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Netflix version of Kingpin takes on Bane from The Dark Knight Rises in a battle to the Death or KO with no BFR allowed...

Who wins?

Bane.

They both have similar strength levels but Bane has better damage soak and is a better skilled fighter.

Fisk punches Bane in the mask and breaks it.

Trashing Baleman really isn't outside of Fisks's abilities.

Just a little note on Banes strength vs Fisks; during Banes second fight against Batman near the end of the movie, Bane was punching through concrete...

I havent seen anything from Fisk to suggest he's at that level of strength...

Bane has comparable physical stats and is a more skilled fighter. Without the mask weakness he can probably win after a hard fight, though as it stands now Bane gets his face splattered.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Fisk punches Bane in the mask and breaks it.
Baleman only broke it with his scallops which could pre-upgrade break Ra's sword. And it was simply re-attached afterwards I doubt Fisk has shown striking power enough to break steel
Not to mention Fisk has a habit of tanking attacks, especially when angered, which won't bode well for him
Bane wins imo

I was trying to antagonize a certain DC fanboy who often lowballs DD characters. I still think Fisk wins. Fact remains that, despite being a really large fellow, he is still fast enough in H2H to give guys like Daredevil a good run for their money. And his blows are strong enough to rock guys as tough as Frank and Matt hard. He also literally has like 7 inches in height advantage (and a proportionate reach advantage), despite Nolan's attempts to make Bane look taller.

Both tough, Bane is more skilled.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Fisk punches Bane in the mask and breaks it.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Just a little note on Banes strength vs Fisks; during Banes second fight against Batman near the end of the movie, Bane was punching through concrete...

I havent seen anything from Fisk to suggest he's at that level of strength...

Bane didn't exactly punch through concrete. If you look at the pillar he punched and the material inside after he punched it, it sure doesn't look like solid concrete.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bane didn't exactly punch through concrete. If you look at the pillar he punched and the material inside after he punched it, it sure doesn't look like solid concrete.
Meet what Tv tropes call the special effects failure

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Meet what Tv tropes call the special effects failure



its a movie for f@cks sake its not real, Try Suspension of disbelief.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Meet what Tv tropes call the special effects failure

That's probably it.

It's akin to spotting a wire for a stunt and saying the character wasn't really flying/jumping.

Originally posted by Kazenji


its a movie for f@cks sake its not real, Try Suspension of disbelief.
Is that directed towoards me or Froth? Doesn't matter anyway.

Originally posted by Placidity
That's probably it.

It's akin to spotting a wire for a stunt and saying the character wasn't really flying/jumping.

Or you could call it as you see it: in which case there's no proof that what he punched was concrete.

If people really want to claim that Bane is strong enough to punch through concrete they need to prove it.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bane didn't exactly punch through concrete. If you look at the pillar he punched and the material inside after he punched it, it sure doesn't look like solid concrete. They use more than just concrete for things that are used as structural support.

Science.

What is Fisk's best strength feat? If it's one based on powerscaling, give me the strength feats of the character he is stronger than.

edit: So, I just watched this scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEmjRNHKefY

Is there anything more impressive than this? Because nothing in this fight makes me think Fisk is as strong as Baleman, much less Bane.

Beating weakened/already beat up versions of Daredevil and Frank.

Oh and the Russian guy.

Originally posted by Adam Grimes
Beating weakened/already beat up versions of Daredevil and Frank.

Oh and the Russian guy. Yeah but given the hype I figured this dude would be some huge powerhouse. Yet from what a friend of mine who has seen the first season is telling me, Fisk is just some big ****er who is pretty strong, but perfectly within reasonable human parameters for his build and height.

Men of Baleman's height and build aren't anywhere near as strong as him, considering he curled a two hundred+ pound man (Liam Neeson) and threw him over himself to save him.

Similarly, Bane grabbed Baleman by the neck and lifted him clear over his head before walking with him, which is a feat no man on the planet can replicate if I'm correct. The Thomas Inch Dumbell is extremely hard to lift due to its 178 pound weight and due to the size of its grip. Batman's armoured neck is thicker, and he weighs over two hundred pounds.

How exactly does Bane not literally beat Fisk to death with his bare hands?

Strength is not the only aspect in a fight. What about speed, skill and durability?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Strength is not the only aspect in a fight. What about speed, skill and durability? Hey man sure.

Fisk looked slow as **** and was being rocked by Daredevil in that fight, whereas Bane could literally take a punch from Baleman to the face without flinching. Fisk is also clearly a brawler, whereas Bane is allegedly a martial artist, but frankly, who cares? Skill means nothing if the person you're fighting is much tougher, stronger, and more skilled than you.

The more I learn the more I think Baleman could literally strangle Fisk to death with Fisk's only response being to impotently try to pry his hands from his throat.

I have yet to finish DD S2, I'm currently on episode 4 iirc. I hope Fisk does something in the remaining episodes to justify the hype he gets here.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Hey man sure.

Fisk looked slow as **** and was being rocked by Daredevil in that fight, whereas Bane could literally take a punch from Baleman to the face without flinching. Fisk is also clearly a brawler, whereas Bane is allegedly a martial artist, but frankly, who cares? Skill means nothing if the person you're fighting is much tougher, stronger, and more skilled than you.

The more I learn the more I think Baleman could literally strangle Fisk to death with Fisk's only response being to impotently try to pry his hands from his throat. "More skilled" was meant to be "faster".

Fisk was slower than DD, but could still land plenty of hits. And DD can catch/dodge arrows, aim dodge and flip through automatic fire, casually dodge multiple shurikens tossed at him etc.
Fisk also took repeated blows from those billy clubs, with which we see DD easily one-shot KO people in S2 on several occasions, even just with tosses. Not to mention the several other hard blows he takes (he took Matt's blows about as good as Frank has IMO). During his prison fight with Frank, he also took a heavy combo of hits that would have been enough to heavily rock Daredevil and likely at least briefly knock him down (based on the fights between Matt & Frank) and barely stumbled. And people who have in fact actually watched the show know just how tough those two are, so Fisk showing a comparable ability to take their hits should be a good indication of how tough he is.
As for strength, he was a lot stronger than Matt, who himself could pick up and throw Fisk relatively easily. He also flipped a huge marble table in s1, while pissed, and also decap'd a guy with a car door. And in season 2 he was bench pressing several hundred lbs before meeting with Frank, and was barely breathing hard afterwards.

And what's more, Bane fought a old, beaten-up, out-of-retirement Batman, so it isn't even like he fought Bruce at his prime, like Ra's did.

Fisk dominates. Bane beat Baleman; woopdee doo. Baleman looks like he is on muscle relaxers when he fights. Also, that wasn't even Baleman in his prime. It was an older and beat up Baleman at the end of his career. Bane gets stomped hard.

I doubt anyone brought up Bane beating Baleman. It was him tossing around Baleman which is impressive due to Baleman's weight

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
I doubt anyone brought up Bane beating Baleman. It was him tossing around Baleman which is impressive due to Baleman's weight Not tossing him around. Lifting him (while he was fully armoured) by the neck and over his head with one hand.

I don't think people appreciate how insanely strong that is. There isn't a human being alive who could replicate that as far as I'm aware.

Originally posted by CPT Space Bomb
Fisk dominates. Bane beat Baleman; woopdee doo. Baleman looks like he is on muscle relaxers when he fights. Also, that wasn't even Baleman in his prime. It was an older and beat up Baleman at the end of his career. Bane gets stomped hard. Fisk is too weak, slow, and frail to beat Bane.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Fisk is too weak, slow, and frail to beat Bane.
What?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Fisk was slower than DD, but could still land plenty of hits.

So?

The slowest boxer can land hits on the fastest boxer if the fastest boxer isn't literally running away from the slow one, as long as the slow boxer can take a bunch of the fast one's hits. Being faster in a fight doesn't make you untouchable, it improves your hit landed/hit received ratio. A faster fighter might land four punches for every one the slow one throws, for example.



Link?



And Baleman one-shot KOs people with his fists, yet Bane could literally take a bunch from Baleman without any reaction.



As far as I can tell, Baleman is literally physically stronger than any of them and Bane took combos from him without any reaction. So why is that impressive, in the context of this thread?



Are you referring to his judo flip in the fight I posted?



I could decapitate a guy with a car door. So could you. It isn't hard to pulp a man's head by repeatedly slamming a car door on it.



That Batman could also kick right through a brick wall once he got his aids, and was able to get himself back in shape for their second fight, which Bane was still dominating until his mask was broken.

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
What? What confuses you?

Fisk is no weakling, and Matt/Frank is definitely in the same strength class as Baleman and much faster as well. He has taken out hordes of armed men in straight up fist-fights while injured and won. The only reason he won against Fisk despite being fresh was due to his bulletproof armor and speed, and was getting his ass kicked otherwise. Bane will win but he is not walking all over Fisk like he did to Baleman. He will have the fight of his life

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
Fisk is no weakling, and Matt/Frank is definitely in the same strength class as Baleman and much faster as well. He has taken out hordes of armed men in straight up fist-fights while injured and won. The only reason he won against Fisk despite being fresh was due to his bulletproof armor and speed, and was getting his ass kicked otherwise. Bane will win but he is not walking all over Fisk like he did to Baleman. He will have the fight of his life Based on? Nothing I've seen has convinced me that Bane couldn't literally beat Fisk to death with his bare hands without sustaining any injury.

Based on what is he in the same strength class as a man who can curl over two hundred pounds while prone and compromised and toss him over his body?

Also, bullshit. In that video I posted Fisk was ****ing dominated by Daredevil for most of the fight, with size and strength being the only thing posing a problem against Daredevil. Bane is stronger according to everything I've seen, and though Fisk's actor is bigger, Bane is clearly meant to be taller than Tom Hardy so the size difference isn't that large (he's depicted as clearly taller than Baleman, who is 6'0".

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bane didn't exactly punch through concrete. If you look at the pillar he punched and the material inside after he punched it, it sure doesn't look like solid concrete.

Its so funny to see people post this kind of crap.

Concrete isn't concrete now

Originally posted by NemeBro
So?

The slowest boxer can land hits on the fastest boxer if the fastest boxer isn't literally running away from the slow one, as long as the slow boxer can take a bunch of the fast one's hits. Being faster in a fight doesn't make you untouchable, it improves your hit landed/hit received ratio. A faster fighter might land four punches for every one the slow one throws, for example.



Link?



And Baleman one-shot KOs people with his fists, yet Bane could literally take a bunch from Baleman without any reaction.



As far as I can tell, Baleman is literally physically stronger than any of them and Bane took combos from him without any reaction. So why is that impressive, in the context of this thread?



Are you referring to his judo flip in the fight I posted?



I could decapitate a guy with a car door. So could you. It isn't hard to pulp a man's head by repeatedly slamming a car door on it.



That Batman could also kick right through a brick wall once he got his aids, and was able to get himself back in shape for their second fight, which Bane was still dominating until his mask was broken.

You should really watch the show yourself, because I am not listing 2 seasons worth of feats for these guys, just to give you a more informed perspective on the scaling.

To elaborate in one area, you can only appreciate the damage soak thing if you actually watch the show and witness the unbelievable amounts of punishment these guys can take. For example, Bats landing on Bane's knee totally took him out of that fight. Punisher takes a 15-20 foot drop off a water tower, lands spine first on the edge of a metal roof, bounces off and falls another 10+ feet, and gets back up and keeps fighting like nothing. And we see how DD & Frank affect each other with hits, how they affect normal people, and how they affect Fisk, so we can work out how tough he is based on that. But again, unless you have actually watched the show, no amount of explaining is going to help.

I think we all watch the shows differently, whats the point of arguing about it anymore?

Netflix DD feat list
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/daredevil-429/mcuneflix-daredevil-respect-thread-1775436/

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
I think we all watch the shows differently, whats the point of arguing about it anymore?

It gives people something to do while they download porn or something?

I mostly use this site to keep track of all the latest news and trailers for things. People on this forum are usually really on the ball when it comes to those things.

The movie forum is great but these vs forums are just filled with bias, fanboism and flat out lies.

Well, there are people who do debate fairly. The issue is that it often feels like this is more the KMC Poster Versus forum than the Movie Versus forum. So the characters in question actually become a secondary matter in the battle of egos. A lot of threads end up becoming little more than flame wars because of it. But eh, guess I am just an over-optimistic fool, because I keep diving back into the fire.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, there are people who do debate fairly. The issue is that it often feels like this is more the KMC Poster Versus forum than the Movie Versus forum. So the characters in question actually become a secondary matter in the battle of egos. A lot of threads end up becoming little more than flame wars because of it. But eh, guess I am just an over-optimistic fool, because I keep diving back into the fire.
http://img.picturequotes.com/2/252/251967/the-spiritual-warrior-hides-from-nothing-we-jump-into-the-fire-we-dive-into-the-ocean-we-become-the-quote-1.jpg

I prefer to stick to over-optimistic fool. People will have lower expectations.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
The movie forum is great but these vs forums are just filled with bias, fanboism and flat out lies.

That's rich coming from you.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Not tossing him around. Lifting him (while he was fully armoured) by the neck and over his head with one hand.

I don't think people appreciate how insanely strong that is. There isn't a human being alive who could replicate that as far as I'm aware.


Is this a strength competition or a fight? Ask yourself this: Who do you think would win in a fight between Baleman and DD?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
You should really watch the show yourself, because I am not listing 2 seasons worth of feats for these guys, just to give you a more informed perspective on the scaling.

To elaborate in one area, you can only appreciate the damage soak thing if you actually watch the show and witness the unbelievable amounts of punishment these guys can take. For example, Bats landing on Bane's knee totally took him out of that fight. Punisher takes a 15-20 foot drop off a water tower, lands spine first on the edge of a metal roof, bounces off and falls another 10+ feet, and gets back up and keeps fighting like nothing. And we see how DD & Frank affect each other with hits, how they affect normal people, and how they affect Fisk, so we can work out how tough he is based on that. But again, unless you have actually watched the show, no amount of explaining is going to help. Then don't list two seasons worth of feats.

List the best ones.

What is Fisk's best strength feat, and if he doesn't have any particularly impressive feats what is the best strength feat of the strongest character he overpowered?

Bats landing on Bane's knee took him out of the fight after Bats spent the entire rest of the fight taking punches from a guy who broke a mask designed to withstand a glancing blow from a bullet, before having his spine nearly broken. The levels of force isn't comparable. By feats, Bane hits harder based on everything I've looked up and been shown.

"No amount of explaining", lol, get out of here with that bullshit, just link the best strength feat by a character Fisk can be powerscaled off of or of Fisk himself.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Is this a strength competition or a fight? Strength and toughness are just about the only things Fisk has going for him, so it is effectively the only relevant trait to be discussed since basically everyone has admitted that Bane is faster.

Daredevil appears to actually have some level of fighting ability beyond brawling, and while I am pretty confident that Baleman is physically stronger than Daredevil, Daredevil's enhanced senses and probably superior speed (I say probably because a lot of Baleman's sluggishness is frankly a result of pretty bad choreography, and I can't recall any feats of note) could net him the win.

But see, Fisk doesn't have speed on Bane. He doesn't have fighting ability. And frankly, he doesn't have strength or endurance on him either.

Based on everything said in this thread, all I've seen, and everything I've been told by my friend who has watched the series, Bane would dominate Fisk in hand to hand. He'd literally kill him.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Fisk was slower than DD, but could still land plenty of hits. And DD can catch/dodge arrows, aim dodge and flip through automatic fire, casually dodge multiple shurikens tossed at him etc.
Fisk also took repeated blows from those billy clubs, with which we see DD easily one-shot KO people in S2 on several occasions, even just with tosses. Not to mention the several other hard blows he takes (he took Matt's blows about as good as Frank has IMO). During his prison fight with Frank, he also took a heavy combo of hits that would have been enough to heavily rock Daredevil and likely at least briefly knock him down (based on the fights between Matt & Frank) and barely stumbled. And people who have in fact actually watched the show know just how tough those two are, so Fisk showing a comparable ability to take their hits should be a good indication of how tough he is.
As for strength, he was a lot stronger than Matt, who himself could pick up and throw Fisk relatively easily. He also flipped a huge marble table in s1, while pissed, and also decap'd a guy with a car door. And in season 2 he was bench pressing several hundred lbs before meeting with Frank, and was barely breathing hard afterwards.

And what's more, Bane fought a old, beaten-up, out-of-retirement Batman, so it isn't even like he fought Bruce at his prime, like Ra's did.

Pretty spot on

For all those saying Bane wins, are you also saying that Baleman can beat DD?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Then don't list two seasons worth of feats.

List the best ones.

What is Fisk's best strength feat, and if he doesn't have any particularly impressive feats what is the best strength feat of the strongest character he overpowered?

Bats landing on Bane's knee took him out of the fight after Bats spent the entire rest of the fight taking punches from a guy who broke a mask designed to withstand a glancing blow from a bullet, before having his spine nearly broken. The levels of force isn't comparable. By feats, Bane hits harder based on everything I've looked up and been shown.

"No amount of explaining", lol, get out of here with that bullshit, just link the best strength feat by a character Fisk can be powerscaled off of or of Fisk himself.

Well, he can bench press this much, and didn't seem particularly worn out afterwards.

85WlJ4auw18


Also, the point of bringing up Daredevil's speed is to show that if Fisk can tag a guy who is faster than either TDKR Batman or Bane, then he will have less trouble tagging either of them. And also, while Fisk seems slower relative to Daredevil, that doesn't automatically mean he is slower than Bane.

Batman and Bane are both pretty slow fighters. That has always been the problem with the TDK trilogy. As far as choreography goes, Fisk is portrayed faster than Bane.

As for a high end strength feat of someone else to scale off of, Matt could do this. Now the billy club did play some part (if nothing else, it would have made throwing Nobu somewhat easier than if he had grabbed him by the neck with his hand), but a good chunk of that was Matt's strength:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186914/5107086-7093679122-y2LcR.gif

And Matt, while seemingly a bit stronger in season 2 than in season 1, is still not close to Fisk's equal in strength.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Batman and Bane are both pretty slow fighters. That has always been the problem with the TDK trilogy. As far as choreography goes, Fisk is portrayed faster than Bane.



Christopher Nolan did an excellent job building a convincing world filled with likable characters, tense moments, and the story telling was top notch...

BUT, the choreography of the combat scenes left something to be desired; that could have been done better...

Batman didnt kick @ss as well as I would have liked; this is the one area where Snyder's Batman outdid Nolan's...

Yeah. The Nolan Batman films are a great comic book movie trilogy in terms of story and characters, but the fight/combat scenes left much to be desired.

I'm thinking it probably had the worst fight scenes in any cbm within the last decade. Though Ghost Rider might be up there as well

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, he can bench press this much, and didn't seem particularly worn out afterwards.

85WlJ4auw18


Also, the point of bringing up Daredevil's speed is to show that if Fisk can tag a guy who is faster than either TDKR Batman or Bane, then he will have less trouble tagging either of them. And also, while Fisk seems slower relative to Daredevil, that doesn't automatically mean he is slower than Bane. All right, those look like 45 pound plates on the barbell, so combined with the bar (assuming a standard 45 pounds) that would put the weight just under five hundred pounds.

Impressive? Of course it is.

But men who can bench press five hundred pounds can't lift the Thomas Inch Dumbell, which is 178 pounds and has a thick grip that is hard to get a hold off. Not as heavy as an armoured Baleman, nor is its grip as thick as Baleman's armoured neck. Yet Bane lifted him above his head (this is more difficult than bench-pressing by the way) and easily walked with him.

Fisk can tag a guy who is faster than them because he's tough enough to withstand his blows. Baleman and especially Bane are stronger than Daredevil. Bane hits much harder than Daredevil or Fisk.

Sure, what makes him slower than Bane is that I watched the video and he's clearly slower than Bane.

Bane can catch a punch from Batman. Not block (not that I saw Fisk doing much of that either), catch.

Has Fisk shown reflexes or fighting speed on that level?

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm thinking it probably had the worst fight scenes in any cbm within the last decade. Though Ghost Rider might be up there as well Yeah they're pretty bad.

That doesn't mean the characters are weak.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
As for a high end strength feat of someone else to scale off of, Matt could do this. Now the billy club did play some part (if nothing else, it would have made throwing Nobu somewhat easier than if he had grabbed him by the neck with his hand), but a good chunk of that was Matt's strength:

http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186914/5107086-7093679122-y2LcR.gif

And Matt, while seemingly a bit stronger in season 2 than in season 1, is still not close to Fisk's equal in strength. To be blunt, I have no idea if this feat is physically possible (technically neither is Bane's neck lift of Batman because Bane simply isn't heavy enough to keep himself from falling), much less how impressive it is. If someone more knowledgeable in physics like dadudemon were to look at it they might be able to give an idea, but I don't really know. Gut instinct is it isn't as good as bench-pressing five hundred pounds or the Batman neck lift, nor the Liam Neeson one-armed curl.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Batman and Bane are both pretty slow fighters. That has always been the problem with the TDK trilogy. As far as choreography goes, Fisk is portrayed faster than Bane. Do you have some scene of Fisk's I haven't seen?

Because Fisk is slow. He only gets hits in by powering through DD's blows and bull rushing him. I frankly haven't seen anything to indicate he is faster than Bane.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
As for a high end strength feat of someone else to scale off of, Matt could do this. Now the billy club did play some part (if nothing else, it would have made throwing Nobu somewhat easier than if he had grabbed him by the neck with his hand), but a good chunk of that was Matt's strength:
http://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11118/111186914/5107086-7093679122-y2LcR.gif
And Matt, while seemingly a bit stronger in season 2 than in season 1, is still not close to Fisk's equal in strength.
Due to sloppy editing (I could clearly differentiate there were different guys in the same suits), I had watch this scene several times over to see what happened. So Daredevil ties his billy club cable over Nobu's neck and throws him high into the air off the ledge. Impressive.
On a slightly unrelated note I really find it funny everyone always goes on about the pillar breaking feat for Bane, when his better feats are actually snapping his handcuffs with zero effort, casually breaking a guys neck with a squeeze, and breaking Batman's cowl wit his punches, which was made of a graphite composite and another guy in the same movie, hurt his hands hitting on while Batman was completely unhurt.