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http://spider-bob.com/teams/dc/images/JusticeLegionA01.jpg

Justice Legion Alpha:
Superman 1 Million
Batman 1 Million
Wonder Woman 1 Million
Aquaman 1 Million
Flash 1 Million

Pre Crisis Fatal Five:
Emrald Empress
Validus
Mano
Persuader
Tharok

No prep.
No BFR.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111183975/4915475-2022070043-Fatal.jpg

If Hourman 1 Million is in the shape he is in in the scan then Fatal Five in a Rolf stomp.

Honestly IMO Hourman is the only one that lets them get near a fighting chance. Persuader could separate all their heads from their bodies alone.

Go by the listed line up, BB, it was the best group shot with just the members i wanted that i found.
Hourman isnt in the fight, none of your precog shenanigans please.

SOUL SUCK FTW!

Who sucks who now?

Batman sucks.

He also sucks their souls and traps them in a bottle.

Matt kind of makes this a stomp, and maybe even spite, considering he had 100% of the Warlogog during his JL1mil days.

Basically, it's like giving somebody the Infinity Gauntlet or a Cosmic Cube.

Although if we're talking pre crisis era, I could see Persuader cutting any time changes, because that's how he rolls. The man cut gravity, after all.

^^^No. Hourman.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman sucks.

He also sucks their souls and traps them in a bottle.
Somehow i dont believe that its going to be so simple.

Batman does indeed suck

But no, it never is....someone will come in and say they have no souls.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/13/139933/2792702-batman_1million.jpg

Or that you're comparing the ease with which Batman1M could incapacitate then have the time to do that to uber powered pre crisis characters (in the middle of a team fight no less) to doing it to a (the) street level character.

Originally posted by riv6672
^^^No. Hourman.

Whoops, image threw me off. ^_^

In that case have to give it to Fatal Five.

Spirit move is impressive, but too much setup against Emerald Eye and mental lightning spamming.

Sorry about the image.
Its why i listed the 5 JLAres in the OP. Was hard finding a pic of just those 5.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman sucks.

He also sucks their souls and traps them in a bottle.

I'm pretty sure he has to Ko you first before he does the soul steal.

Does he HAVE to? I'll be honest, I don't recall such a thing. I can of course be wrong, as long as you're not carver9.

Originally posted by riv6672
Go by the listed line up, BB, it was the best group shot with just the members i wanted that i found.
Hourman isnt in the fight, none of your precog shenanigans please.

Ahh if your actually read my comment I DID go by the listed line up.

Sorry for trying tobuse a little humor to highlight that the missing member was the only one that could make the fight fair.

Ohh and FTR when has Matthew Tyler EVER exhibited true precog, let alone used it in a combat situation. I was more thinking about his ability to devoove someone to s different point on their timeline with his hour of power. Of course he's only been stated able to and not actually done it hence why he only gives them a chance.

Referencing a regularly used power to be used the way you mention it is completely different to mentioning an alluded to ability that is never used.

In the Legion Dream girl actually uses her precog combined with her combat training (from Val) to dodge and avoid attacks. Shes done that vs Karate Kid successfully and he reacts to a blitzing Mon-el. She's also the only Legionare who uses the flight ring as a weapon to simulate TK. She has on many occasions used its anti grav to throw things at opponents. For the same reason she has better speed and agility feats with the ring (having used it to acrobatically avoid things).

Are we supposed to just ignore character dynamics and operating methods in battles? Its not how i usually roll. I thought we excluded PIS not CIS. The application of precog during battle for Matthew would be PIS because he doesnt use it. For DG its normal operating method. Chalk and cheese.

So is the argument a character can't actually do something or that they can do something but just won't because..reasons. Basically is this like "Superman rarely uses his super speed" all over again?

Originally posted by beatboks
Ahh if your actually read my comment I DID go by the listed line up.

Sorry for trying tobuse a little humor to highlight that the missing member was the only one that could make the fight fair.

Ohh and FTR when has Matthew Tyler EVER exhibited true precog, let alone used it in a combat situation. I was more thinking about his ability to devoove someone to s different point on their timeline with his hour of power. Of course he's only been stated able to and not actually done it hence why he only gives them a chance.

Referencing a regularly used power to be used the way you mention it is completely different to mentioning an alluded to ability that is never used.

In the Legion Dream girl actually uses her precog combined with her combat training (from Val) to dodge and avoid attacks. Shes done that vs Karate Kid successfully and he reacts to a blitzing Mon-el. She's also the only Legionare who uses the flight ring as a weapon to simulate TK. She has on many occasions used its anti grav to throw things at opponents. For the same reason she has better speed and agility feats with the ring (having used it to acrobatically avoid things).

Are we supposed to just ignore character dynamics and operating methods in battles? Its not how i usually roll. I thought we excluded PIS not CIS. The application of precog during battle for Matthew would be PIS because he doesnt use it. For DG its normal operating method. Chalk and cheese.

This is true, but only because Matt simply time blitz's any threat that comes his way.

Batman yelled at him for overreliance on his powers.

I forgive you.

Originally posted by Surtur
So is the argument a character can't actually do something or that they can do something but just won't because..reasons. Basically is this like "Superman rarely uses his super speed" all over again?

No thats not the argument. If it were i would not have suggested Matthew Tyler gave JLA a chance becasue the only way he does is to use a power he has but has never actually used.

To use your superman speed argument for example. I have no problem with people using Superman's speed as a major factor ina debate. I do have a problem with him blitzing out of the gate because he doesnt operate that way.its a balancing act between powers and character portrayal of their use and MO.

Well this i can agree with.

Originally posted by riv6672
Well this i can agree with.

Thats why i have the stance i do in the other debate. None of those heralds in character go straight out using their full speed. Ergo the normal character portrayals of how Dream Girl operates are a possibility in say 20- 30% of the time especially given she's depicted using them that way so frequently. The likelihood that whee would foresee their move and start to react before they initiate it is higher then them blitzing out of the gate. It therefore becomes a possibility that has greater chance.

As another example i hate the Flash blitzes argument because they dont do that in character. Yet Johnny Quick in character is a bloody hot head who acts before thinking and would blitz out of the gate. Ironically hes often depicted as getting into trouble doing so. Flash>>>> JQ in speed but JQ >>>>>>>Flash in likelihood to blitz.

Flash speed stealing is the Superman blitzing of speedsters.

Originally posted by beatboks
Thats why i have the stance i do in the other debate. None of those heralds in character go straight out using their full speed. Ergo the normal character portrayals of how Dream Girl operates are a possibility in say 20- 30% of the time especially given she's depicted using them that way so frequently. The likelihood that whee would foresee their move and start to react before they initiate it is higher then them blitzing out of the gate. It therefore becomes a possibility that has greater chance.

As another example i hate the Flash blitzes argument because they dont do that in character. Yet Johnny Quick in character is a bloody hot head who acts before thinking and would blitz out of the gate. Ironically hes often depicted as getting into trouble doing so. Flash>>>> JQ in speed but JQ >>>>>>>Flash in likelihood to blitz.

Problem is, you yourself say it: JQ acts without thinking. And blitzes.

Which implies Wally acts WITH thinking. So how long does it take Wally, who was able to out calculate Solaris....to decide to blitz?

Originally posted by riv6672
Flash speed stealing is the Superman blitzing of speedsters.

Well that is the thing though, comics are meant to be stories, anything can happen in a comic. This is why characters forget to use their powers correctly at certain parts.

Superman has high end reflexes and can calculate all kinds of shit in a split second, right? So if he see's a group of people that he knows are very powerful and he knows that basically the safest way to end the fight is to stop it before it even begins...why would he actually allow the fight to happen? Allow all the destruction and mayhem to occur if it can be ended quickly and quietly?

It's not because Superman gets off on destruction, nor is it because he is so dumb he doesn't realize he can use his powers to end the situation before it gets too out of hand and people die..which you would think would be things Superman would want, right? It would in essence be in character for him to want to stop these things before they happen if he could. To end these battles before they can wreck the surroundings. Thus it's not really an "in character" trait he doesn't use his speed, it's just comics. That is how I see it at least. Superman isn't Goku, he doesn't actually get off on the idea of fighting. If it were up to him he'd prevent it.

To be fair that happens a lot, TO a lot of us. A lot of times without really meaning to.

Originally posted by riv6672
To be fair that happens a lot, TO a lot of us. A lot of times without really meaning to.

True,

It's often easier to see the power capability of a character you know and love being dismissed because plot contrivance and not be aware that the same has occurred just as often for who you debate against. Since the character you oppose isn't close to you heart it's easier to forget I guess.

My dad always had a saying, "there are three sides to every story, his, hers and the truth. The truth is always somewhere in the middle, because we each only ever see our side"

Your dad sounds like Matlock.
I mean that as a compliment.

Originally posted by riv6672
Your dad sounds like Matlock.
I mean that as a compliment.

My dad is my real life hero. In his 80's now and a veteran who tomorrow will be the first time I can remember he wont be marchin on Anzac day. Brought me up to believe if you dont stand for something and protect those who cant your of little to no worth. Hes the reason i joined the military and served (family tradition). His entire life all he ever did was make a stand for those who couldnt even after he left the service. When a neighbors wife was being beaten and chased with a knife he stepped in (unarmed i might add). When a women he worked with was being abused we took in her and her 5 kids. When he found out a publican in our town was dealing drugs he went and sorted him out. When someone he worked with wasnt recieving fair treatment my old man knocked some sense into the manager in questionquite literally).

Frankly I'll be lucky if i can ever make myself a quarter theman he is.