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Ahsoka from her impressive performance against Vader.

Canon, Full rest/recovery, winner is victor/100.

Warm-up/trash: Sirak and Bane when he gets his lightsaber

1. Kanan
2. Aayla Secura
3. TPM Obi Wan
4. Cin Drallig
5. Savage Oppress
6. AotC Anakin
7. Qui Gon
8. Season 2 Anakin
9. TPM Maul
10. CW Maul
11. RotS Obi Wan
12. Dooku
13. RotS Anakin
14. Mace Windu

Stops at 10 imo

Stops at 10.

Unless there's some massive difference between TPM and TCW Maul, and there isn't, 9.

9.

Originally posted by ILS
Unless there's some massive difference between TPM and TCW Maul, and there isn't, 9. Not sure why there has to be, its evident whatever advantage exists between Ahsoka and Maul as of Rebels is extremely slight, so even a small difference in ability could have a considerable impact.

That said I feel it could go either way.

Down at 9, the difference between Darth Maul and Brother Maul is not just power. Whilst TCW Maul certainly gained power since his defeat at the hands of enraged Kenobi, he doesn't seem to be as tactically sound in combat; brother Maul seems to take a much more brute offensive approach, a stark contrast to Darth Maul who treated every combat like an art form and used his superior tactical mind to outwit his enemies.

Darth Maul may not be as powerful but his pure martial approach to combat was sacrificed for it.

Tano dies at 9.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Not sure why there has to be, its evident whatever advantage exists between Ahsoka and Maul as of Rebels is extremely slight, so even a small difference in ability could have a considerable impact.

That said I feel it could go either way. We know Maul is better than Ahsoka as of Rebels, all we need to have confirmed is if he got better or worse. If he got worse, then TCW/TPM Mauls for sure can take her. If he got better, then Ahsoka would probably be about on-par with the prior Mauls.

The point I'm making is, TCW Maul got somewhat more powerful. It's not some huge margin that makes the difference between defeating Ahsoka or not.

@AP

An interesting perspective. mmm

Originally posted by AncientPower
Down at 9, the difference between Darth Maul and Brother Maul is not just power. Whilst TCW Maul certainly gained power since his defeat at the hands of enraged Kenobi, he doesn't seem to be as tactically sound in combat; brother Maul seems to take a much more brute offensive approach, a stark contrast to Darth Maul who treated every combat like an art form and used his superior tactical mind to outwit his enemies.

Darth Maul may not be as powerful but his pure martial approach to combat was sacrificed for it.

Tano dies at 9. Not really. Nothing suggests Maul declined in terms of skill or tactics between TPM and TCW. He's only been accredited with being more powerful, and having a massive intellect that had developed from his Sith training.

I am not saying he declined in skill, though I question how rusty his skills had become throughout his lengthy exile. I am saying his approach to combat changed, his pure martial focus does not seem to have lasted, his pure hatred for Obi-Wan Kenobi seems to have taken over.

Originally posted by AncientPower
I am not saying he declined in skill, though I question how rusty his skills had become throughout his lengthy exile. I am saying his approach to combat changed, his pure martial focus does not seem to have lasted, his pure hatred for Obi-Wan Kenobi seems to have taken over. Well, when something even slightly alludes to the changes you're suggesting, lemme know. All I know is Maul become more powerful and driven than he was before.

Take Darth Maul's point of view during his fights in The Phantom Menace novelisation, Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, as well as other TPM era media and compare that to his mindset in the Clone Wars media.

He goes from a pure weapon for Sidious, to mentally broken and then to an aspirant warlord of a third super power, and his approach in combat is noticeably different as well.

I am not making his abilities out to be weaker, but his approach with those skills drastically changed as far as I have seen.

Originally posted by ILS
We know Maul is better than Ahsoka as of Rebels, all we need to have confirmed is if he got better or worse. If he got worse, then TCW/TPM Mauls for sure can take her. If he got better, then Ahsoka would probably be about on-par with the prior Mauls.

The point I'm making is, TCW Maul got somewhat more powerful. It's not some huge margin that makes the difference between defeating Ahsoka or not. True, but on the other hand he fails to gain any kind of advantage over her in lengthy combat, and empirically speaking only demonstrates a Force augmentative edge.

Therefore unless we assume Rebels Maul atrophied in Force power (or alternatively that he was frail to a notable degree), it stands to reason TPM Maul would concede that advantage, and in that respect they'd be much more equally matched.

But no, as I say I feel TPM Maul vs Ahsoka is a very close engagement, whereas against TCW Maul the victor is much more clear.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Take Darth Maul's point of view during his fights in The Phantom Menace novelisation, Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, as well as other TPM era media and compare that to his mindset in the Clone Wars media.Okay.

Fight with Anoon Bondara; "kill as quickly as possible, nobody can find out about the Sith"
Fight with Darsha Assant; "kill as quickly as possible, but I have room to dick around"
Jinn fight on Tatooine; "kill as quickly as possible".
Jinn/Kenobi fight on Naboo; "lead to location of choosing, tire out Jinn, kill him, kill Kenobi, dick around for plot"

Then in TCW he's focused on capturing Kenobi to get revenge, building an empire and destroying both Sidious and the Jedi. Clearly his goals and motivators had changed, which would cause him to change his disposition to certain people (e.g, he wasn't trying to kill Jedi as fast as humanly possible because "oh shit the Sith can't be revealed yet", but as far as his approach to combat goes? He's still tactical when it suits him (compare his use of Dun Moch on Kenobi and his relocating during TPM), and kill-shit-quickly when it suits him. Nothing has really changed about Maul, only the situations he finds himself in. He didn't do anything in TCW I wouldn't have expected from a severely bitter and pissed off Maul.
Only during his hermitage, Talzin restored his mind to full health.
Only in terms of his TK use. I have my own theories about why that is.
I just don't see the massive change others do, tbh.
Beni:
Savage didn't gain any advantage over Adi Gallia after lengthy combat, until he did.

And since we can't really assume anything until we know, boo.

Which I'm not seeing the basis for.

Originally posted by ILS
Savage didn't gain any advantage over Adi Gallia after lengthy combat, until he did.

And since we can't really assume anything until we know, boo.

Which I'm not seeing the basis for. Right, except he was driving Gallia back from the beginning, and in general its pretty clear who had the advantage. Not the best example. I think looking at lightsaber duels thus far in Canon, a precedent can be established for an advantage being evident after a minute of fighting, let alone two.

True.

Try searching your feelings.

You mean like how Maul was driving back Kenobi from the beginning? Also, Savage didn't let Gallia kick him. The gap between Ahsoka and Maul isn't massive but it isn't so tiny that there'd be a big difference between TPM and TCW Maul.

No? Kenobi sought a playing field that didn't put him at a tactical disadvantage, so he retreated, after that, when Kenobi starts to properly engage him, they are at a stalemate. And Palpatine didn't let Maul kick him either, go figure.

Naw. I'd say the gap between them is akin to Anakin and Kenobi, Anakin possesses the clear Force augmentative advantage, but in terms of skill with the blade they are more or less equal, likewise if and when Anakin's Force aug advantage was undermined, Kenobi would be and was able to defeat him.

Lmao, when Adi Gallia is on the backfoot to Savage she's clearly losing, but when Kenobi in mirroring fashion backs off from Maul he's seeking a tactical advantage. Kys with these double standards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqEtXVh8UOo
Are you comparing Ahsoka to Maul or Maul to Maul? If Maul to Maul I'd agree, TCW would have slightly better augmentation. If Ahsoka to Maul, no, Maul's just better.

Stop debating ILS on Maul. It's futile.

8.

Somewhere 10-12

Originally posted by ILS
Unless there's some massive difference between TPM and TCW Maul, and there isn't, 9.

Originally posted by ILS
Lmao, when Adi Gallia is on the backfoot to Savage she's clearly losing, but when Kenobi in mirroring fashion backs off from Maul he's seeking a tactical advantage. Kys with these double standards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqEtXVh8UOoGoodness, you're an intelligent person, it's not hard to work out.

The only point at which Maul could be construed as driving Kenobi back is from 0:14-17 mark, a literal 3 seconds period of fighting in which Kenobi retreats across uneven terrain.

Other than that, yes, Kenobi leaping away when he was a sheer drop behind him is called a tactical retreat, as is leaping to the high ground when backed up against a wall.

How does that compare to being consistently driven back over the entirety of the engagement, during which Gallia is literally bending over backwards to evade the strength of her attacker? And are we even going to account for the fact Kenobi is a Soresu user who regularly employs Sokan?Ahsoka and Maul of course.

And naw, face it, Ahsoka stonewalled him.Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Stop debating ILS on Maul. It's futile. I will contest misjudgements of Ahsoka wherever I see them.

Maul and Savage push them to the edge of a cliff, they jump off, Maul bros pursue them, Savage drives back Gallia, it cuts to Maul and Kenobi where the latter is backing up and Maul is pursuing him. Kenobi jumps onto the crashed aircraft, and if you look closely at them from there on out, even when it cuts back to the others, Maul is always the one pressing forward. Kenobi is at the end of the aircraft by the time Gallia is rekt.

I get that Soresu is supposed to give ground and shit, but draw the line somewhere.

Anyway, my point is that you can duel someone for what appears to be a long time and still be their clear, definable inferior.

Lel, Gallia bending backwards only proves she's flexible. Again, the point is, a fight can appear to be close or at least well contested for a while but with a clear victor emerging. Ahsoka ended her fight with Maul prematurely. All we know is that Maul is better than her. I find that agreeable personally.
No doubt she did quite well in the face of superior opposition.

How can Ahsoka have such parity with uber AT-AT smashing Vader and lose to TPM Maul?

Originally posted by The Ellimist
How can Ahsoka have such parity with uber AT-AT smashing Vader and lose to TPM Maul? Because she isn't Vader's equal, probably.

Originally posted by ILS
Because she isn't Vader's equal, probably.

She did better against him than Dooku did against Anakin and slightly worse than Qui Gon did against Maul. If Vader is actually comparable to his master in the new canon, that scene would have us put Ahsoka above Dooku.

Originally posted by ILS
Maul and Savage push them to the edge of a cliff, they jump off, Maul bros pursue them, Savage drives back Gallia, it cuts to Maul and Kenobi where the latter is backing up and Maul is pursuing him.Right, and there is a difference between Kenobi backing up and Gallia actually being driven back, the former is tactically given ground, the latter is being made to.

You'll also notice Adi gives ground more consistently than Kenobi in their first bout.Evidently you didn't look closely enough, its only the change in perspective that makes it look that way, in reality he pushes him to the nose of the craft to the middle, a few feet in comparison to like a dozen meters.And my point is that outside of extenuating circustances, there exists no duel I can think of where the victor hasn't been clear after at least a minute of fighting, Ahsoka and Maul fought for two, and the one you've cited lasted half that time.

This line of reasoning stretches only so far.It proves she can't handle is strength, so is resorting to evasion at the expense of giving more ground and leaving herself exposed. Bearing in mind she wields Form V of all styles, which this is completely uncharacteristic of.Uh-huh, and if we are going to talk about drawing lines, you need to define "a while." Two minutes, 6 minutes? If they'd been interrupted after an hour would that still have been "premature"?

And sure, and I'm hypothesizing as to what extent. Which is quite relevant to a discussing concerning which incarnations of Maul she could defeat.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
She did better against him than Dooku did against Anakin and slightly worse than Qui Gon did against Maul. If Vader is actually comparable to his master in the new canon, that scene would have us put Ahsoka above Dooku.

Why is Dooku below Windu?

Could end at season 2 Anakin; otherwise Maul kills her

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I will contest misjudgements of Ahsoka wherever I see them. Good man.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
She did better against him than Dooku did against Anakin and slightly worse than Qui Gon did against Maul. If Vader is actually comparable to his master in the new canon, that scene would have us put Ahsoka above Dooku.


Well probably around Dooku's level.