Mon-El Vs Captain Marvel

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riv6672
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/2/25835/753947-monelpage.jpg

No prep.
No BFR.
PRE-DCnu Captain Marvel.
Any version but Pre Crisis Mon-El.

http://www.thecomicbookcast.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/DC-Comics-Convergence-Captain-Marvel.jpg

basilisk
Would be a good fight. Have these two interacted much in the comics?

riv6672
Not that i'm aware of.

Sin I AM
Edge to mon el. Im not impressed with billy at all

riv6672
Fair enough. I've used the same rationale.

Pillow Biter
Really depends 'when' you want to make the comparison, i.e. which versions? I'd say that pre-DCNU they were pretty equal for a long time. But there were periods where Mon-El had a big edge. And maybe some where Cap had a small one.
These days, Cap definitely seems fully decoupled from Superman in terms of power levels. And I'm not sure there is a DCnU Mon-El.

riv6672
Huh, was pretty sure there was a DCnu version.
And thanks for the synopsis, i thought he'd remained pretty steady power wise.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by riv6672
Huh, was pretty sure there was a DCnu version.
And thanks for the synopsis, i thought he'd remained pretty steady power wise.

Nu billy is kinda weak sauce in comparison. He's not at classic levels he will be though in time for the movie

riv6672
I'm no fan of DCnu CM, which is shy i rarely use him.

zopzop
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Edge to mon el. Im not impressed with billy at all
Yeah I'm going with Mon El.

Captain Marvel used to be a solid "B" lister but he's on his way to being a sorry "C" lister. It's criminal the way DC treated the Marvel family.

Pillow Biter
During the Post-Crisis period, there was a slow and inconsistent process of decoupling Cap from Superman. Historically, they were physical clones. That was almost written in stone. But Cap couldn't really develop or establish himself as a character that way. And so slowly he began to be differentiated.
By the DCnU, there is little talk of him being basically the 'other' Superman. They have highlited other powers like the lightning, etc.

With Mon-El, there was a time that Daxamites were explicitly more powerful than Kryptonians with Superman's good showings being more a case of his overperformance based on him just being a good fighter with serious will to win. But then the idea of Daxamite superiority was kind of thrown out and by the end it was even suggested that they might be slighlty watered-down Kryptonians. If there is a DCnU Mon-El, I don't know where Daxamites stand now. I think there was a Daxamite in a recent Superman comic and they are clearly meant to be Kryptonian analogues--but whether they are exact equals or superiors or inferiors I don't know. Maybe no one knows.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
During the Post-Crisis period, there was a slow and inconsistent process of decoupling Cap from Superman. Historically, they were physical clones. That was almost written in stone. But Cap couldn't really develop or establish himself as a character that way. And so slowly he began to be differentiated.
By the DCnU, there is little talk of him being basically the 'other' Superman. They have highlited other powers like the lightning, etc.

With Mon-El, there was a time that Daxamites were explicitly more powerful than Kryptonians with Superman's good showings being more a case of his overperformance based on him just being a good fighter with serious will to win. But then the idea of Daxamite superiority was kind of thrown out and by the end it was even suggested that they might be slighlty watered-down Kryptonians. If there is a DCnU Mon-El, I don't know where Daxamites stand now. I think there was a Daxamite in a recent Superman comic and they are clearly meant to be Kryptonian analogues--but whether they are exact equals or superiors or inferiors I don't know. Maybe no one knows.


All this is true. Cap n Clark WERE rough equals till he started getting nerfed

riv6672
So Pre DCnu CM doesnt match up with any Mon-El versions?

Pillow Biter
Sometime after the Eclipso fights, Daxamite superiority sort of went out the window, but the CM = SM equation was still pretty strong. During that time they'd match up pretty well.
Also, Thunder, a 31st Century Shazammer, was in the LSH for a while and seemed on par with Mon-El.

riv6672
A female CM, right? Think i remember her if so.
Thanks for the examples.

Pillow Biter
yeah, Thunder was a female Cap.

Sin I AM
The only time i remember Billy being explicitly Supes equal was Kingdom Come. It was also alluded that he was stronger. There rivalry has tapered off with Billy more and more being treated like a kid instead of a true powerhouse. U can even see it in other media like the new JL movies.

riv6672
There are more times than that.
Supes has been awed by receiving the power of Shazam.
He's also been KOd by receiving the fist of Shazam.

Sin I AM
Superman is always awed by some shit. In Kingdom Come Marvel was shown with respect. He had the power to not just best but kill superman and he was written up to achieve that.

riv6672
Meh.
Your opinion, not going to try and change it.
Its wrong, though. smile

Sin I AM
Originally posted by riv6672
Meh.
Your opinion, not going to try and change it.
Its wrong, though. smile

What exactly am i wrong about? Everything stated happened on panel

riv6672
You have a lot of trouble following a conversation, dont you? roll eyes (sarcastic)
Not going to repeat myself.

jrodslam
For decades, they have been said to be equals. Or, if someone were to say one is stronger than the other, another would interject, whether it was Superman or whomever. Strength was always comparable. Difference is, Cap was always made to be the "kid" and not all out or knowledgeable like Adam. Now i dont know how theyve displayed Billy over the last few years, strength wise, so...things may be different now.

lawest9
Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah I'm going with Mon El.

Captain Marvel used to be a solid "B" lister but he's on his way to being a sorry "C" lister. It's criminal the way DC treated the Marvel family. If there are any of the old fawcett comic readers still around, I'm sure they would be appalled by DC's treatment of the marvel family.

riv6672
There are and we are.
Still, i for one am glad the character was taken under the DC (everyone plays second fiddle to Superman) umbrella, otherwise 90% of the posters here would never even have heard of him.

lawest9
Originally posted by riv6672
There are and we are.
Still, i for one am glad the character was taken under the DC (everyone plays second fiddle to Superman) umbrella, otherwise 90% of the posters here would never even have heard of him. What do you think would have become of CM if marvel comics have gotten him instead of DC?

Pillow Biter
Cap may have been mistreated. Being made less powerful than Superman, however, does not in and of itself equate to mistreatment.

riv6672
Originally posted by lawest9
What do you think would have become of CM if marvel comics have gotten him instead of DC?
Wow, okay.
Marvel TMd the Captain Marvel name in 60s. DC licensed Cap in 72, then bought him in 94.
If Marvel had had the money (assumption on my part, cant think of any other reason) to get that foothold in the 70s, i think they'd have eventually made him a top guy.
Why?
Well, Marvel's top tiers are way closer to each other than DCs have ever been.
The pecking order at DC starts with Superman and ends with Batman.
They are notoriously light on mid tier characters/titles (and its been pointed out here by others).
At Marvel you have Hulk, Thor, who have always shared the top spot in certain ways. Surfer's always been in that mix, too.
Their mid tiers are well established, their street levelers too.
I think Captain Marvel would have had an ongoing series/regular spot on the Avengers for decades now.

riv6672
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
...Being made less powerful than Superman, however, does not in and of itself equate to mistreatment.
^^^its like the difference between verbal and physical abuse. Its still abuse. stick out tongue

The_Dog_of_War
They're both on par with each other, so it could go either way in my opinion.

Putinbot1
Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
They're both on par with each other, so it could go either way in my opinion. Hello, "the dog of war", what made you choose to bump this thread after three years when Riv has just been given a ban roll eyes (sarcastic)

The_Dog_of_War
Originally posted by Putinbot1
Hello, "the dog of war", what made you choose to bump this thread after three years when Riv has just been given a ban roll eyes (sarcastic)

I don't know who Riv is nor did I know he was banned, and I bumped this thread because I'm interested in this matchup and I didn't want to create another one.

Putinbot1
Originally posted by The_Dog_of_War
I don't know who Riv is nor did I know he was banned, and I bumped this thread because I'm interested in this matchup and I didn't want to create another one. OK...

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