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Discuss.

As?

Hmm, legends-wise, around Jedi Quest/AotC
In fact iirc Kenobi says that the only thing that keeps Anakin from truly surpassing him is his reckless and emotional nature.

Canon wise? Well TCW made that hard, I'd say it was near RotS but that's vague as hell.

In what? Skill, power, physical capabilities?

I'd say doing better against Dooku in AotC proves he altogether surpassed him (in Legends and Canon) in pretty much every respect bar intellect.

Not in skill imo. I don't think he ever surpassed his master in skill. In power and physicals though I'd say it was shortly after AotC.

Originally posted by Syndicate
In what? Skill, power, physical capabilities?

It never stated.

But imo Anakin never surpassed Kenobi in technical skill.

Like Soara said. He has the potential to become the greatest Jedi ever(period) but his emotions and lack finesse get the better of him.

Meh I don't know about that, when is Anakin ever said to lack finesse?

Never. I do remember him being stated to be one of the best Djem So practitioner Dooku has ever seen.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
As?

Any interesting category you want to talk about, ie:

Overall combative ability
Force mastery
Saber prowess
Technical saber skill

Imo Anakin is the superior to Kenobi in physical prowess and force mastery by a little after AotC. He is a superior overall combatant some time into the Clone Wars and imo he never surpasses his master in technical skill.

Anakin surpassed Obi Wan defintly by ROTS, in I think all categories.

@doucheydouche and Beni.

I'm only laying down what Soara says to a Pre AotC Anakin.

Plus I don't see Anakin having a lot of finesse it's more raw strength than anythin(duh)

Erza admires and uses Anakin's training holograms. But I guess it's difficult to measure how technically skilled he is compared to Obi Wan; they specialize in different forms, after all.

What we do know is that Anakin can use jar'kai as a padawan sufficiently to surprise and put Dooku on the offense, and if we're using Legends, creates his new lightsaber form for his suit within a matter of weeks while incorporating elements from a variety of forms and fighting styles. He's obviously pretty technically skilled.

Well, I'm talking about Legends Anakin here, not Canon or even a Comp Anakin lol.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Plus I don't see Anakin having a lot of finesse it's more raw strength than anythin(duh)
Let's see, your opinion, or Dooku's opinion.

Pretty sure Dooku is more valid.

Yeah where does the idea that strength based fighters lack technical sophistication come from?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Let's see, your opinion, or Dooku's opinion.

Pretty sure Dooku is more valid.

Well it isn't my opinion, Anakin's stated to be reckless and emotional in combat in several sources so....?

Making rash decisions doesn't mean you lack finesse.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Overall combative ability
RotS


Never


RotS


RotS

TCW Movie.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah where does the idea that strength based fighters lack technical sophistication come from?

Two words: Savage Opress

And since those two words are wrong, we're back at square one.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And since those two words are wrong, we're back at square one.

Oh yes, my mistake, Savage is the epitome of technical finesse.

As if one strength based fighter defines all strength based fighters.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
As if one strength based fighter defines all strength based fighters.

Well remember you were asking where a broad misconception came from. Thus I pointed out what I thought was the first of that misconception to adhere to that broad stereotype. Not saying I believe it, I'm merely supplying an answer.

Originally posted by Vixas
Oh yes, my mistake, Savage is the epitome of technical finesse.
The idea that he just swings at things wildly is retarded.

Uh, Anakin's almost always been better than Obi-Wan in almost every measurable way. He's not even any less intelligent or cunning, really, he's just impatient and immature.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, Anakin's almost always been better than Obi-Wan in almost every measurable way. He's not even any less intelligent or cunning, really, he's just impatient and immature.

lel

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Uh, Anakin's almost always been better than Obi-Wan in almost every measurable way. He's not even any less intelligent or cunning, really, he's just impatient and immature.
That's such bullshit

Anakin is a tier three duelist alongside mundi and fisto, while Obi-Wan is a tier 2 duelist with Koon and Shaak.

Lel, but outside of EN's reality we already know that Anakin is 9th tier and Obi-Wan is 8th tier.

^ by RotS, yeah.

And Anakin is probably smarter than Obi Wan in terms of raw IQ, given his mechanical genius.

If Anakin is smarter then why Kenobi made the plan for rescuing Palpatine from the Invisible Hand and how to beat Dooku? mmm

"Fighting together" is a plan to defeat Dooku?

And as I recall, it didn't work very well. Anakin whooped his ass by himself.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
If Anakin is smarter then why Kenobi made the plan for rescuing Palpatine from the Invisible Hand and how to beat Dooku? mmm

If you're so smart, why is this sentence totally f***ed?

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
If Anakin is smarter then why Kenobi made the plan for rescuing Palpatine from the Invisible Hand and how to beat Dooku? mmm

Neither of those plans were particularly inventive...

Obi Wan has the experience and emotional stability, but Anakin is a genius.

Not that Anakin is exactly inexperienced, considering he was honestly the most active out of any Jedi in the Clone Wars.

Anakin and Obi-Wan have similar experience, Obi-Wan is wiser, Anakin has more intuition. Perfect combo tbh.

Anakin is experienced, but Obi Wan still has ten years on him, and greater emotional stability.

Also Anakin turns out to be right a lot of the times the two quibble; .ie when he wanted to pursue Padme's assassins.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The idea that he just swings at things wildly is retarded.

Well, as is you putting words in my mouth. Savage lacks finesse compared to what we're used to seeing, his saving grace being his strength. Is he completely inept in technical application? Not at all. Is he below what we were used to seeing from strength-based combatants such as Vader? Absolutely.

You explaining that makes your first comment seem silly, not that it wasn't already.

Originally posted by Trocity
You explaining that makes your first comment seem silly, not that it wasn't already.

That Savage lacks technical skill? He does. He LACKS it. Not that he is completely without it. Whereas someone like Vader packs a LOT of brute force, but maintains a high degree of technical skill. He's the exception that set that odd standard, whereas no-one would question Vader's technical aptitude.

Savage is actually more flexible than Vader, and mastered a more complex combat style in far less time.

Originally posted by ILS
Savage is actually more flexible than Vader, and mastered a more complex combat style in far less time.

Assumed you'd show up at SOME point ILS. How ya been?

In any case, IIRC Dooku himself seems disappointed in Savage's lack of technical skill. Though obviously this is DOOKU so that's understandable. I will say that WHEN Savage keeps a somewhat level head he's not too bad. His assisting Maul against Sidious being a prime example. But for a character that, at the surface, when angry, etc. Would be perceived as a tactless brute... well....

2:52

That obvious next-level technical finesse even had Sidious astonished I'm sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hBZNsPnyg

Originally posted by Darth Thor
TCW Movie.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Making rash decisions doesn't mean you lack finesse.

He is rash, council says so, Obi says so, Ahsoka says so, Siri says. Not just in decision makin3, but in combat as well.

How does that answer what he said at all?

Likely by AotC. He is certainly better by the time of TCW movie.

^ I think he may have been more skilled and powerful by AOTC, but I'd probably still give Kenobi the nod due to AOTC Anakin's frustration at not being a Knight leading to some extreme impatience and recklessness.

But yeah Skywalkers definitely surpassed him by TCW Movie.

Imo,I think he only surpasses Kenobi in raw strength.
It's possible in raw power,but surpasses Kenobi altogether? No.
Tier 9,tier 8,doesn't matter.

In their duel Obi Wan defeated Vader/Anakin in not just pure skill,
he outsmarted him by giving up ground,taking the fight where ever he wanted.
I've said this in past debates,Obi Wan is more skilled technically than Anakin.

Anakin maybe raw power,in the end,when it really counts,his raw power only blinded him.
Blinded him to the fact that he the Chosen One still has alot to learn.

Obi Wan Kenobi isn't some push over.
He was smart enough as a padawan to figure out Ataru's weaknesses,and switch from Ataru to
Soresu. Obi Wan always thinks things through before rushing blindly and recklessly
into battle or situations that calls for brains over brawn.

Anakin not so much.
That's why Juyo or Vaapad isn't taught to anyone who is more brawn than brains.
In other words reckless.
I guess at one point in time if Qui Gon allowed it Obi Wan was either qualified or chosen to learn
Vaapad. If allowed.

Anakin,so far is the best Djem So practitioner of his era.
Between Anakin and Ulic they both were the best Djem So duelists of their eras.
With Darth Bane as their very close Second.

In closing imo, again Anakin only surpasses Kenobi only in Power.
everything else Kenobi surpasses Anakin.

That's why Kenobi was pretty much the best choice in every mission,almost.
Against Maul,against Greivous,against both Maul and Savage,
Against Pre' Vizsla,Asajj Ventress. Should I continue?

Because the list is long.
Anakin maybe a tier or two above him but in any contest or mission Obi Wan Kenobl will
always be the best choice.

Lel.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lel. He accepts your concession.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Lel.

Okay,you guys have to help me out here,what's Lel?
I have no idea.
But to answer when,well I would say as Vader he surpassed him while all those yrs on Tatooine
watching over Luke.Any other time Obi Wan surpasses him. Except on Mortis Anakin surpassed
him in the Force. With the Amp he got on Mortis. Anakin is the best pilot in the Order,so
Another one up for Annie.

"Lel" means "I agree with you and I was wrong", so Freshest basically agreed with your post.

Originally posted by |King Joker|
"Lel" means "I agree with you and I was wrong", so Freshest basically agreed with your post.

Yeah, Freshest uses "lel" like "lol", but it's something like "heh, didn't think of it, nice one".

Okay, I just learned something new.cool .
Freshest Slice is cool.
No worries I'm learning new words here.
I been away for awhile.

You guys still going. KMC's SWLEU looks great keep it up!!!
Keep posting. sooner or later I'll answer.Peace!!!!!

Alrighty, thanks Juyo!

Just so you know, currently most of the members are pretty versed in Prequel era. NJO and early Legacy (LotF, FotJ) have their fanbase in SunRazer and DaDivineKing; as for SWTOR, you should go to DarthAnt66 (currently banned), XSUPREMESKILLZ, Beniboybling. KotOR is the area of expertise of DarthAnt66 and SunRazer, while you won't find somebody more versed in TotJ (Kun's times) than ILS. About Bane Trilogy era the best expert to go to is Carthage.

Have fun!

Don't forget SW_Legend.

How could you not mention Tempest.

Thanks.I'm a fan of all of it except for certain parts of NJO.
I'll seek those guys out,until then thanks for allowing me to post my opinions.
On LEU. thanks again.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Don't forget SW_Legend.

How could you not mention Tempest.

Do u miss Ant?

Best prepare, only a week and a half left until our deaths at his hand.

I'm all good. We'll finally be able to have sex again (on KMC).

lmao

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
@doucheydouche and Beni.

I'm only laying down what Soara says to a Pre AotC Anakin.

Plus I don't see Anakin having a lot of finesse it's more raw strength than anythin(duh)

Anakin has a ton of finesse. Many attribute his win over Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand due to his strength. However, when one looks back at the fight Anakin one through a finesse move. He outfenced the best fencer of the Era.

He has also spent the time to make adjustments to Ataru, compensating for it's weakness against blast deflection.

When he got put into the suit, Vader retooled his fighting style in a matter of weeks, incorporating elements from multiple forms including juyo, soresu, djem so and makashi. He's hardly a Savage.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
That's such bullshit

Anakin is a tier three duelist alongside mundi and fisto, while Obi-Wan is a tier 2 duelist with Koon and Shaak.

lol Did you get that from the "Sidious is not invincible" video?

Originally posted by |King Joker|
"Lel" means "I agree with you and I was wrong", so Freshest basically agreed with your post.
Not when I'm talking to you, Joker. Then it means kill yourself.

up

during the Clone Wars, probably around the time he beats Ventress.

AotC, or shortly before.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Never. I do remember him being stated to be one of the best Djem So practitioner Dooku has ever seen. And Kenobi is the best Soresu practitioner in the entire SW Mythos, in both Legends and Canon.

up

Legends? After obsession which is 5 months out from ROTS.

Canon? After or during season 6.

TCW Movie.

They were near equals around AOTC.

In AOTC Anakin did better against Dooku than Kenobi did, though there are some factors to be considered, such as Dooku's knowledge of Ataru's every weakness.

Then again, Anakin was using Shien (not Djem So) and still made Dooku at least reconsider his stance.

After the TCW movie. Anakin is still inferior to Obi Wan around the time.

Around here:

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-53d7735f3457c50926cea7499e711e3c-c

when he was born

before ATOC to be honest as far as raw power goes; skill wise Kenobi always has a good edge in any battle but Anakin right up there with him

Originally posted by relentless1
before ATOC to be honest as far as raw power goes; skill wise Kenobi always has a good edge in any battle but Anakin right up there with him

Eh, I wish there would have been more on screen evidence. It really irked me in ep3 when they are fighting and they get into a "force duel" if you will, they both try to do a force push on each other. This is a case where Anakin's raw power could have been shown, but no it showed them as more or less even.

He never does it. Vader accomplishes that. How much, we won't know

Before AotC.

It kind of fluctuated, didn't it? In Legends, Anakin first started out as weaker since he was untrained, but then he became stronger between ep 1 and 2. Then by the clone wars, Obi-Wan overtook him again, and then Anakin overtook Obi-Wan again by the end of the Clone Wars. Then, when they were fighting on Mustafar, Obi-Wan increased in power immensely, and started rivaling Vader in power. Then Vader was put in the suit, and for that reason Obi-Wan overtook him. Then Vader gained a mastery in the Force, and Obi-Wan grew old, so Vader overtook him again.

Originally during the making of ANH, Vader was supposed to be 2/3 as powerful as Obi-Wan, but that was retconned in the Legends continuity. Not in the Canon, as far as I know, though.

I don't know why people make a case out of it. Anakin has always struck me as an above-average Jedi Knight. It wasn't until his ascension as a Dark Lord that he became 'uber' powerful.

Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Anakin has always struck me as an above-average Jedi Knight.

I don't know why people eye him as some god-like figure?
He was conceived by the Force. Big deal. There are Force-users un-sprung by the Force and still possess an enormous Force strength(e.g: Vitiate)
He is still an above-average Jedi despite the prophecy and characters' claims.
Anakin Skywalker gets so much hype.