Revan 3.0 vs. Exar Kun

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The Ellimist
1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

Battle takes place in front of Bane's disembodied, eternally tormented spirit.

Lord Stark
Lol even that muggle on Yavin Station comments on how Revan and Malak are jokes compared to Exar Kun excellent

Trocity
Revan force and all out.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol even that muggle on Yavin Station comments on how Revan and Malak are jokes compared to Exar Kun excellent

And Janus believed that Palpatine was a joke next to Darth Malak. I'm not sure if we should take random, uninformed opinions very seriously.

Syndicate
Undecided.
Exar Kun.
Exar Kun.

NewGuy01
Revan.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Undecided.
Exar Kun.
Exar Kun.

Why state opinions you aren't ready to defend? They're as irrelevant as the Outlander.

FreshestSlice
So literally the most important thing since Yeezus?

Syndicate
Because it's KMC.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Lol even that muggle on Yavin Station comments on how Revan and Malak are jokes compared to Exar Kun excellent
You got it wrong. That Rodian never said such a thing.

In-fact, if you carry the conversation, you notice a parallel being drawn between Exar Kun and Darth Malak.

Tondemonai
Originally posted by Trocity
Revan force and all out.

EmperorSidious2
Revan

AncientPower
How many times has this thread been made? I mean the answer is obvious to anyone who doesn't think accolades = dueling feats, but really.

The Ellimist
Exar Kun in all IMO.

The Ellimist
^

Force: Spirit Exar Kun's performance against Luke impresses me more than anything Revan's done.

Sabers: In addition to his general reputation as an elite duelist, Exar was innovative enough with a blade to develop his own saberstaff style. Revan has done pretty much nothing except beat Malak and get vaguely referred to as a great duelist. His abilities are unknown more than anything, but given the high bar Kun is setting here, it's more probable than not given average values and signals of his accolades, etc. that Revan < Kun.

All-out: well, see the two above.

Jmanghan
Originally posted by The Ellimist
^

Force: Spirit Exar Kun's performance against Luke impresses me more than anything Revan's done.

Sabers: In addition to his general reputation as an elite duelist, Exar was innovative enough with a blade to develop his own saberstaff style. Revan has done pretty much nothing except beat Malak and get vaguely referred to as a great duelist. His abilities are unknown more than anything, but given the high bar Kun is setting here, it's more probable than not given average values and signals of his accolades, etc. that Revan < Kun.

All-out: well, see the two above. If we're meant to take Exar Kun's beating Luke seriously, then that would make him in the Top 5 Force Users ever.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Revan.
Completely dominates. thumb up

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Force: Spirit Exar Kun's performance against Luke impresses me more than anything Revan's done.
His triumph over Skywalker came, at large part, due to the aid of the also powerful Kyp Durran and the fact he was unleashing powers that Skywalker never trained against.

Thanks to Revan's immense knowledge in the dark arts and the fact Kyp Durran won't be helping Exar Kun, he should be fine.


A reputation that Revan also had.


A style that is perfect for Revan to defend against.


Recognize that Revan has far more impressive combat feats than Exar Kun.

Stalemating Droma and besting Baas with all his power isn't more impressive than beating Darth Malak after running through the greatest gauntlet in the mythos, or defeating "hundreds" of Sith on the nexus of Korriban after fighting two terentatek and the academy headmasters solo.


They're known enough for us to conclude he's the better.


A relatively low bar.

The_Tempest
AP vs Ant? Intriguing.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Kun wank just became even more irrelevant.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
AP vs Ant? Intriguing.
Elm's not AP?

The_Tempest
ILS would solo, but I'd like to see AP/Ant. Ant's definitely honed his craft. His progress is most pleasing.

Ant, I meant id like to see you spar with AP.

DarthAnt66
I've took on Kulvax more times than Thrawn can count. erm

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
ILS would solo
Because he has Sheev > Vitiate? wink

The_Tempest
I never paid attention to those instances. Now is the time.

Nah. If that were the case, I'd put ANYONE who has Sheev > Vitiate over you.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by The_Tempest
ILS would solo, but I'd like to see AP/Ant. Ant's definitely honed his craft. His progress is most pleasing.

Ant, I meant id like to see you spar with AP.
It's not as entertaining as it sounds. AP has grown progressively weaker for some time.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ILS is focused on the more...important things in life. smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's not as entertaining as it sounds. AP has grown progressively weaker for some time.

AP seems to summon sufficient energy to defend Kun. Her wankery against Ant's would fascinate me.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
ILS is focused on the more...important things in life. smile


Her's smart.

DarthAnt66
It would probably go down like this:

Originally posted by AncientPower
Exar Kun has been confirmed to be one of the most powerful Sith Lords of all time, his multiple comparisons to Darth Sidious certainly backs up the view point that he is on the absolute top-tier.

He proves he is on the top-tier by amping Kyp Durron to beyond Darth Vader's power, whilst still nothing but a spirit, with only some of his own lost power and 'vast reserves' made up for by drawing on Kyp, Gantoris and Streen. Even the temple's focal points could only sustain his will, not make up any measure of power for him.

That legitimately confirms that Exar Kun as a 'disembodied will' in the Jedi Academy Trilogy was only at a fraction of his power. This meaning that in his prime in TOTJ, he's capable of fully overwhelming a fully defensive JA!Luke tier combatant; whom had already achieved ROTJ Darth Vader's prowess.

Guess who else could easily defeat DE/JA Luke? Reborn Palpatine, whom Luke repeatedly compares Kun to.

These repeated comparisons are adhered to, by the fact that Exar Kun's spirit was an extremely powerful focal point/nexus of Dark Side energy; just like Darth Sidious had been.

Now hold your horses, I am by no means implying that Exar Kun is as powerful as the most powerful Sith ever; I am simply stating that these accolades, feats, and hype prove Exar Kun's power is on the lower end of the top tier Force Users in the mythos.

People can ignorantly claim this to be nothing but unsubstantiated wank, but I await a serious rebuttal.

On the other side of things, I actually place Revan on the same tier of power. His ability to Tutaminis the Force Lightning of Sith Emperor Vitiate, and successfully take on the Coalition Forces leaders, then only lose due to an enemy amp; are both feats strong enough to support his accolades/hype as a legendary top Force User.

In terms of knowledge, Exar Kun knew of techniques that a Luke Skywalker- whom was going all-out defensively, with every technique he knew- was utterly over-whelmed and described as futile in his efforts.

That isn't just some drain hax or some other generic sorcery attack, that's about as strong a technique as we have seen a sorcerer utilise in combat.

In terms of dueling, Kun is an unparalelled master of Niman and has incorporated unique saberstaff sequences, Trakata elements, and an array of dual-phase techniques. It's a personal hybrid form that nobody in the mythos has replicated.

His only two challengers as the supreme Form VI master are both still trapped within the boundaries of typical Niman usage.

Neither Darth Maul or Darth Krayt adapted the form to become an 'unstoppable' style, they only utilised elements and mixed those with excellent but entirely traditional masteries of saberstaff and Jar'kai duelling respectively.

Exar Kun was considered unparalelled in his time as a lightsaber master, said time being the Tales of the Jedi era, an era in which more Jedi Weapon Masters lived than any other.

His feats against Vodo and Ulic are higher than anything Revan can overcome. Ulic Qel-Droma has on three occasions been described as the archetypal Luke Skywalker hero, a prodigy and an excellent swordsman, hailed and praised repeatedly for his skills with the blade.

Ulic's ability to contend with Sylvar is an utterly under-appreciated feat.

Ulic hadn't dueled in 13 years, was physically out of his prime and had lost all connection to the Force. Meaning he was extremely rusty and, as described in Force and Destiny, at a serious disadvantage after having relied so heavily on his immense Force prowess, as one of the most powerful Sith Lords in galactic history.

Even despite this he managed to successfully fight a former Jedi Knight in Sylvar, whom has moved faster than Nomi Sunrider could even see, one-shotted Massassi Warriors, and slaughtered an entire Killik Nest single-handedly without any injury.

Importantly, Sylvar was even more bloodlusted and enraged than she had been when she opened up a clinic in that Killik Nest.

Last but not least, do not forget that Ulic is a Form V: Djem-So master, a form designed for high aggression and counter-attacking. Despite that he fought a purely defensive duel against Sylvar, putting him in an even more disadvantageous position.

So without a doubt in Ulic Qel-Droma we have a natural born prodigy of a master duellist, whom has been compared to Luke Skywalker as an excellent swordsman.

Yet Exar Kun, without his saberstaff and his unique deadly style; perfectly stalemated Ulic Qel-Droma in a combat that would have lasted hours until they both died.

Now considering that they are such masters of lightsaber skill so as to fail to make any kind of mistake or leave any kind of opening for hours, then they are both clearly above the likes of Malak, Revan's main claim to lightsaber fame.

That isn't even in Kun's prime as a duellist either, so yeah Exar Kun is on a completely different level to Revan.

Now Anthony, if you insist on these baseless claims of Revan's 'superiority' in 'virtually everything' then that is your choice; I can only hope you will see how futile it is to make such definitive claims when infact solid arguments can be made for either.

And the only proper response:

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://media.giphy.com/media/l41m6U61XBBLnRhNS/giphy.gif

Syndicate
Tbh Temp I think you haven't been watching power levels. Ant's has gown and AP's has waned. It's like watching Legend vs Neph.

SIDIOUS 66
I was replying to Tempest's post about AP, but commented SKILLZ. Lol

SIDIOUS 66
Ant be hating.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Syndicate
Tbh Temp I think you haven't been watching power levels. Ant's has gown and AP's has waned. It's like watching Legend vs Neph.

Precisely. Neph's a great guy, but he and Legend would be a close match.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Ant's has gown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY

I've made ComicVine my ***** in record time, Gideon.

Let's see you do the same.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I was replying to Tempest's post about AP, but commented SKILLZ. Lol

I already knew you were drawn to me. smile

The_Tempest
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY

I've made ComicVine my ***** in record time, Gideon.

Let's see you do the same.

That's not what I hear. I like CV, but I'm not willing to dedicate that kinda time to things. Especially since Sheevism is still doing quite well there. 👍

Syndicate
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Precisely. Neph's a great guy, but he and Legend would be a close match.

Really? Tbh I think Neph is substantially above.

Alright then probably more like ILS vs ShootingNova ( lower tier of course ).

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m1EFMoRFvY

I've made ComicVine my ***** in record time, Gideon.

Let's see you do the same.

Tbh Ant you've made CV your ***** in regards to Revan and KOTOR but not really in any of the other territories. It's like conquering Australia in Risk early on and then claiming you already won.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
That's not what I hear.
Your hearing must have got worse as you aged, old man.

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I already knew you were drawn to me. smile


It's your sig.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It'll be changing to something from Marvel soon, sorry. smile

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Tbh Ant you've made CV your ***** in regards to Revan and KOTOR but not really in any of the other territories. It's like conquering Australia in Risk early on and then claiming you already won.
That's the only area I care about, to me honest.

Good enough for me to be the sole powerhouse of SWTOR. thumb up

Once my Darth Caedus respect thread is done, I'll have that area claimed too.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by The_Tempest
AP seems to summon sufficient energy to defend Kun. Her wankery against Ant's would fascinate me.
It's a valiant effort, but in the end, nowhere near as airtight as it used to be. It was much more entertaining when she could pretend to be someone else, even if we all knew.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Syndicate
Really? Tbh I think Neph is substantially above.

Alright then probably more like ILS vs ShootingNova ( lower tier of course ).

Neph is unquestionably the better writer, but his arguments of late have been no better or worse than Legend's. There's a reason you see consensus between them.

Ant's honed his craft and has done extremely well. AP is pretty sharp too. It would be a good match, I suspect.

Aurbere
Originally posted by Syndicate
Tbh Ant you've made CV your ***** in regards to Revan and KOTOR but not really in any of the other territories. It's like conquering Australia in Risk early on and then claiming you already won.

Yeah but you really already have won. You can conquer the rest of the world with your army of killer Koalas. I mean, look at these guys. Ferocious.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's the only area I care about, to me honest.

Good enough for me to be the sole powerhouse of SWTOR. thumb up

Once my Darth Caedus respect thread is done, I'll have that area claimed too.

Being the sole SWTOR powerhouse is like taking gold at the Special Olympics, my son. It's a motley collection of extraordinary retards.

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
That's the only area I care about, to me honest.

Good enough for me to be the sole powerhouse of SWTOR. thumb up

Once my Darth Caedus respect thread is done, I'll have that area claimed too.

Making a respect thread doesn't make you an authority on an era. xD

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
It'll be changing to something from Marvel soon, sorry. smile


OMG, no it won't.... roll eyes (sarcastic)

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Making a respect thread doesn't make you an authority on an era. xD
I've already seen the shift. You'll kneel too when you see the scope of the thread.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Aurbere
Yeah but you really already have won. You can conquer the rest of the world with your army of killer Koalas. I mean, look at these guys. Ferocious. so adorable

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by |King Joker|
so adorable
Hello, what have we here?

Syndicate
Originally posted by Aurbere
Yeah but you really already have won. You can conquer the rest of the world with your army of killer Koalas. I mean, look at these guys. Ferocious.

Your koala's remind me of you and xtasy. D:

@Bart

Defend me Barty. ;(

Aurbere
Originally posted by |King Joker|
so adorable

They're tied for second most adorable thing in the world with the sea turtle. big grin

JKBart
Originally posted by Aurbere
Yeah but you really already have won. You can conquer the rest of the world with your army of killer Koalas. I mean, look at these guys. Ferocious.

why are u implying he has affiliations with faggotish koala-centipede

this forum is nationalist-extremist board i am sure there are no fagguts around here, only nazis

Syndicate
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I've already seen the shift. You'll kneel too when you see the scope of the thread.

Pshhh. I don't even rate Caedus that highly.

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by Aurbere
They're tied for second most adorable thing in the world with the sea turtle. big grin
I'd put Gideon's efforts to put Palpatine above Valkorion as #1.

Aurbere
Originally posted by Syndicate
Your koala's remind me of you and xtasy. D:

Fated likes the Koalas too. smile

I should show that to him though. And cuddle. Thanks for the train of thought! big grin

Syndicate
You tell him Barty!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DNdkcIMBtaQ/maxresdefault.jpg

Aurbere
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd put Gideon's efforts to put Palpatine above Valkorion as #1.

LOL XD

That's not really what I was thinking, but different... strokes, you know?

JKBart
Originally posted by Aurbere
Fated likes the Koalas too. smile

I should show that to him though. And cuddle. Thanks for the train of thought! big grin

stop that these forums are now 100% heteronazi

repeat after me
geil gidler

Aurbere
Originally posted by JKBart
why are u implying he has affiliations with faggotish koala-centipede

this forum is nationalist-extremist board i am sure there are no fagguts around here, only nazis

Wat?

Syndicate
Originally posted by Aurbere
Fated likes the Koalas too. smile

I should show that to him though. And cuddle. Thanks for the train of thought! big grin

https://media4.giphy.com/media/58XuGk8inAnra/200_s.gif

JKBart
THIS FORUM IS NOW 100% HETERO NAZI COMMUNITY

The_Tempest
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd put Gideon's efforts to put Palpatine above Valkorion as #1.

Yikes. Maybe Legend could give you shit talking tips? erm

SIDIOUS 66
Originally posted by Syndicate
Making a respect thread doesn't make you an authority on an era. xD


When it's the largest Revan respect thread EVER!!! yes it does.

|King Joker|
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Hello, what have we here? https://45.media.tumblr.com/48da6f5a7cbdad6a5a0f0a8ccc203402/tumblr_n4n39akbuL1req0yeo1_500.gif

Originally posted by Aurbere
They're tied for second most adorable thing in the world with the sea turtle. big grin http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/baby-otter-floating-monterey-bay-670.jpg

DarthAnt66
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yikes. Maybe Legend could give you shit talking tips? erm
I'm just teasing, grandpa.

The_Tempest
I have fond memories of that thread. It's where I learned Revan could TK an entire lightsaber.

Syndicate
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Yikes. Maybe Legend could give you shit talking tips? erm

Don't lie to yourself Temp. That was a pretty good burn. Just like the Flammenwerfer who burned Jewish traitors. Right an Bart?

Aurbere
Originally posted by |King Joker|

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/baby-otter-floating-monterey-bay-670.jpg

Argh! So adorable! I can't even!

But look! That's so cute!

The_Tempest
Dude otters are the shit.

JKBart
hail the new hetero forums

Syndicate
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I have fond memories of that thread. It's where I learned Revan could TK an entire lightsaber.

Damn. The shots that are being fired are even more fuhrerious then the ones in the French German trench lines.

Aurbere
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dude otters are the shit.

I remember I was at the zoo a few years ago and the otters were floating side-by-side. So weird yet so adorable.

Syndicate
HEIL!!!

JKBart
HEIL

Syndicate
Da otter looks like a peepee! Don't look an bart!

JKBart
do u know the difference between corpse of an dead otter and members of a large-nose nation with a knack for money?

both are the same on my watch

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Aurbere
Argh! So adorable! I can't even!

But look! That's so cute! OMGGGG so cute I love animals

http://www.thewolfcrossing.org/communities/1/004/007/006/521/images/4525953595.jpg

Syndicate
You know why their mom's not in the picture?

Well, do you?

Trigger warning.














SHE'S AN DEAD!!!

http://www.nothingisreal.com/photos/St._Petersburg_2008-09/St._Petersburg_Zoo/img_0066.jpg

Aurbere
Originally posted by |King Joker|
OMGGGG so cute I love animals

http://www.thewolfcrossing.org/communities/1/004/007/006/521/images/4525953595.jpg

OMGOMGOMGOMG SO CUTE!

Fated and I both love cute bunnies* so when he's feeling down I post bunnies and it makes him feel a little better. Here's one!

*Spontaneously thought of a new nickname for him!

Emperordmb
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I have fond memories of that thread. It's where I learned Revan could TK an entire lightsaber.
On a dark side nexus! Don't forget that part of the feat description it's very important tbh.

NewGuy01
Originally posted by Syndicate
Making a respect thread doesn't make you an authority on an era. xD

Well, Revan is the only thing from that era that matters. Not that the sane would consider Ant's ideas about Revan anyway.

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by Aurbere
OMGOMGOMGOMG SO CUTE!

Fated and I both love cute bunnies* so when he's feeling down I post bunnies and it makes him feel a little better. Here's one!

*Spontaneously thought of a new nickname for him!
Repost in Battle Bar, you ****ing heathen.

Syndicate
SHE'S AN DEAD!!!

http://www.nothingisreal.com/photos/St._Petersburg_2008-09/St._Petersburg_Zoo/img_0066.jpg

Dere orphans!

Aurbere
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Repost in Battle Bar, you ****ing heathen.

Reposted smile

Sinious
stop it with your gayism

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Aurbere
OMGOMGOMGOMG SO CUTE!

Fated and I both love cute bunnies* so when he's feeling down I post bunnies and it makes him feel a little better. Here's one!

*Spontaneously thought of a new nickname for him! BUNNIES ARE THE CUTEST THINGS EVER

THAT ONE HAS A ****ING BACKPACK IM DEAD

https://40.media.tumblr.com/f84b230a660a926c38412dd73bd60691/tumblr_mh8p75ONMP1s4v099o1_500.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/3b/e2/f8/3be2f8f2c92a3257206fc5ea36f39e78.jpg

Syndicate
Sinious. I did not know you were an ally. :3

JKBart
these forums truly need a new fuhrer to clean it up from gayfuggotry

Aurbere
Originally posted by |King Joker|
BUNNIES ARE THE CUTEST THINGS EVER

THAT ONE HAS A ****ING BACKPACK IM DEAD

https://40.media.tumblr.com/f84b230a660a926c38412dd73bd60691/tumblr_mh8p75ONMP1s4v099o1_500.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/3b/e2/f8/3be2f8f2c92a3257206fc5ea36f39e78.jpg

OMG PENGUINS AND SEALS! AWWW love

But wait! Here! Bunnies are so cute! big grin

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by JKBart
these forums truly need a new fuhrer to clean it up from gayfuggotry
I hope you aren't volunteering yourself.

Emperordmb
Originally posted by Sinious
stop it with your gayism
thumb up gayism must be prevented tbh

Man have differentiated himself from beast for this reason. If we legalizes homosexuality, we must also legalize beastiality, polygamy, and pedophilia.

JKBart
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I hope you aren't volunteering yourself.

u can take it from me if u are sure u won't hold back from utilizing Zyklon B to the maximum

|King Joker|
I had a bunny once

His name was Cookie

He died in like a year, I blame the people who sold me it

Sinious
Originally posted by Syndicate
Sinious. I did not know you were an ally. :3 Only Bart knew my true alignment smile

Syndicate
EMP U 2?! I so Proud. :')

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Emperordmb
thumb up gayism must be prevented tbh

Man have differentiated himself from beast for this reason. If we legalizes homosexuality, we must also legalize beastiality, polygamy, and pedophilia. LMFAO

Aurbere
Originally posted by |King Joker|
I had a bunny once

His name was Cookie

He died in like a year, I blame the people who sold me it

I'm sorry for your loss. Poor Cookie. sad

Syndicate
An Joker. smile

For you. smile

https://lookwhatthecatdraggedin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/p1010305.jpg

FreshestSlice
Originally posted by JKBart
u can take it from me if u are sure u won't hold back from utilizing Zyklon B to the maximum
You may rule here, but only in MY name. Your first task is to kill teh geys here.

JKBart
time to get my reserves of Zyklon B from the basement

|King Joker|
The gays here are indestructible.

JKBart
Jews too thought Hitler will never go as far as to exterminate all of them just because

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Aurbere
I'm sorry for your loss. Poor Cookie. sad yeah

Thanks Aurb

Emperordmb
Syn, I'm fine with the content of the pictures you're posting, but could you please stop posting ****ing massive posters? They're ****ing screwing up the formatting of the page so I have to actually scroll to the side to read people's arguments tbh.

|King Joker|
Imo dmb should die, since he's Indian

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This thread turned faggish a little to quick for my tastes.

Aurbere
Keeping this in reserve for my love bunny.

Syndicate
Emp. Be careful. It looks like u r being infected by an gey tendencies. Overdramatiscism and dangerous levels of gey.

Sinious
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
This thread turned faggish a little to quick for my tastes. thumb up

Syndicate
An Bart. Should we declare exterminatus in this site of geyness?

http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/2011-03-19_00023.jpg

|King Joker|
That's ironic Sinny given that you've sucked my cock over a dozen times smile

Syndicate
I thought it was viener shnitzel! I svear Bart!

Sinious
Even you can't believe that statement Joker smile

|King Joker|
Originally posted by Sinious
Even you can't believe that statement Joker smile too bad I have video of you slobbin on my knob smile smile smile

JKBart
videos provided by inferior race aren't even worth to be looked upon tho

Sinious
pretty much...

Jmanghan
Originally posted by |King Joker|
BUNNIES ARE THE CUTEST THINGS EVER

THAT ONE HAS A ****ING BACKPACK IM DEAD

https://40.media.tumblr.com/f84b230a660a926c38412dd73bd60691/tumblr_mh8p75ONMP1s4v099o1_500.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/3b/e2/f8/3be2f8f2c92a3257206fc5ea36f39e78.jpg That seal is ****ing adorable.

The Ellimist
Just noticed this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
His triumph over Skywalker came, at large part, due to the aid of the also powerful Kyp Durran


As AP points out, Exar Kun can only access "some" of his powers through vessels like Kyp, and Kyp himself considers his powers to be feeble next to Kun's. Plus it's stated that lifting the Sun Crusher had tired Exar out, and that his spirit form is weaker than his living flesh one. If we combine all of these handicaps together, we can extrapolate that living Exar would be pretty f*cking powerful.



This is true, although I'm not aware of any evidence that Revan had trained against tendrils either.



Full power Exar Kun > Spirit Exar, and it's heavily implied that full power Exar > Spirit Kun + Kyp > JA Luke. You could argue that Luke was sort of blindsided by Exar from behind and hadn't faced anything of the sort before, but even taking this into account, Exar was still able to penetrate the defenses of a guy who defeated Palpatine.

In contrast, what has Revan done to compare? Thrown around a strike team consisting of three or so decent Force users and a bunch of fodder?



How so?

Regardless, my point wasn't to leverage the advantages of Kun's style, but rather his feat of inventing a new one in what was at the time an unfamiliar weapon. I don't think Revan has done anything to match that level of technical skill.



Beating large numbers of fodder opponents is a good endurance feat but doesn't tell us much about Revan's abilities, beyond that he can take out multiple unnamed sith at a time (Hope Satele can do this). It's not like those hundreds are literally surrounding him.

BTW he had help.



They really aren't. Malak is trash being amped to an unknown extent, and the strike team ultimately beats Revan without suffering any casualties while receiving an unquantified amount of aid from Revan's light side half.

Kun, meanwhile, has defeated a post-DE Luke while weakened and fatigued. That's a tougher foe than anything Revan's gone up against.

DarthAnt66

DarthAnt66
It shows that Revan is a dominating combatant with consistent skills and great defenses. Jedi during the Clone Wars required armies of clone troopers to fight battle droids - Revan would have conquered worlds alone, as Darth Malgus states before the assault on the Foundry. And in particular, I mainly reference this because he did this gauntlet right before fighting Darth Malak. Also, the aid of two companions won't have any large influence on Revan fighting scores of Sith. And he had no help against the two terentatek and the academy headmasters.


What? Darth Malak's been labeled as among the most powerful Sith Lords in history, and unlike the quotes with Kit Fisto and such referring to their dueling skills, is listed directly alongside Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, etc. He was capable of dominating Bastila Shan in a gesture, and then later beat her again in under twenty seconds. Note that the only source discussing her power puts her alongside Dooku and Obi-Wan Kenobi. While I personally don't agree with the source, the massive praise is clearly there. He was also able to conceal mass ripples in the Force from being felt, and then instead simply his thoughts and moving presence caused disturbances in the Force that could be felt from sectors away. His battlefield accomplishments were said to have been just as important to the Mandalorian defeat as Revan's tactics, and when Cay Qel-Droma had a vision of the future, he remarked after seeing Darth Malak that "Sith so powerful... I... I'm scared."

And then, let's bring in the amp. He was said to have wielded "extraordinary dark side Force powers" and was "nearly unstoppable." We see him being capable of ragdolling Jedi, instantly killing them with Force Lightning, and utilizing Force Drain in the midst of combat. With the power of the Star Forge at his disposal, he's an absolute powerhouse. And then given Revan just fought through an army of Sith war droids, and then an army of Sith, and then Bastila Shan, and then the Star Forge's infinite army, he's certainly not in best shape. Also, Bastila Shan, through his bond, is calling strength from him into herself, given she needs it to resist the taint of the dark side present on the Star Forge so she can use Battle Meditation effectively. This feat is certainly beyond Exar Kun stalemating Ulic Qel-Droma or overcoming Vodo-Siosk Baas after throwing out all his tricks and powers.


Eight soldiers were killed during the battle, actually. And again, the lack of more causalities is due to Spirit Revan, who, due to his actions, allowed the protagonists to free them all from Revan's telekinetic hold. The game specifically made note that all the characters were being "destroyed" by Revan and, reversely, that Revan was "destroying all." And because of such, the extent and impact of his aid is clear and great.


Even ignoring the fact that Desann isn't even more powerful than "most Jedi Masters," and yet was still able to throw "post-DE Luke" onto the ground, and then leave him for dead after collapsing a massive structure on him, the circumstances behind Luke Skywalker's defeat must be considered. And when they are, it's not more impressive than what Revan brings to the table.

The Ellimist
I'll respond when I'm not on my phone, but I'm assuming you don't take Kreia's "the ancient sith make us look like toys" claim seriously.

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Nah, the claim was confirmed to be factual by Avellone.

DarthAnt66
She's referring to the era of Tulak Hord, which is far, far removed from Exar Kun.

Chris Avellone has stated that Revan is up with the guys she's referring to anyway.

The Ellimist
So the triumvirate is trash next to Revan? Good to know.

Edit: before Ant edited in Tulak, but I'm pretty sure Exar has a GOAT accolade that would put him above previous sith. Did Hord come before Kun? Idk these eras

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Yeah. Except for Nihilus, who Traya states may very well rival the ancients.

The Ellimist
Oh, well I guess it doesn't mean much except that Traya and Sion are trash, which we already knew lol

XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
thumb up

The Ellimist
I'm rushing this, so perhaps it won't be the most rhetorically pleasing reply.



Also this:


Exar Kun himself possessed a great many other dark powers that he was unable to harness without the energy he needed to fuel his disembodied will. Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.
- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

.ie, Kun channeling Kyp can only replicate some of the powers that he had when he was living.



There's usually a limit to how much esoteric powers can overcome a sufficient gap in overall Force ability. Bane is able to overcome Zannah's mental sorcery through sheer force of will, and survives for a really long time against her tendrils, almost long enough to overcome her in melee - he would've won if the starting conditions have been somewhat different. Granted, Bane did vaguely mention that he had "prepared" against Zannah's sorcery...except that when push came to shove, he just resorted to sheer willpower.

So at the very best, we can say that spirit Kun is weaker than JA Luke by not much more than Zannah is weaker than Bane, if he's even weaker at all. And while the jump from spirit -> flesh isn't exactly quantifiable, it can reasonably be taken as somewhat significant, enough to bridge that gap. If we want to get really pedantic with the quote, "some of his powers" seems to imply <50%.



And yet Darth Bane never learned how to defend against tendrils from his holocron, kek.

Teleportation is good and I admit that it's a bit of a wildcard, although I don't think Revan can just spam it - otherwise I don't see how Vitiate's Voice could have lost to the Hero even if he were weakened. It's likely a relatively draining and slow-to-recharge move.

Regardless, I think that Kun's showing against Luke gives us a hint to his overall strength in the Force independent of his sorcery. As I noted before, it's not like you can overpower someone who's significantly stronger than you just because you have sorcery - spirit Exar has to lie within shooting distance of JA Luke.

JA Luke, meanwhile, has been stated to "grow stronger with every mission", so he should be more powerful than the Luke who was able to stand against Palpatine.



Kun has done similar things to the Malassani or whatever they're called.




It's pretty heavily implied that the strike team collectively would not have stood a chance against Vitiate, who is still a Sith at this time and ergo is canonically weaker than Palpatine. So I take Exar beating JA Luke to be a more impressive feat. Granted, Revan dominates the team more blatantly than Exar beats Luke, but the team is weaker than Luke by quite a margin, given that they together would have gotten stomped by someone weaker than even TPM Sidious.

Powerscaling FTW.



Lol, Agen Kolar is also an elite duelist, and one of the greatest in history. That alone doesn't tell us much except that he greater than any duelist of the KOTR age, like...like...like...Darth Malak? And wasn't Malak stated to actually be technically superior to Revan?

Again, it's a matter of predicting Revan's technical ability relative to Kun's. He's really good, cool. That applies to lots of people. But Kun's innovation with respect to his saberstaff is a more exclusionary feat/showing that just being considered really good, which means that his technical skill probably surpasses Revan's, and so if their Force augmentation is similar, Kun would win in a duel.

I'm basing this off of analysis of Revan's abilities that don't really have any upper limits to work off - we're just looking at what he's been given so far, and assuming that he doesn't have all that much more. It's a rough guestimate game, but that's always the case with comparing duelists from different eras.



Trakata isn't likely to be something that Kun is likely to have not heard of (quite frankly it's a pretty obvious tactic), battle precognition sounds like regular precognition lol, and the point here is that Kun's saber innovation feat signals a more exclusive percentile in saber ability relative to the mythos than just being the best of an age with no good duelists and being called an expert or whatever. It's not about his form directly helping him.

The Ellimist
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It shows that Revan is a dominating combatant with consistent skills and great defenses. Jedi during the Clone Wars required armies of clone troopers to fight battle droids - Revan would have conquered worlds alone, as Darth Malgus states before the assault on the Foundry. And in particular, I mainly reference this because he did this gauntlet right before fighting Darth Malak. Also, the aid of two companions won't have any large influence on Revan fighting scores of Sith. And he had no help against the two terentatek and the academy headmasters.


It's still mainly a stamina feat. Given Revan's ability to resist Vitiate and the Dread Masters for 300 years, he seems to have that in the bag. Ironically enough, his acknowledged stamina actually mitigates how impressive his fighting Malak right after is, because it means that he probably wasn't substantially weakened from the fighting.

Again, he's just doing what Satele does to those sith in Hope repetitively for a long period of time.

lol, the Jedi are facing a droid army said to number in the quintillions, it's not the same as fighting a few hundred sith.



The B-team is actually referenced along with Mace Windu, lol.



Funny, Dooku and Obi Wan aren't very close in power, so the two other data points of this alleged quote would potentially put Bastila below Obi Wan by the same extent that Obi Wan is below Dooku, or more.

Also Luke has put Obi Wan and Yoda in the same sentence with respect to power; these types of general associations aren't necessarily that precise.



Savage does this too.



So?



Who is Cay Qel-Droma, and why should I care about his opinion any more than trainee Bane thinking Kas'im is teh greatest?

But if you wanna go into this kind of hype, we can look to Luke Skywalker stating that "all Jedi everywhere will die" if Ragnos comes back, and Exar Kun being stated by KJA to be stronger than Ragnos. GG.



Sure, if it weren't for Exar being called the greatest sith to his time and defeating Luke, I wouldn't put him on Revan's level. But those feats exist, and while you might think that Malak is powerful, it obviously doesn't compare. Exar was also tired when he fought Luke, and he wasn't even in a living body.



See above for redundancy.



The description of Luke's confrontation with Exar makes it clear that he tried every trick in his book to defend himself, and they all failed. It doesn't imply that this is one of his jobbing-like-an-idiot feats of post-DE scared of the dark side Luke.

That being said, I'll acknowledge that JA Luke is weirdly inconsistent and it does make me wonder if this is just one of his customary sh*tty showings. I don't think that we can just throw this excuse out for every time he loses at something without breaking the fourth wall and appealing to PIS; my in-universe explanation is that he's started holding back after the events of DE, but this fight makes it clear that he goes all-out defensively at least.

So we have to weigh the handicaps Luke had, such as not really being able to strike back at spirit Exar, being blindsided and not having seen the tendrils, with Kun's handicaps, like being substantially weaker than his mortal form and exhausted from lifting the Sun Crusher (and also the fact that he won fairly easily). It's not like I can reduce this mathematically; I can just guess that they either resolve to a wash, or even if they slightly favor Exar, just means that he's comparable to or slightly below JA Luke, who is almost certainly far beyond Vader at this point.

If Luke can contend with Palpatine and that strike team can't do shit against Vitiate, I'm taking beating Luke as more impressive.

DarthAnt66

DarthAnt66
There's not quintillions of battledroids on every battlefield. erm In The Clone Wars TV show, there's like a couple hundred fighting the Jedi at most per world.



He's not really. After fighting Bastila Shan, he walked into an open room with the Star Forge's "infinite army" of battle droids being created and attacking him. Also, Satele Shan fighting four Sith and a droid is not the same as Revan fighting hundreds of them, obviously. The Star Forge structure, based on how its formatted in the game, allow them to attack Revan en masse from different angles (the front, the back, and sometimes the sides). On Korriban, the structure of the academy allows them, in many areas, to attack Revan from all four sides. The Dark Jedi of this era are also powerful enough to wield Force Lightning, sometimes Force Drain, and are stated to be "experts in lightsaber and Force-related combat," "highly skilled duelists", and "masters on the battlefield." It's vastly more impressive than what Satele Shan did and anything Exar Kun has shown us on the battlefield.


You don't think Revan fighting armies and Bastila Shan wouldn't have had negative impacts on him? What? Also, that being said, endurance, like speed and strength, are directly augmented by one's command of the Force. Based on his endurance, which you consider unyielding, Revan should also have the speed and strength advantage over Exar Kun in a lightsaber duel as well, but that was obvious.


Or put her in the middle. Or put her "the same extent that Obi-Wan is below Dooku" above Dooku.

You're just throwing out numbers.

Just take the quote for what it means: Bastila Shan is very powerful and comparable to beings that Exar Kun isn't capable of one-shotting.

That is, unlike Darth Malak, according to the quote. wink


When? erm


If Malak's abilities are even remotely as successful and masterful as Revan's military strategies, as the quote says, that's extremely impressive praise in regard to his abilities and makes clear he's not "trash," like you stated. He's extremely powerful and skilled with a treasure of Sith abilities at his dispoal. Revan defeating him, primarily due to just his lightsaber, on the Star Forge, is better than anything Exar Kun can bring to the table for combat.


He was the Jedi Order's greatest champion between the time of Exar Kun's death and Revan's rise to power. He led the charge during the Great Hunt and killed many terentatek. Anyway, no, it's different. Cay Qel-Droma had a vision of Darth Malak, his power, and what he would do. Luke Skywalker didn't know next-to-anything about Marka Ragnos besides from what is written about him in history books and legends, to my knowledge. One's more legitimate.

I think all the other points you made below is covered somewhere above. If not, simply quote it again.

tl;dr: Revan's lightsaber abilities is a perfect counter for Exar Kun, he's shown greater feats with them, and is faster, stronger, and has greater endurance.

In regards to the Force, Revan can handle what Exar Kun has to offer, but his superior showings of telekinesis and telepathy will definitely tip the tide in his favor.

Revan wins 9.9/10.

NewGuy01
Lol Cay was Ulic's brother that died before Exar.

DarthAnt66
*Duron Qel-Droma. I mixed them up, my bad. erm

NewGuy01
He was a feeb, too. Could only beat Terentateks with his team by weakening them with a special mind trick.

DarthAnt66
(Edit @ 5:40 PM)

He was said to be among the Jedi Order's greatest terentatek hunter, shattered all the glass and other items in a room with telekinesis, is a master of beast control, and had Droma blood. erm He's impressive enough to make himself being petrified of Darth Malak impressive, especially considering he's ware of the threat Exar Kun posed yet still shivered at the thought a Sith could be as powerful as Darth Malak.

NewGuy01
Among the greatest largely because of his special mind trick, as I recall.

DarthAnt66
Not really. He seems to be the greatest Force sensitive of the three, which shouldn't be that surprising. In combat he really injured that one terentatek with his lightsaber too.

Nai
You people are boring.

Exar Kun wins.

The End.

The Ellimist
no expression Dude, give it up already. Palpatine's status as the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, frequently given in the context of martial ability, is probably the second most repeated accolade in the entire mythos after Anakin's potential to surpass him. I can get putting Exar over Revan; that's what I'm doing right now; but Palpatine? Your people lost, buddy.


(Edit: to go into more detail, since Palpatine supremacy in power is established canon, you could try to push for Kun's superiority as a duelist or sorcerer. You'd certainly fail in the former, given that Palpatine's status as the first or second best in the Jedi's golden age of dueling >>> developing your own style (Windu did that too) and standing out in a far more puny era, and given that Palpatine can replicate literally everything Exar ever did, except without needing any prep or rituals. And even if we grant Kun benefits for the sake of discussion, Palpatine's lead in raw power is so massive from the RotS > TPM > TOR Vitiate > Novel Vitiate > post-Nathema Vitiate > Kun that it won't really matter. He's better.)

(Edit: btw, Exar needs the nexus of Yavin to maintain his identity after physical death, while Palpatine does it from sheer willpower. And only one of them is a walking dark side nexus. GG)

Beniboybling
But but but he basically one shotted JA Luke all by himself which even DE Palpatine couldn't do. smile

Nai
Originally posted by The Ellimist
no expression Dude, give it up already. Palpatine's status as the most powerful Sith Lord of all time, frequently given in the context of martial ability, is probably the second most repeated accolade in the entire mythos after Anakin's potential to surpass him. I can get putting Exar over Revan; that's what I'm doing right now; but Palpatine? Your people lost, buddy.


*Looks at thread title*

I thought it would be fairly obvious, that I just didn't want to repost all that for this specific thread here. Obviously, I did overestimate the intellect of some individuals posting here.

And Sidious status, while being dubious at best, is no basis to judge his combat ability, where Kun beats him in applications of the Force and lightsaber skill every given time, when you take the source-material into consideration, instead of blindly following single quotes without analysing them.



I wonder where the idea of a "Golden Age of Duelling" for the PT comes from, when it's explicitly mentioned, that the only Jedi caring about "duelling" and using the form most suited for it, is Dooku.

I, of course, know the answer. The notion is extrapolated from the TPM commentary where Lucas, while Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight off droids, refers to the PT as the "Golden Age of the Jedi". This has been used to establish the time as the strongest point in terms of lightsaber combat. Which is pretty laughable. Not only because we know that Lucas doesn't give a damn about the EU (via his own statements regarding the issue), but also because this doesn't make sense, given that they didn't have much need to hone their lightsaber skills in comparsion to people in other eras.

And one must love the hilarious speculation that Sidious could replicate anything Kun did, which pretty much lacks any basis. Much like the notion that Sidious is more powerful than Vitiate.



Last time I checked, Palpatine needed the aid of several Sith spirits to make it back from the void to the living plane and then was in need to possess Jeng Droga, in order to survive. And none of them is a walking dark side nexus, which is just another of Gideon's large amount of missconceptions regarding his favourite character.

The Ellimist
I do find it amusing that 3/4s of your pseudo-respect thread obsesses over profound descriptions of Kun having "enormous power", and the vague aphorisms of characters who encounter him, and you think this somehow proves his superiority over Palpatine. However, explicit statements that Palpatine is the most powerful in history get dismissed as more "dubious" than oh-so-quantifiable descriptions of Kun going through "immense transformations" or whatever. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Nonetheless, though you provide an impressive amount of detail about Exar, you don't actually do any comparative analysis between him and Palpatine to explain why BS quotes like "one of the greatest ever" that have been also labeled on Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto mean anything.

Originally posted by Nai
And Sidious status, while being dubious at best,

The "dubious" criticism could work if we're talking about some one-liner publisher's statement on the back cover of an obscure novel. Instead, we are looking at potentially a dozen independent sources, including

Third person sourcebook statements pertaining both to combat (defeating Yoda) and mastery of the dark side ("succeeded where all others had failed in taming the dark side", "greatest master of evil to ever use sith power"wink
In-universe opinions of Darth Vader and ancient sith spirits
George Lucas's own opinion
An official interview question


At some point, where there's smoke, there's a fire, and you start looking like you're grasping at straws to nitpick semantics distinctions in every single quote.

Of course, being capable of unbalancing the Force itself and unleashing Force storms sort of makes this pretty clear already.





Mastery of the Force is probably the single most important factor to combat ability, and Sidious's supremacy in the former is stated specifically in the context of Yoda not being able to defeat him.



Seeing as how Sidious has been stated to be a master of every style and weapon, I somehow doubt that Exar possesses any advantage over him in technical ability. At the very best case scenario it is a wash - and so we defer to Sidious's superior mastery of the Force. There's only so much technical skill can do to compensate for such a disadvantage in raw power - see Cin Drallig vs. Vader.

Asa for "applications of the Force", since Palpatine's standard lightning can light up planetary surfaces, you're presumably talking about Kun's sorcery. I'd love for you to show us where in any of his sorcery he produces power in excess of what Palpatine can create from his own power alone.



That doesn't contradict the phrase at all. Kingdoms in the middle ages probably cared a lot more about war than we do, it doesn't make them better at it.

The PT Jedi Order's dueling prowess is advanced in spite of their relative peacetime, which should be apparent enough from the unusually high density of powerful Force users in this era. Show me any other era in galactic history where a guy corroborated by multiple sources to be the most powerful Jedi and duelist in the history of the Order (Yoda), the most powerful Sith in history (Sidious), the prior most powerful in history (Plagueis), several characters who explicitly rival Sidious in potential (Kyp, Starkiller), and the Chosen One himself (Anakin) all happen to reside at the same time. The films and thereafter events contain the most powerful concentration of non-entity Force users in galactic history.




Under the former EU system, Lucas's word stands as G canon. Sorry.



So what? We don't have as much need to use bows and arrows, yet modern ones are a f*ckton superior to medieval versions. They have training sabers and seem to take some sort of ceremonial importance in dueling, so they get better at it. Contrary to what ancient-wankers think, organizations and societies tend to get better at things over time.



Show me a counterexample?



Neither could do that alone, but Palpatine could retain his essence alone.

BTW, some sith spirits later agreed that Palpatine had become the greatest of them all. thumb up



ROFLAMO! Exar needed to feed off of one of the most potentially powerful Force users of all time (Kyp Durron) + a dark side nexus, and it still wasn't enough.



Eager to meet his captor, Luke learned that the dark side nexus he had sensed was none other than the cloned reincarnation of Emperor Palpatine himself.

^ he is, actually.

The_Tempest
Originally posted by Nai
which is just another of Gideon's large amount of missconceptions regarding his favourite character.

lol

AncientPower
I'd f#cking pay to see Gideon vs Nai, doesn't get more classic than that.

Palpatine is obviously better in everything, but regardless.

AncientPower
Ellimist, Exar Kun is listed alongside Reborn Palpatine as two of the greatest dark side focal points Luke has ever faced by Specters of the Past, so no Exar Kun is a dark side nexus as well, a 'great' one at that.

Nephthys
Originally posted by Nai
I, of course, know the answer. The notion is extrapolated from the TPM commentary where Lucas, while Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight off droids, refers to the PT as the "Golden Age of the Jedi". This has been used to establish the time as the strongest point in terms of lightsaber combat. Which is pretty laughable. Not only because we know that Lucas doesn't give a damn about the EU (via his own statements regarding the issue), but also because this doesn't make sense, given that they didn't have much need to hone their lightsaber skills in comparsion to people in other eras.

It's especially egregious if you actually look at what Lucas said. It's laughable to suggest he was talking about lightsaber skill, the ability of duelists or that his statement is exclusive to the PT given what he actually, literally says. All he mentions is them fighting in large groups. Hardly unique to the PT.

The Ellimist
@AP: "focal point" =/= the Star Wars meaning of nexus though...

@Neph: lol it clearly refers to overall combative ability. Your evasion changes nothing. thumb up

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