Zakuul vs. the Galactic Empire

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The Ellimist
Zakuul's fleet is eternal, how can the Empire compare?

Zakuul stomps

Zenwolf
GE, Zakuul have done nothing other than destroy a weakened Empire and Republic....I guess that's...nice, but hardly worth much when both sides have been constantly fighting and lost a lot of resources + good leadership and commanders.

There's also the point of neither the Empire or Republic have anywhere near the fleet power and logistics of the GE nor the manpower, especially during the time when Zakuul attacked.

Zakuul's biggest advantage is their Zakuul Knights, other than that...they have 0 commanders of note, 0 Special Forces(other than the ZKs) and less resources.

GE has all of this and a much, much bigger pool of resources to draw from, along with their super weapons.

GE is way better at being able to do multiple tasks weither it be straight fighting, espionage, sabotage, assassination, etc and so on. Far greater Commanders in Thrawn, Piett, Veers, Vader, etc

FreshestSlice
Empire loses to teddy bears, but I'm sure they can take on the most technologically advanced fleet ever seen.

Tondemonai
Zakuul. I'll post reasons later

The Ellimist
Lol this was supposed to be a joke, has TOR wank gotten so bad some of you actually think Zakuul could win?

Zenwolf
I don't see how, given they haven't done anything spectacular and have little to no information on their capabilities. Their Knights are the only impressive thing, but that's not winning them an entire war. They don't really have any answers for the Empire's super weapons either.

Nephthys
"Their Knights are the only impressive thing".

Yeah, surely not the Eternal Fleet or anything. Nope.

The answer to the Empires super weapons is a torpedo and a Jedi with a few hours of training, lol.

The Ellimist
^ (ninjad by Neph) the Empire underwent the largest military buildup in galactic history, adding onto a 3000 year technological edge, superweapons as you mentioned, and a million world + 50 million colony industrial base.

Zenwolf
The Fleet has been in all of one battle, that's nice but it wasn't really anything overly impressive. They didn't show anything that other fleets of later wouldn't be able to do. If you mean their invasion, again that's nice, but it was against two factions who had been slugging it out for some time(depleting resources and losing viable commanders) and then the Fleet just came in and caught both flat footed.

The Ellimist
> Neph thinks the eternal fleet can rival the imperial star fleet

laughing out loud TOR wank has truly become a cancer

I'm not on my laptop sadly

The_Tempest
Anyone who's interacted with Neph for any reasonable length of time can track his descent into madness. My theory is that he's finally crumbled beneath pressure from various posters, such as carthage, who have not only refuted many of his deeply-held beliefs, but relentlessly mocked and tormented him. He's openly embraced his heresy and has situated himself alongside LeGenD.

Nephthys
I didn't say Zakuul wins or any of that shit. I was just pointing out that saying Zakuul's Knights are their only impressive thing is moronic.

God so kneejerk.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't say Zakuul wins or any of that shit. I was just pointing out that saying Zakuul's Knights are their only impressive thing is moronic.

God so kneejerk.

The mistreatment you experience is deplorable. erm

Zenwolf
Compared to the other things, they kind of are. The Fleet is ok, but I'm not really seeing how it stands out in doing what other fleets could do, the Skytroopers are alright.

The Ellimist
thumb up

The Ellimist
What if Zakuul Knights block the Death Star?

EmperorSidious2
Originally posted by Zenwolf
The Fleet has been in all of one battle, that's nice but it wasn't really anything overly impressive. They didn't show anything that other fleets of later wouldn't be able to do. If you mean their invasion, again that's nice, but it was against two factions who had been slugging it out for some time(depleting resources and losing viable commanders) and then the Fleet just came in and caught both flat footed.

The Merchant
Empire probs. The fact that they can create a Death Star shows their industry. Also since they're one of the few factions that has stats assigned to them we have a solid working on their firepower. I dunno much about the Zakuul but most things in regards to tech around that time don't really impress me.

Tondemonai
Technology wise, there's no refuting GE's superiority. Numbers-wise, however, is debatable. I don't dispute the massive industry that the GE has over Zakuul, but consider that they have knowledge of the GE's territory where Zakuul's is largely unknown to the rest of the Galaxy, and possesses the major advantage of the Knights. We also have the numbers advantage of major Force-sensitive leaders in favor of Zakuul (Arcann, Vaylin, presumably Thexan vs Vader). We also know that the synergy of EE is superior to that of the GE with the Gemini and all commands coming purely from the Eternal Throne. The SSD's of the GE are a major problem, for sure, but they're not indescribable, not a sure trump card. The Death Star is definitely a problem as well, but it's far from improbable that Zakuul can take it out. Looking at the scale of just three units, it can easily be noted that the Eternal Fleet is infinitely larger than the GE. Observe this image (ignore the paceman stuff)

Tondemonai
Also note how he calls one of the units "nine-eight-three." We can easily deduce that by this statement there are at least 983 units in the EF. Imagine that scale. There's no way the GE can cope with those numbers, let alone the GEMINI coordination.

SunRazer
What? The GE is vaster than the EE, lol.

I don't know if we count Thexan, since he dies before the game.

Tondemonai
Did you consider the image I supplied and the points I made in the next post?

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Tondemonai
Also note how he calls one of the units "nine-eight-three." We can easily deduce that by this statement there are at least 983 units in the EF. Imagine that scale. There's no way the GE can cope with those numbers, let alone the GEMINI coordination.

Lol serial codes never actually give the number of units unless if Valk is an idiot (well then maybe they do...)

I'm on my phone; the Galactic Empire has fleets of millions of cruisers and other ships, and it constructed the second Death Star in secret in like 6 months to half completion. The 900 km second DS has the volume of like 90 billion star destroyers or something. And this isn't including their stupid technological advantage, Galaxy guns, sun crushers, etc.

This was supposed to be a spite and it is.

Zenwolf
Also one thing as I look at it, the EF lacks sorely in firepower, I count like...4(6?) turbolasers at most on each of the cruisers. They seem to rely on numbers, which is great....but they aren't fighting any fleets here that are lacking firepower, along with torpedo/missile tubes and Ion cannon weaponry and strong shielding, this just being a regular Imperial class 1 ISD.

The SSDs can tank 3 ISD Destroyers crashing into it and come out unharmed and just has a wall of firepower to unload.

The ZE starfighters we literally know nothing of, the GE has superior fighters in terms of versatility and better pilots as I see it(being the best in the galaxy, only 10% actually get flight commissions and above average reflexes of a normal pilot.)

Also the ZK having more Force Users in Command doesn't mean much, when they aren't nearly as tactful as Thrawn, Vader, Piett and Veers, Arcann has some experience....but nothing compared to the former 4.

The GE also has better and more versatile ground troopers and ground support. The ZE has Knights sure....but the GE has Army Troopers, Stormtroopers, Dark Troopers, Royal Guardsmen(and Shadow Troopers), Emperor Hands, Imperial Special Forces, ground support in the form of Walkers and Repulsorlift vehicles and airship support, tanks and the like.

Also what of their Intelligence Agency? As far as I know, the ZE literally has 0 for Intelligence, the GE has a pretty damn impressive Intelligence Agency which if they get their hands on ZE tech they could use said tech to their advantage in exploiting weaknesses.

FreshestSlice
Kek

Tondemonai
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Also one thing as I look at it, the EF lacks sorely in firepower, I count like...4(6?) turbolasers at most on each of the cruisers. They seem to rely on numbers, which is great....but they aren't fighting any fleets here that are lacking firepower, along with torpedo/missile tubes and Ion cannon weaponry and strong shielding, this just being a regular Imperial class 1 ISD.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9VHrjv0MSy8 28:30



Video can be related to this as well, though as I said in previous posts they are a major threat, however, not an instant trump card nor indestructible foe.



Granted



Zakuul has plenty of tanks, walkers, Skytroopers for days, the Exarch, the Star Fortress', shall I go on?



Granted, that is a large advantage. However, consider the roll the Scions could play in this regard. The precog they have is insane, and could be used in a way of anticipating attacks/pinpointing where bases/fleets are and what to strike at/what the layout is of the area. Valkorion used the Scions to locate the Eternal Fleet, who's to say they can't locate the exact placement of specific forces, super weapons, and commanders?

Edit: I don't disagree that the GE has superior vehicles and such, just that it's far from overshadowing Zakuul. The walkers the EE uses are not as advanced as the AT-AT, but are similar to the AT-ST in terms of versatility/ease of movement, and are far more heavily armed. The Knights would only really be threatened by the walkers (AT-AT's primarily, AT-ST's are less of a problem), the Inquisitors (if in individual fights, not in the badass af phalanx thing they do with the Force shields and Force Pikes), Shadow guard (same situation), and hands (similar case, but less so).

The Ellimist
How does the Empire defeat the ground realities of Zakuul, and it have hype in encyclopedic medium?

Zenwolf
Tond, I'm not recalling any ZE walkers, just drop ships, their Knights, droids and Skytroopers, where were Walkers again?

The answer to the Scions, would be the Prophets of the Darkside, who could do similar. Adding in Palpatine also who has great ability in seeing the future and predicting outcomes, he regularly visited with the Prophets to see every single possibility of any outcome.

FreshestSlice
There's a walker in Chapter 8.

Zenwolf
Alright I see the Recon Walker, yeah seems comparable to an AT-ST weaponry wise, although the ST seems to have a slight greater firepower output in its twin laser cannons compared to the Recon's one, a slight thing but they are comparable.

The Ellimist
Zakuul has too many fleets and weapons and hype

The Ellimist
who wins?

Zenwolf
Think I covered this, the GE, it has far more to work with. There's not a whole lot on Zakuul that would really turn it into their favor. It's not helping that Zakuul is more or less taking a backseat in all this KoTFE storyline.

The Ellimist
I know.

But isn't Zakuul's fleet ancient and eternal?

Zenwolf
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I know.

But isn't Zakuul's fleet ancient and eternal?

So was the Infinite Empire. Doesn't matter.

FreshestSlice
We knows next to no nothing about the Eternal fleet, or the Infinite fleet, for that matter, so I'm not sure why we keep making definite statements.

The Ellimist
But the fleet is ETERNAL!

FreshestSlice
And the Galactic Empire won't lose because of their technological superiority to teddy bears. Things change. uhuh

The Ellimist
Actually the Empire was crushing the Ewoks until Chewie hijacked the AT-ST. thumb up

Nonetheless Valkorion says his Empire will last forever, how can the Galactic Empire stop it then?

FreshestSlice
Not only is one AT-ST turning a battle ridiculous, Chewbacca is just a bigger teddy bear.

Zenwolf
Not sure how it's ridiculous, one thing could turn an entire battle around if done right.

At any rate, Ell it's clearly not lasting forever.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by Nephthys
"Their Knights are the only impressive thing".

Yeah, surely not the Eternal Fleet or anything. Nope.

The answer to the Empires super weapons is a torpedo and a Jedi with a few hours of training, lol.

This is what happens when Ellimist desperately tries to create a troll thread. IT backfires as usual.

The Ellimist
I dunno. I've been nominated for best debater, and you never were. mmm

MS Warehouse
Yea, you sure HAVE been dominated. laughing out loud

The nerd rage must be a trip laughing out loud laughing out loud

NewGuy01
Originally posted by The Ellimist
I dunno. I've been dominated for best debater, and you never were. mmm

Oh, indeed.

The Ellimist
Ack, stupid typo. smile

Nonetheless, my point stands. thumb up

MS Warehouse
For the first time, you ARE right thumb up

The Ellimist
Well I had just put you on ignore but I didn't see this reply:

It's telling that you couldn't actually respond to that observation, and so you could only make fun of the typo. I'm better than you nah nah nah.

MS Warehouse
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Well I had just put you on ignore but I didn't see this reply:

It's telling that you couldn't actually respond to that observation, and so you could only make fun of the typo. I'm better than you nah nah nah.


That's your observation wrapped up into every post. And for someone who claims he wins all the time, you're definitely looking sadder by the minute by accusing me of "I'm better than you" tactics. I guess this is another case in which you completely misunderstand irony laughing out loud

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