cell.gif

being far superior showings.

They didn't send Revan to fight Malak, or any other Sith for that matter. They sent him to find the Star Forge, kek. He obviously wasn't prepared to fight Malak without his memories, which is why he lost on the Leviathan, only making gains against him as his memory returned and he trained with the Sith on Korriban.

Yes.

Sure, unless Malak isn't immediately TK'd and pressed by Savage in sabers. Which would happen because Savage is a much more dominating opponent than Revan, and Savage wouldn't just stand there like Revan constantly does.

Or, since Malak doesn't have Lightning remotely comparable to Dooku, Savage uses his lightsaber to block it, immediately goes in for sabers, overwhelms Malak like even Revan is able to do while Malak's amped, TK's Malak into submission, and then kills him.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
When did Malak repel a lightsaber throw attack?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/3826836-6123800898-Av6Eu.gif

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
An Empire of weaklings would have never challenged the Jedi Order. There were powerful Sith in the Empire, though all have not been identified due to lack of need in the official story:

With legions of armored troopers spreading throughout the galaxy, all led by masters of the Force, the Sith Empire seems unstoppable.

Taken from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

Wherein did I mention anything about their power? I'm just saying that they're no less of wannabee Sith than Savage.

Oh, and they challenged the Jedi Order because the Order was heavily fractured from the Exar Kun War and the Mandalorian Wars. They didn't even get time to recover from the latter before Revan came back with half of their own army turned against them.

LeGenD seems up to it. Let's all debate with him and his hard drive.

His response to me was on the first page, my response was merely delayed. Not that it's exactly relevant to the topic anyway.

Also, kek @ Malak draining anything. The only things he could Drain were half-dead Jedi inside stasis machines that he admitted transferred the energy to him anyway. It's probable that he knows Drain but can't even use it in a fight (ala Bane).

I'm not knocking you for responding to him. He felt the need to engage multiple people in debate. He should deal with the consequences.

Oh. Well, I agree.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Ranks actually mean a lot. If Bastila had the control and focus to be a Jedi Knight or a Master, she would have been one. Instead she's a 19 year old, who's hot headed and with no actual showings to back up your hype. It doesn't guarantee inferiority in power, but given she has no showings, at all, to show why we should give her the benefit of the doubt, I won't.
I do not say that ranks are meaningless but they do not tell much about the powerful of a Jedi in general.

For example; Revan became the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy during the era of Mandalorian Wars but he was officially a Jedi Knight at that time. In-fact, Revan got demoted to 'padawan' status during his amnesic state; he was crowned as a Jedi Knight "after" defeating Darth Malak. So should we asume that an average padawan (or every Jedi Master out there) was up to the task?

My point is that the Jedi Order doesn't promotes a Jedi on the basis of his strength in the Force .

The Jedi Order had lost a large number of its members during the Mandalorian Wars and the consequent Jedi Civil War; I doubt that ranks had significant importance in such trying times. The Jedi Order might have significantly increased its standards for bestowing higher ranks to Jedi during such trying times; the existing members might have been under pressure for proving their mettle much more-so then their counterparts during peacetime.

Bastila Shan emerged as a powerful Jedi "before" the events of KoTOR:

Under the command of the powerful Jedi Bastila Shan, the strike team attacked Revan's flagshipped, boarded his vessel, and confronted the mighty Sith.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

--

A brash, impulsive, and powerful Jedi, Bastila Shan was gifted with the rare art of Battle Meditation. By concentrating on the lives around her, she could bolster the resolve of her allies while disheartening her enemies.

Taken from Wizards of the Coast: Champions of the Force Preview 6

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
He didn't repel it; you're ignoring the limitations of the game's engine to support your argument. Malak I mean it looks like it hit him square in the face, sparks fly and everything, but I'm guessing that didn't actually happen, otherwise he'd have blocked sabers on the several other occasions where that would have come in handy. Like when Revan chopped his face in two.
I am not ignoring the limitations of the game engine. I believe that the KoTOR doesn't do justice to its scripted action-sequences; similar action-sequences would look much more impressive in mediums such as novels and/or big-budget videos. However, we have common-sense.

This looks like a successful attempt to repel a lightsaber-throw attack to me:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/3826836-6123800898-Av6Eu.gif

Darth Malak had (most likely) grown in power since the time of his duel with (Darth) Revan. The former might have acquired new abilities and powers since and boasted with confidence that he have surpassed (Darth) Revan.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The first one isn't even a feat, and most of her accolades for power are because of her battle meditation.
Yes, but you missed the point.

Regarding power;

Bastila Shan is recognized as a powerful Jedi in general sense; her proficiency in Battle Meditation was a bonus and largely hyped separately.

For example:

Master Satele is heir to a line of powerful Jedi. She claims to be a descendant of the once-fallen hero Revan, and Bastila Shan, whose battle meditation skills were peerless. Though there is immense power in the Shan bloodline, there is also a streak of unorthodoxy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Another;

"You and Bastila share a powerful connection to the Force, and each other." (Master Zhar Lastin)

And another;

"She is strong in the Force, but she is also impulsive, willful and proud - as you once were, Revan." (Master Jolee Bindo)

In summary; Bastila Shan was strong in the Force, a powerful Jedi arguably peerless in the use of Battle Meditation.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The second is her running away, with just minutes later she is shit stomped, all of this is after her being captured anyway, so it's not a bench mark for her being stunned before.
Of-course, she would run away from 3 battle-hardened opponents in a confrontation (one of them an absolute powerhouse; Revan); many would in her position. However, she was powerful enough to affect even the likes of Revan with her powers and this is important revelation. It is certainly a benchmark for her, and a good one.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Did you just put choking two no names and pushing a random over Savage TKing Dooku, Anakin, Obi-Wan, and squads of droids? And shuttles? And dozens of soldiers? Really? Not to mention this:

http://static7.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/3767047-savage+pushing+ship.gif

or this:

http://static8.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111114474/3766606-savage+breaks+out+of+prison+cell.gif

being far superior showings.
Now this is the problem, friend. Your perspective is utterly subjective here.

Those two Jedi were powerful enough to reach the position of Darth Malak before even Revan could. You may assert that Revan was facing much greater opposition but I don't think that Darth Malak would leave the entire factory defenseless to stop a single individual; he was fully aware of the fact that other Jedi had boarded Star Forge and will be advancing towards him.

You also make it sound like as if affecting the likes of Count Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi, droids and shuttles is impossible task for a Sith Lord who is touted among the most powerful ever?

Those demonstrations are meaningless in a discussion involving powerful Force-users. The shuttle was already positioned near the edge of the cliff and it was easier for Savage Opress to throw it from the cliff in that position. Similarly, shattering windows and killing a Mandalorian is supposed to be impressive? These aren't impossible tasks for (any) powerful Force-user. If Savage Opress could do it, his superiors could as well; this is the point.

Darth Malak affecting the likes of Bastila Shan (a powerful Jedi; considered to be in the league of Count Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi) and Revan (doesn't needs an introduction) - are meaningful demonstrations. They imply that he would have no trouble with affecting the likes of Savage Opress with his powers.

Your responses are devoid of common sense and logic.

Aryn Leener sent 6 Cars of a Tram packing across the hall with her telekinetic abilities in a single attempt; didn't stop Darth Malgus from whooping her @ss later-on. Some authors believe that Darth Malak was more powerful then Darth Malgus.

Come-on, friend. You can do better.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They didn't send Revan to fight Malak, or any other Sith for that matter. They sent him to find the Star Forge, kek. He obviously wasn't prepared to fight Malak without his memories, which is why he lost on the Leviathan, only making gains against him as his memory returned and he trained with the Sith on Korriban.
I am aware of the story but this is not entirely true. They were grooming and training Revan for the challenges that lay ahead and they had hope that Revan would eventually defeat Darth Malak.

Revan has to undergo Sith trails on Korriban because he had no other way to reach the Star Map that was located inside the tomb of Naga Sadow. This was a bonus for him, not a requirement.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes.

Sure, unless Malak isn't immediately TK'd and pressed by Savage in sabers. Which would happen because Savage is a much more dominating opponent than Revan, and Savage wouldn't just stand there like Revan constantly does.

Or, since Malak doesn't have Lightning remotely comparable to Dooku, Savage uses his lightsaber to block it, immediately goes in for sabers, overwhelms Malak like even Revan is able to do while Malak's amped, TK's Malak into submission, and then kills him.
http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AoOa0YKI-xo/UWtJRJkrB2I/AAAAAAAAAGk/dby7JFjV0jQ/w571-h428-p-o/michael-jordan-laughing.gif

Legend, I hope you're aware that "being strong in the Force" and "being a powerful Jedi" are two of the most generic and (on these forums) meaningless accolades in SW history?

Originally posted by SunRazer
Legend, I hope you're aware that "being strong in the Force" and "being a powerful Jedi" are two of the most generic and (on these forums) meaningless accolades in SW history?
Really?

I still come across few names who are touted as such, at-least in the SWTOR era. Nonetheless, context is important:

It is generally understood and assumed that Jedi Knights and Masters are generally strong in the Force (in comparison to majority). However, when a character is singled-out among them for similar hype then the intent is that this one is a stand-out. This is not an assumption; I have evidence for this.

Moreover, I have offered much more then that.

Oh, please. Stick Bane in a grave and he'd be "strong in the Force".

Originally posted by SunRazer
Oh, please. Stick Bane in a grave and he'd be "strong in the Force".
Now, this doesn't make any sense.

It is important to focus on the 'context' of revelations.

Here is a generic assessment of the competence of Jedi Order during Revan's era:

Originally posted by QuakeBlood
A number of quotes depict the Jedi of the KotOR era as being in their prime. I'll direct you now to a number of quotes from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. To avoid the annoyance of typing out the quotes and making my post an absolute eyesore to read, I've taken the following scans from DarthAnt66's blog at the following link - http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/kotor-era-is-the-prime-of-the-jedi/95277/

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4576973-3375218548-39699.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4576974-2116841268-38299.png

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/124590/4576975-4365102923-38309.png

Now, when Bastila Shan is in focus in the text, she is (logically) being promoted as a 'standout' among all. There are additional revelations that imply as such:

Bastila Shan is the quintessential Jedi: trained from a very young age and gifted with a natural ability with the Force that has given her both renown and considerable pride.

From Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide

--

Maybe the most heroic Jedi of her time, Bastila Shan was a Jedi exemplar.

From Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

--

Under the command of the powerful Jedi Bastila Shan, the strike team attacked Revan's flagshipped, boarded his vessel, and confronted the mighty Sith.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

In each example, you clearly see that Bastila Shan is being promoted as a standout among the Jedi. A source even promotes her as being in the league of Count Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi (we have a quantifiable revelation in this case).

@Freshestslice

Quoting system not working for me at the moment so your statements will be in simple quotes.

Also, read the entire response before responding this time.


Didn't you assert in another threat that knowledge = power? Now you are distinguishing the two?

The Jedi High Council look into several aspects before selecting a candidate for a higher rank. Otherwise, individuals such as Coleman Trebor would not become a member of the Jedi High Council.

Bastila Shan was a powerful Jedi but she was also brash and impulsive and the Jedi High Council of her era felt that she needed more time to control her emotions. Her promotion would depend upon it.


See above


Fair enough

Let's drop the 'padawan' nonsense and focus on the facts at hand; recognizing Bastila Shan as a powerful Jedi will be start for you.


Where it is stated that she was considered powerful due to her proficiency in a single talent? Don't make silly assumptions. They won't fly with me.

Now pay attention to following revelations:

Master Satele is heir to a line of powerful Jedi. She claims to be a descendant of the once-fallen hero Revan, and Bastila Shan, whose battle meditation skills were peerless. Though there is immense power in the Shan bloodline, there is also a streak of unorthodoxy.

Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Another;

"You and Bastila share a powerful connection to the Force, and each other." (Master Zhar Lastin)

And another;

"She is strong in the Force, but she is also impulsive, willful and proud - as you once were, Revan." (Master Jolee Bindo)

Bastila Shan was considered powerful because she was strong in the Force and became proficient in the use of different powers. She was particularly renowned for her proficiency in the use of Battle Meditation.

Assertion such as "She has nothing else to her name" is utterly silly. Nobody is praised for his proficiency in Telekinesis.


Show me an example of a random Sith trooper repelling a Lightsaber-throw in a cutscene.


CONTEXT, my friend. Learn about it.


And same is true for Darth Maul and Savage Opress in comparison to Revan... Shan's inferiority to Revan is not a mark against her.

Most 'are' inferior to Revan.


You explain to me how they got there. Did they teleport into that area?

I am curious! Are you a kid who needs citation to figure things out and lack any logical deductive ability of their own?

Learn to use common sense.


Didn't address my point. Let me know when you have one.


Yes. That too.

This is relevant (and meaningful) demonstration of power however:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11114/111140132/4511371-3044562405-y7r7P.gif

The only meaningful information you can offer is that Savage Opress managed to put Count Dooku in a choke-hold and defeated some Jedi. Nothing else matters in this discussion.


And any "powerful" Force-user could do that.


No, this stuff is beneath him.

Breaking windows is impressive now?


Darth Malak being able to affect powerful Jedi such as Bastila Shan and Revan with his powers, is sufficient proof in my books.




Bastila could be thought of as a second-tier Jedi. She's clearly not as capable as characters such as Mace Windu, Jedi Master; Yoda, Jedi Master; or Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter; but she's roughly on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master or Darth Tyranus.

Taken from Wizards of the Coast: Champions of the Force Preview 6

Are you not paying attention?


Yes, but Revan was no push-over when he fought Darth Malak for the first time in the game.

And if the time between the first and second confrontation is only 3 weeks then you don't have a solid ground to argue that Revan was significantly weak during first confrontation.


Then we won't get anywhere in this debate.


This is lame argument.

Savage Opress have superior TK showings then Malak so he must be stronger as well?

Jedi Master Orgus Din have superior TK showings then Darth Angral but the latter slaughtered the former in a confrontation.


Right... That's why it was necessary to retrain Revan in the ways of the Force...

Wait:

I agree with Master Dorak. Many of our own pupils are leaving the Jedi Order to follow the Sith teachings, we need recruits to stand against Malak! With Revan dead... (Master Vandar)

--

Together you two may be able to stop Darth Malak and the Sith. (Master Vandar)

You may find more examples.


Fair enough in this case.


I laughed at your silly assumption that Savage Opress is more dominating (and stronger) opponent then Revan. I don't take stupid assumptions seriously.

I have brought on the table what I could. I leave the ball in your court now.

If I put this into Word and it comes out as more than three pages...

I accept your concession @Freshestslice

I'll respond later on tonight. Why don't you practice basic grammar in the mean time. I'm tired of reading dissertations full of nonsense that my nine year old little sister could write better.

Double post

thats 3 posts tho

I posted the top one twice while editing. So it's double, Neph. I accept your concession.

ILS stomping tbh.

So Malak is a master of a Force, an excellent duelist and has Force drain and Force lightning.

So he's <Warb Null then.

up

@ILS

Quoting system not working again, so I will quote your responses in a normal way.


You are taking advantage of lack of exploration of powers of Darth Malak in the lore but this is a cheap way to establish superiority of one character over the other. It is very easy to argue in the favor of a character with a number of impressive feats (on-screen) versus the other who is largely featured in games.

We don't see Darth Malak in big-budget mediums and/or novels so we have to stick with his showings in the game that do not impress you much either. Therefore, I will attempt another method to argue in favor of Darth Malak; the method of power-scaling. For this, I will cite some showings of his inferiors.

Lucien Draay

Lucien Draay killed several Jedi during a gathering, withstood a blast of power from Zayne Carrick at point-blank range, prevented a large stature from crushing him beneath, tolerated powers unleashed through Ludo Kressh's gauntlets against him, demonstrated the capability of collapsing/destroying structures, sent Zayne and one of his companions packing simultaneously with a gesture, destroyed several large (loader) droids simultaneously, and similarly destroyed several HK series droids simultaneously.

Zayne Carrick

Zayne Carrick levitated a large number of miners to safety (simultaneously) from an unstable comet. He was regarded as a mediocre Jedi of his era by the way.

---

Darth Malak, being superior to Lucien Draay and Zayne Carrick, would be capable of relatively more impressive showings and tolerance capacity.


Darth Malak > Lucien Draay > Asajj Ventress

Also, you are presenting a rosy picture of Savage Opress and ignoring his share of embarrassments. Obi-Wan Kenobi injured Savage Opress in a confrontation while being pressed by both Darth Maul and Savage Opress. The latter had grown in power and skill at this point but still got his @ss handed to him by a Jedi who was legitimately among the most powerful of his era.

Therefore, Plo Koon's accolade doesn't reflects upon the competence of Darth Malak vis-a-vis Savage Opress. It's a bad analogy.


Palpatine - being the most powerful Sith ever - is no longer a legitimate argument, I'm afraid.

Yes, Savage Opress was a 'Sith apprentice' at best. However, Malak became a Darth (and) ruler of a Sith Empire. There is a clear distinction in the promotion of both characters.

Thousands of shumucks could attain the rank of Sith during the era of Darth Malak? This is based on?

I am sure that Darth Revan established stringent standards for producing Sith for his Empire since he desired quality (and did not take failures kindly) and his teachings inspired Darth Bane to establish , a lineage that eventually culminated in Palpatine. Equally important is the fact that Darth Malak maintained the status quo after the fall of Darth Revan; not compromising on the standards of producing Sith.

Average Sith of the KoTOR era were already proficient in Jedi arts since they were largely converties and learned new powers during the Sith trials. They were good enough for the task of assassinating hardened Jedi and individuals (with great potential among them) would climb the ranks and become Sith Lords.

"With legions of armored troops spreading throughout the galaxy, all led by masters of the Force, the Sith Empire seems unstoppable.

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

Now, let us reexamine the capabilities of Sith of KoTOR era in general:

Sith student

The Sith students of Darth Revan and Darth Malak are many of the same Jedi crusaders that once fought for the Republic. Loyal to their fearless commander, they follow Revan to Korriban and into the heart of Darkness. Already proficient in Jedi arts, these marauders acquire new nefarious talents studying at the feet of the Sith academy headmaster Jorun Uln - one of Exar Kun's original acolytes.

Sith students fighting capabilities are surpassed only by their range and selfishness.

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

Remarks: Sith students of Darth Malak's Empire are already a match for fully-trained Jedi of the era.

Sith assassin

Established by Darth Revan and heavily utilized by Darth Sion, these surreptitious butchers specialize in practical modes of execution. They drain the Force from their targets to augment their own powers and expertly turn captives into Sith with a combination of torture, Sith poisons, and the dark-side-drenched masks they wear.

The most elite of these assassins are the Bladeborn - Sith blademasters who sometimes use lightsabers and more often wield dreaded tremor swords.

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

Remarks: Sith assassins tend to proficient in the use of Force Drain powers (that grant them advantage in combat situations) and Jedi dueling arts.

Shadow Hand

A Shadow Hand's expertise in cruelty, trickery and the dark side are second only to the Sith Master - for now.

Taken from Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide

Remarks: These are the chosen apprentices of Darths of the Empire.

---

I believe that Sith Masters (or Darths) of the era do not need any introduction. More importantly, your assumptions are baseless.


The above.


Bastila Shan wasn't lacking in performance in combat situations. Loosing to the ruling Dark Lord of the Sith (and) Revan - two of the most powerful Force-users ever - is not a mark against her. Besides them, she dominated everybody else who confronted her (Jolee Bino and Juhani included).

That source is shaky at best? Is it OK to pick and choose among the official revelations now? If yes, then I may disregard Plo Koon's accolade of being one of the most powerful Jedi ever.

Count Dooku didn't outgun Obi-Wan Kenobi by a massive margin. The latter was powerful and skilled enough to handle Anakin Skywalker head-on. Count Dooku overwhelmed Obi-Wan Kenobi through aggressive use of his command the Force.

We can actually.


What is wrong with Bastila's accolades?

I am not disagreeing with the material you cited. I am just pointing out the obvious. There is no such thing as 'crude' mastery of the Force. You are either a master of the Force or not. Simple.

I have also stated that Savage Opress is good. However, we don't witness him demonstrating advanced Sith powers and/or successfully countering them. He did not become a master of the Dark Side.


Yes, Savage Opress improved with passage of time, under the tutelage of Darth Maul in particular. However, as I pointed out earlier, we do not witness him demonstrating advanced Sith powers and/or successfully counter them during confrontations.

You offer nothing that suggests that Savage Opress would not be affected by powers of Darth Malak. By virtue of power-scaling (see above) and proficiency in advanced Sith powers, I expect Darth Malak to have advantage in this hypothetical confrontation.

How is affecting some kind of metal relevant to this confrontation? Was it relevant against Obi-Wan Kenobi and Palpatine?


You are wrong, my friend. See above.


If Savage Opress could give them migraines, it is safe to assume that Darth Malak would take them out.


I did the math above for you.


Again, that was a temporary gain for him. In contrast, Darth Malak's feat of utterly incapacitating three opponents (2 legendary Jedi among them) is a superior showing.

Keep in mind that Darth Malak had to keep Bastila Shan and Carth Onasi immobile while dueling with Revan and managed to incapacitate Revan on top of his former actions (multi-tasking).


Your assumptions are misplaced, my friend.


Revan would defeat Count Dooku and Asajj Ventress simultaneously. And Darth Malak proved to be a major challenge for Revan.

I see the opposite.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
ILS stomping tbh.

I wonder if you could cobble an argument just once without employing double standards, Leg.

Just once.

Bump.

i've missed u nargaroth have u been wanking ahsoka on cv?

tbh team 2. Darth Revan doesn't have that many feats, but I'm willing to give him the nod against Maul from his hype, accolades and assuming that some of his non-combative Force applications (Rataka language, rituals, etc.) correlate with his raw power. Malak vs. Opress is a meh.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
i've missed u nargaroth have u been wanking ahsoka on cv?

Not so much actually.

Oh... why is that

Originally posted by |King Joker|
Oh... why is that

Too lazy.

fair enough tbh

Bump.